The Grapil.....
 

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[Closed] The Grapil.....

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Looks great, but remarkably like a "Genesis ASR5" IMO. Similar angles, same linkage driven rear albeit with a pivot on the seat stays, similar HT standard, etc.

Seems like they've taken a winning formula and replicated it, no? Which is good, hopefully it'll achieve volumes sales depending on the price point, just that I was hoping for something a bit different I guess. The Iphone 5 of the bike world? 😕

Your thoughts for discussion?


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 11:55 am
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I think it looks awesome, love the minimal look, matt black and nice logo.


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 12:00 pm
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What's a techy woodland death match?
If I'm normally ride agro-xc will I need to upskill or sideskill to handle death-match compatible geometry?


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 12:07 pm
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Bushings...


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 12:10 pm
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Huh? Genesis are a brand which has a name for making nicely thought out, fairly middle of the road hardtail and rigid bikes which ride well*. Why would you expect something other than a well thought out, fairly middle of the road full susser?

*Not a dig, I own two genesis bikes.


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 12:16 pm
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[i]What's a techy woodland death match?[/i]

Badger vs Fox but with added laser beams.


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 12:17 pm
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Shandy - Member
Bushings..

Got the same Norglide bushings on my Saracen Ariel, they've been faultless, havent cleaned the bike since i bought it....i just give it a wipe down when the dirt is dry, no play in any of the linkages.

Southern Downill/Ride It Out had one on long term test, the bushings as opposed to bearings were one of the things they thought were great....so impressed were the that they bought it from Saracen at the end of their tenure with the bike and sent it off to the Alps as a guide bike.


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 12:21 pm
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Can you get Norglide bushings for Fox?


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 12:51 pm
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I assume so, the RP23 on my bike is secured in place and moves about on what i think are Norglide bushings?....could be wrong though and the much heralded Norglide bushings could only be on the single pivot point and linkage....i'm sure somebody else on here will know!


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 1:17 pm
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All the Saracen and Genesis bikes seem to have stopped being in the 'value' range.
I can't quite work out if they're worth the asking prices. I wonder how many Fortitudes have been sold.

£2,800 seems a lot of money and gives you the choice of pretty much every non-carbon bike out there.


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 1:33 pm
 TimP
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Thought it all looked good and then saw £2.8k. Will be playing the lottery again this weekend in the vain hope I might one day be able to buy a brand new f/s bike...


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 1:33 pm
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£2,800 seems a lot of money and gives you the choice of pretty much every non-carbon bike out there.

And some carbon bikes with mid-range kit, eg. Zesty 514, Fuel EX 9.7, Remedy 9.7 are in or close to that price range.

Much as I like the look of the Genesis, I'd have to go with one of those instead.


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 1:36 pm
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AlexSimon - Member
All the Saracen and Genesis bikes seem to have stopped being in the 'value' range.

This, shame really....my middle model Ariel-2 was £1500 at the beginning of the year, since then a new range has been released with the basic model costing £2200 with a lesser spec?!


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 1:40 pm
 ojom
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You can order the bushings from Mojo. I got some for my HD.


 
Posted : 28/09/2012 1:56 pm
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£2800?

For a built in taiwan, alloy, full suspension bike?

No bloody chance.
Seriously, the piss is being taken big time.

If the likes of Boardman and Canyon can do the same thing with a higher spec at half the price, you just have to ask yourself how sodding shameless these people are?

The real shame is, some people will actually buy them.

Regardless of how good the bike is to ride, I'd feel like a mug every time I went for a ride.


 
Posted : 29/09/2012 6:48 pm
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Interestingly, they've just dropped the prices:
Genesis Grapil 20: [s]£2800[/s] to £2600

Genesis Grapil 10: [s]£2250[/s] to £2100

Genesis Grapil frame only: [s]£1350[/s] to £1300

Source: 18bikes.co.uk


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 10:56 am
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£1300 frame only isn't too bad. What shock does that include?
In line with a Cotic Rocket.


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:00 am
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No idea - it's still only showing on the Genesis website as 'prototype'.


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:06 am
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How come a FS frame costs 900 quid more than a similar quality hardtail? Ok, 400 quid for the shock, that still leaves 500 quid, surely a having a pivot doesnt cost that much more?


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:09 am
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[i]surely a having a pivot doesnt cost that much more? [/i]

extra machining, much longer weld time, more material, more time painting/assembling, higher development/design costs - all add up.

and, of course, higher perceived value 😉


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:11 am
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strange double post


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:11 am
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I don't see why you would pay double the price of a Boardman with a better spec...

I really don't like the drab look of it. It looks cheap and plain to my eyes.


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:12 am
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Probably more research/R&D, too. (in theory there might be tons of R&D in every new genesis hardtail too; but I doubt it tbh)


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:13 am
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I don't see why you would pay double the price of a Boardman with a better spec...

VFM doesn't make it a better bike though, not that i'm arguing as it is expensive


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:29 am
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[url= http://shop.18bikes.co.uk/products.php?plid=m5b0s517p1816 ]Even better [/url]when it's less than £1300 for the frame 😉

The frame only option is the same as the Grapil 20 bike - Ano Black, with Rockshox RT3 shock.

Having spoken to Dom (Genesis) about this bike - he was after a simple, plain look, I guess to fit in with the clean lines of a range that's mainly steel hardtails/road bikes, rather than hydroformed aluminium. We've had a prototype on loan for a bit - grat fun to ride despite being too small for me!

The hardware at the pivots is just lovely - if the life I got from the Norglide on my Saracen Ariel's anything to go by, then I'm confident they'll last well.

Price drop - whether that's come from dealer and customer feedback, a better exchange rate than expected, I don't know - but I'm not about to complain to them about it!


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:33 am
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I really don't like the drab look of it. It looks cheap and plain to my eyes.

Ditto.
If i saw it in Halfords with a Carrera badge on it I wouldnt question it.


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:38 am
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VFM doesn't make it a better bike though, not that i'm arguing as it is expensive

No you're right. Thing is though the FS Pro is very good bike.


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 11:41 am
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Re the comment on cost and Fortitude sales. Not sure my rigid SS cost me about £1400 to build in 2006. Voodoo Wanga frame was a sale item but everything else was new. Admittedly White Industries freewheel, handbuilt wheels (but "only" Surly hubs), Race RC30 fork. A Fortitude single is what £850? I paid something like £600/£700 for a rigid Inbred 29er when they were launched (and had it nicked in all of 3 weeks). I think the Fortitude compares well price wise especially given that since I bought both those bikes a lot of kit has jumped up massively.

I still think it's a shame though that a Madison brand can't put a single ring XT crank on them though instead of a Truvativ for the money. Well at least an SLX on the SS but I think the Race and the Adventure are pricey enough to get an XT. But maybe the big S won't play ball on providing their multi ring chainsets with only one or no ring, even to one of their Importers.


 
Posted : 04/10/2012 12:15 pm
 Alb
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Common misconception that Genesis, being under the Madison banner, get preferencial treatment or OEM rates from Shimano. It's all based on volume, and with this in mind, Genesis is a very small fish in a big pond.

As for big S producing special single ring chainsets given the qtys of bikes Genesis are ordering... I'm afriad you've got a very rose tinted view of the OEM market.


 
Posted : 25/10/2012 9:31 pm
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Can you get Norglide bushings for Fox?

If you can get the cane creek ones to fit

Norglide manufacture the bush to the companies OEM or factory requirement I spoke at length with them when they told me if i wanted bushes to fit frames "then you tool up for them" we dont manufacture off the shelf bushings its not the same as buyng an igus turcite or oilite bearing


 
Posted : 25/10/2012 9:58 pm

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