[Closed] The last days of Empire?

You think you’re going to get a bountiful, chaste and true democracy? You know why your parliament cost £400 million over budget? – The first footstep to independence. Because it was riddled with corruption, ******* RIDDLED with it – the favours and “payments” were still being called in a decade after the place was finished.

So you're in the 'Scots are genetically incapable of governing themselves' camp?

BaronVonP7
Member
I’ll bet one of my testicles and one of my eyeballs – if/when Scotland gets independent it will be shit. There will be approx 3 million or so versions of the independence. The one you get will NOT be the one YOU imagined. This will be the fault of the English. It will turn out that the TNUMTWNT POV will be bollox. This will manifest on both sides of the border.

You think you’re going to get a bountiful, chaste and true democracy? You know why your parliament cost £400 million over budget? – The first footstep to independence. Because it was riddled with corruption, ******* RIDDLED with it – the favours and “payments” were still being called in a decade after the place was finished.

“But it will be Scottish shit! Better than English shit!”

Perhaps, but least we can get rid of 14 million tory voters in one fell swoop, so happy days, bring it on!

Those countries also self-govern completely, their people closer to the politicians and without interference from an over-bearing, larger and self-interested neighbour. I have visited all but Ireland on that list, and they seem to be rather splendid places to live, work and belong to.

This is what is driving the Independence vote in Wales,which has gone from a mere 7% to currently 32%,long way to go but gaining everyday.

Perhaps, but least we can get rid of 14 million tory voters in one fell swoop

You are planning on throwing out the 700k who voted tory at the last election?

You are planning on throwing out the 700k who voted tory at the last election?

Nah, we need a minority opposition.

“But it will be Scottish shit! Better than English shit!”

If you hadn’t bothered looking very closely I can see why they would look the same, kind of like how a cucumber and a squash look similar.

Why don’t you look a bit closer and come back when you’re a bit more educated and can actually contribute to the thread?

And just like a Brexiteer, you get abusive when you're called out.

Good luck with your trade deals by the way.

All those countries had their independence in completely different contexts and with different histories. Suggesting it’s only about population size is bobbins.

Yes, generally as the result of war to escape occupying neighbours. Is that really the way forward for Scotland?

dissonance
Subscriber
You are planning on throwing out the 700k who voted tory at the last election?

Could mibbe ditch the dumfries and the borders. an idea worth considering. 😆 Will deal with a chunk of those.

What's interesting is that the negative comments seem to revolve around how dare people in Wales, NI, and Scotland be so presumptuous to want the end of the UK.

No one seems to have mentioned that 49% of people in England want it too (according to the survey)

I reckon we should aw just have a big fight about it! 😆

Interesting that some view Scotland as a place to be preserved such that Royalty or the incumbent PM have somewhere nice to come for their holidays, when the 2020 reality is that because Nigel from Rotherham can't get to Marbella he turns up in his builder's van to $hit in the woods, casts his rubbish everywhere and heads back down the M6.

It's not just about oil, Scotland possesses a significant proportion of the UK's natural resources and rather than the benefits be used to give tax cuts to old ladies with blue hair in the Home Counties, they can be used to invest in industries that create jobs and wealth here. A significant proportion of pro-indy supporters are under 25 and unlike previous generations of Scots, should not be forced to head to other countries to pursue careers because a previous Tory government destroyed their job prospects.

There's been a big influx of English emigres, I expect a significant part to the $hitstorm of Brexit, English nationalism and general nastiness shown by anyone who doesn't share their populist point of view. You're welcome to keep your politics of division and hatred in Westminster but for many it doesn't wash, as does the patronising attitude of we know what's best for you.

Norway and Finland only gained independence just over a century ago and didn't have to go to war to achieve it.

You do realise that after independence Scotland won’t be a single party state, don’t you?

Very aware, when none of the promises are lived up to. But it'll still be England's fault as with Brexit and the EU.

So you’re in the ‘Scots are genetically incapable of governing themselves’ camp?

No more so than the UK governing the UK is a shambles at the moment, except the UK is a bigger, much more resilient entity with a small amount of international clout (waning fast). Numpty politicians have less impact although Boris has certainly upped the game when it comes to taking an entire country down.

when the 2020 reality is that because Nigel from Rotherham can’t get to Marbella he turns up in his builder’s van to $hit in the woods

Well that's unpleasant stereo typing, I imagine plenty of Nigels have also been doing the same in the Peaks and Lakes and some people from Glasgow as well. It's not really a national trait, everywhere has scum bags, suggesting this is an English trait as you are rather re-enforces the comments made on here about nasty Scottish Nationalism.

Scotland possesses a significant proportion of the UK’s natural resources

I didn't know midges were a useful natural resource. Care to elaborate, fair bit of timber (but that's not going to support the economy) wind / waves, we have those south of the border as well.

There’s been a big influx of English emigres, I expect a significant part to the $hitstorm of Brexit, English nationalism and general nastiness shown by anyone who doesn’t share their populist point of view.

Bit rich coming from someone who would like to break up the UK, and I believe there are quite a few Scots living south of the border, one of the great things about being a united country, people can choose where they live.

No one seems to have mentioned that 49% of people in England want it too (according to the survey)

Hardly a reliable survey though, 52% of people thought leaving the EU was a good idea, just because it's popular doesn't make it right.

wind / waves, we have those south of the border as well.

I'd wager Scotland has more wind and more waves for energy generation.

stumpyjon
Hardly a reliable survey though, 52% of people thought leaving the EU was a good idea, just because it’s popular doesn’t make it right.

Even if it's out by 20%, the number surprised me.

It does. But once you've got enough, it doesn't really matter if you have more. No part of the UK would struggle for renewables.

epicyclo
Subscriber

No one seems to have mentioned that 49% of people in England want it too (according to the survey)

Actually 34%- the 49%/51% ignores the don't knows but they make up another third.

The main difference being that the English tend to view it in terms of kicking other people out of "their" country, while the other nations tend to think of it as leaving. Ask english people if they want to leave the UK and set up a new country while Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (and maybe London and Kernow and anyone else that wants to) stay in the good old UK and keep the pound, and you get a bit of a different answer.

(the question in this case was "Should England be an independent country and should Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland be allowed to stand on its own"- which isn't really adequately clear, especially on a subject with so much history)

stumpyjon
But it’ll still be England’s fault as with Brexit and the EU.

Do f up. 😆

The whole point of independence is to take full responsibility.

Northwind

Actually 34%- the 49%/51% ignores the don’t knows but they make up another third.

Don't knows and non-voters are irrelevant.

Norway and Finland only gained independence just over a century ago and didn’t have to go to war to achieve it.

Slovakia. No war. Independent since only 1993.

Regardless of all the bluster. This is a simple question of democracy. If the current polls are sustained over time. The question should be asked again.

Whether independence is right or wrong is irrelevant.

seosamh77
Subscriber

Don’t knows and non-voters are irrelevant.

In a referendum/election, yes. In a post saying "49% of people in england want it too", very relevant, because actually it's 34.

The whole point of independence is to take full responsibility.

Haaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I wouldn't be too pleased with 49% / 34% (insert dodgy Brexit type claim here). These will be the sort of people happy to give Scotland a right good punishment beating for being so uppity, they are not your friends and allies

stumpyjon
Subscriber
The whole point of independence is to take full responsibility.

Haaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Keep laughing. it's bawhums like you driving the current polls. so crack on. 😆

Punishment beatings? Are you 13?

Bring back eat the pudding to these threads, at least he wasn't a complete bawbag.

stumpyjon
These will be the sort of people happy to give Scotland a right good punishment beating for being so uppity, they are not your friends and allies

That's a very British Empire attitude.

Nothing like a good flogging for those natives etc.

You're not related to Colonel Blimp by any chance?

And just like a Brexiteer, you get abusive when you’re called out.

Feel free to point out where I was abusive. Like I have to do with many brexiteers, I was pointing out that you seem to be jumping to very strong conclusions based on very little research. And like many brexiteers, you immediately claimed I was abusing you when I pointed out your lack of research.

I think you have to face facts, Unionists in Scotland have for more in common with brexiteers than independence supporters do. It's not as simple as Unionist = Brexiteer because like all modern political issues it's incredibly nuanced.

You can absolutely be a Unionist and be very pro-EU but as time goes by I think most of the pro-EU unionists are drifting towards independence.