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I have no idea if the forum is dying. Presumably the guys at ST Towers know from the stats. Mostly though, things on the internet are never as good as they used to be etc. 😐
I tried to interact with this thread this morning on my phone but after minutes waiting for it to load past a blank screen, avoid the ads, wait for the page to scroll and finally get to the text box I just gave up.
Now, hours later I'm on the Mac and its ok. It doesnt take many multiples of that experience to make the forum feel dead.
Must admit I've suffered v few of the posting/updating/advertising issues others have said they have had.
I have posted a few queries re bike/equipment/clothing on the forum and I guesstimate that 90% of the responses are useful/informative. Though there is a cash penalty, as I've just ordered a Rapha Core gilet because it had a double zip, amongst numerous other items!
Some of the aggressive/toxic comments on the political posts have stopped me posting on there. So a bit more tolerance of others views would be good, except for supporters of Johnson, Trump, Farage, etc, .. .. obviously 🙉
Though, TBF, they do make me sanity check some of my basic assumptions.
Personally I'm with STW for the long term, largely because there is an invaluable knowledge base from like minded people who enjoy being outdoors doing stuff, who are happy to share thoughtful advice 💪
Reminder to self to post re internal gear cable guide tube on my Capra failing 🙈 and practical options arising.
Thank you STWers
same ten three ****ers?
but seriously. with a subscription this site is one of the slowest loading, flakiest sites I regularly visit, without it i can't imagine why anyone would feel strongly enough to battle through the ads to post something.
the regularity is diminishing and I doubt I alone. I'm unlikely to renew my digital sub.
It never ceases to amaze me whenever one of these threads pops up that there are always a decent number of folk that post, normally within a day, about how they hardly ever come here anymore/it’s rubbish/can’t stand anyone here. Amongst all the regular contributors to this kind of thread.
Amazing coincidence I suppose.
Don’t like the content? Be the change you want to see.
About what nickkingsley said for me.
The technical threads (bike and chat) are generally good.
The politics threads are miserable but given that entrenched monologues on political matters are increasingly polluting LinkedIn I'm going to do what I do there...scroll on by.
And I still really enjoy the writing of the STW staff. 🙂
A couple of years ago we were all stuck inside all day with nothing to do (apart from our daily exercise). I'm sure I read and contributed more to the forum then.The politics threads are ridiculous purity spirals - agree with the most extravagant virtue signalling statement or be called a bigot.
"And once a certain 4 letter username member has posted once of his essays, its hardly worth responding...". Do you mean Mark? That's a bit harsh, it's his forum!
STW is still the place I turn to when I need advice on just about anything, and it's rare that I don't get good suggestions.
For me I think I have become disillusioned with the Internet or more specially public discussions on the Internet. There is very little actual debate online in my opinion it's just people shouting at everyone else. Very few people are genuinely interested in replies to their own posts other than to use it as an opportunity to show off.
I could of course be wrong.... but I'm not
Although it seems quieter after the forum migration I think this is one of the few places wherr I still get involved in threads though it's much less than I used to I do still scroll through the chat forum in particular a few times a day.
I haven’t posted in a long time (mostly due to being dumped on by forum users for absolutely no reason). When I was first using this forum you could ask questions and more than likely get an appropriate answer and the depth of knowledge was astounding sometimes!. Then something changed and I experienced what was verging on bullying ( from what was at the time a moderator!).
Is that directed at me? I'm the only former (visible) moderator I know of. If it is and I offended you then I'm sorry, but to be honest I don't recognise your username so can't comment further I'm afraid. (That's on me, I'm shite at keeping track of poster names aside from problem children.)
It's unlikely that you'd get "dumped on for no reason." You may well have contentious views challenged but, well, welcome to public Internet forums.
The politics threads are ridiculous purity spirals - agree with the most extravagant virtue signalling statement or be called a bigot.
Or... don't be a bigot?
... and my point is proved.
Forums in general are a dying art, I miss em so much, this for all its not what it was is still one of the stronger survivors. Good forums (and mailing lists!) have made my life so much better, and I include this one for sure. Every platform does at least some things better and some things worse than others but nothing else has replaced a good strong forum for me
... and my point is proved.
Blimey, it's hard to imagine that Cougar could have done a better job proving it! 🤣
I agree with 13thfloormonk's earlier comment that politics is mostly punters venting how much they hate various politicians.
The political threads used to be both more interesting and useful imo because at one time there was a genuine diversity of political opinions, and as scotroutes points out there was much more "banter". I could engage politically with Tory supporters such as Stoner, CaptainFlashHeart, and even Labrat, in a perfectly friendly manner despite a huge political gulf. Now tolerance levels, certainly towards Tories, are practically non-existent and mefty seems to be the last Tory supporter to have left and closed the door behind him. STW is all the poorer for it, echo chambers really aren't healthy.
But I wouldn't exaggerate the role of political threads on the fortunes of STW, I think I am right in saying that there are only two currently active, the UK government and Nigel Farage threads (unless you include the Donald Trump thread) so they are very easy to ignore. Although I appreciate that ignoring them might be a problem for someone with a genuine interest in politics. I certainly avoid some political threads because the overwhelming consensus makes suggesting an alternative opinion completely pointless and will only lead to personal abuse and accusations of trolling. The Brexit thread is an obvious but not unique example.
When it comes to anything involving current affairs or anything remotely political, it’s the small matter of the same 5 or 6 sprit-crushingly tedious dullards who regard anyone who isn’t Jeremy Corbyn to be a fascist and who all gang up to shout down anyone who dares to disagree with their unbelievably blinkered and narrow-minded worldview
It’s not even worth posting on any of those threads any more, due to the utterly Joyless, humourless, sanctimonious, self-righteous, holier-than-though, virtue-signalling ****s all competing in their Taliban-esque way, for some inexplicable reason, to signal how idealogically pure they are .
It’s not even worth taking the piss out of them any more as it flies about ten miles over their head and they’re just permanently angry and unpleasant
*awaits flaming from said 5 or 6 mind numbingly boring ‘warriors for justice’*
And a zealot states his opinion as fact without a hint of irony.
All true believers of STW must bow to the mighty Python or be cast out!
Seriously, I know you're mates with the owners so much of the criticism you receive gets deleted and the offenders get banned but your lack of self-awareness is just comical at this point.
Why do you want to be called Loretta, Stan?
Seriously, I know you're mates with the owners so much of the criticism you receive gets deleted and the offenders get banned but your lack of self-awareness is just comical at this point
I rest my case, yr’onour
So you're not mates with the owners?
Fairly simple yes or no question that requires no memes but if you don't want to answer I guess you could always just post a picture instead.
In answer to your question… no
I just go out riding from time to time with my friends who happen to write for STW
Deleted posts, people banned? At my behest? Seriously…. Get a grip.?
How’s life in your bunker? Are you all stocked up for when the balloon goes up? Have you got enough lentils?
And a zealot states his opinion as fact without a hint of irony.
pot kettle and black comes to mind. IMO no one gets special "favours" Certainly not Binners, Ernie and me all of whom have been accused of it
In answer to your question… no
I just go out riding from time to time with my friends who happen to write for STW
Deleted posts, people banned? Seriously…. Get a grip. Have you got enough lentils?
I get warnings and posts deleted for two reasons on this forum. One is when an out and out bigot comes along and I literally call them a ****.
The other is when I call either you or dazh out on your dross.
It's easy to think you're the belle of the ball when the bouncers are chucking anyone who challenges your nonsense down the stairs and out the door.
Could the mods not introduce a rule that being tediously opinionated results in a ban? Might help the general tone of discussion
Might result in there being very few people left…
Everyone has an opinion about something, it’s just that some people don’t like others having opinions that contradict their own. 🤷🏼♂️
pot kettle and black comes to mind. IMO no one gets special "favours" Certainly not Binners, Ernie and me all of whom have been accused of it
I've had several robust exchanges of opinion with you and ernie over the years. Never been an issue.
I start getting into it with dazh and binners and suddenly my posts are getting deleted and I'm getting warnings.
It's OK though. They just sometimes go out riding with friends who happen to write for STW.
One is when an out and out bigot comes along and I literally call them a ****.
No - you make accusations of bigotry where none exist and are really nasty about it. You called me a bigot repeatedly. Its an opinion not a fact anyway most of the time. It was not robust exchanges with no issue. It was unpleasant personal vindictive attacks. Maybe that wasn't your intent but it was how it came over
No - you make accusations of bigotry where none exist and are really nasty about it. You called me a bigot repeatedly. Its an opinion not a fact anyway most of the time
OK, I don't remember calling you a bigot. I remember we've been through it a few times on trans issues. You've got fairly similar opinions to my Mum and Dad and I haven't called you anything I haven't called them. And I haven't said they are anything.
But yes, I have robustly challenged yours and your friends opinions in exactly the same way I challenge my Mum and Dad's.
From what I remember, you were the one to turn this around and say I was calling you and your friends bigots. Not me saying you were a bigot.
It was not a robust challenge - it was a complete nasty over reaction with straight into name calling. Nor was it just that one set of posts. Transphobe is a bigot. Same as racist is a bigot. Your only answer to questions was to shout down the questioner and call them a bigot
I am only posting this in the hope you might be a bit more self aware. You do what you accuse others of seemingly oblivious to this
Well, for what it's worth I don't think you're a bigot. If I called you a bigot in the past all I can say is I was maybe applying black and white thinking to things which is something I sometimes do.
Sorry about that. I honestly think we agree on more than we disagree on.
Oh god it's one of those existential threads again isn't it? Shut up pissing and whinging you decrepit ****s.
I used to run - and moderate etc - what was then the UK's busiest outdoor forum, which 'we' - mostly the people who ran the company that owned it, effectively killed by fixating on technical features and ill-advised 'upgrades' that the users didn't actually want or need and thanks to numerous technical glitches, made the whole thing harder and harder to use. At base you just want the forum to be a slick, easy to use vehicle for a community based around a shared interest and, over time, a network of online friendships rather than a complicated, 'gameified' mess that came between users and their conversations.
They're fragile things forums, slow to grow and easy to kill, like a slightly needy houseplant. But when they work, they're brilliant. It's not exactly rocket science to point out that there are multiple alternatives to forum/fora/whatever these days in the digital not-workspace. FB, ****ter or whatever it's called this week etc, etc. Pretty much every surviving forum I can think of - here, ukc, pistonheads, mumsnet etc - is a legacy survivor from digital before times.
The closest alternative I've found are specialist groups on FB. One of the joys of the wirehaired pointer pup that's currently holding us hostage in our own home, is finding a digital home on the GWP UK FB group, which is full of people who share a love of a ridiculous and special dog, so not so different from here.
I've never been a particularly prolific poster here and I'm not particularly interested in political threads / polemics / etc, but I've always found it a friendly, supportive, entertaining place that occasionally steps from the digital into the real world - eg when scotroutes very kindly bailed me out when I couldn't find the adaptors I needed for a borrowed indoor trainer. I try to be helpful when I can in sort of karmic way and in turn others have helped me. It's a place I value, which is why I have a digital subscription.
I also try not to spend too much effort worrying about it being 'not what it used to be' or 'dying' - the fact that people do is testament to the affection they have for the place and the people. I try to take it for what it is and all I really ask is that it's reasonably quick and easy to use, that I can do the simple things intuitively and post images and the occasional video. I have a journalist's picky obsession with semantics, but that's just the way I'm wired and it's icing rather than cake.
Ultimately it's kind of remarkable that this forum is still here at all and it's sometimes worth remembering and valuing that rather than nit-picking at the inevitable downsides. I'll stop going on now.
Flip me, that went sideways suddenly. How does this thread get embroiled in an argument about bigotry and favouritism?
That's the STW way, I suppose 🤣 🤣
Anyway, what I actually came here to say is that I don't think that it is dying compared to other forums.
Posting slowed dramatically during the great reboot, but I think that's picking up again. I can't remember when STW has "just worked", it's always had technical problems to a greater or lesser extent.
A contemporaneous problem has been that many threads seem to revolve around the unexpected actions of one man. It's difficult to discuss that which cannot be analysed, which is why I've given up posting on the Ukraine and other threads
As to the mag, several people on here are clearly either road, or gravel, or both. I haven't owned a MTB for years and I suspect many others don't, which might be worth a poll
Long may it keep going
Been here since 2005, used to be my go to place for advice and general forum chat. I think it’s partly the forums nature has changed and partly the users have changed. Mark makes a case for the site being healthy, but do I not remember figures of a million visitors a week?
It’s not even worth posting on any of those threads any more, due to the utterly Joyless, humourless, sanctimonious, self-righteous, holier-than-though, virtue-signalling ****s all competing in their Taliban-esque way, for some inexplicable reason, to signal how idealogically pure they are .
When I read this I thought binners was taking the piss out of himself in an amusingly self aware way. Apparently not.
Flip me, that went sideways suddenly. How does this thread get embroiled in an argument about bigotry and favouritism?
Because a couple of the very people everyone is pissed off with joined the thread (and before anyone asks I'm not looking at binners or tj who whilst both can be a little verbose at times do manage to add some interests with their posts).
There are four websites I visit every day, two are forums and the other two news pages. It's probably best described as muscle memory, or habit, I pick up a device and go through the four sites and then move on.
I rarely post, and truthfully I'm much more of a consumer than contributor - notwithstanding that I'm much less likely to post now. There are some very clever people who post some very well written content, and I enjoy reading it, but they are at an age (much like me) where I don't think they are open to having their opinion challenged. They engage in the thread but don't listen much anymore, just talk, and cement their view. I think that's pretty normal as we age to be honest, but it doesn't make for a good forum...
I don't know if the general forum is left, right, or centrist, I do know that that the strongest opinions are very much from the left and I'm saying that because it permeates through a lot of threads, not just obvious politic discussion.
I know a lot of people in the real world who used to post (well, about six) who don't post anymore because they never wanted to start an argument when expressing an opinion, but it's what they felt like it turned in to - SanctimonyTrackWorld, as my riding mates call it.
Too many threads get derailed by personal handbags that nobody else can be arsed to read (maybe like the above, although far from the worst example, which could be taken to DM), and we got all serious along the way, Friday Kylie being an example. I wasn't particularly a fan of the thread, but was it really that bad? Could the girls not have just had their own? EDL thread on a Friday used to write my playlist for the weekend.
It's not dead, could be dying, but I'll be here until the end and will miss it if it goes. Maybe I should post more when I have an opinion and just accept it'll rile somebody even if that's not the intention, and just ignore the response. Maybe we all should.
The Internet forum where there's a genuine exchange has become an uncomfortable place for people with uncomfortable views and conspiracy theory fans. There's a genuine exchange here rather than just posting shite with impunity on X etc. where people can't be arsed to argue/debate. Going through a few of the topics that have animated this forum over the years.
Climatic change: dig out old threads on the subject (which I won't as it would require getting an old hard drive out of the loft, plugging it in and hunting through the bookmarks) and some of the members that aren't around anymore posted some pretty off the wall stuff. A climate sceptic would get short thrift these days, there's something of a concensus. The only debate is around how much people are prepared to do about it on a personal level.
Brexit: There are three surviving vocal Brexiteers and two aren't very vocal anymore. That was quite a clear out, some disappeared and some have changed names; would you stick around here after promoting Brexit the way some did? You'd have to be very thick skinned. The survivor thinks we're trolling him about it apparently.;)
The right wingers. It depends on how far right but there come a point when people who ride bikes (as opposed to driving Range Rovers with hunting dogs and gun case bolted in the back) are likely to find some views unpleasant. The paper clip salesman did his best to trash the BM forum under multiple logins and bragged about it on another forum. You can only do that for as long as it takes people to work it all out. As for 5th, THM etc. it wasn't really banter was it. Stoner probably has better things to do because I don't remember him being hounded off.
The macho, misogynistic, ****ing material threads. Again a throw over from BM from the same "members". Good riddance
The relationship threads: sometimes I'd have loved to hear the other side of the story. People have understood what Cougar said decades ago, once you've put something into the Internet you can't get it out again. And as the active community gets smaller it gets too easy to guess who's behind the new login.
So there's not much left to talk about apart from bikes, MTBs, gravel, tents, camping, holidays, health, walking, skiing, climbing, cars, world events, stuff in the press, stuff on TV, stuff on the Net, DIY, dogs, pets, swimming, running, religion (cough), clothes, shoes, guitars, basses, cutlery, jewelery, art, canal boating, music, films... .
I'll stick around for all that for as long as I'm welcome and feel the need to sit in front of a computer. Since the demise of BM this is the only part of the Anglo-Saxon web I contribute to so thanks to you all for the inspiration.
Last rode an MTB on Friday.
I've used forums for years, for different interests and a lot of the themes, arguments and issues on this thread are common to all of them. @scotroutes' comment above struck home for me:
Maybe we need a big STW event where we can all get together, shake hands, share a few drinks and generally melt away some of the barriers.
I used to belong to a large single marque motorcycle forum, probably about the same number of members as here. Regional and national rideouts and occasional weekenders were a thing. Many real friendships developed - often amongst the least likely people who you'd never have put together because of their online persona, different backgrounds and even (god forbid) politics!
The whole nature of forum interactions improves radically, when posters have met other posters IRL, maybe even had a beer with them. I know there are plenty on here who do know each other IRL, but there are I suspect many more, me included who don't. As far as I know there are none who live locally.
I did meet @nickingsley for a gravel ride and post ride beer recently and discovered that unsurprisingly he was a great bloke and we got on well. I suspect most of you are lovely people too. Maybe a one-off STW weekender, camping in a field somewhere central and having a few sociable beers isn't such a bad idea?
I think there are multiple issues leading to a reduction in posting
Too many of us have been here too long - we have had all the debates already. take climate change - we all have as much info as we need so little to be learned on a climate change post. Opinions have been formed so no minds to change, people with strong views get frustrated with this leading to arguments
A general reduction in fora - no new recruits coming in
Technical issues - ok so its running reasonably well now but for many weeks it ran very poorly - I almost gave up on my NZ tour thread because of that. How many folk did give up?
As it gets smaller louder voices gain prominence and this can be off-putting. I know from previous similar threads folk have found my input off-putting ( Is off putting a word? Or two? or hyphenated?)
I also believe there is a conflict between what Mark and co want this place to be and what the majority of forum posters want
I have very much had my life enriched by here and would be sad to see it fail
I also believe there is a conflict between what Mark and co want this place to be and what the majority of forum posters want
and the difference is 🤔
Yep good to meet up and must do it again sometime, busy lives 🙂
My number one reason for not coming on is technical difficulties. It is such a a palaver to try and get in, open a thread, write a reply and post it that I just gave up. This is the first time I've come on for a couple of weeks. I can't think of any other site that seizes my phone.
It has been an excellent source of info for all manner of things, and I've tried to give advice freely in return (yes yes, free advice on the Internet), but there is a wide range of expertise on here, and with care you can sort the wheat from the chaff
It's also been great entertainment over the years, since 2004 for me.
Yes there are some bellends on here, we all know who they are. You don't have to read their name to know who the poster is.
Over the years, my opinions have been swayed and Changed by what I've read here. It's made me go away and research something. That's impressive.
I also believe there is a conflict between what Mark and co want this place to be and what the majority of forum posters want
and the difference is 🤔
I believe most of us want a fully functioning forum and have little interest in the rest of the site. Its the integration with the rest of the site that is the root cause of the technical issues from the little I understand. Mark and co want to be publishers. Magazines are also a disappearing market
I’m using it about 5% of the amount i used to. In fact, I’m probably going to cancel my subscription also..don’t really read the mag anymore.
The new forum it WAAAY to complicated for my little brain, runs slowly, and just frustrates me. Coupled with me kinda dumping social media, posting MUCH less about me and things I’ve done, and not really being too interested in other’s activities (!), mean SM isn’t really for me any more.
I’m spending most of my time on YouTube watching people fix stuff! Much more fun!
DrP
Anyway, what I actually came here to say is that I don't think that it is dying compared to other forums.
🤔
Something is either dying or it isn't. It doesn't really matter what others are doing.
Maybe I'll have a falling down style breakdown and call the six out by name
Looks like they are stepping forward voluntarily (or in blissful ignorance?)
I'm more interested in knowing whether anyone on here actually rides MTBs as opposed to collecting them.
Me. I'm just about to head out now for a little pootle in my happy place.
I wouldn't mind the pointless political arguing if the forum was faster.
In the olden days you could quickly open a thread. If it was interesting you could get involved, and if it was rarefied political debate, move on to something else.
But now it just feels like too much of a time commitment to open each thread in turn as it takes so long to load, and also the layout means it is often harder to read anyway.
Just easier to do something else really.
Having realised how much I despise Facebook and how important it is for independents to survive, I feel awful about not subscribing. But the most important feature to me is the Topics what I've posted on page, and until that is fixed I've witheld my sub.
Hopefully it will get sorted then I can start paying again
It's certainly the forum that brings me here. I also look at the classifieds about once a week. Only occasionally read an article, really need to be on my laptop for that and I find that I am using it the laptop less as the phone is more convenient.
I must be unusual.. I had a few technical problems posting pictures a couple of months ago but the site now works flawlessly for me, it doesn’t appear to be particularly slow but then it’s the only forum I use! I view on iPhone and iPad and make sure the latest updates are installed. I like the reviews and articles but also purchase the print magazine - I don’t know how such a small team produces such quantity and quality. - Keep it up STW!
But the most important feature to me is the Topics what I've posted on page, and until that is fixed I've witheld my sub.
Hopefully it will get sorted then I can start paying again
AFAIK it IS working again, so get yer hand in yer pocket 😉
top right icon, profile, forums, replies created. works for me anyway 🤷♂️
Just came to the site, opened this thread and now my MacBook sounds like a jet fighter at takeoff. WOn't bother to read the posts above or look at others on forum.
I see a lot of variations on 'People don't feel they can share an opinion here' which has left me scratching my head. The level of disagreement here isn't that much different to interactions I have with my real life friends. People don't expect to be able to just state any opinion they want and not have it challenged if others disagree with it. What do get togethers look like for the people who are afraid to share opinions? Does everyone just say anything that comes into their head and everyone else nods quietly and wait for their turn to state their opinion?
I've had disagreements with all my friends and arguments with most of them. Some I've fallen out with and in one or two cases that's led to us not being friends anymore but the vast majority of times you make up and things go back to normal. Back to normal but with a better understanding of each others boundaries and personalities.
One thing on here that does wind me up though is the sly sideways digs. Criticisms that start with, 'Some people on here...' can be very passive aggressive. @stumpyjon posted one of these further up but there have been numerous other examples just on this page.
Because a couple of the very people everyone is pissed off with joined the thread (and before anyone asks I'm not looking at binners or tj who whilst both can be a little verbose at times do manage to add some interests with their posts).
I really don't understand people who post stuff passive aggressively. If someone has annoyed you enough that you feel the need to comment then just name them.
In this case I'm guessing it was directed at me but I can't be 100% sure. Even if it's not directed at me I really don't think it's cool.
If someone on here says something I think is wrong I'll say why I think it's wrong. If they say something offensive I'll say so and explain why I think it's offensive. I don't know, maybe people would like me more if I started all my criticisms with, 'Some people here seem to think..' but then I really don't think it's healthy to be indirect when you're trying to point out someone else's shortcomings.
Things don't get resolved and it just leads to bad blood in the future.
a couple of the very people everyone is pissed off with joined the thread
I doubt its “everyone” or the forum would die, but any thread I see their names join, i stop reading. Wouldn’t go as far as being pissed off, just can’t be arsed.
I don't know, maybe people would like me more if I balanced out started all my criticisms with some levity
Just a thought? No passivity and definitely no aggression intended! 😉
I've been here since 2005ish, certainly pre-hack. I post occasionally but read several times a day. There are certainly fewer fun, long chatty threads than before but there's still a wealth of expertise.
I think part of the issue is that people are becoming more conditioned to either being more aggressive in online interactions, or perceiving responses in that way. Comments can be read with a positive or negative mindset and a lot of the time people seem to do the latter by default. I've been guilty of it, I've had responses to posts from people more well informed than me that I've taken personally. I have some specialist knowledge on some topics but it's rare that I'll be the most expert on anything.
Overall though - look at the quality of posts in this thread. Reasoned debate. Whole sentences. Paragraphs. Full words typed out and spelt correctly.
Now go and look at the comments on a local Facebook post...
To those still having trouble with speed/glitches I suggest trying different browsers on both Android phone and PC (I know nothing about Mac or apple). This morning I've tried four on PC - Brave, Firefox, DuckDuckgo and Edge. Brave being the best experience and Firefox doesn't work at all, it defaults to https and the forum pages are blank. I haven't tried anything other than Brave for browsing STW on the phone since I installed it. I hope this post doesn't break any forum rules, my post is aimed at helping regulars who are frustrated.
Magazines are also a disappearing market
They're not though - that was one of the things said about the internet in the early days. No-one will read newspapers / magazines any more, everything will be online...
But actually a well-crafted magazine is still very much appreciated. I think what it did do was kill off a lot of the dross and the mass-market magazines but STW, Cyclist, Rouleur etc came through and survived because not everyone wants to look at a screen with pop ups and banners and ads and AI-generated shite - people actually appreciate a good magazine with proper photos and drawings, writing from actual knowledgeable enthusiasts rather than ChatGPT.
I don't know, maybe people would like me more if I balanced out started all my criticisms with some levity
Just a thought? No passivity and definitely no aggression intended! 😉
I actually like almost everyone here. If I didn't I wouldn't come here.
However, positivity doesn't really come naturally to me so can everyone just assume that when I'm complaining about something you've just said then it is coming from someone who thinks you're alright?
Unless I just flat out call someone a ****. That's normally a pretty good sign I don't like them. Thankfully that's a very rare occurrence.
Maybe we should be given badges...
Some interesting views in here, some not so interesting, but it's all thought-provoking.
There is a thing in Internet culture called the 90-9-1 rule. Simplistically, 90% of users only consume, what we used to call "lurkers." 9% contribute. 1% contributes regularly.
My thinking is that the thing which kills a forum is a lack of contribution, not the usernames being the wrong shade of blue
This is an intriguing point, obviously very important. I'll often find myself typing out half a reply, and then thinking "nah, it's not really adding much, these lads have it all under control". So I tend more to lurking than contributing, just through the process of checking myself.
What I wonder is whether the forum's more diverse than it was. What's described above is quite cliquey - everyone knew certain names, there was banter, camaraderie etc from a relatively close knit group. Open that up, bring more people in who don't know picolax from pook, and the close knitness doesn't scale. So while the forum's got good traffic, and is a good source of insight, it doesn't feel as good as it did.
Then if maybe more of the new traffic is consumers rather than contributors, and there's a more diluted forum feel.
I wouldn't mind the pointless political arguing if the forum was faster.
In the olden days you could quickly open a thread. If it was interesting you could get involved, and if it was rarefied political debate, move on to something else.
But now it just feels like too much of a time commitment to open each thread in turn as it takes so long to load, and also the layout means it is often harder to read anyway.
Just easier to do something else really.
I always just go down the main page and open each thread in a separate tab. They've usually loaded by the time I come to look at them. On the odd occasions I've tried to use the site on a phone or tablet it's just not worth the bother.
don't post anymore because they never wanted to start an argument when expressing an opinion, but it's what they felt like it turned in to - SanctimonyTrackWorld, as my riding mates call it.
Heh. I often call it that too. I was recently accused of 'taking misanthropy to a whole new level of miserablism' for daring to suggest that a particular film was decent but not that director's best work!
Tbh I am one of the people who sees STW primarily as a forum, and am sad to see it quieten down lately. There are some people i certainly don't miss, but you generally knew which threads to avoid, and there were plenty of others!
When i became a subscriber, it was because I valued the forum and wanted to support it. I have never read (nor even seen a copy of) the magazine, but had found the forum to be a good and supportive place. So i guess that chimes with what tj said above...
I think that the "some people on here" tendency is because some users are perceived, rightly or wrongly, as having more clout than others. What that boils down to, I have no idea. Mateyness with the actual owners is not one I've heard before on other forums, but willingness to dob people in is one I see being raised on other forums as well as mods, anonymous or declared, who are also participants. The last obvious one is official tiers of membership (free or paying).
I guess it is just human nature to look for a deeper reason for perceived (or real) injustices. My own theory in life is that it can be something as mundane as someone getting out of the wrong side of bed. This is why juries, courts, appeals, review boards etc exist in the real world for serious stuff. Forums that are often modded by people for free when the owners have bigger fish to fry - not so much.
I think that the "some people on here" tendency is because some users are perceived, rightly or wrongly, as having more clout than others.
Or bigger gobs.
Mateyness with the actual owners is not one I've heard before on other forums
It’s certainly not a thing on here. People only get modded for breaking the rules, the owners don’t do mod duties.
AFAIK it IS working again, so get yer hand in yer pocket 😉
top right icon, profile, forums, replies created. works for me anyway 🤷♂️
So it looks like they have got rid of the " number of replies" bug that muddied the waters on whether it is "Replies Created" or "Topics I've posted on" .
All they need to do now is completely ditch the "Replies Created " page and replace it with something that isn't so completely and utterly pointless...
Please, please give us a page which just lists the topics we've replied to so we can actually find things of interest and continue those conversation.
Or bigger gobs.
The two are easy to conflate.
It’s certainly not a thing on here. People only get modded for breaking the rules, the owners don’t do mod duties.
Good - but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't be used as a stick to beat people with. As I said above, some people cannot accept that their own actions lead to a sanction being handed down - preferring to see bias/conspiracy etc. This is a community of sorts and it will have its own allocation of bigots, know-it-alls, snitches, grumps, wind-up merchants etc. But also its allocation of genuinely nice people, experts in certain fields, mediators etc. If we extend the logic that people who ride bikes are, on average, a bit nicer than society at large (I think so), then this will be a happy place more often than not.
🤷♂️
Just came to the site, opened this thread and now my MacBook sounds like a jet fighter at takeoff. WOn't bother to read the posts above or look at others on forum.
Mine does that with Safari, if I use Chrome it works fine.
Tried that, not well-received IMO.
Possibly, but at least it's less cowardly than cryptic comments about a secret cabal of evil-doers.
Even as a full member it's too slow to realistically be usable. 5-15 seconds to load a page, and you're never sure if a comment has actually been posted. So I don't really visit more than once every couple of days and might only post once during that time.
It’s certainly not a thing on here. People only get modded for breaking the rules, the owners don’t do mod duties.
The owners may not do the modding but I'm certain the mods are just as aware of which users are 'friends of the mag' as the rest of us, probably more so. It may not even be a conscious bias but there is no doubt in my mind binners and dazh are given a lot more leeway here to be argumentative and insulting than the rest of us.
And I'm not even against what they are dishing out. I just reckon that the rest of us should be allowed to give as good as we are getting without having our posts deleted.
There's other users who are friends of the mag who are generally very constructive and seem to go out of their way to stay positive and not slag people off at all, nevermind every other post.
Anyway, since I've started prefacing every criticism of dazh and binners with 'I know you're mates of the owners but...' I've not been getting warnings and deletions. I'm quite happy to not bring it up anymore but I think it's worth paying extra attention to how friends of the mag who seem to spend a lot of their time slagging of other users are modded because in the past it's not felt at all even handed.
In general I think the way this place is modded gets the balance about as spot on as it can be.
We are talking about this dazh, right? https://singletrackmag.com/author/dazh
And the same binners who on the previous page says he likes to go out riding with his friends who just happen to write for STW?
I don't think my posting style is particularly different towards you compared to binners and dazh. And you and me have definitely had some arguments over the years. I've never had any of my replies to you deleted or gotten warnings for them though.
Like i said earlier, apart dazh and binners any other times I've had posts deleted and gotten warnings it's been deserved. Although in my defense my posts were accurate but I accept they were against the rules. Not had that for at least a couple of years though and I don't think anyone who could really get under my skin is still here, either through giving up or getting banned. Either that or my skin has thickened up a bit.
Like I said earlier, I like almost all the regular posters on here and that includes you, dazh, and binners. It's just that we aren't in the pub and there is someone who can delete what you say to people. Sometimes it has felt that power has been applied unevenly.
I could be completely wrong, of course, but that's how it has felt at times.
It's never even occurred to me that dazh and binners (and others) might be mates with the owner when they are pissing me off fighting the same old battles with the same old lines, or displaying a lack of self awareness when they are criticising those who do the same. And for when I'm pissing you all of,f I'm not mates with any of the owners and the only time I met Chipps he blanked me (he may have been hungover).
What I would say is that the BruceWee who is posting recently sounds a lot more angry and "lashing out" than I remember them in the past. When I start to appear like that, I like to take a couple of days or weeks away from posting to get my head and priorities straight again. This isn't meant to sound "R U OK hun?" but a genuine "something is making your posts come across differently" and I do hope that you - and a few others on here - can maybe chill a little or resist the urge to post in haste. Maybe just have a Snickers, I don't know.