[Closed] The F1 2015 thread...

I think the very complex [s]engines[/s] powertrain and the very restricted testing is a bad combination.

The distribution of money could be done a lot better as well, if they want to increase competition.

Lewis looked genuinely shocked when he saw Arni walk out onto the podium, then came out with "I thought you where taller" (how to win friends and influence people). 😛

More toys leaving the pram
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/16/red-bull-could-contemplate-f1-exit?

^ lost any shred of support or respect I'd ever have for them.

They ruled the roost for 4yrs. They had a good run last year too and as soon as they aren't dominant they threaten to leave to make sure its tilted towards them?

Don't all F1 teams claim that? 🙂

Horner and Bernie are thick as thieves. They'll be orchestrating this together to try and get the FIA to change the rules. I can't see Merc or Ferrari (now they seem to be back on track) bending over and letting RB get away with this.

Horner, whose team won four drivers’ and four constructors’ championships between 2010 and 2013

Yes its awful when a team dominate.... though apparently only when its not your team.

To be fair to RB, all of McL, Williams and Ferrari have had at least one period of dominance and when it was them they fought any attempts to level the field and also complained when other teams dominated. It's just part of the game IMO.

Red Bull gives you WHINGE

APPLAUDS 😆

They want everybody to have the same power output, well they should move to a different Formula. If all the engines were essentially the same I think I would stop watching it. Part of the lure for me is that the cars are different, thats what makes it interesting. I was annoyed when we lost a tyre manufacturer. It is about the driver, the PU, the chassis and the aero. If any one of these were common between the teams then it would get increasingly boring.

I am not a fan of one team dominating or rules changing all the time to restrict things. I think there should be some basic rules regarding safety and the size of the engine and thats it. I think it would be much more interesting if the cars looked totally different and different engine manufacturers chose different engine layouts. Imagine if we had the craziness of a fwd car like Nissans LMP1, imagine if the likes of the Tyrrell 6 wheeler and the Brabham fan car were still about.

[quote=I_Ache ]imagine if the likes of the Tyrrell 6 wheeler and the Brabham fan car were still about.

The Brabham sucked

To be fair to RB, all of McL, Williams and Ferrari have had at least one period of dominance and when it was them they fought any attempts to level the field and also complained when other teams dominated. It's just part of the game IMO.

Agree but to say you'll review and potentially look to leave after years of enjoying dominance and success after just one race to try and get your own way using blackmail?

Redbull always left a badtaste in my mouth.

Ferrari too then, presumably...

McL and Williams don't really have the leaving F1 option. Though McL's current corporate direction could theoretically change that but I don't see that happening for a long time.

If any one of these were common between the teams then it would get increasingly boring.

I disagree this year is going to be pretty tedious for the reasons you like

Its also a joke of a sport as all you ever know is who has the best car and who the best driver in that team is.
Who is best - Vettel? Alonso? Hamilton we dont know as the one of them in the fastest car wins.

Who is best - Vettel? Alonso? Hamilton

I'll let you know at the end of this season.

lets not forget a green rookie beat a 2-time world champion at the top of his game and considered the most complete driver.

Lewis has had his wilderness years but that raw misfiring title has matured. Most drivers (IMO) have a short talent window. Hes got a huge amount of still raw talent.

Vettels good- never thought he wasn't and hence why before he even won a title he was called mini-Schumacher. A title he said put too much pressure on him!

imagine if the likes of the Tyrrell 6 wheeler and the Brabham fan car were still about.

But in those days nearly all the cars ran the same engine. The Ferrari had a Ferrari engine, virtually everyone else ran a Ford DFV.

But the rule book was a lot slimmer. imagine if the likes of the Tyrrell 6 wheeler and the Brabham fan car were still about. Nearly all the artistry and ingenuity has been literally ruled out.

I think the fuel should be reduced, but the maximum flow (and so power) can be increased. But at a cost.

At the end of a race when the tanks near empty and the power wound right back, even Marussia could coem galloping to the front.

Sod that. Increase fuel, bring back mid-race refuelling, engines all turned up to 100% and lets see some proper demonstrations of what the cars can do, none of this "nursing cars round" to protect tyres/fuel loads.

Trying to reduce cost and improve the green credentials in F1 by tackling things like fuel use is a ridiculous exercise IMO!

Some of the cars were not filling their tanks completely last year at some races so they've already got to a point where fuel isn't limiting them at least some of the time. The new rules are driving innovation in car design which IMO is what F1 should be doing.

Nursing cars around has always been part of F1 and almost certainly always will be.

Trying to reduce cost and improve the green credentials in F1 by tackling things like fuel use is a ridiculous exercise IMO!

Hardly they are prototyping and demonstrating some of the most advanced energy efficiency technologies which will have a direct application in road cars.

The Brabham sucked

I got it aracer.

Bring back re-fuelling, but at a horribly slow rate and make the fuel tank a mandatory size small enough that you can make it without re-fuelling but only if you back off to conserve fuel.

And adjust the fuelling rate of there's a safety car so that the safety car advantage of fuel saving is negated by a faster re-fuel rate.

Nothing better than a fast car/driver trying to catch a slower one late in the race.

I also laughed at the sucking Brabham 🙂

dull race, made cringeworthy at the end by the "Bantz" with Arnie.

I'm all for exploiting the rules to the max, that's what it's about, and Merc have done an amazing job, but they all forget that it's supposed to be entertainment at their peril. Nascar will and does clip the wings (no red bull pun intended) of any team that finds a loophole or starts to pull away from the rest. The teams know it, the fans know it, and it's still wildly popular.

13 cars on the grid, some of them going around very slowly indeed isn't F1, and should be a cause for concern for all invloved.

Oh, forgot:

I was also going to say, If a respected motor sport engine manufacturers like Honda and Renault are that far of the pace because the engines and associated power trains are so vastly complex, then you've written the rules wrong IMO

It's rather silly judging off one race - like Bernie and Di Montezemolo last year right before one of the best races for ages.

Renault may be respected but you clearly don't understand part of the reason behind why Renault are struggling so much in the current era.

Renault farmed out KERS to the teams and had no expertise in that area. As such, with the new engines where you can't separate the parts of the PU like that, they're still playing catch up.

Not to mention that if they're well respected, right now that doesn't look very well placed if they've come up with an engine that's worse than last year's (if RB are to be believed and that is a big if...).

Changing to hybrid was always going to be difficult as it's new technology - at F1 level at least - but it'll pay dividends which again, is exactly what F1 should be IMO. Right now they're 'vastly complex' because they're still new to it but that'll change - just look at engine (PU) changes - at the start of last year it was taking half a day. Now it's down to three hours or so. Similarly, the engines will level out as the designs and concepts get shared as people move teams (see Bob Bell is now working for Renault).

we all seem to forget that it is now only a show.. its not a sport / competition. Its an advertising board that goes around 50 or so laps.

I rather enjoyed the formula E .. admittedly 3/4 of the grid were ex f1 drivers but at least the result wasnt determined at the first corner and the winner wasnt the p1-3 on the grid. The race unfolds which adds to the excitement.

nemisis, I hope you're right, and it's probably wrong to judge from just one race, but it needs to get an awful lot better than Sunday's peformance!

Too right but every year has boring races and even Sunday was a million miles from many of the snoozefests of the early 2000s.

[quote=Trimix ]I also laughed at the sucking Brabham

Was actually a metaphorical as well as literal point - I was going to suggest that it was bad for F1, but that was the word which sprang to mind and I couldn't resist the pun. Fun as a novelty, but does anybody think an arms race of assisted downforce would have made exciting racing?

It's an interesting question - on the one hand, the cars would have been massively less affected by following another car which in theory would lead to better racing but the issue of pebbles, etc being fired out of the back of the cars would have been hard to solve and eventually I think we'd have got to a point where drivers would need g-suits to cope with the forces the cars would have generated.

Not to mention that it has absolutely no relevance to road cars...

Rear cannoned Brabham
[img] [/img]

Well you need them to be able to overtake each other. So you need less down force and braking that takes longer to slow the car down.

DRS has turned out to be a good thing in the end.

Also anything that adds strategy make it more interesting, so different compound tyres will do that. Will conserving fuel do the same thing ?

McLaren chassis is not that bad at all. Perez is on the better line and half a car length going into the corner yet Button exits the corner faster and ahead despite being off line.

That's what DC said, wasn't it - Perez got surprised by how late JB could brake into the corner and had clearly expected to be ahead

[i]Rear cannoned Brabham[/i]

😆

The thing is, we don't need things making into a level playing field - Look at the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_Grand_Prix ]A1 Grand Prix[/url]. I initially thought it would be a really interesting approach but boy was it boring - there needs to be different cars with different capabilities (some better on certain tracks, others at different circuits). Yes, Mercedes do have a huge advantage at the moment but I don't see that there is anything to be gained by throttling their development just to help other teams catch up.

And is it just me or do the engines sound really odd this season? I quite liked the whine of last year's engine but they sounded all over the place at Melbourne.

Just watched 'Racing Legends' on BBC 2. Amazing!! I never really knew much about John Surtees- he always seems to be the British champ that gets overlooked for some reason, but the man is clearly a legend. Great stuff!

The problem with "johnny come lately" outfits like RB is that it's just a marketing scheme. They get tied into a shit engine package then if the results don't come, the marketing doesn't work and they'll run away - or threaten to unless things change to suit them.

There have always been lean periods for teams in F1 but the committed racers work hard at it nonetheless until fortunes turn around. Yes Williams, you.

fr0sty125 - Member

McLaren chassis is not that bad at all. Perez is on the better line and half a car length going into the corner yet Button exits the corner faster and ahead despite being off line.

For me this was about the only excitement in the whole race and shows the promise of the McHonda

[i]The problem with "johnny come lately" outfits like RB[/i]

they've been about in various guises since 1997, when do they stop being "johnny come lately"?

At slowoldman I've worked for Williams for 15 years so been aware of the gentle decline since BMW so nice to be performing again race strategy aside

So, is Ron right that only a works team can win the World Championships?

[url= http://maldonadocrashingintothings.tumblr.com/?og=1 ]Have we done Pastor crashing into things?[/url]

they've been about in various guises since 1997, when do they stop being "johnny come lately"?

I've worked for Williams for 15 years so been aware of the gentle decline since BMW so nice to be performing again race strategy aside

Pastor crashing into things is a given...

[quote=nickc ]

The problem with "johnny come lately" outfits like RB

If you're using that argument, why don't you go back to 1985?

I'm not sure a huge amount of Stewart/Jaguar DNA remained by 2006.

I think we did this one before, but it's worth repeating

http://hasmaldonadocrashedtoday.com/

aracer, cos Stewart racing wasn't an F1 team till then...Maybe a bit arbitrary I suppose?

love the hasmaldanadocrashedtoday countdown 😆

Minardi was though

Er, Eddie Irvine fourth?!?!

[url= http://www.pitpass.com/53480/Wealth-intelligence-company-reveals-richest-F1-drivers ]Top ten richest F1 drivers[/url]

Er, Eddie Irvine fourth?!?!

He's a canny business man and never apologised for being in F1 just for the money. He even stayed racing in Japan because they paid better than F1 teams!

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31930827 ]The German Grand Prix not looking likely then [/url]

I think we did this one before, but it's worth repeating

http://hasmaldonadocrashedtoday.com/

Brilliant!

Looks like Giedo van der Garde got his money back and compensation. They reckon that Esteban Gutiérrez is next up for his money. It's a little mental that they signed race contracts for 2015 with FIVE drivers and took money from at least 4 of them without ever imagining they'd have to pay back the money.

the-muffin-man - Member
Er, Eddie Irvine fourth?!?!
He's a canny business man and never apologised for being in F1 just for the money. He even stayed racing in Japan because they paid better than F1 teams!

He also invested his money and built a multi national property empire.

I like this one though 😀 [url= http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/news/article/669/9763658/bob-fernley-welcomes-christian-horners-demands-for-change ]Bob Fernley of Force India welcomes Horner "to the real world"[/url]

It is pretty funny that Red Bull are whinging that they're basically not dominant any more. Yes, they weren't AS dominant as Mercedes are currently but if they want parity they should do something else.

He also invested his money and built a multi national property empire.

It's a little mental that they signed race contracts for 2015 with FIVE drivers and took money from at least 4 of them without ever imagining they'd have to pay back the money.

Cashflow - I reckon they did what they needed to to stay afloat last year...

FIVE?

I thought it was worrying that they'd signed three for two seats and took money from all three. Shows they really are grasping/grabbing for cashflow with no thought to mid-term comeback.

I thought it was worrying that they'd signed three for two seats

Supposedly, they signed van der Garde, Sutil, Gutiérrez, Ericsson and Nasr for the seats. I'd guess given Sutil is quiet that he'd not paid for the seat yet.

Cashflow - I reckon they did what they needed to to stay afloat last year...

That's understandable. The stupidity to expect it wouldn't come back on them is inexcusable though. If I was a Sauber shareholder, Monisha Kaltenborn would be on her way out for such a spectacular lack of awareness. I can only suppose that in the past teams have ridden roughshod over drivers and that van der Garde took everyone by surprise. It'd explain why he's saying his F1 career is now over.

I rewatched the race last night on some beeb channel.

It was just like almost every race over the past 5+years.

The only difference is the engines are starting to sound like they are powered by rubberbands.

I guessed then- they are going to keep going until they have a 1.0 petrol engine aren't they. Thats the 'pinnacle' of F1/engineering.

A 1.0 petrol engine with a huge hybrid I bet by 2025.

Whoopie-doo.

Bring back V12's - its racing not a race to mpg.

Perhaps they did expect it to come back on them, and just accepted the cost implications (as in get 8million now, pay 10-12million back in the spring) in order to keep the team afloat for the last 6/9/whatever months? Poor form if they did.

Nice looking car though- like the colours 🙂

Very easy to recreate in Lego.

I guessed then- they are going to keep going until they have a 1.0 petrol engine aren't they. Thats the 'pinnacle' of F1/engineering.

This is the way all cars are going though.

The pinnacle of F1/engineering doesn't have to be based on the internal combustion engine. 100+ years ago steam engines were the pinnacle but we don't race those!

I watched the Formula E race at the weekend and there was more racing in that than the F1 race. And with the Formula E regs being opened up a bit more next season I do think F1 will have a serious rival in 4 or 5 years.

The only difference is the engines are starting to sound like they are powered by rubberbands.

They missed a trick with the turbo cars. They needed to sound like 1988 McLaren Hondas instead of these insipid creations.

Also, do a google search for engine noise of a 1995 Ferrari or 2001 Williams BMW and you'll hear exactly what Hora means.

I'm all for fuel saving in F1, but the focus is wrong. Why are we saving 3mpg per lap when it takes 24 large lorries and a couple of 747s to transport each team around the world for twenty races?

But they have to entice engine manufactures to make the engines.

Who have to sell the idea to the shareholders and public.

That's why they are hybrid and smaller and fuel efficient.

Why are we saving 3mpg per lap when it takes 24 large lorries and a couple of 747s to transport each team around the world for twenty races?

Because this is what the manufacturers want - there is a direct trickle down to road cars. Unfortunately V12s have no relevance in todays car market.

If we went back to 3 ltr engines the car makers would leave and teams would buy engines from people like Cosworth.

..and the big money would disappear!

I do get that...but we've massively complex - and expensive - power units that cost three times as much as they did in 2012.

Today, we have Ferrari, Renault, Honda and Mercedes supplying engines.

In the last twenty five years, we've had Peugeot, Subari, Yamaha, Ford, Porsche, BMW, Judd, Lamborghini, Toyota and even Subaru who've decided to turn away from F1.

The sport needs to find ways of getting more manufacturers involved.

I wouldnt expect new engine manufacturers to enter f1 after seeing honda and renault struggle. The longer we are in the regulations the less likely newcomers are going to enter especially seeing the others have more development and track time and tokens.

They may be customer chassis and engines or maybe both from mercedes and renault ( if rb pull out).

anyone watching goodwood racing on Motors TV

awesome classic RACING cars 😀

quite fancy a Mini 1275GT now... 😉

Here's the story the conspiracy theorists have been waiting for 🙂

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118164

McLaren has revealed that Fernando Alonso felt the steering of his Formula 1 car went 'heavy' in the moments before his testing crash at Barcelona last month...

...A McLaren statement said: "While there was nothing evident in the extensive car telemetry data, nor anything abnormal in the subsequent reconstructions and laboratory tests, Fernando recalls a sense of 'heavy' steering prior to the accident.

So it was Ron in the boardroom with the pressure seal for the power steering wot dunnit... 😆

[quote=hora ]I rewatched the race last night on some beeb channel.
It was just like almost every race over the past 5+years.

Were you asleep for all of last year? Some great racing. Melbourne was a proper snooze fest, and I really hope it's not going to be like that all year.

I bet they've been holding that one back until it looks like he's going to be cleared to race, which would've shut up the conspiracy theorists but now they've got something else to bang on about.

I think the steering mechanism was deliberately electrocuted by Alonso when he realised what a bad car he had and so wanted a get out from driving the mclaren and thought that slamming it into a wall at high speed would be the perfect way to execute that strategy. Oh and I've heard the car was laced with high explosives and had lizard fingerprints on the engine cover, and that Ron Dennis was once seen shaking hands with a bloke who once saw a picture of Jimmy Saville. It's all coming together now, but as always people... do your own research.

McLaren McLaren McLaren - so did Alonso suddenly remember this now? earlier? did they know at the time of the accident - was it radio comms - car data - its just a bull answer that doesnt blame the driver, the engine or the car - there is still to be truth had here..............

and for those who complain about us "theorists" well you were all saying it was as simple as a driver mistake/wind/plain old accident and ron was even saying it was a "nothing" and alonso was fine...now theres an official reason where there was no need before...so...
again i say there is still to be truth had here....

PSA: Racing Legends, 19.00 BBC 2 tonight...

This one's about Graham Hill 🙂

..now theres an official reason where there was no need before..

No there isn't. No evidence from telemetry. Nothing found in tests. Just Alonso saying the steering was heavy.

[quote=richmars ]

..now theres an official reason where there was no need before..