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We've been hearing this for a few years, on and off, and it's being repeated again in the thread on technical issues. I was wondering what topics and threads folk think have reduced since the (apparent) heyday.
I have a suspicion that a couple of the ongoing photo threads might have reduced the one-off "see where I was riding today" threads. On the Chat side, the sensible foldering of politics topics has certainly reduced the number of threads I (mostly) choose to skip by. I'm also seeing fewer duplicate threads, but maybe that's just because things are scrolling off the font page less quickly (sort of chicken and egg thing going on there).
Are there fewer technical bike threads? Things like Dropper posts and Tubeless setups used to appear more regularly until both became almost ubiquitous.
Any more thoughts?
I remember a time when a thread would drop off the front page if there was no reply within an hour or two. Now it can stay there for a day or more.
Technical threads still exist, just in different platforms. MTBR for example, it pretty good for a technical discussion even if the rate of comments is pretty slow.
The snarky, negativity and general ****erness of most responses puts me off posting (I type replies sometimes, then just hit the back button without sending) and you can see by the number of “read” posts v the number of actual replies that that is probably the case for a lot of people. I think some people’s mindset is well, I’m on STW, I guess I am supposed to be a prick about this. Post way less than I used to (in my former forum name). And once a certain 4 letter username member has posted once of his essays, its hardly worth responding cos he’s clearly always right. Anyway, what with most of the regular posters drifting away, its just got less and less active as a place to chat.
Would be interested to see if members are posting more on other forums, or if it's more to do with people quiet quitting the internet / social media in general.
I think forums in general are less popular than they were at one time. I use half a dozen or so forums are they are all quieter than they were. Older users leave, younger using different platforms - facebook, instagram , etc.
I skim through the first page of the forum a few times a day. Occasionally I'll reply, more likely I'll give a thumbs up. But of takes so long in internet time to to see the thumb respond or to go back a page that I end up going back 2 pages in error, then I head off to the local paper to see if there is anything exciting happening.
Looking forward to the faster page loads 🚴 and quick thumbs up 👍
I'm not posting anywhere else, but spending a bit more time watching video reviews of bike stuff on the web.
It’s felt a lot quieter since the refresh happened, but that’s happened to every single forum I’ve ever used over the last 25 years so I was expecting it. Traffic almost always dies off after someone changes the look and feel of a forum and generally it never returns.
Besides it’s just much easier to get technical advice elsewhere now which didn’t used to be the case when forums were more popular.
For me, it's a case of using the Internet a bit less. There was a time that I'd sit all night on this forum, nowadays I check in a few times a day for about 10 mins.
Although very interested in politics, I avoid the politics threads here as they are dominated by tedious voices.
Thinking about it, I'm guilty of not starting many threads any more, so I'm not going to complain about the traffic or lack of.
Edit. Half of my reply was cut off for some reason. I went on to say that I'll.always be a subscriber as this place has been good for me over the years, and it's my only form of social media (apart from my Chumbawamba fan insta account, but not sure that counts 😂)
It's a lot more toxic and less humourous than it used to be.
This and just a godawful website to use now, actually just noticed I can finally view the forum on my phone after being blocked by an advert blocking the cookies for around a week.
yep I’ve sacked off my subscription (I was in the 502 club with high hopes).
It's a lot more toxic and less humourous than it used to be.
I think the opposite. I think it misses some of the stupid threads
It misses the unique feeling (presentation) that the forum used to have
It’s not encouraging ‘free’ members, coupled in with constant breaks and stupidly slow forum
Finally it’s the fact the owners are doing nothing to encourage are younger audience. It’s full of middle aged men getting older
Just out of curiosity , how’s the women’s forum doing ?
It’s slowly dying, fewer posts for sure and the classifieds incomparable to a few years ago. Out riding last night I was pondering the lack of similar local riders to myself - wrong side of 40, riding xc/trail. Many seem to have moved to e-bikes and/or gravel. Maybe there’s a parallel with the (bike) forum.
I'm on 6 forums - SingleTrack is the most depressing place of all if them . Ideologues ruined things.
Although very interested in politics, I avoid the politics threads here as they are dominated by tedious voices.
This.
I am to old for here, not interested in long low slack bikes, not interested in clothing for women or for tall skinny beanpoles. I am also fed up with being told I am to old to drive and what car for spirited driving.
I am considering my position.
Testing to see if posting let's me see Bruce's post
Isn't that just life in general though? It's like complaining that the MTB weekends you used to do with your mates have dropped way off but then you look around and people have families, commitments etc that they didn't have all those years ago...
Out riding last night I was pondering the lack of similar local riders to myself - wrong side of 40, riding xc/trail. Many seem to have moved to e-bikes and/or gravel. Maybe there’s a parallel with the (bike) forum.
That's the argument that has been swilling around the road racing ranks for about the last 15-20 years (possibly more!) as well; the decline of "the traditional cycling club", everyone has gone off to ride Sportives / race themselves on Strava...
I scarcely post since the refresh. The box I'm typing in is about 15mm high, and it's half covered with a message about not attaching files. As soon as I get onto a second line of typing, it's obscured. Basically unuseable (Mac OS11.7.1, Chrome, desktop).
Also, what everyone else said about the six or so posters who persist in stomping all over most threads with their sixth form politics.
I think everyone's getting arthritic hands and can't type as fast these days.
I blame the ubiquity of free porn.
I blame the ubiquity of free porn.
That's not fair I cn stil ty
Only 6 posters doing their political willy waving? That's a huge improvement.
But yeah, not willing to pay for this now. I can only reply on my phone, as I'm still logged in. Desktop won't let me, and I have to open threads by way of right click open in new tab.
Certainly in my case (51) it's not competition from other places, I don't use any other forum, nor Facebook/Instagram etc. It's just stupidly user unfriendly. It's a shame - I'd much rather ask a dumb tubeless related question on here than on one of the Reddit subs, get a ton of wrong advice, insulted, then end up on r/bicyclecirclejerk
Actually, that does sound familiar. An image of a bloke and his track pump with spaff all over his sandals comes to mind .
Thought it was me, work has been a lot busier for the last year and my tolerance for self important posters who seem to live on here has reduced. Forum is still slow when using which means I think twice about clicking stuff. I scroll the main page but there seem to be less threads that interest me. I liked the politics threads and would credit STW with moving my views leftwards by making me think a bit harder. It's having the opposite affect these days, the constant venim spouted by the usual six or so is driving me back the otherway. Anyone to the right of Karl Marx is automatically lumped in with Reform and constantly targeted with bullying language. Any push back is greeted with a six person pile on. Even stopping posting results in where have all the non leftwing loons gone. The sad thing is I'm not sure the six even know who they are.
I've been a subscriber for over 15 years and donated a few times. If it wasn't for me missing my recent renewal (which seemed to have gone up a lot for digital) I'd probably cancel it.
Maybe I'll have a falling down style breakdown and call the six out by name for their toxicity and get banned, feeling a bit like a win / win at the moment.
The STW forum is unique among the forums I use, in that every other forum tells me if someone has quoted my post and then replied.
This place is like when the BBC opens up comments on certain articles, you can post, but then have to manually search for your entry later on if you want to see if anyone replied to you.
Not knowing what toxic replies you've had can be a good thing, but it's downright archaic, in this day and age.
I blame WCA for not spamming the forum with B qke Bike Bash stealth adverts.
Also, down to just one "Are you bored enough to watch..." thread.
The general drop in traffic might be down to a lack of new members and long termers either getting bored/frustrated with the forum, or just dying. It would be interesting to see the number of new joined over each Quarter for the last few year, plus the number of accounts that didn't post at all during each quarter.
The STW forum is unique among the forums I use, in that every other forum tells me if someone has quoted my post and then replied.
This place is like when the BBC opens up comments on certain articles, you can post, but then have to manually search for your entry later on if you want to see if anyone replied to you.
Not knowing what toxic replies you've had can be a good thing, but it's downright archaic, in this day and age.
if only there was away to switch on notifications.
I scarcely post since the refresh. The box I'm typing in is about 15mm high, and it's half covered with a message about not attaching files. As soon as I get onto a second line of typing, it's obscured. Basically unuseable (Mac OS11.7.1, Chrome, desktop).
There's a control at the bottom right of the text input window. Click and drag it to mak eth etext window as big as you like.
Oooh! So there is.
I’ve not seen that on any other forum.
I blame e-bikes. Really. No one starting mtb wants an analogue bike anymore. It’s a different sport now, and not as good. Bikes are too good, too expensive. It’s not the forum that’s dying it’s the sport.
if only there was away to switch on notifications.
You see this doesn't help.
You could have written "When you post, there is a box under the reply box which you can tick to get notifications when someone has replied. " Instead there's a snarky response that just makes people think bollocks to this place.
I think 20 years ago MTB's were new, every week there was a new bonkers suspension design that got us all chatting, no-one knew how to do anything or what worked with what and that generated discussion. Then we had the 29er debate followed by the 27.5 debate with droppers and tubeless pros and cons. Now bikes are all pretty much the same and they all work brilliantly, what is there to discuss.
So:
Bikes - nothing to discuss
Politics - as above, tediously dominated by the same dull people.
Destinations - we all know where to go now, there's nowhere new to be discovered.
You can only have so many car/garden/neighbours/work dispute threads.
I've been here since the start and I'll be gutted if it dies, but I think it's inevitable.
I liked the politics threads and would credit STW with moving my views leftwards by making me think a bit harder. It's having the opposite affect these days, the constant venim spouted by the usual six or so is driving me back the otherway. Anyone to the right of Karl Marx is automatically lumped in with Reform and constantly targeted with bullying language. Any push back is greeted with a six person pile on. Even stopping posting results in where have all the non leftwing loons gone. The sad thing is I'm not sure the six even know who they are.
This.
But this...
I blame e-bikes. Really.
...is part of the problem. Get over it already FFS.
I think 20 years ago MTB's were new
20 years ago, MTBs had been around for more than 20 years. The raging debates were:
Disk brakes: A solution looking for a problem?
Suspension: A solution looking for a problem?
Dropper posts: A solution looking for a problem? (To be fair, back then, the GravityDropper was the only game in town and wasn't particularly great compared to modern droppers.)
Tubeless tyres: A solution looking for a problem?
I think there's just so many sources of tension between people on the internet, that we're all just slowly loosing interest in attempting to communicate with each other online. It's not this forum, it's the internet, the novelty has worn off. Large numbers of forums didn't make it this far.
FFS.
also part of the problem 😆
id definitely say younger people just don't use forums so much
I've been here since the start and I'll be gutted if it dies, but I think it's inevitable.
There's still half a million people coming to the site every month. And while I get that there's issues with the forum that we still need to work through, to be fair the posts that the forum is dying have been a regular topic for over 20 years. I'm not being complacent but there's a lot to be optimistic about the future of Singletrack. Right now as I type there are 604 people active across the site. 458 from the UK, 43 from the US and the rest from other countries. It's Saturday and this is the quietest day of the week for the site. Typically on a monday evening around 9pm we'll see well over 1000 people actively viewing pages across the site - daily figures are typically 20k+ people on the site. I'm not saying nothing is wrong and all is hunkdory.. It really isn't. It's never been harder than right now to keep a niche media company afloat but there's still a lot to be optimistic about the future. There are very few forums left that are run by media companies now - certainly a lot less than several years ago. MBR closed theirs around GDPR time and BikeRadar shut all theirs down in March of this year. Road.cc is going strong but everyone in this space is struggling and we are doing our absolute best to keep going. You all know how hard it is for the team here and you all know our limitations - Your support has always been appreciated and I don't take that for granted for a second - But... please be patient. The forum is a vital part of what we are and we know how important it is to many of you. There is no complacency at our side and every day we look to make improvements. A forum of 10 million posts is massive. It's a battle everyday to keep that going and especially so alongside a full magazine membership system. The two are intrinsic to each other and they cannot be separated. One cannot exist without the other now. We work every day (7 days/week) to keep improving it.
And we do listen to what you have to say - always and we try and act on it as best we can.
Is the forum dying? IMHO no it isn't. Is it different to how it was? Most certainly. Forums are changing everywhere. How people interact with websites is constantly changing and Singletrack is constantly changing too. That's why we are still here a quarter of a century since we started.
We'll keep at it for as long as we can doing the best we can. It's what we've always done.
You see this doesn't help.
Fair point I forget my humour doesn’t always work.
That’s the box.
Back to the topic.
Very much part of the problem as mentioned before is the growth of platforms like facebook, then there’s people move on elsewhere so the little friendship groups change. And of course there’s the ones who have to be heard on every post constantly, which puts pressure off.
Stumpyjon has nailed it.
These types of comments aren't exactly encouraging of participation. Maybe it's just me but I see "this one person said something of value, all the other responses were worthless". Okay then, bye nice chat!
I notice I only come on here to post now with VERY SPECIFIC issues that probably very few people care or know about, so generally not contributing much to the lively/interesting side of things.
I was committed to trying to do more ride reports but these days when I'm riding I'm less inclined to mess about taking photos etc. and the photos I do take (usually just fumbling the GoPro from the back pocket and taking 4 or 5 snaps on the move, hoping 1 or 2 come out) aren't always very good and often not trip report worthy. Plus I get an occasional twinge of guilt posting about gravel so much given that there are probably a few MTBers still on the forum 🤣
Posting about politics here or anywhere else just seems to futile these days, it might be worth it for a vent but otherwise most topics can be reduced to 'look at this politician, what an arse'. Same reason I cancelled my Private Eye subscription, there were only so many reminders I needed of how corrupt so many politicians/councils/people(!) can be.
Naaah. It's the forum hamster that's dead/ dying - struggling to drag itself off its little cushion and fire up the wheel when you want to post a response/ check a thread/ open up the forum.
Although I will say the forum threads do ebb and flow; the last couple of weeks there's been less of interest to me, but I think it's seasonal. People away on holiday/ outdoors/ not stuck inside griping on the internet
wrong side of 50 here and riding xc/trail - trying to keep up with the ebikes is excellent for fitness.Out riding last night I was pondering the lack of similar local riders to myself - wrong side of 40, riding xc/trail. Many seem to have moved to e-bikes and/or gravel.
The sad thing is I'm not sure the six even know who they are.
Oh I bet they do. and they probably revel in the fame.
The slowness puts me off. I just don't have the attention span to wait that long to load...and then post....and...refresh....
Much slower than other forums.
I know how hard it is to make computers go faster but I think STW needs to get to grips with the performance or die trying.
I think there's just so many sources of tension between people on the internet
No there are not! 😝
Just out of curiosity , how’s the women’s forum doing ?
Good question. Given the main forum is pretty quiet I'm assuming its tumbleweed.
Some of the more interesting (and by that I mean funny and entertaining or just well informed, rather that just oddball) users seem to have drifted away.
STW was always considered a bit of a malecentric equivalent to mumsnet - is that slowly dying too?
id definitely say younger people just don't use forums so much
There must be people out there who aspire to be a whiney middle class cockbag. Maybe we need better advertising to find our people and bring them here? 😉
The forum is just having a rest? During covid it was a very pleasant place to be, nice and gentle and then since then it has occasionally become unpleasant. I wrote what I thought was a humorous account of our Narrowboat holiday and in the first few replies were some very unpleasant comments about the length and the lack of paragraphs, these were countered by some very nice comments so I concentrated on the positives… Just this morning I’ve received some very helpful advice to help me fix some railings. I enjoy all the threads, even the political ones as it does me good to appreciate the viewpoints of others! Onwards and upwards..
@Mark Thank you.
I'll qualify my comment by saying I think it's inevitable it'll die at some point this millennia 🙂
I owe this forum a huge amount. From the friends I've made in real life from meeting them here first, to the knowledge that has been passed on which eventually lead to me getting work as a bike mechanic and the fabulous places I've ridden which I wouldn't have known about if it wasn't for this site. Away from bikes the support I've had from most at very difficult times means I'm still here when who knows what would have happened if it hadn't been here.
I really hope you can continue to keep the lights on. What you do is greatly appreciated by some of us at least!
Stumpyjon has nailed it.
Makes several fair points, and I may even be in the Group of Six, I'm not sure.
Forums have changed in the 20 years I've been on here. Things not being what they were does not necessarily mean the forum is dying, just evolving. A lot of the tech stuff is now covered by manufacturers or others on YouTube. There's still a lot of posts asking for recommendations, still some funny/quirky stuff as well. My changing political and social views have certainly been shaped by what I've engaged with on here, supporting what I've seen more locally in real life.
I still feel a real sense of community here - for all the increasing shithousery, if someone needs support, it's there for them. Not sure if newer members feel that way or not, and that would be a real loss if it went.
The arrival of Facebook/Twitter/X etc has seen a real change in discussions on here, which I see mirrored by younger people at work as well - everything is much more "either/or", there is less understanding of nuance of the various shades of grey in an argument.
Edited to add - genuinely curious if the women only forum is doing well compared to the general forum. The problem might be too much testosterone!
I used to be a regularly poster, for me the constant ads, slow / buggy forum (for years...) and a few posters who I find incredibly rude have put me off bothering to add any content for sometime. I pop my head back in maybe once ot twice a day read a few threads but rarely can be bothered to post anymore, maybe once a week when it used to be all the time. it's a shame I did used to really like this place.
you should implement a timeout button that your users can use. someone gets 10 strikes from users for being a tedious argumentative shit they get a few days ban from posting
I've migrated to reddit and Facebook mostly. there are also tedious argumentative shits on there too, but at least it's not the same handful people wrecking threads constantly like they have done for years. the only choice is to vote with your feet.
I still feel a real sense of community here - for all the increasing shithousery, if someone needs support, it's there for them. Not sure if newer members feel that way or not, and that would be a real loss if it went.
MCTD has nailed it. At the end of the day the day we're mtb'ers and if one needed help, even someone who is completely wrong from a political point of view 🙂 , I know I'd be doing what I could for them.
you should implement a timeout button that your users can use. someone gets 10 strikes from users for being a tedious argumentative shit they get a few days ban from posting
Could you imagine the moaning that would induce? The same faces would then cry about pile-ons and bullying.
There's a control at the bottom right of the text input window. Click and drag it to mak eth etext window as big as you like.
Ooh, so there is! Thanks @Mark. I can see what I'm typing again 😀
Forums are changing everywhere
Funny, this forum certainly has changed (for the better in this particular respect, although it may be something that has driven people away) - I’m talking about the blokeyness! I searched for something/someone the other day and in the results was an actress’ name as the subject of a thread on here.. out of curiosity I had a quick read, omg. the cringe! But the usernames saying “ug ug I would” - Junkyard, The Southern Yeti, philconsequence etc, all gone. And though the sexist “bants” was quite shite, they did make it a laugh on other themes.
There's a control at the bottom right of the text input window. Click and drag it to mak eth etext window as big as you like.
Great tip, thanks.
I'm probably one of the Magnificent Six and could probably name a few of the others. One has a face I'd never tire of slapping.
There is a thing in Internet culture called the 90-9-1 rule. Simplistically, 90% of users only consume, what we used to call "lurkers." 9% contribute. 1% contributes regularly.
My thinking is that the thing which kills a forum is a lack of contribution, not the usernames being the wrong shade of blue. So I try to help in tech threads, I butt heads in political threads, and so forth. If people aren't creating content - even if it's content you don't like and that's often the best way of driving traffic - then the forum is ****ed. And that would be a sad day indeed.
Also,
As I and others have already said, it's sunny. Mark is obviously best placed to give a canonical answer here, but I'd expect all forums (especially outdoor pursuits forums) to see a drop-off over summer.
out of curiosity I had a quick read, omg. the cringe!
Friday Kylie seems a long time ago.
Society has moved on a bit...but I reckon average age has moved on 15+ years too. Testosterone levels have no doubt plummeted and the average user is less interesting in pert bums and more interested in a hot chocolate before a nice early night.
also part of the problem 😆
You don't like fish finger sandwiches? Then I'm afraid to say we can't be friends...
I'm probably one of the Magnificent Six
Also absolutely not in my book.
The friday kylie and other such threads were appalling back then. quite honestly I was astonished they were allowed.
There was definitely a point when, I dunno, maybe enough of us matured at the same time, and Friday Kylie and some of the other now unacceptable threads, lost their appeal and eventually either withered away or got mod-ed out.
I think a couple of us pointing out how 1950s it was and posting ugly pictures may have done something 🙂
May I suggest a new Friday thread? ... The Friday Keighley
I remember Octoporn. I am not sure it made sense though.
😂 ^ octoporn was the one thing I made up. I can't remember the exact etymology, but I do remember it was in response to a comment Flashy made. I was so proud of it that for a time, it was on my CV.
I think there are some valid reasons why STW is not as busy as it was a few years ago. Insta/FB/TikToc is far more interactive and forums are quite old fashioned nowadays to be honest. Exacerbating the demise will be the bans/suspensions handed out for a person having a different opinion to that jerk again or another of the infamous 6 .. older forum users will simply stop posting replies and newer users are more likely using the insta/FB/TikTok anyway.
I haven’t posted in a long time (mostly due to being dumped on by forum users for absolutely no reason). When I was first using this forum you could ask questions and more than likely get an appropriate answer and the depth of knowledge was astounding sometimes!. Then something changed and I experienced what was verging on bullying ( from what was at the time a moderator!). They had absolutely no context to respond to so decided that putting the boot in was the best response. I dropped off after that but sometime later tried to as a question and again got jumped on, I gave up after that. I still look in from time to time but no one I ride with comes on here at all now. I will say that I don’t think the above are the main reasons for a perceived slow down but for me it is not a pleasant place unless you are “big hitter”.
It's not just the forum though, the site as a whole ( and the mag ) are just not very interesting.
you should implement a timeout button that your users can use. someone gets 10 strikes from users for being a tedious argumentative shit they get a few days ban from posting
IIRC someone once got a lifetime ban for this very reason.
Personally, I'd just add a Block User function. If enough folk used it on the same person they'd soon find themselves shouting into an empty room (not like that would stop them 😉)
It wasn’t Kylie btw, as far as I recall that was just a bunch of photos posted
As a somewhat irregular poster, I find the threads and discussions quite interesting - certainly better than most forums - but find the forum tech/performance/lagginess/ads a major source of annoyance - especially on mobile - and so don't really post as much. Not sure what every other forum (pink bike, vitalmtb, overclockers, head-fi etc. that I use) is doing differently? They all just seem to...work.
I guess it was inevitable that many folk would cite technical issues as a reason for not posting/visiting so much, but only a handful have suggested topics that no longer appear (or appear as often). some chime with my own thoughts; everyone is a content creator these days so YouTube is full of tech stuff, ride reports, travels suggestions and so on.
I'll throw in another suggestion though - did there seem to be more "banter" in the past? Sarcasm and criticism were just part of the feel of the forum. I guess it helped that I knew more of the regulars back then too and so could engage in that sort of fun without necessarily causing offence. As I once discussed with Junkyard (remember him?) my golden rule was (and still is) to read stuff as if it was intended in the best of spirit. Maybe the general level of online toxicity suggested above prevents that being the case these days.
Maybe we need a big STW event where we can all get together, shake hands, share a few drinks and generally melt away some of the barriers.
This thread is equally a depressing read as the one I created last year about the decline in rider numbers at the MTB Marathon in Ruthin. The two might be related.
On a positive note, there's more people out on mtbs now in my area than I've ever seen (Strava heatmaps concentrating usage maybe?), all the yoof are on normal bikes (if you can describe 12yr olds on a Santa Cruz's as normal?) and the older crew are on e's (like they were in the 90's), so there's a big available audience out there for online bike discussions.