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if they stop supplying engines then probably a merc rebadged as inifiniti 🙂 . I forgot that actually it was Infiniti RBR so Renault did have a chance to promote the company name.
I don't think Mercedes would let them have such close access to their engines!
Rumour is that Manor could get the engines Lotus currently use and become a Merc 'B' Team.
McLaren would quite like Manor too I reckon - feeder team and also to allow more mileage/testing of the Honda PU (Poo unit).
If Renault buy Lotus, they'd use the Renault engine as suggested but many in the know reckon that Renault are working towards an exit rather than buying Lotus.
I thought manor and Mercedes had already done a deal?
If they have it hasn't been formally announced yet. Wouldn't be a surprise though.
So it'll be Ferrari Vs Merc to see how many times they can lap the Honda 🙄 Wow what a dull series.
What's the money on Red Bull pulling out soon as well?
So it'll be Ferrari Vs Merc...
Possibly - not sure how Ferrari are going to service 6 teams though! They are in line to supply...
Ferrari
Red Bull
Toro Rosso
Sauber
Haas F1
Manor (if Renault don't buy Lotus).
Bernie needs to be making some calls to make sure Renault stay.
or give honda teams the ability to use 10 engines a season. Its going to be a long 2016 season for everyone. I cant see any engine manufacturer jumping on the f1 bandwagon without 3-5 year preparation time.
Mehri out, Rossi in.
And Merhi recently announced he was quitting Formula Renault to concentrate on F1 - Bad timing! (or has run out of money?).
Mehri out, Rossi in.
That's Haas's 'no inexperienced drivers' problem sorted for next season then.
I wouldn't mind if we had only merc and Ferrari as major engine suppliers. Back in the day most of the grid ran the ford dfv with a few oddities like ferrari and alfa romeo, and that was what some people think of as the golden age. Trouble is that at the moment there's only 2 teams with both a serious budget and a decent pu, so everyone else is also rans. Homologate the pus and mandate a budget cap and you never know, we might get some racing...
the difference back then is Ford did not have a works team (IIRC) and supplied everyone with the same spec engine, next year it will Merc + Ferrari works teams and the B-spec rest...with Honda chasing the newly faster Manor-Merc at the back....
The Renault + Lotus deal is all but done, its bernie thats holding up the issue on if they meet the 'rules' for a "historic" team and get a nice 30m bonus cheque from him to enter next year just as RenaultF1.
...something about not counting Benneton Renault championship....
again these "rules" come down to simply Bernie discretion it seems
IMHO they are they only serious contender to break up the Ferrari/Merc domination at the front 2 spots - if they dont produce a good car for next year we could all be looking at a repeat of this year! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
edit - Ford : ok i was slightly wrong but also slightly right :WIKI:
"Initially, the agreement between Ford, Cosworth and Lotus was binding on all parties, and Ford as the funder had no plans to sell or hire the DFV to any other teams. However, it occurred to Hayes that there was no competition: the Ferrari engine was underpowered; the BRM complex and too heavy; the Maserati unreliable; the Honda overweight; while Dan Gurney's Weslake motor was powerful but unreliable.[4] Only Brabham's Repco V8 engine provided a usable combination of power and reliability, but its age and design left little room for further improvement. Hayes concluded that Ford's name could become tarnished if the Lotus were to continue winning against only lesser opposition, and that they should agree to use the unit in other teams, and hence potentially dominate Formula One.
At the end of 1967, Copp and Hayes gently explained to Chapman that he would no longer have monopoly use of the DFV and in August 1968 it was announced that the power unit would be available for sale, via Cosworth Engineering, to racing teams throughout the world.[5] Hayes released the DFV initially to French team Matra, headed by Ken Tyrrell with Jackie Stewart as a driver. What followed was a golden age, where teams big or small could buy an engine which was competitive, light, compact, easy to work with and relatively cheap (£7,500 at 1967 prices[6] or about £90,000 in 2005 money[7]). The DFV effectively replaced the Coventry Climax as the standard F1 powerplant for the private (mostly British) teams."
EDIT URL to wiki page because its such a great read about the engine
[url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth_DFV ]wiki[/url]
the paragraphs about F1 really show that back then it was all about experimentation, initiative, creative and exploring the limits of everything from engines, turbos, aero and drivers.
and what will wiki tell us in a few years about this ear of f1.....
Should've said that I'd include fuel, lubricant and engine mapping as part of homologation. That cuts out a lot of the works team advantage - guess they could still play with packaging to shift rads etc around. Agree that while merc have their secret super Mario engine mode on the car nobody else will match them for power.
Well silly season is coming, apparently the summer break marks start of the contract process.
Here is the current lines up. Whos staying and whos going? In Webber's sky interview he mentions a lot of drivers that shouldnt be on the grid. Who is he referring to?
Pretty much the only seats are Lotus, Manor,Haas and possibily half of Mclaren
Personally I'd like to see the drivers get round the track without mashing up their cars on the first few laps etc. It would be less of a spectacle if Pastor wasnt there. Oh and there is the Haas team as well ( 'experience needed there' )
Scuderia Ferrari Ferrari Sebastian Vettel / Kimi Räikkönen
India Sahara Force India F1 Team Sergio Pérez / Nico Hülkenberg
Lotus F1 Team Romain Grosjean / Pastor Maldonado
Manor Marussia F1 Team Will Stevens / Roberto Merhi /Rossi
McLaren Honda McLaren-Honda Fernando Alonso / Jenson Button
Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team Nico Rosberg / Lewis Hamilton
Infiniti Red Bull Racing Daniel Ricciardo / Daniil Kvyat
Sauber F1 Team Marcus Ericsson / Felipe Nasr
Toro Rosso Max Verstappen / Carlos Sainz, Jr.
Williams Martini Racing Felipe Massa / Valtteri Bottas
Who is he referring to
Mehri, Ericsson, Nasr, Stevens, Maldonado
A couple of those I'd argue are a little unfair but...
so as i stated previously a while back about RBR maneuvering to leave f1.... so, they are are now in a position to exit F1 before the 2020 agreement without penalty (because renault are not going to supply customer engines in 2016 and RBR might not take up a Ferrari engine option, and the agreement states that teams can leave if they are without a competitive engine supplier)
lets see what comes up in the next few months because bernie might step in/rule change/do something to try and keep RBR around with a decent engine...but...its not like ferrari and merc are going to want to do that in a hurry....
certainly it could end up my Red bull exits, someone else buys the team and runs it with a customer engine and it will probably have a name change!
It'll be bad for F1 short term, but good riddance I say. They came into F1 stating they wanted to be F1's good-time team, appeal to the youngsters and have some fun.
But have turned into the biggest bunch of old-fart whingers in F1 history.
RBR wouldn't get good value for their team if they leave now. Mateschitz might appear to be somewhat emotionally driven but he's a businessman foremost and won't want to sell while the team is at its lowest value.
Far better to get a deal with Ferrari, prove next year that the team is still competitive (Because this year's chassis with a Ferrari engine would be top 2 or 3 team) and then sell it.
Maybe if rbr had conducted themselves with a bit more dignity they wouldn't have so much trouble finding a new engine deal. For once I agree with b2b about this being an exit opportunity for them. They'd be too pricey for Renault to buy though so that's not a factor in the Lotus delays.
That's certainly true. I reckon that the Merc board would have signed up for it if they hadn't figured that there was a strong chance that if RBR weren't winning they'd soon enough blame Merc for not giving them the same spec of engine (which they wouldn't do to be fair but you don't hear Williams complaining or at least not directly).
8)
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Slacker, he's left at least a couple of cm spare there 😉
Maybe if rbr had conducted themselves with a bit more dignity they wouldn't have so much trouble finding a new engine deal.
Yep - I bet Ferrari want to insert loads of 'You can't say this, you can't say that' clauses into any contract!
nobody should look at this as RBR wanting to stay in F1 since the start of the season this year, if you look at it as the opposite, it all makes sense.
destroy your engine supplier's reputation, have no one work with you or have an available replacement, and your all clear to exit without paying 20million a year for each year from now till 2020.
and your all clear to exit without paying 20million a year for each year from now till 2020.
And therefore keep all that 'historic team' funding that other teams don't get.
And now it seems Eddie Jordan is claiming vw are planning a take over of red bull. Ferrari power and redbull sponsorship , with a vw pu arriving in a few years.
And alonso in 8th must be a sign that the chassis ain't so bad once you don't need the full ers effect. Make adjustments for the downforce they lose through having less power and they'd be in the mix. Ferdie just needs that miracle from Japan.
yeah because Alonso being 8th in practice has always reflected well in qualy.............oh no wait................. they are running qualy fuel mode while everyone else is working on race setup....why should mclaren when they wil retire the car with 4 laps from the end....
So I wonder how bernie feels about 3 teams going out of f1 by the end of the 2015 season.. Theres got to be some serious power broking going on there:)
I like the idea of VW entering the fray. But the problem is what happens when they have an economic downturn will the manufacturers go the same way as Toyota, bmw and ford before them?
is any car manufacturer going to enter f1 "clean" looking at the problems with Honda,
quite simply there needs to be a rule change , but the existing big teams at the top all have to agree it - and no one is going to do that just yet - i think if ferrari had been still midfield it would be a different story
i think everyone is waiting for what comes out of the pressures being applied for 2016 rule changes around testing and engine development - if f1 want newcomers, then the FIA and bernie are going to have force changes upon F1 and only then will new engines come in
Oh yes!!!!!!
should be an interesting race tomorrow !
nice to see the fact singapore was always going to suit the mclarens they were so high up - oh no wait......................................
I can't believe Vettel qualified 1.5 seconds ahead of the Mercedes!!! Where the hell did that come from?!?! Gonna be a great race tomorrow.
funny that mercs were back to the straight wing, perhaps they don't have a "high" downforce version.
Even if Singapore is a high down force low power track I just can't get my head round why red bull would be in front of Mercedes when the mercs have walked it all season.
Some good explanation [url= http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/09/what-is-going-on-with-mercedes-fall-from-grace-in-singapore/ ]here.[/url] 1.5 seconds though, that's pretty devastating!!
I'd like to see Max Verstappen pass a Mercedes tomorrow. That would certainly spice things up a little! 🙂
The start should be interesting.. i'm hoping kimi has his specsavers glasses on and gets out of the blocks. Personally would like to see kvyat get up there as he has been doing a great job on ricciardo.
Expect to see a safety car of some sort and probably vettel romping it home. The clash of the day will be rossi v stevens.
probably vettel romping it home
I've got this at the ready just in case
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Jeeze, this is getting tedious. How long to shift one bloody car??
Tyre management, how thrilling. Between this and Rugby Yawnion I could bore myself to death!
😯
That was unexpected!
jonnytheleyther - Member
Tyre management, how thrilling. Between this and Rugby Yawnion I could bore myself to death!
Didn't see SA v Japan yesterday then??!
some overtaking due to different tyre strategy/management - and apart from a man on the course - nothing much else happened....
the more i hear from Mercedes the more i think Bernie has asked them to "lose a few" for the viewing figures and him selling the TV rights a bit higher to Italy 🙂
[url= http://planetf1.com/news/lotus-retain-maldonado-for-2016/ ]Lotus Retain Maldonado[/url]
Either that boy is walking round with a massive pile of cash or he knows where a lot of bodies are buried.
His continued involvement in the sport is a bit of an embarrassment given some of the talent sat on the sidelines
Well there's no question about his (well, PDVSA's) pile of cash - £30m they reckon.
Interesting though as people thought him being retained would mean Renault weren't going to buy Lotus but that largely seems to be deal. The suggestion was that maybe Bernie wasn't going to pay Renault their money up front so they wanted the PDVSA money to keep things going at Lotus.
As to Singapore, reckon it was just a bad race for Merc and a particularly good one for Ferrari (well, Vettel).
Telegraph reporting that Button will quit at the end of this season and go to WEC. The timing (Japan) would make sense but I'd have thought he'd want one decent season to finish but maybe there's not much confidence that Honda will sort it out next season...
Autosport tells you everything you need to know
[url= http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120919 ]Autosport [/url]
Whole things nuts, PDVSA are in trouble with the current oil price so are borrowing billions from China, and then they give millions to an F1 team for what? While Bernie keeps taking more money.
As pointed out on the commentary yesterday (by Coulthard?) Maldonado also guarantees you a certain level of publicity and TV time.
Renault Boss blurted yesterday that Grosjean will be going to Haas; which is probably a good deal for him.
Maldo is a liability. But money really does talk.
Interesting comment yesterday that Merc's woes may have something to do with Pirelli's new minimum tyre pressure and their enforcement of it.
We'll see next race...
Telegraph reporting that Button will quit at the end of this season and go to WEC
Will be very interesting to see which WEC team he heads for. Porsche don't exactly need him, he doesn't strike me as particularly Audi like, and I cant see Toyota having the cash to meet his salary although I also cant see him struggling around in the Nissan until its properly sorted.
More interesting times ahead for F1's feeder series though!
BBC Sport are reporting the rumour that Button will retire at the end of the season. Seems like a good call for JB, he sounded like a broken man yesterday. I can't see Alonso being too happy about having a fast, young team mate tho.
JB was giddy as a schoolboy on Saturday on Sky F1. His post Qualy interview was great fun; good humoured, upbeat and funny.
It'll look good on his tv CV.
I can't see Alonso being too happy about having a fast, young team mate tho.
No one will be going fast in that McLaren Honda.
Anyway knowing that McLaren are likely to have money problems as sponsors leave, then any new driver is less likely to be fast and more likely to be rich.
It'll look good on his tv CV.
What, like "three times Le Mans winner Allan McNish" to give him his full name 😉
Perhaps Im a bit cynical but I do smell the long arm of Bernie wanting to make sure the championship goes to the last race to keep the TV and sponsor money happy.
Looks like someone in Michelin's F1 department is a mountain biker. [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34313145 ]According to the BBC[/url] they want to switch from 26" wheels to 28.3" Yeah they'll really bring the track to life...
FWIW I hope Bernie does keep the title going until the last race - I'm going 😉
@chrimac has it 🙂 i wonder if the super secret "concorde agreement" up to 2020 states that no one team can win more then 3 races in a row, and the championship cannot be decided before 3 races from the end - would not surprise me after bernies popped his cloggs a lot of skeletons come out of the cupboard
more bad news for bernie trying to sell tv rights....
[url= http://thejudge13.com/2015/09/21/uk-television-audience-collapses-for-singapore-gp/? ]figures collapse[/url]
the less popular the "stars" of the show the less you get people wanting to see them.
formula E final had 1.2m viewers in comparison. Bring it on !
more bad news for bernie trying to sell tv rights....
Not surprising when you sell it to Sky who then lock it behind closed doors. Needs to be back on BBC full time.
Not surprising when you sell it to Sky who then lock it behind closed doors. Needs to be back on BBC full time.
As long as the money keeps rolling in Bernie doesn't give a monkeys about viewing figures. Boxing seems to be awash with money at the to end but hardly anyone watches that now.
And F1 could be good for Audi now - after their US diesel scandal they may need to develop some new alternative technology!
VW Audi using dodgy hidden technology to get an advantage, yep they'll fit right in to F1 😉
Right now VW need as much money in the bank as they can, as the US might be about to take them to the cleaners. So I think that pretty much kills their investment in F1 if it was ever going to happen. But what will be the wider fall out as allegedly Renault may have similar issues so we'll have to see if that impacts on their F1 involvement.
In a world where the BBC are being squeezed for money by the government then the F1 deal looks bad. I'm not sure I can see them re-bidding in future.
If Bernie doesn't care about viewing figures then the teams should make him aware.
I'm fairly sure the sponsors are interested in viewing figures 😉
futon river crossing - Member
I'm fairly sure the sponsors are interested in viewing figures
Quite!
I'm fairly sure the sponsors are interested in viewing figures
I don't think that's always the case, F1 is a global brand, with the associated press coverage that this brings. If I was a multi-national company sponsoring F1 I'd be more interested in getting my brand on as many multi platform / country reports that hit as many eyes as possible (be it news reports / press coverage etc) rather than trying to appeal to a snapshot of a countries population who will watch the race live.
Its all a marketing tool, the actual race is just a very small part of it.
Latest driver gossip (and it is gossip so...)
Grosjean to Haas (not really new gossip)
Checo to Renault
Magnussen to FI
Kind of makes sense. KM would be better at a team that will hopefully allow him to prove himself but FI does seem to be a bit of a dead end for drivers
Magnussen to FI
...so Vandoorne to McLaren?
And Grosjean hoping to get Kimi's place in 2017.
Checo to Renault
This would be a shame, I was hoping to see Jean-Éric Vergne at Renault
Grosjean has signed for Haas
Grosjean has signed for Haas
Is that official now then?
Wouldnt surprise me if Button doesnt see out the season with McLaren - knowing Ron he'll let him escape, subject to a payment, to go off and do a WEC and he can put in a youngster to get up to speed with the car , due to limiting testing in season.
not sure why, but everyone in F1 is saying audi are in, and everyone in audi are saying no we are not....
is F1 trying to talk up their arrival to try and bluff others into looking into F1.
is that official now then
Think I jumped the gun slightly.
Reading the article back, it's not officially been confirmed yet
Winterkorns resigned from VW. That'll put F1 on the back burner I'd imagine. Wonder what Mr Horner's thinking at the moment
Wonder what Mr Horner's thinking at the moment
Time to polish up the CV!
Wow. This is big news! I guess VW were never meant to be in F1!
Wonder what Mr Horner's thinking at the moment
Don't trust a German or an Austrian?
It's not looking great for the caffiene sellers.
I was away so had a delayed catchup with Singapore - watched most of the race on fast forward. I hate to say it, but I'm starting to agree with the moaners who say it's got too boring and nothing much happens, I want to keep loving it, but that race was so dull.