[Closed] The F1 2015 thread...

The FIA report did not say it was bypassed, but that there was a 'clash' of conflicting algorithms.

Which likely means they didn'y understand it.

The ECU in every F1 are made by McLaren. The external systems from each individual team have to work with it. It's easy to see how there could be compatibility issues that only show up in extreme circumstances.

You can bet they will be checking for that now though. Hopefully.

ScottChegg - Member
It does the opposite. Both pedals fully down is the panic mode in an F1 car. It should shut down the engine immediately as well as applying the brakes. It's know as FailSafe.

Bianchi's car didn't behave due to a software clash with the brake by wire system. It ended up applying full throttle when he wanted considerably less.

Do you mean that drivers press both pedals intentionally to shut down the car during a crash? FailSafe doesn't do that, it just cuts the accelerator input when the brake pedal is completely depressed. Apols if I've misunderstood.

Anyway he was on wet grass with both front wheels locked. He was always going to find the crane.

The FIA report stated this

7.During the 2 seconds Bianchi’s car was leaving the track and traversing the run-off area, he applied both throttle and brake together, using both feet. The FailSafe algorithm is designed to over-ride the throttle and cut the engine, but was inhibited by the Torque Coordinator, which controls the rear Brake-by-Wire system. Bianchi’s Marussia has a unique design of BBW, which proved to be incompatible with the FailSafe settings.

Which I understand to read as I interpreted above. Feel free to point me in the right direction if not. 😀

In more surprising news, Bernie Ecclescake seems to be talking sense today! His comments about customer chassis for smaller teams make a good case for changing the rules to allow it.

I read it differently - I read that when brake is applied (or over a certain amount probably - I know they use throttle to balance the attitude of the car while braking which I think is where the specific issue with the Marussia BBW wasn't compatible), the throttle is cut, not that you have to floor both to get it to cut which wouldn't make much sense IMO - I can't see that JB did it deliberately - at a minimum, given the responsiveness of an F1 engine, flooring the throttle would even momentarily power the rear wheels which would be the last thing you'd want if you were heading for a crash.

I'm not at all keen on customer cars or chassis.
the big teams would simply use the small teams as test beds.
I'd rather see more cost control and a lot more money going to the smaller teams.
The extra prize money should be minimal with a relitively equal share of the pot between all teams.

not that you have to floor both to get it to cut which wouldn't make much sense IMO

It would make more sense than a bit of left foot brake mid corner then the engine cuts out unexpectedly. Where would you set the threshold?

Well that's the bit that I understood Marussia has messed with - eg they used their BBW with throttle response to control it. You could still set the threshold fairly high (on brake pressure) and have no issue.

But he still would have hit the back of the JCB though, wouldn't he ?

He would. But he might have been going a little bit slower.

jota180 - Member

the big teams would simply use the small teams as test beds.

Nah, giving customers new stuff puts you at risk of the customer having a better car than you which would be highly embarassing. They'd keep them a mod or two behind (MotoGP style)

Not allowing a customer chassis is kind of the thing that makes F1, F1 though isn't it?

Build a car and come racing.

If you can just rock up and buy last year's Ferarri and go racing it would destroy the sport, there is no reason for even mid table teams to make their own car. So you end up with a small band of car manufacturers who dominate the sport and a load of also rans struggling by using their cast offs a la Moto GP. 3 car teams would also be inevitable.

If a customer chassis was an option 10 years ago it's doubtful a team like Red Bull would exist as it does now

So you end up with a small band of car manufacturers who dominate the sport

there's always a small number of manufacturer/teams dominating the sport though, I don't believe you'd see a massive change tbh. but last years Mercedes (for example) might be quite a desirable tool to have, and would certainly be faster than many 2015 built cars (especially as it would still benefit from upgrades)

Also leads to the possibility of larger grids as the start up costs are less prohibitive

Helmets for 2015...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/03/09/2015-f1-driver-helmets-in-pictures/

Not allowing a customer chassis is kind of the thing that makes F1, F1 though isn't it?

F1 in the 70s was built on small teams codging an entry together from what they could get hold of. A cheap engine and chassis could start a whole new set of teams that may go on to greater things a few years down the line.

Justin King, ex M&S and Sainsburys boss is in at Manor; grooming him for the top job??

So first crash of the season (starting in Q1) who do we think?

(Maldo is excluded from this game! 🙂 )

(Maldo is excluded from this game! )

Bugger that's my best guess ruined, Felipe Nasr has bought his seat so could be a contender

So first crash of the season (starting in Q1) who do we think?

Will Stevens

Rookie driver in a team rushed together in a couple of weeks.

@the-muffin-man

yeah i'd go for him too -
pushing too hard, wanting to impress, car half finished - slide, bonk, no spares, out.

if not him then the dutch guy.

edit: 3 practice sessions first though. i'm sure at least one car will get a total rebuild before Q1

Stevens kept his nose clean in a race last year didn't he? Last race of the season for Caterham?

It was easy to keep his nose clean though, in that Caterham he never got close enough behind anyone to damage it.

if not him then the dutch guy

Giedo van der Garde?

He's too busy suing Sauber in the Melbourne court to have any time for driving

My understanding of the article is that mehri is contracted for the first race only.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31808243

Either they want to see how good he is or wait until they can get someone with more cash for the actual 2015 car. I suppose it doesnt matter if they have rookies in the car as they wont be relying on their immediate feedback.

Also it seems that they could pickup up a few more ex caterham assets. Sainz / Verstappen for the first crash in oz

If it's windy then the McLaren will be the first one in the wall, hope they've got a good supply of nurofen.

No, first crash will be Hamilton and Rosburg at the first corner - both trying to dominate the season from the start 🙂

Followed by the rest of them who all crash into the back, leaving Stevens to drive round the mess to take the win.

Alonso "shock" rumor/theory = possible FIA cover-up because they would be forced to prevent all teams from using KERS and therefore destroy F1's total image not only for hybrid power, but also they would be going round slower than someone-who-thinks-they-are-a-star in a reasonably priced car, and making less noise too!

hamilton rosberg might be the first crash in the race. but them crashing in Q1 would be like Coulthard? crashing on the out lap.

even then there's scope for carnage behind hamilton and rosberg just before they get to the 1st corner. maldonado or grosjean for that. all the rookies will be behind the "action".

My prediction:

Lewis stalls on the grid. Fights his way back upto 2nd passing Nico. Riccardo first.

Bottas 4th.

Crash - Carlos Sainz Jr. Trying to impress dad with a daring move at the first corner...

Podium - Rosberg, Riccardo, Hamilton.

So who'll be up at 4.30am on Sunday to watch the race live!?

I like the earlier start time, I'd grown to miss getting up in the middle of the night!

I will be up for it.

Slightly off topic - 2015 Indy Car Aero Kits are starting to come out. Some old skool F1 going on here!...

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

So who'll be up at 4.30am on Sunday to watch the race live!?

Nah, I'll do what I've always done - record it and watch it 'live' at around 7am instead.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/31806850 ]bbc[/url]

Well this doesn't really clear the Akonso events up does it? It really shows an us and them relationship between mclaren and slonso. Also, I didn't realise Briatore manages Alonso. 😐

I don't think we will see Alonso in a mclaren again this year on the basis of this report.

Always been a bit of a Sauber fan, but this is a right mess.

[url= http://www.pitpass.com/53400/Court-rules-in-favour-of-Van-der-Garde ]Pitpass [/url]

Australian court has ruled in favour of GVG. The weirdest bit is GVG's comments about his 'good working relationship with the team'. Hmm, not so sure about that one, Giedo..,

Also, I didn't realise Briatore manages Alonso.

Me neither! I thought he was long gone after that scandal.

It really shows an us and them relationship between mclaren and slonso.

I've read the article but I'm also a bit thick. What am I missing?

Well this doesn't really clear the Akonso events up does it? It really shows an us and them relationship between mclaren and slonso. Also, I didn't realise Briatore manages Alonso.

I don't think we will see Alonso in a mclaren again this year on the basis of this report.

I'm inclined to agree with you. It was always a marriage of convenience. The fact he won't be in Australia at all speaks volumes to me.

McLaren had given Alonso no information about whether the car had a steering problem
McLaren's communications on the accident were "not brilliant"
Reacting to speculation that Alonso suffered an electric shock, causing him to crash, Briatore responded: "I hope not.

I guess the above comments point to a distinct lack of collaboration between the team and driver. I don't know if this is normal or not, I always assumed the relationships would be more cohesive and there would be consistent messages coming from the team and driver. This doesnt reflect this in my eyes.

The fact he won't be in Australia at all speaks volumes to me.

I thought that hence why I think there will be some sort of revelation or announcement before the next race.

The fact that he's not in Australia tells me that the doctor's are being careful with his rest.
You wouldn't take a flight to the other side of the world following a concussion just to be there.
The risk is small but not zero

It was weeks ago.

We'd better not transport any ski, car accident, cancer patients etc by medical plane flights in the future then.

Agreed, looks like a surprisingly poor level of communication there

What on earth have cancer patients got to do with it?

And we're not talking about transporting him, just sending him for a long haul jolly

If you can't see the difference, i give in, you've won, its all a plot

You've missed the turning to my point. Either that or you know its right.

Every day people who bash themselves up are transported from holiday etc etc back home, sometimes in serious but stablised conditions.

All at pressurised altitude.

So. Lets just see what comes out in the wash in this one eh? If hes there at Malayasian then your right. Its not a conspiracy/owt wrong.

I'd bet he's flown already since the accident.

I can see what jota180 is getting at but I think that the key point here is that the reason we have been given for Alonso not racing is that he can't risk another crash in case he gets 'Second-impact Syndrome', so he should be fine to fly to Oz and support his team.

I just don't think he trusts McLaren from previous dealings and now the (possibly false) rumours around the car.

Interesting trivia question on the Beeb, see how many you can get without cheating - Max Verstappen is the 12th son of a former F1-racing driver to drive in Formula One. How many others can you name?

Got a disappointing seven. 🙁

Crazy how its the sons who get the breaks.

How many great talented drivers in the lower formule didn't get a break because they couldn't get sponsorship/wont connected or related to someone?

Well - 12 out of the more than 800 formula one drivers there've been, I would guess.

Verstappen
Rosberg
Villeneuve
Hill
Magnussen
Piquet

That's all I can think of but my knowledge only really goes back to early 90s so any before that I wouldn't know.

EDIT - now I've looked, I should have got Brabham, Fittipaldi and Andretti. I did vaguely recall a Japanese driver so I'll give myself a half point for Nakajima 🙂

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2015/1/16762.html

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/11464903/McLaren-chairman-Ron-Dennis-I-was-wrong-to-say-Fernando-Alonso-did-not-suffer-concussion-during-crash.html ]Oh Ron...[/url]

"I wanted to be open and honest" - he says - "bit i failed" , so that means YOU LIED RON !

what else do you lie about...
cars performance?
cars upgrades?
cars safety?

He's such a tool.

[quote=the-muffin-man ]Slightly off topic - 2015 Indy Car Aero Kits are starting to come out. Some old skool F1 going on here!...

Those monstrosities make last year's F1 cars look pretty.

Every day people who bash themselves up are transported from holiday etc etc back home, sometimes in serious but stablised conditions.

Okay. Read Rons comment about Malaysia

'Its upto Alonso's Doctors'

Almost like someone is on the back foot.

Whats going on? Im starting to think its a 'health' sabbatical for upto a year.

I'm really hoping that all this conspiracy theory bollix about alonso stops as soon as the racing starts. When it was confirmed that he'd miss Oz there were knowledable people saying he shouldn't even make the trip, and now it's another petty point seized on by the jhjs of the motorsports world.

"He wants to race there. I hope he does"

Is that what you mean?

[url= http://www.pitpass.com/53404/Dennis-I-got-it-wrong ]Pitpass [/url]

Okay. Read Rons comment about Malaysia

'Its upto Alonso's Doctors'

Almost like someone is on the back foot.

Whats going on? Im starting to think its a 'health' sabbatical for upto a year.

It's almost like Alonso's doctors have told him he shouldn't go, so he's told Ron he's not going.

For Ron to say that about the second race says somethings up.

If he does take a sabbatical who will take a bloke whose last title was 10yrs ago?

Harsh but.

I'm not sure that I quite buy into the theory that Alonso doesn't want to drive for McLaren on the basis of their testing performances.

The alternatives are far worse however...

1) Alonso has a previously undiagnosed medical condition that manifested itself during testing at Barcelona.

2) That there's a mechanical problem with that McLaren that's caused Alonso's hospitalisation and the team haven't been completely truthful about.

Im going with 2).

What the actual fact are you gibbering on about Hora? Surely Ron is saying they have no problem with Alonso racing, it's all down to medical experts to clear him. Please God let there be some racing to talk about soon.

And yep, who will take the driver who is still rated as the most complete driver in F1, I'm sure he'll get in at Manor if he can bring some sponsorship money...

The most complete? He was. Every driver wanes. Its just the degree by. Kimi was waning, cameback- brief good performances then waned again. It happens to them all. When to call it a day. Yes he pulled performances out of the Ferrari but he moved to a team that has a brand new unproven engine in a team thats getting a rep for a poor Chassis design? Regretting his decision? Jumped as he knew his time was nearing?

I also think Vettel is past his peak now.

Lets wait and see what happens before Malaysia. Call my bluff then quoting me or..

I sincerely hope its not an undiagnoses health issue 🙁

So he consistently outperformed a dog of a car last year, walked into a team knowing far more about their internal structure and personnel than you or I, and gambled on a new engine from a company just returning to f1 after years away. Exactly which part of their current situation would be a complete surprise to him?

And yeah you're dead right about him being a waning has been, it's not like he was the key to the whole driver market last year or anything...

it's not like he was the key to the whole driver market last year or anything...

TBF - I think he thought he was but got wrong footed by Vettel and Red Bull

I didnt see him move to Merc for 15/16.

Lots said he would.

[quote=hora ]Im going with 2).

So Button who has seen the telemetry and knows a [b]lot[/b] more about the accident and the situation at McHonda than you is refusing to drive in Australia as well?

[quote=hora ]he moved to a team that has a brand new unproven engine in a team thats getting a rep for a poor Chassis design?

Eh? All that I've read from people who know what they're talking about (ie not hora) the considered opinion is that the Mc chassis is pretty decent this year, and might actually be very good.

I also think Vettel [s]is past his peak[/s] isn't in a car which makes up for him not being the best now.

I do wonder how many WCs Button might have if he'd had Vettel's cars.

Call my bluff then quoting me or..

Don't worry, we will. Remind me again how that believing everything Armstrong said thing went?

The chassis is good? Lets see. See you post race1-2.

Lewis jumped ship. Part of knowing wheres good is jumping onto it at the right time.

Button stayed on. Lets see if McHonda comes good over these few races. At the least they should be beating Williams

hora - Member
I didnt see him move to Merc for 15/16.

Lots said he would.

Have had a bang to your head recently resulting in memory issues? 😉

hora - Member
Ok heres my prediction (seeing as Im wrong once, who knows I might be right on my next prediction)..

Alonso in a Merc for 2015

Vettel in a Merc for 2015 or sabbatical

Hamo in a McLaren for 2015

Didnt happen though as I thought Merc would prefer Nico for the title 😆

So yes I was wrong on that one.

Nico collapsed/Lewis resurged.

Lets wait and see. I think Alonso has missed the Merc boat now. Merc are a knoen hot commodity. They dont need to approach title holders.

Well, we don't know how good the McLaren chassis is, because the engine has held back the testing times.

We do know that McLaren (like Ferrari) made a poor decision on the aerodynamics last year that resulted in excessive understeer. We also know that the appointment of Peter Prodromou has been key to McLaren and that his influence on the MP4/30 has been profound, given the obvious Red Bull influences to the aero package. I'd be willing to bet that the McLaren would be near the front if it had a Merc engine (assuming it would fit under the Honda-specific bodywork).

[url= http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9695979/mark-hughes-on-ferrari-and-mclarens-search-for-downforce-in-2015 ]2014 McLaren & Ferrari analysis here[/url]

However, we do know that the Honda hasn't been given the full moo on track yet and that there's a lot of work to do. We also know that there have been niggling reliability issues (oil seals...seriously?) with testing the McLaren-Honda.

Frankly, it'll be a miracle for either Macca to make it to the end of the race. However, I'd be willing to bet that McLaren-Honda are strong in Monaco and Hungary - assuming they get the reliability issues solved by then.

Thepurist who witheld your pudding today?

😀 guilty as charged

😀 me thinks puddingate will be here for a while in our lexon

[quote=hora ]The chassis is good? Lets see.

Well neither of us know - but those with a better understanding than us seem to think it might be OK. It's certainly not expected to be rubbish.

jota180 - Member

Giedo van der Garde?

He's too busy suing Sauber in the Melbourne court to have any time for driving

shermer75 - Member

Australian court has ruled in favour of GVG. The weirdest bit is GVG's comments about his 'good working relationship with the team'. Hmm, not so sure about that one, Giedo..,

It appears that Giedo has tripped over his boot laces whilst dancing with delight

...... he's forgotten to renew his super Licence 🙂

t appears that Giedo has tripped over his boot laces whilst dancing with delight
...... he's forgotten to renew his super Licence

He can apply for a temp licence and get this within a matter of hrs.

What a mess tho.

Apparently its the responsibility of the team to renew his licence. But that aside, its a mess.

However GVD will have backers who will want their money back if he cant race.

The two existing drivers will also have backers who will want their money back if they don't drive.

In the middle is Saubers boss - who used to be a lawyer !