[Closed] the indian head wobble

I think it means they don't like you or think you're steriotyping them. 😉

I'm not stereotyping them. My indian colleagues do that head wobble. One of my british colleagues constantly rubs his fingers before he types. Fact based observation. Those people do that.

Had i said "why do [i]indians[/i] do that head wobble?" as opposed to asking a specific question about my colleagues, then yes, i would have been stereotyping. But I didn't, so I'm not.

We were given a session at work to help understand cultural differences and help us work better with our Indian colleagues. I'm led to believe it is basically confirmation they are listening. "Yes" also rarely means yes. It just means they've heard what you said and will go away and think about it some more.

In as many words, my take on it is that it's a bit of a "f~~k you" type gesture - mainly unconscious, no different to other generic gestures in other countries / races, before anyone plays the racism card....

I'm not stereotyping them. My indian colleagues do that head wobble. One of my british colleagues constantly rubs his fingers before he types. Fact based observation. Those people do that.

Yeah, but you call it the Indian Head Wobble. So unless you have seen more than just your colleagues, and many many more Indians and no non-Indians do it, then yes it is stereotyping

Maybe it means you don't understand this winkysmiley thing. 😉

All the indians I know just act the same as me.
Hardly suprising really as we all gew up in the same area and went to the same school.

Folks are just dying for things to be offensive...
🙄

[quote=CharlieMungus ]
Yeah, but you call it the Indian Head Wobble. So unless you have seen more than just your colleagues, and many many more Indians and no non-Indians do it, then yes it is stereotyping
I've seen lots of Indians make that movement when talking so it's not just the OP.

I've seen lots of indians do it, i don't remember seeing any non-indians do it.

I can't quantify how many of either of the above indian or non-indians I have seen doing or not doing it to ensure I don't cross the stereotyping threshold so i will plead inconclusive evidence and go forth with a notepad to record any further observations.

😉

http://brookemort.theworldrace.org/?filename=explanation-of-the-head-bobble

Please report your results with statistics to back it up.

A graph or two might be nice and help demonstrate you findings. 🙂

I can't quantify how many of either of the above indian or non-indians I have seen doing or not doing it to ensure I don't cross the stereotyping threshold so i will plead inconclusive evidence and go forth with a notepad to record any further observations.

Inconclusive is fine, so we don't know if it is an Indian Head wobble or just a head wobble.

It does mean yes, and it is confusing for us Europeans who are not brought up with it. They can do it very subtly while you talk (as if someone were nodding in recognition) or more fully as a full answer to a question

I have spent over 6 months in India so I know
We got very confused when asking a waiter a question, he just kept doing his little sideways nod and we kept asking the question
If you don't know it, you tend to take it more like a shoulder shrug than a full nod, so it can look like "I dont know " or "I dont care" but it isn't, it is a proper yes

You may also hear "acha" which is a common way of saying yes or ok or aha

So according to the video it's all fault of the British Empire (and pre-Empire days)?

Well someone tell'em that the colonial days are over and that they can stand easy now, ie just say no, no need to bobble.

I have spent over 6 months in India so I know
We got very confused when asking a waiter a question, he just kept doing his little sideways nod and we kept asking the question

Which part of India were you in? I often work i Lucknow and Shimla. I don't see it.

Mainly in the South, which explains the difference! Didn't realise though

It's a trait that i associate with Indians, and I've had a great laugh at work trying to copy it and to copy some of the Indian hand gestures too.
got the hang of it now though.

So, have I been exonerated Mr Mungus?

Caveman has it most nearly correct to my knowledge. The 'head wobble' is an acknowledgement of what you are saying. I'm not sure if it is unique to the Indian sub-continent inhabitants, but that is where I have seen it. Like the word "Accha" it is subtle and can signify different things like: -
- yes
- ok
- really?
- I understand

However it wouldn't appear to be be universal amongst all individuals from the sub-continent. My fathers family who originated from India but had been in Mauritius for some time, didn't do it at all.

I have also worked with hundreds of people from companies such as Wipro and TCS. Apparently some of these organisations put staff through programmes to educate them in the culture of the people they will be working with. That could explain why the 'wobble' is not universal in people's working experiences.

Observation of culture specific behaviours is not in itself racist or prejudiced as some above seem to be suggesting. Observation is the basis of science! How you use the observation could be seen in a racist or prejudiced way - but the OP didn't do that - he simply asked an open and honest question.

my granny did it, and she's from ****stan, so it's not just Indians that do it. (Although ****stan was India when she was born, so who knows!)

There are some odd responses to what is a valid question.

We have a branch in Chennai and when I first went over there I was quite confused by the head wobble and I had to look it up on the internet.

Quite fascinating when you read about the different meanings. There is nothing wrong with questioning things that you do not understand.

funnily enough, I've seen it in colleagues from wipro.

So, have I been exonerated Mr Mungus?

far from it! It has been shown to be not specific to India as well as not universal in India. So to call it the'indian' head wobble is an overgeneralisation and still stereotyping.

What would you rather he called it in instead maybe a ethnic head wobble or brown person head wobble. Op had a perfectly valid question and wanted to understand a cultural difference. I've learnt something that I never knew and had often wondered about. Maybe you should go and be offended for someone else now?

far from it?! I beg to differ.

It has been suggested that this is predominantly an Indian sub-continental trait, or where it is not specifically Indian, that there is a direct historical link its origins in India. The above videos and a number of links feature Indians themselves describing the Indian Head Wobble/bobble.

I think you're trying very hard to be offended, or to appear amazingly politically correct, God forbid someone ever gives you a Chinese burn.

From the scant evidence shown above, the head wobble of which we speak is widely known as the Indian Head Wobble inside and beyond India.

What about Red Indians, do they do it aswell?

[img] [/img]

God forbid someone ever gives you a Chinese burn.

Oh FFS, get over it and stop moaning about Stereotyping.

If you cant handle the OP calling it Indian, get out on your bike while the sun shines, it may loosen you up a bit 🙂

Ive a team in India who all do it differently, I asked them and they said different parts of India do it differently and it carrys different meanings dependin where you are from.

^ + 1

(while respecting the right of those who feel compelled to take offence on behalf of others 😉 )

Next question, what does the Japanese habit of taking a sharp in breath and saying "Ano....." mean, or what does the Japanese word "Hai" actually mean. (rhetorical questions BTW)

[i]It's a trait that i associate with Indians,[/i]

This.

Me too, worked with loads of Indians across the world and in India. tbh I just ignore it now, as I reckon it doesn't actually mean anything.

A bit like the Japanese 'yes'.

far from it! It has been shown to be not specific to India as well as not universal in India. So to call it the'indian' head wobble is an overgeneralisation and still stereotyping.

Oh my Gods* - that Indian bloke in the video says that Indian people do the Indian head wobble as well, just like the reactionary Comrade Pook - can't believe that he can be so racist! 😯

* Other belief systems are available, and one should not discriminate against them

CharlieMungus - Member
So, have I been exonerated Mr Mungus?
far from it! It has been shown to be not specific to India as well as not universal in India. So to call it the'indian' head wobble is an overgeneralisation and still stereotyping.

Give over Charlie Mungus. You are making yourself look a bit silly.

Pook. I doubt you will be able to change Charlie's impression. Wouldn't waste your time trying any further...

Was the original point/question stereotyping? Yes.
Was it racist/xenophobic/bigoted? Not at all.
Was it on the pretty harmless end of the handwringometer? Of course.
Is anyone pointing out the stereotyping guilty of the lazy accusation of being "offended on behalf of others"? I very much doubt it.

it's a bit like the English "sorry"

we say it all the time but don't mean it.

and it makes my non english colleagues laugh as we say it all the time.

Pook, you can differ whether you beg or not. You asked me a question then grump about the answer. If you don't actually want to know what I think and aren't prepared to engage with it, then why ask me a question?

I've not said ia am offended, I've not accused anyone of racism. I've merely ipointed out that the term plays to stereotypes, and it does, as demonstrated by the comments on here. Some Indians do a head wobble, some other folks do too.

Don't try so hard to be offended just because someone talks about stereotyping.

Stereotyping is not necessarily a bad thing anyway. As long as it is correctly applied. (although I don't even thing that the OP was stereotyping in the first place)

I've not said ia am offended

Spoilsport.

There is the rolling of the wrist too, a lot of indian guys do this when making a point.

[broadlyacceptedanddescribedasIndianHeadBobblemode]

as suggested above, I shall retreat from this now, bemused. Thanks for the informative answers folks

[\broadlyacceptedanddescribedasIndianHeadBobblemode]

There are some stereotypical Singletrack winkers on this thread.

[broadlyacceptedanddescribedasIndianHeadBobblemode]

as suggested above, I shall retreat from this now, bemused. Thanks for the informative answers folks

[\broadlyacceptedanddescribedasIndianHeadBobblemode]

I Win!!

it's a bit like the English "I'm not racist..."

we say it all the time but don't mean it.

I like stereotyping - makes it much simpler to dish out general abuse and insult to large groups or even whole countrys 🙂

If you couldt stereotype it would be a personal insult.

If you worked from home Pook you wouldn't have this problemo

Stereotyping is not necessarily a bad thing anyway. As long as it is correctly applied.

Have some fun trying to come up with a universally accurate one.
Will the hive mind manage it ?

But be quick as this thread will soon be closed because of its racial stereotyping

There are some stereotypical Singletrack winkers on this thread.

I find this observation offensive.

JY, there is no point in seeking a universally applicable stereotype. That is an oxymoron.

But that is not my point. The point is simple, stereotypes (weaknesses accepted) are not necessarily bad nor unhelpful. In this case, it is important to understand that the movement of the head that is "often encountered in India" is not to be considered the same as someone agreeing. It's the same as hai in Japanese. Again, I don't even think its stereotyping.

It really should be possible to discuss national characteristics without the words stereotyping and racist immediately coming to mind.

It really should be possible to discuss national characteristics without the words stereotyping and racist immediately coming to mind.

Perhaps so, if they really are national characteristics, and not overgeneralisations from a limited sample

Racial stereotyping is allowed on STW as the mods don't consider it to be racist.

Nice one, a relatively interesting thread turned into an utter bore-fest inside two pages

"Yes" also rarely means yes. It just means they've heard what you said and will go away and think about it some more.

Are we allowed to associate the 'Gallic Shrug' with the French anymore?

It really should be possible to discuss national characteristics without the words stereotyping and racist immediately coming to mind.

I am not sure it is always racist tbh but it is always inaccurate.

I agree we all do it in an attempt to put order in the world so we know how to react when we see say a tattooed skin headed gentleman with a pit bull. However to suggest there is a trait or something universal about them all is fraught with dangers and innaccuracies unless it is a tautology

i think they can be weak and unhelpful but not always..it just depends on whether you can let reality alter the stereotype

what about the singletrack smug knowallness,is that a stereotype,jeez.

well out in the real world, I have a great time with my colleagues and friends from all over the world and we stereotype each other all the time and its fun.
from my typically english sorry, to the loud Americans, to the miserable french, the sex obsessed Ukrainians, the workaholic Spanish the miserable Germans and Swiss, the laid back Dutch,

its great in my office, always a good day and a lot of banter.

CharlieMungus, you've managed to hound the OP off his own thread, when he asked a perfectly reasonable question phrased in a completely inoffensive way. Get a sense of perspective man!

Stereotyping is not necessarily a bad thing anyway.

Phew!

I thought for a brief minute there that I might learn something to broaden my multi-cultural understanding...

Kona, didn't that post need a 😉 ?

CharlieMungus, you've managed to hound the OP off his own thread, when he asked a perfectly reasonable question phrased in a completely inoffensive way. Get a sense of perspective man!

Really? I thought he left because he had so much new information that he had to away and think about i or a bit.

Perhaps you are right, maybe we should leave people to get on with their idle generalisations.

Oh I'm still here.

its great in my office, always a good day and a lot of banter.

I thought for a brief minute there that I might learn something to broaden my multi-cultural understanding...

* cunningly plays double bluff to confuse moronic english 😉

It is often very hard to tell on the internet what the intent is.

* cunningly plays double bluff to confuse moronic english

😀

Oh for gods' sake CM, really?

The OP was talking about his colleagues, not every person of Indian descent who ever walked the Earth. If you're going to troll you could at least read the post before you hit the keyboard. But well done, you've successfully derailed the thread into pointless bickering. Have a biscuit.

Different cultures have different customs. Westerners shake hands. Europeans kiss friends on the cheek. Brits stick two fingers up at each other, much to the confusion of Americans. A friend of mine worked for a Japanese company for a while and the amount of etiquette he had to learn in order to avoid causing unintentional offence was mind-boggling.

But that's not to say all Europeans are into cheek-love or that it's an exclusively European trait. I don't say 'sorry' unless I am, I trained myself out of that ridiculous habit; should I be offended at the lazy stereotype, or vexed that I'm being swept up in a broad generalisation?

Is that another reference to Michael Douglas?

Oh, sorry, you said cunningly. Misread for a moment!

(well put cougs!)

😀

This will probably offend a few people but I actually like Roy Chubby Brown's standup. All hes doing is old-school offence. Not unlike the 'spoon-face/shes good at swimming as she looks like a Dolphin' of a modern comedian.

Who cares, stop being soo bloody sensitive. Go on any Spanish etc holiday and you can spot the Brits a thousand yards away with their 'mannerism's and funny dress sense etc etc.

Is that racist? Or observational?

All hes doing is old-school offence

Problem is he probably believes these views rather than he is taking the piss out of them- see also Bernard manning and anumber of other "old School" comedians

Probably but then where does one stop when our politicians are all sordid ****ers with hidden lives.

Thinking about it, the 'two fingers' thing isn't a bad analogy actually.

As far as I know at least, broadly speaking it's an exclusively British trait(*). Would we be having the same discussion about racism and stereotyping if a non-UK website was asking "Often, when talking to my British colleagues they'll stick up two fingers to me, similarly to how Americans might stick up one. It's very endearing, but where does it come from and what does it mean/signify? "

(* - it's an English act of defiance; is it commonplace in the rest of the Isles? Can't say as I've particularly noticed either way.)

everyone does two fingers but you dont notice because we do it behind your back what with you being a mod 😉

they do in wales and Scotland cannot speak for rest of UK

it's an English act of defiance; is it commonplace in the rest of the Isles? Can't say as I've particularly noticed either way.

Yep, still used in Scotland..

[img] [/img]

..despite being somewhat less-famed for our use of long bows in military conflicts..

I believe it is a sort of good-natured eqivocation.

A sort of 'I don't know' - both actually and as in 'just look at him with the fake tan, I don't know'.

I quite like it - we british are restrained by the nod/shake system to expressing certainty even when we are not certain.

To do an equivalent, the brits need to involve the shoulders in a shrug - but that can be misconstured as not giving a toss.

Those body language analyst / consultant folks would have field day.

Well, I'm pretty PC on the whole but I don't think this is a racist thread. I've worked with lots of Indians and become friends with a fair few, and only one of them did the head wobble, she was from Kerala. She knew it confused Europeans though so tried not to do it; she found it amusing when we acted confused whilst we tried to remember that she did this and wasn't saying no when she meant yes.

It's not racism, it's cultural diversity in all its splendour. If we'd berated her and her gestures for being stupid or obstructive in some way, that would have been offensive.

As far as I know at least, broadly speaking it's an exclusively British trait

According to Wiki IIRC it's understood in Australia too.

According to Wiki IIRC it's understood in Australia too.

Well most of them would have seen the rest of us doing it towards them from the docks as they were being transported. 😀

Well most of them would have seen the rest of us doing it towards them from the docks as they were being transported.

And we're doing it back to you now as you Poms all try to emigrate here to get away from the shite weather and recession 😀

Isn't Aus supposed to be the most expensive place in the world to live in ATM.