[Closed] The F1 2015 thread...

toby1 watch any race from the Bridgestone Schumacher era and tell me it was better then. F1 fans always seem to believe there was a golden age where anyone on the grid could win and there was a fight for the lead until the last corner of the last lap. That never happened, but we all edit together our own personal highlights reel and think we'll get another Bahrain 14 with buttons win in Canada and hakkinen and schumi going toe to toe at spa, then finish off with arnoux v villeneuve. Being an f1 fan has, for me, been about watching strategy slowly unfold, or the ebb and flow of technical development over the season. Each race is like a chapter in a book, some set the scene, some are full of action and some are just a sub plot, but the overall story is what I enjoy.

Red Bull are after engine parity from the Ferrari deal. If I was Ferrari I'd walk away from this. If they supply RBR with a slower engine Horner will spend all next season blaming the 'slow engine' if their not winning!

Or are RBR just trying to make it harder for themselves to stay?

And why would Ferrari care about that when the "same" engine in their own car is further up the grid? If anything it just makes their car look better.

Checo to Renault

Wrong! Staying at FI.

And Jens has demurred slightly on all the retirement talk. It goes on.

RBR are the bully of the playground, when everyone else has a growth spurt. Suddenly they can't swan around like they own the place and they don't like it much.

I wouldn't be sad to see them leave.

F1 fans always seem to believe there was a golden age where anyone on the grid could win and there was a fight for the lead until the last corner of the last lap. That never happened, but we all edit together our own personal highlights reel and think we'll get another Bahrain 14 with buttons win in Canada and hakkinen and schumi going toe to toe at spa, then finish off with arnoux v villeneuve. Being an f1 fan has, for me, been about watching strategy slowly unfold, or the ebb and flow of technical development over the season. Each race is like a chapter in a book, some set the scene, some are full of action and some are just a sub plot, but the overall story is what I enjoy.

This is a great point very well made.

Yeah, agreed. I'm pretty sure I sat through plenty of tedious processions in the 80s and 90s.

It's just that you (obviously) never see those on the highlights that appear on the BBC F1 page or wherever, and no-one really remembers them.

2014 was as good a season as any I've seen, I think.

Or are RBR just trying to make it harder for themselves to stay?

What the @purist said. Fundamentally F1 is mostly about the car, same as any design lead sport. The objective is to make a car in which any decent driver can win

Honer is involved in the British Americas Cup sailing team with Ainslee, he's not doing that for the money relative to F1 but I'm sure it's technically fascinating and a useful distraction. He can take a break from F1 and be back st any time

Honer is involved in the British Americas Cup sailing team with Ainslee

It's Adrian Newey, unless you're thinking of this bloke:

[img] [/img]

Autosport report Grosjean to Haas is a done deal - and they don't usually report unless there is some truth behind a story...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120977

Re the future Renault engine upgrade - I would laugh so much I might let out a little wee if it proves to be good! Would serve Red Bull right.

Horner has said the expected VW deal has "gone up in smoke"

Lovely pun for a man wondering who'll be paying his mortgage in 18 months

well qualifying was fun.. hmm I have huge respect for Kvyat for getting out of the car and acknowledging the mistake. My stomach dropped when watching the crash. I hope tomorrow goes smoothly..Looks like its going to be a straight fight between the mercs.

Yep, good qualifying, shame Verstappen's car died though. I was looking forward to seeing how he'd do! 🙂

ScottChegg - Member
Horner has said the expected VW deal has "gone up in smoke"

Lovely pun for a man wondering who'll be paying his mortgage in 18 months

I very much doubt that he's either wondering or worried.

Hamo was surely going to pip the pole? Can nico ever do it without some outside intervention?

...and again in a one on one Rosberg loses out.

Go Lewis!

I was expecting to hear a radio clip of him complaining.

I'm sure there'll be one before the end

Yes

Enjoyed that. Especially Alonso's messages back to the team.

Oooh. Ron's interview was embarrassing. Good/bad news for Jenson, will be interesting to see his response.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

hamilton once again gets away with pushing rosberg off - considering last year they had a written agreement they would not do that in the first 3 laps but this time lewis "complained of understeer" at the exact same time nico was on the outside!

nice to see ron squirm, although a lot of talk from him i didnt really see him actually answer ANY question!

did merc throw the last race? for some reason? because they should have been disqualified from the previious race with the tyre issue - did they make some kind of backhand agreement to not finish in the top 3 ?

B2B - can you point me towards this written agreement? Fro what I saw rosberg ran out of road!

they should have been disqualified from the previious race with the tyre issue

Why?

more like that agreement with suzuka to not give mercs air time. I like the extra tv time for rbr. Some might say its to sweeten the deal to keep Red bull in the show. The camera work was a bit shoddy and that lovely cut away to the camera man who clearly woke up and started shooting the sky. F1 seems t move from one pr disaster to another. If it isnt renault going bust its mclaren going backwards and then rbr leaving, none of which is related to the sporting spectacle at all.

"Gp2 Gp2 rarrrghhh" - quote of the day 🙂

Bernie has lost the plot and people are taking advantage - both Renault and RBR are running circles around him

jeez do you guys watch f1?

merc had issue with tyre pressures at start of race 2 races ago, was going to get disqualified after race investigation but pulled the "oh but the procedure of the rule was a bit grey" and in theory they should have been removed from the race - perhaps a deal was struck then? in the "interests" of the show, let them win and they will throw the next one.

as for the agreement - nico and lauda both said on camera about an agreement that meant towards the mid-to end of last year they would not push each other off in the first 'x' laps of a race.

3 seconds of google searching for you
http://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/Nico-Lewis-feud-Why-theres-peace-at-Merc-20150722

[quote=back2basics ]jeez do you guys watch f1?
merc had issue with tyre pressures at start of race 2 races ago, was going to get disqualified after race investigation but pulled the "oh but the procedure of the rule was a bit grey" and in theory they should have been removed from the race - perhaps a deal was struck then? in the "interests" of the show, let them win and they will throw the next one.Makes you think, eh?

You [i]are[/i] JHJ and ICMFP

jeez do you guys watch f1?

We watch it, and understand it.

no one run rings around bernie,
if red bull pull out (along with torro rosso) then its 3 car teams, and bernie has been wanting that for ages
given that
silly season would go into overload

i get dibs on Nico, Lewis, Alonso at merc 🙂 🙂

Keep taking the pills b2b

The written agreement was for absolutely NO contact between the cars during racing and respectful distances in the first 5 laps.

Lewis got the better start, got the inside line and drove the racing line. This meant that it was Nico, not Lewis who was forced to agree to the agreement. He had to back out or collide. This was identical to Spa in 14, but in that instance Nico allowed his car to hit Lewis rather than back off. This time, post agreement, he had no choice but to back-off.

If he'd have realised this just a f reaction of a secon earlier, he'd have been able to slot in behind Lewis and ride the sister cars slipstream, rather than holding the challenge to the last possible moment and thn being forced on to the grass, losing 2 positions in the process.

Renault to buy Lotus- its official according to the BBC.

Spot on Daffy. Every weekend kartist knows this. Poor driving by Nico IMO but understandable as he knew that once Lewis got in front the race win was gone.

[quote=back2basics ]merc had issue with tyre pressures at start of race 2 races ago, was going to get disqualified after race investigation but pulled the "oh but the procedure of the rule was a bit grey" and in theory they should have been removed from the race - perhaps a deal was struck then? in the "interests" of the show, let them win and they will throw the next one.

er, the procedure was a bit grey, and it seems quite clear that they did have the required tyre pressure at the point they measured it.

Daffy has it regarding Hamilton pushing Rosberg off - he had the advantage, hence it wasn't down to him to back off to avoid contact. The agreement is to not do silly things when you don't have the advantage, not to prevent the driver with the line taking advantage in the normal way by using all the road.

This time, post agreement, he had no choice but to back-off.

Agreement or not - contact wasn't an option for either driver. Lewis couldn't afford a puncture and few points after last weeks DNF. Nico had to finish high up to keep his slim hopes alive. So Lewis was taking a bit of a risk by squeezing Rosberg.

jeez do you guys watch f1?

I do my ironing while watching F1 usually, too 😉

Possibly EU investigation instigated by Force India and Sauber - the wheels are falling off F1, it's in a bit of a mess right now...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015/09/29/two-teams-call-on-eu-to-investigate-f1/

Also rumours that British Grand Prix is under threat. If a race that attracts one of the biggest crowds can't make it pay there is something seriously wrong.

[quote=the-muffin-man ]Also rumours that British Grand Prix is under threat. If a race that attracts one of the biggest crowds can't make it pay there is something seriously wrong.

I read that and decided it wasn't worth commenting on as presumably it's just Bernie playing games again.

The EU thing can really cause F1 major problems, it could indeed either wipe the power base out the big teams have enjoyed (i.e rule veto) , or force F1 to not run inside the EU ...

And, its not exactly great when 2 teams that are inside F1 are activley lodging proceedings against it...

i can only imagine the EU would want a 1 vote 1 team policy and fair prize money distribution, (i.e 1 WDC/WMC point = X million) - and none of this historic payment formula rubbish.

all of it shows its not a great time to be investing millions in f1....

It's a bit cheeky Sauber going to the courts, since it's not long they were roasted for taking money for drives and not honouring the deal.

They know the rules, why do they join the show and then complain?

I read that and decided it wasn't worth commenting on as presumably it's just Bernie playing games again.

Story came from Silverstone management though, not Bernie.

JB could be a busy boy next year - he's currently got drives with McLaren, Porsche and now Renault F1 team! 😀

So Silverstone building vocal public support for the race before they try to renegotiate the deal with bernie? And fi finding legal reasons to get equitable fund distribution because they won't get it via the concorde agreement. All we need now is a protest against an illegal component on the mercs and it's business as usual all round.

I think we also need a whinge from RBR for a full house.

Button stays at McLaren

shhhh dont tell anyone....Alonso to "new" Renault 🙂

Is the Button news official? Can't see even on the gossip F1 sites.

Can't Alonso and Red Bull go off together and do skidoo racing in Siberia so we don't have to hear from them again!

Is the Button news official?

Been announced on Mclaren Facebook so I'd say official enough.

Well done bunsen .. its a shame for K-mag and Stoffel and now manor merc rather than manor mchonda. I wonder who is going to hoover up Torro Rosso.

Bit surprised Button's staying on. Can't see him carrying on beyond next season and Renault would have to be a better bet for a respectable swansong, surely?

Renault would have to be a better bet for a respectable swansong, surely?

McLaren have better company cars!

Yep - nice to see JB staying on.

I would expect Honda to be more competitive next year - not on a par with the Merc but from what I understand, they made fundamental mistakes on their engine this year (turbo is too small basically) in much the same way that Ferrari did last year.

And the new separate wastegate exhaust rule means that they've effectively got some more free tokens for development too.

Or maybe they'll do a Renault and be just as crap... 😉

Reckon Manor might have a couple of strong drivers next year - Werlein seems like a very strong prospect to go with the engines but K-mag and Stoffel are still to be placed.

Its a shame that Button didn't decide to have a crack at the WEC, McLaren still wont be up there next year, and with the news that Manor have got the Merc power unit, coupled with a Williams gearbox and Petronas fuel they are now pretty much a Mercedes B team.

McL could be competitive though, couldn't they - Ferrari showed what's capable in off season development and generally the McL seems to be considered a reasonable chassis. Renault's main issue seems to be with resourcing if what's being written is right - Merc and Ferrari have thrown huge numbers of people at the engines while Renault have been much more constrained.

I agree though - by my reckoning, either Lotus or McL are at risk of being at the back of the grid if Manor can get the ingredients they'll now have to work effectively.

Lets be honest. None of us have a vague clue whose cars will be good or bad next season.

slowoldman - Member
Lets be honest. None of us have a vague clue whose cars will be good or bad next season.

I'm certainly hoping it'll all be a bit more mixed up:

Maybe a reasonable fight between Mercedes and Ferrari for the top spot?

Manor not being at the back?

Renault and McLaren-Honda could well be rubbish, but there's a slim chance they might not be?!?!

so the question is where is haas placed.. behind renault or infront? I think its a toss up between Renault, Mchonda and Hass. Personally it will be Haas as I dont think they have the experience for in season development or the people quite yet for the Chassis despite dallara doing the donkey work.

Both Renault and Mchonda have design teams capable of a half decent job on the chassis.

I'd forgotten about Haas. Maybe next season will all be about the fight for the middle! Especially now as Mercedes have stopped getting any TV coverage haha

I think the Spirit Master is supposed to be Ron Dennis haha

[url= http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/team/turbo-heroes-an-8-bit-adventure/ ]McLaren-Honda 8 bit adventure[/url]

Why would Exhaustus choose to drive a Marussia? At least I presume that's what he's driving given the turbo heroes manage to catch up with him.

oooerrr according to reports ferrari wont supply Red Bull.. We are in a pickle now
[url= http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12475/10022645/red-bulls-f1-future-in-limbo-after-ferrari-reject-request-for-engines ]here[/url]

Options seem to be
1) keep existing contract with Renault for 2016 engines,
2) Believe what Bernie is saying and that merc engines will be supplied. Also see Hamilton mention how he wants a duel with Vettel.
3) Bugger off and do what you threatened to do ( caveat is that they will only stay if they have a competitive engine.. if by some miracle Renault becomes competitive / Renault buys Red Bull instead of Lotus 🙂

This is indeed all really interesting stuff. I actually really liked what Lewis Hamilton says at the end of [url= http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/10/lewis-hamilton-cannot-wait-to-get-stuck-into-a-dogfight-with-vettel-and-ferrari/ ]this article,[/url] about it being unprecedented for a team to win four world champs in a row and then sulk off in to the sunset two seasons later. It's almost as if he's adopting an elder statesman-like role!

I feel like it is a pretty bad situation for the sport, especially for me as Max Verstappen and Daniel Ricciardo are two of my favourite drivers right now, but you can't help thinking that Red Bull have painted themselves into a corner with this one. The fact that illustrates this the most for me is that Renault are yet to use a development token this season! I can't help thinking this is due to the negative publicity they have received from Red Bull. Ouch!

I personally dont think the divorce papers are quite singed and sealed. If Renault do sort the engine out then Red Bull will stay but what about Lotus. Yes there is a letter of intent but for what year?

I'd like to see Red bull in Formula E. More up and coming and energy related 🙂
I expect Bernie to wield his axe and probably wont see any Ferrari or Mercedes coverage this weekend and a lot of Mchonda and Manor!

Is it worse for redbull to be seen as the sulky bad guys who took their toys away when they couldn't win any more, or to be the dynamic positive thinking competitors who worked through the tough times and came back fighting.? I think Renault will have a massive gagging clause in any renegotiated supply contract.

And speaking of contracts it seems alonso has confirmed his intention of honouring his 2016 drive with mchonda. B2b will be disappointed 😉

And speaking of contracts it seems alonso has confirmed his intention of honouring his 2016 drive with mchonda. B2b will be disappointed

Not as disappointed as Stoffel Vandorne! Can't see where McLaren can place him now, with Manor sort of becoming Mercedes B team.

I think Red Bull / Torro Rosso are slightly unique and one or both could walk away. End of the day it is only marketing, they have plenty of other marketing concepts out there and they aren't a car manufacturing company with a reputation to protect or a racing team like Williams or McLaren.

And lets face it BMW weren't all that shabby with a race win and two top 3's in the constructors but walked away at little cost.

they'll end up with a honda engine in it at this rate 🙂

BBC are suggesting that Red Bull could buy F1 if they can't get an engine 😯

I do think Eddie for a change has some decent points, and Merc are going to totally destroy the sport for their dominance.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34486393 ]BBC F1 story [/url]

There's an interesting read on autosport.com about the season without Mercedes. The autosport beta site is free this weekend if you want a read. Vettel would already have wrapped up the wdc and Ferrari would be wcc. So without merc Ferrari would be more dominant than the current dominant team.

Did they destroy the sport when shumi was winning everything? Did redbull kill it when Vettel walked the 2nd half of the season. Did mclaren kill it with the mp4/4? Nope.

Merc are going to totally destroy the sport for their dominance.

http://beta.autosport.com/premium/feature/6711/would-f1-2015-be-better-without-mercedes

Is the article, got it slightly wrong with the wcc, but the point stands.

I stopped watching footie about three years ago as it became clear that it was all one big machine, run by marketing men and sold to big children.

I suspect F1 is going the same way, for different reasons...

Phew.

Crikey! I bet he'll have a sore neck...

[quote=reggiegasket ]I stopped watching footie about three years ago as it became clear that it was all one big machine, run by marketing men and sold to big children.
I suspect F1 is going the same way, for different reasons...

Going? 😯 Has it ever been anything else?

Yep, I was holding my breath for a good long while there. Massive relief to see him give the thumbs up, this season Carlos Sainz has proved himself to be a very talented and likeable fellow

So, Rosberg is stepping up at last, Williams seem to be outpacing everyone else and Verstappen out-qualifying Ricciardo. Could be a good one tomorrow!

So, Rosberg is stepping up at last,

..or Bernie has told Mercedes to spice things up! 😀

It will be crazy in sainz gets to race tomorrow. Asking a racer if he will pass up a drive is a rhetorical question. I know these guys are made of of another material but really? Just look at rugby players and boxers, I know its not repeated blows but its a lot of Gs. Really glad he's ok. These new races still have some teething problems.
Rosberg to win and Hamilton to come second. Williams to balls up a pit / strategy and Vettel to take 3rd. Bottas to pass Hamilton at the start.

Rosberg to win and Hamilton to come second. Williams to balls up a pit / strategy and Vettel to take 3rd. Bottas to pass Hamilton at the start.

This all sounds about right to me! Although I think Hamilton will win after Rosberg runs wide at a corner