The James Webb space telescope

It'll be pictures of Hitler- as foretold in the documentary Contact

Biden meant to be realising an image tonight about 10pm, 5pm ET.

10:30

Why am I surprised that it's late 🙂

FFS Joe. C'mon.

They are just playing with us now! Mon Joe shift it! Wakey, wakey! 😆

I'm guessing it's going to be interesting if the first images are being unveiled by Biden.

Either amazing. . . or massively underwhelming until you get you’re head around what you’re looking at

Here we go!

Yeah I’m gonna need a better look at that

Edit: this’ll help

https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/goddard/2022/nasa-s-webb-delivers-deepest-infrared-image-of-universe-yet

Jeez, there’s a shit-ton of gravity lensing going on in there! 😳

Oh my!
Loads of pics on Tuesday; I have no concept of what's to come but cannot wait!

that's the hubble ultra deep field, guessing the webb one is just a fraction of this image.

That was the worst tv presentation I've ever seen btw, but i'll let it slide since it's just a preview! 😆

I'm guessing the specs of dust you can see when zoomed in are also galaxies. Canny wait till some boffin explains this properly the morra!

Ah, it's that first image I posted the other day. Here's the 2 of them over laid.

SMACS 0723

[img] [/img]

Here's a cropped in version too, gives a better comparison.

[img] [/img]

Whoa.

love the gravitational lensing in that image.

Apparently half 2 for the other images.

Given how spectacularly massive our own galaxy is, that image takes some time to digest.

I think pictures like this must create a kind of existential fear in some folk to the point where it's just easier to pretend it isn't real. Could anyone really come to terms with the magnitude of what that image conveys and then think to themselves "yup, it's just us in the universe"?

Apparently half 2 for the other images.

Don't forget daylight saving. 10:30am Eastern, It'll be half three here.

ahh, aye was an hour late last night that'll be why.

This is class, takes a minute to load properly btw. zoom out.

http://web.wwtassets.org/specials/2022/jwst-smacs/#

It is utterly incomprehensible. And all those little dots and swirls are galaxies that will be super-massive just like ours – and the black spaces all around them are even bigger.

Made the mistake of opening the image on a bigger screen. Going to need a wee lie down I think . . .

From another perspective, we’re as far distant as all those galaxies!

From a purely technical standpoint, resolution on that is spectacular. So much detail. At first glance it looks like another Hubble deep field with added gravity lens fun. But on closer inspection... holy crap!

Kinda (kinda!) reminds me of when I went to a 20" dobsonian from 12". I spent the first few sessions looking at things I knew and going "whoah! That's a lot more detail!", but then moved into seeing things I simply could not before. I guess that's where JWST will go to. Bit bigger in scale than my wee scopes though 🙂

I agree with nick and Ox - the implications for me come in waves. It's staggering what we are looking at, simply awe inspiring. First thing that comes to mind is surely, sometime, we must be able to figure out a way to jump between these islands. Was it in The Algebraist that they figured out how to use the blackholes at the centre of galaxies to 'jump'?

Anyhoo - looking forward to the next stuff!

The 2 images I overlaid, I read that the hubble version took 2 weeks of exposures, the webb one took 12.5 hours. Which is a nice feature to have!

From another perspective, we’re as far distant as all those galaxies!

This is worth a watch, the scales are litteraly incomprehencible:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0017njc/secrets-of-size-atoms-to-supergalaxies-series-1-2-going-big

Jeez, there’s a shit-ton of gravity lensing going on in there! 😳

I’ve watched various astronomers describing the lensing but that is the best description so far.

Has anyone worked out how to resolve lensed light into an image?

Latest reveal programme now on: https://www.nasa.gov/nasalive

Don't have sound on so no idea what's happening

Don’t have sound on so no idea what’s happening

YouTube has (laggy) subtitles.

mind blown.  The images are so frickin awesome

ffs, the detail is crazy

edit: I may just have messed myself with the level of detail that they can go to 🙁

The James Webb hobby telescope.

All very nice, but not a lot of good.

The James Webb hobby telescope.

All very nice, but not a lot of good.

Expand...

Expand…

I'd rather he didn't bother

Expand…

I’d rather he didn’t bother

Indeed, if you have nothing positive to say and all that. It's just stunning what we can achieve, these images are mind blowing and beyond comprehension. Wow, we are such a small piece in such an enormous universe, and to be able to look back in time like that is astonishing. And I'm out of descriptors! (The live feed is crap though!)

Woah..needs to be on a big screen & click to zoom...

Saved the best till last. Hell fire.

Indeed, if you have nothing positive to say and all that. It’s just stunning what we can achieve, these images are mind blowing and beyond comprehension. Wow, we are such a small piece in such an enormous universe, and to be able to look back in time like that is astonishing. And I’m out of descriptors!

And this is just the beginning - over the years they will turn their attention away from known galaxies and constellations and onto the as yet unseen, unfound things out there.

Saved the best till last. Hell fire.

I struggle to comprehend just how big a typical 'spiral galaxy' is... but to see them floating around that backdrop like specs of dust, almost, I just don't have any words for that...

The Carina Nebula (big screen and zoom again):

Not sure my brain can handle this for much longer

And in case we missed it,

That's a visible area of the sky the size of a grain of sand held at arm's length.

reality really is stranger than fiction.... the giant steam planet the 1.2 size of jupiter (yet half it's mass) wizzing round a sun type star inside the orbit of mercury every 3.5 earth days.

WASP-96 b is one of more than 5,000 confirmed exoplanets in the Milky Way. Located roughly 1,150 light-years away in the southern-sky constellation Phoenix, it represents a type of gas giant that has no direct analog in our solar system. With a mass less than half that of Jupiter and a diameter 1.2 times greater, WASP-96 b is much puffier than any planet orbiting our Sun. And with a temperature greater than 1000°F, it is significantly hotter. WASP-96 b orbits extremely close to its Sun-like star, just one-ninth of the distance between Mercury and the Sun, completing one circuit every 3½ Earth-days.

FFS it can resolve stars 40 million light years away! There is a civilisation out there probably watching the fall of the roman empire live.

how long until we detect the tell tail signs of an industrialized civilization on an exo-planet.

I hope they’ve got beyond spending so much money on things that are unreachable. Perhaps in these other worlds they’ve solved the poverty crisis.

How else do you think we gain knowledge in order to develop new technology? by worshiping our local star as some sort of mysterious god?

I'm pretty sure religeion, offshore bank accounts and nom-doms do more to harm the human race then a fancy telescope, but that's just my opinion.

And yes, above all, people are allowed a difference of opinion.

Of course. But (again) I find it weird that someone would take time out of their day to vociferously write about how little they care about something. It is the very definition of trolling, it serves no purpose other than to attempt to derail a conversation.

Well perhaps in these other worlds, but certainly not on this forum.

Exactly that, which is why you haven't been allowed to post your opinion and your output has been deleted by the moderators.

Er, oh.

So billion upon billions spent, and i think that could be better spent elsewhere.

Google : show me an utter disregard for acknowledgment and understanding of scientific discovery

So billion upon billions spent

Jobs created, wages paid…

I find it weird that someone would take time out of their day to vociferously write about how little they care about something.

Its called having an opinion on the matter. All the threads on this an other forums are made up of people casting their vote, their opinion on the matter, and while this one is interesting I believe such a waste of money is unnecessary.

I have pointed that out, but have yet to hear anyone counter that with anything other than a hazy and ambiguous  'scientific discovery'

.

How will staring off into the universe at great cost benefit mankind. Simply it wont. Will it produce new forms and methods for creating energy ? - No. Will it solve the food crisis or any of the many crisis's we have on this planet - No.

What will it do for us. It will do nothing for the majority, but keep a small fraction in tea and biscuits.

Chocolate biscuits no less, and probably foil wrapped.

.

I think it is a waste of money, it will do nothing to help us. Feel free to explain why you think it is a good thing they're doing.

But what does it actually do for us- Humanity that is.

Knowledge. It's literally priceless, it's why you live like you do, it's why diseases are cured and you don't live up to your knees in mud clutching a spear and hoping the spotted growly thing doesn't hunt you tonight.

So billion upon billions spent, and i think that could be better spent elsewhere.

There isn't a limited pot of cash that needs to be spent on one thing OR the other. Govts do not operate like households where we have to make that decision.

I think it is a waste of money, it will do nothing to help us. Feel free to explain why you think it is a good thing they’re doing.

Said of the the person who discovered Iron "you'll never melt that rock, and why would you want to anyway? why are you wasting precious fire wood?

Its called having an opinion on the matter. All the threads on this an other forums are made up of people casting their vote, their opinion on the matter, and while this one is interesting I believe such a waste of money is unnecessary.

You really read this thread and thought it was opinion based? Yes there are many threads that invite differing opinions. Maybe the “is the JWST worth it” thread would be a better one?

Where do you think the billions spent has gone? It's gone into the economy via wages, suppliers etc etc.

Those pictures are absolutely stunning. The thing that does it for me is the background on the photos that are of large foreground objects -nebulae etc. the background is just full of endless galaxies. And between them are countless smaller dots which are surely more galaxies. The scale is just mind blowing.

Simply it wont. Will it produce new forms and methods for creating energy ? – No. Will it solve the food crisis or any of the many crisis’s we have on this planet – No.

Wait until you see paintings - it's going to blow your mind

your point is understood but it does seem to be whataboutery.  The LHC is about 5Billion, shouldn't that have been built?  At what point do we stop.  I do agree that I would much prefer that the world focus on ways of reducing energy consumption as at the moment as well as looking at the food crisis but that shouldn't stop scientific investigation

I think it is a waste of money, it will do nothing to help us. Feel free to explain why you think it is a good thing they’re doing.

Personally I think you're quite entitled to voice your opinions on here, and to an extent I see where you are coming from. That said, I don't agree.

Firstly, £10 billion or thereabouts is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of money swilling about in the world. And that £10 billion will have found its way back into the economy in a variety of ways such as keeping people employed who pay taxes and then spend their wages.

How much money is spent on the likes of football? Does that help mankind? You could also argue that football supports a lot of jobs and brings pleasure to large numbers of people (though as a Morton fan I'd maybe argue the "pleasure" thing). But so does astronomy bring a lot of pleasure to people, albeit far fewer. There's the thing of knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

We don't know yet what technological advances the JWST will bring us, or what new knowledge we'll get. However we're already seeing one benefit in the "wow factor". I personally am already delighted at what I've seen, as are huge numbers of other people, so that £10 billion has improved our lives. And there's a chance (okay a very slim chance) that the JWST will prove we aren't alone in the universe which would be the single greatest discovery of all time, apart possibly from the invention of pizza.

So that's my explanation of why I think it's a good thing.

Back on topic, have we seen this yet?

https://web.wwtassets.org/specials/2022/jwst-smacs/

Been following this for ages and the first pictures really are outstanding. The team involved must be ecstatic.

Truly amazing technology and science. Love it, can’t wait to see what drops out from this project. I mean, this is just the start and already it’s knocked it out of the park.

Back on topic, have we seen this yet?

https://web.wwtassets.org/specials/2022/jwst-smacs/Posted 1 minute ago

The only 'high def' zoomed in part is what we've already seen as presumably that's where the telescope is concentrating, but if you zoom out and adjust the opacity....mind=blown... there are no words for this. The've clearly spun the telescope around a few times to get a general vista, and then concentrated on that particular part for probably good reasons...it's truly insane.

I’m going to stop looking at photo’s like these. It was bad enough with Hubble but I can see Webb’s on another level.
Trying to get my head round space just gives me a bad head.

Space, it’s not only queerer than you think, it’s queerer than you CAN think.

ount of money swilling about in the world. And that £10 billion will have found its way back into the economy in a variety of ways such as keeping people employed who pay taxes and then spend their wages.

Yup - like my brother in law and sister in law who were quite significantly involved in the project (as in at launch control kinda involved) are now financially in a position to foster a child and step back from working all the time.

Firstly, £10 billion or thereabouts is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of money swilling about in the world.

+1
There are many other ways of wasting £10 billion. Weapons for example. This is about knowledge. If you don't care fair enough. But many do.

And yes, above all, people are allowed a difference of opinion. Well perhaps in these other worlds, but certainly not on this forum.

From where I’m sitting, it’s a very narrow-minded and provincial opinion. The Webb telescope adds massively to the sum total of human knowledge, quite apart from just a growing sense of wonder at just how goddamned ****ing huge the universe is!
If it wasn’t for humans constant desire for, and striving for knowledge about everything that’s around us, and beyond what we can see with our own eyes, we likely wouldn’t have progressed much further than Neanderthal society, they certainly seemed to possess similar traits. It’s a truism that no knowledge is wasted, no matter how abstract or arcane it might appear to some - I never had the benefit of a fancy education, going to grammar school and university, etc,; I went to a secondary modern and left at sixteen but my working class parents, especially my dad, bought me books on nature, and science, and my dad gave me a basic interest in technology and engineering, opening for me a world so much vaster and more fascinating than the performance of a bloody football team, which seemed to be the main preoccupation of many of my former classmates.
Honestly, there are birds with a greater sense of curiosity about the world around them than you seem to possess.

Has nobody photoshopped a USS enterprise or a Borg cube into that image yet! The urge for the people in that team to splice to e in must have been huge! Probably why I’m not a clever scientist type! 🤣🤣🤷‍♂️

dyna-ti
Free Member
Indeed, if you have nothing positive to say and all that. It’s just stunning what we can achieve, these images are mind blowing and beyond comprehension.

Well its hardly beyond comprehension, because there it is on the screen, another snapshot showing us how gigantic and unreachable the rest of the universe is, and all for the cost of 10 billion dollars.

Yes I appreciate how incredibly big it all is, I actually got that from the opening of the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.

And yes I marveled at the images of the hubble(Cost $11 billion).

But what does it actually do for us- Humanity that is. Remind us of how small we are, how insignificant.

So billion upon billions spent, and i think that could be better spent elsewhere.

Yes it is incredible to look at, and yes in that gigantic expanse, theres bound to be other life, though I hope they’ve got beyond spending so much money on things that are unreachable. Perhaps in these other worlds they’ve solved the poverty crisis.

And yes, above all, people are allowed a difference of opinion. Well perhaps in these other worlds, but certainly not on this forum.

[img] [/img]

Here's a short list to get you started.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/07/08/space-race-inventions-we-use-every-day-were-created-for-space-exploration/39580591/

TheDTs
Free Member
Has nobody photoshopped a USS enterprise or a Borg cube into that image yet! The urge for the people in that team to splice to e in must have been huge! Probably why I’m not a clever scientist type! 🤣🤣🤷‍♂️

😆

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Who needs photoshop? This is just a screenshot.

To my eye this looks scary close to Iron Maidens Eddie. Maybe this should go in the “something in my eye” thread?

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I spent 31 hours travelling home yesterday, with no intamanerd actress on ship, or I was driving.

How bloody brilliant to see these images. So much more to come too.

Without getting embroiled in any pointless arguments, I just want dyna-ti to know that I share his views on this topic.

Woah..needs to be on a big screen & click to zoom…

I’m late to the party and have not seen any of the images yet. So, a few questions if I may.

Where is the best place to begin, to look at the images on an iPad and/or a Tv?
Where is the best place to view images, along with someone explaining what I am seeing, in a fairly technical way?
What is gravity lensing and how can you see its effects in the images? - I can kinda imagine what it must be. Is it to do with the ‘circularness’ of the images?

Cheers

gauss1777

What is gravity lensing and how can you see its effects in the images? – I can kinda imagine what it must be. Is it to do with the ‘circularness’ of the images?

It is when the gravity from a massive object bends space enough to act like a lens, distorting/enlarging/duplicating the image behind it.

It is when the gravity from a massive object bends space enough to act like a lens, distorting/enlarging/duplicating the image behind it.

Thanks, that fits with my presumptions. However, how can people look at an image and go “wow, look at the gravitational lensing”? What am I missing?

gauss1777
Free Member

It is when the gravity from a massive object bends space enough to act like a lens, distorting/enlarging/duplicating the image behind it.

Thanks, that fits with my presumptions. However, how can people look at an image and go “wow, look at the gravitational lensing”? What am I missing?

Well if you have multiple images over a period of time you can literally see the distortion changing between the pics.

Otherwise it's just by how it looks, for example an Einstein Ring:

There's a nice gif on wikipedia showing it

Has anyone zoomed out on that link and found the planet that literally looks like a giant tennis ball?

in the above image where the galaxies are stretched and distorted into a circle, they are actually behind the "normal" shaped one inside the circle.

But what does it actually do for us- Humanity that is.

Just one example: We only understand relativity (to the extend that we do) because we tried to understand the galaxy and it didn't make sense without it. If we didn't have that knowledge, we couldn't have made GPS work.

We don't yet know what beneficial understanding we'll get from JWST but I expect it to be substantial.

Otherwise it’s just by how it looks, for example an Einstein Ring

That is helpful, thanks.

in the above image where the galaxies are stretched and distorted into a circle, they are actually behind the “normal” shaped one inside the circle.

I think I can picture this, although not as easily as that Einstein ring. I guess it depends on the position of the galaxy or whatever, behind the massive object? (A bit like the different conic sections you see from a torch as you change the angle - maybe ?)

Anyway, thanks both.

 Will it produce new forms and methods for creating energy ? – No. Will it solve the food crisis or any of the many crisis’s we have on this planet – No.

I think it's fair to always question whether research is useful, but these statements are only really fair critism if those were the questions that this research has been devised to answer, and in both of these questions, the answers to them already exists. We have the ability to produce much cleaner forms of energy, and we already produce enough food to feed everyone. The only problem to solve in both of them is political and not a scientific

think I can picture this, although not as easily as that Einstein ring.

I think the lens is due to the super massive elliptical galaxy (the big bright diffuse blob in the center of the picture) all then the all "tangential" ones would be behind it.