[Closed] The F1 2015 thread...

anyway enuff of this trolling,

merc looking impressive in testing - has Ferrari taken a step back,
everyone will be talking about boring season once more and time for mega rule changes.....
..and so the f1 cycle continues..
will this be the state of our posts for each race to come i wonder?

ps. @hora for me
mansell, rosberg, all ferrari drivers except irvine and rubens, alesi, herbert, and ferrari-schumi when he returned to merc too.

anyone want to take a bet on the first wet race of the season and who will win it?

back2basics -
i noticed you failed to mention / desccribe the 95 season

... ps. @hora for me
mansell...

[i]I hear people saying they want F1 'fixed' but what does that mean?[/i]

For me a good place to start would be...

Tyres, they're shocking, either introduce some competition to Perilli or sort out the degradation issue (yes I know that's what Bernie wants)

Fuel management: F1 should be flat out 100% of the time, the fact that Mercedes can generally lap a second faster when it suits them reveals that drivers are having to manage fuel, and not driving to the limits.

Speed: The cars are going round too slow.

Looks: Yes I know it's subjective, but the current cars are shit looking.

Aerodynamics: That Hamilton was unable to close on Vettel or run closer than a second behind him is just stupid, the fact that they needed to introduce an artificial overtaking aid is even more stupider.

...Would go someway to fixing the issues

Its interesting the mirror of f1 and motogp where the haves and have nots are clear. One thing is Dorna does support the lower teams. There is still the problem of factory v customer teams.
Squinty eyes needs to stop making a show and start making a sport that generates interest.

Why do footie fans head off to watch a game and eat dodgy pies and sausage rolls? Its the expectation that their team might win and their presence might make a difference. The drivers are so detached from the fans, show us more of the teams ( the hard working guys at the factory and in the pits). I want to hear from Jason the jack man. If Kimi wont talk to the press how about the chef from ferrari?
There is a team in F1 !

F1 should be flat out 100% of the time...

F1 strategy group headed by bobby fernley makes a lot of noise about cost cap. This is the same team that moaned about Manor coming into the new season. Seems ironic he bases his cost cap points on keeping 6 teams going when he'd ideally wanted 5 teams and more money at the beginning of the season.

There are the racers and the moaners .. karma is coming for you Fernley.

I must admit I find the fuel management/DRS system plain stupid.

Cars are racing round in circles after being flown round the world every two weeks burning tbousands of gallons of aviation fuel into the atmosphere.

Jesus its like a large scale fraud of M&S 'plan A because there is no plan b' bollocks (M&S seem to use the most packaging for their products)

"show us more of the teams ( the hard working guys at the factory and in the pits). "

😀

F1 should be flat out 100% of the time...

During the Bridgestone/Refuelling era F1 was pretty much flat-out. And some of the races where very dull indeed.

You need something that adds an element of randomness, and with the drive to make engines more reliable that option has been taken away.

[quote=nickc ]Fuel management: F1 should be flat out 100% of the time, the fact that Mercedes can generally lap a second faster when it suits them reveals that drivers are having to manage fuel, and not driving to the limits.

I thought the Mercs weren't actually limited by total fuel allowance, hence that is nothing to do with them backing off (and if it was, it would be far more sensible to drive a little faster all the time and employ lift and coast etc. rather than burning lots in a single lap blast).

Looks: Yes I know it's subjective, but the current cars are shit looking.

Maybe not as pretty as the classics, but we have now seen what shit cars look like, and it's not this year's ones!

Aerodynamics: That Hamilton was unable to close on Vettel or run closer than a second behind him is just stupid, the fact that they needed to introduce an artificial overtaking aid is even more stupider.

Which is indeed a problem. Has been a problem in general - and more particularly at Barcelona - ever since aero downforce was introduced. The trouble is, solving that one is likely to make the cars slower, which presumably isn't what you want? In any case it's certainly not an issue at most of the circuits - plenty of overtaking even without the use of DRS recently.

[quote=the-muffin-man ]You need something that adds an element of randomness

I still reckon all circuits need sprinkler systems which are switched on at a random time in each race (in order to give the teams an impression of being in control, simulated weather forecasts of variable accuracy shall be supplied). Has a wet race ever been boring?

Tyres:

I'm pretty sure Pirelli could easily make tyres that survive a race distance, but it would be bloody boring if they did. Tyre deg and how teams adapt to it, having driver on different strategies adds to the racing rather than detracts from it.

Speed:

Current F1 cars are only a couple of second slower than the 3.5 litre V10s which hold the lap records.

Aero:

Agree this is an issue, the answer could be more downforce generated by ground effect. Front wings with less elements but ran closer to the ground, larger rear diffuser (still without any of the blown diffuser nonsense) would help the cars run closer without them losing too much downforce and therefore lap time.

Overtaking:

In a race where the cars start in order from fastest at the front to slowest at the back overtaking doesn't logically follow!
Personally I don't have an issue with DRS it works well to get cars which are out of position back up the field, if cars are evenly matched than it can make for some fun battles as they pass and re-pass each other. Get shot of tracks where its very difficult to overtake!

Cant the FIA just add weight to handicap the faster cars like in touring cars to even the field up a bit ?

Then you get a big strategic push to be in a promising position with the minimum weight penalty heading into the final rounds, and the FIA (like us all) want to just see everyone going for the win week in week out.

With regards to aero, I know this has been brought up before, but for me I think the less aero the better. I know the comparison has been made that the best races are wet races where mechanical grip is massively cut, but I also suspect that the resulting chop in aero plays a big part. Big tyres, no wings, that's what I'd vote for.

Bring back these:

[img] [/img]

That (pre-wings and Gold Leaf sponsorship) is my favourite racing car ever (except maybe the 917).

I did like the first silly tall rear wing too. Most beautiful f1 car ever.

And Chapman's genius at a level that the rules forbid even now - have the wings apply downforce to the wheels directly through the stub axles, so you can set the chassis up to handle, rather than manage downforce. Dude was a twisted genius. 🙂

After the first race, the grid goes in reverse championship order. Points all down the field.

At least you'd know that the championship winner worked for it, but also it would ask questions of when was the right time to attack. Now it's always as soon as possible because the cars at the front are about to disappear.

nothing out of the big F1 meeting yesterday, apart from "customer cars" on the horizon,
another band-aid plaster over the issues, let the bigger teams get bigger and other teams die and becomes 'B' teams.

eg:
$125million gets your a year old ferrari chassis + powertrain + gearbox for 1 season - small print "you cannot ever overtake A team"
please sign here.
F1 is great again.

That small print already exists to some degree...

Refuelling's back for 2017 - wish I hadn't mentioned it now. 🙁

😡

Until the first pit-lane fire....

Load of old bollix if you ask me.

What's needed is a cheaper power unit, better tyres, less reliance on paying drivers, a standardised aero package (ie wings are FIA standard for all teams), something that sounds like a 1995 Ferrari V12 or a 2001 Williams BMW and drivers who speak their minds and get pissed a lot.

Oh and "Sex - The Breakfast of Champions" to become the official McLaren team motto.

And refuelling was bollix in 2008 and is bollix now.

I still reckon all circuits need sprinkler systems which are switched on at a random time in each race (in order to give the teams an impression of being in control, simulated weather forecasts of variable accuracy shall be supplied). Has a wet race ever been boring?

That would be brilliant.

I still reckon all circuits need sprinkler systems which are switched on at a random time in each race (in order to give the teams an impression of being in control, simulated weather forecasts of variable accuracy shall be supplied). Has a wet race ever been boring?

Even better would be allowing the teams to fit 'Wacky Races' style add-ons - oil-slicks, smoke screens, nails dropped, tyre cutters, detour signs...!

Indy, but... 😯
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/motorsport/32751484

Just show what can happen when aero goes wrong

I've never been a fan of F1 as a fuel consumption event. Bring back V12s, loads of fuel, free tyres and reduce aero.

Drivers assigned randomly to teams/cars for each race weekend

You're all harking back to the past, unfortunately the engine manufacturers and eco-worries won't allow that to happen.

What I think F1 needs is the following:

Allow refuelling so the cars can run light all race, also reintroduces the strategy element.

Keep the fuel flow limit so that the engineers work on improving the efficiency of the hybrid unit, run it flat out all race. This can be raised to get more power and lowered to rein the engines in if they get too quick.

Bigger wheels and tyres, 16-17" would fit the cars well.

Reduce the wing sizes to miniscule levels, something like they use at Monza. That way they are used to tune the handling balance only.

Allow a bit of ground effect to generate the cornering speeds.

Wider track on the suspension, with the wider tyres mechanical grip would be
better.

Get rid of DRS, it's artificial and rarely adds anything.

Allow free choice on tyres but limit them to only having 4 options: one that will last all race, two that will need to be changed mid-race (one harder, one softer) and a banzai soft option that would last 10-15 laps. They're allowed only two compounds for the weekend and have to use both in the race unless they go for the all-race option. Possibly give all teams the one control option for qualifying to even things up.

On the political side:

Redistribution of the funds for competing.

Move back towards classic circuits that reward driver skill and promote overtaking opportunities.

Reduce the influence certain teams have over the rules.

Doubt most of it will happen but you can hope!

Allow refuelling so the cars can run light all race, also reintroduces the strategy element.

But don't make it mandatory. If you're on the tyres that'll go a full race distace, you don't want to stop for fuel.

I've never been a fan of F1 as a fuel consumption event.

F1 has always been a fuel consumption event, it's just we know more about it now as we are privy to so much more information that in the past. The size of the engine and the fuel tank doesn't change that.

The idea is to get to the checkered flag as fast as possible, brimming the tank and going flat out is not the fastest way as the heavy fuel makes you slow at the start, wears your tyres more etc. This was true in the 70s, 80s and 90s. But back then without telemetry and radios we just saw excitement as one car closed in on another and tried to pass, we were blissfully unaware that the speed differential was due to someone trying to save fuel. Now we have the same dynamic but a comentator who understands what's happening, pit radio so we hear the driver being told to save fuel etc. The end result is the same, driver closes/pulls away but it seems more benign once we know its about fuel saving.

Refueling doesn't change this, the less fuel you use the longer you are stationary in the pits, the less you wear out your tyres etc.

Whether you like it or not going racing will always be about managing fuel unless you make the fuel a lesser element of the total weight of the car. But heavier cars wouldn't be fast and F1 needs to be the fastest or it's not F1.

It's basically a catch 22 where the thing that made the pinacle of motorsport exciting has been engineered out by the reletless technological improvement. But this cannot be unlearned and going back to the past will not make the future more exciting.

IMO, F1 needs to take the shackels off a bit, allow more inventive solutions, be nearer the edge, faster. The issue with that is cost and safety and they are (rightly) paranoid about killing drivers. But I feel safety has advanced suffiecntly to allow cars to go faster due to more powerful engines and more efficent aero. Cost is harder to police but more scope in the rules would mean someone with a idea could make a leap rather than just working within very tight margins trying to outspend everyone on CFD and wind tunnel analysis of every minutiae of every surface.

So stop tinkering round the edges with re-fueling and tyre compounds as they will make f all difference. Do 2 things...
a) Allow ground effect areo by getting the front wing closer to the ground and shape the floor.
b) Allow more powerful engines

Done.

But don't make it mandatory. If you're on the tyres that'll go a full race distance, you don't want to stop for fuel.

That'll be up to how big they design the fuel tanks, a compromise on car design balanced against strategy flexibility. Guarantee everyone will go for a smaller tank. Possibly make it so that while the car is stationary you can either fuel it or change tyres, not both at the same time. Same as they do at Le Mans.

So stop tinkering round the edges with re-fueling and tyre compounds as they will make f all difference. Do 2 things...
a) Allow ground effect aero by getting the front wing closer to the ground and shape the floor.
b) Allow more powerful engines

Done.

Also known as Can-Am 🙂

Refueling gets banned to encourage closer racing and "spice it up".
Then refuelling comes back to encourage closer racing and "spice it up"
Whats wrong with F1 is that it disappeared so far up its own whatoosie its become a shadow of its former self. Reliability, even with the new hybrid engines is so high the lower teams cant hope to get a good payday. The idea of the drivers hitting ideal delta times because the tyres are made of cheese are a joke. The cars need more power, and the tools to lay that down on the track. If it means stock bodywork then so be it.
Decrease the technical regs, stop knee jerk reactions to clever engineering (mass damper anyone?), revert back to pushing the technology so if its a 65 lap race the engine will pop on lap 66.
And whilst we're at it bring back the fag money and decent liveries.
Humph! makes me sound like an old man.

The fat controller wants more money
wants more money, wants more money
The fat controller wants more money, wants more money

all day long

F1 drivers/team owners go wah wah wah.
Wah wah wah. Wah wah wah.
The F1 drivers/team owners go wah wah wah. Wah wah wah.

all day long

The re-fuelling rig goes on and off
on and off, , on and off
The re-fuelling rig goes on and off, on and off

all day long

The TV audience switches off

Truly an entertainment industry in trouble {shakes head}{rolls eyes}

lets get rid of ol squinty eyes and get someone who has some fresh ideas. The current lot dont know their arse from their elbow. It clearly shows they havent got a clue and are miles away from anything that attracts new fans. When squinty says he doesnt care about getting younger fans it says it all.
No fans no money no show.

For each Championship point a driver has, he must eat a square of Ex-Lax before the race. You could have bogs at the pits, perhaps with those short doors so you can see the drivers faces while they're having a 'pit stop'.

1000!

(bhp)

Refueling cars in 3s now that sounds safe.....

[quote=sobriety ]

Allow refuelling so the cars can run light all race, also reintroduces the strategy element.

Except the weight makes so much difference to the performance that if refuelling is allowed, the optimum strategy will never be to avoid pitting, even if you're not allowed to change tyres. Hence allowing refuelling will always rule out the option of having tyres which will go the full race distance (wasn't there a season where refuelling was allowed but tyre changes weren't and they still pitted for fuel?) Unless you have the rule suggested above that you can't fuel and change tyres at the same time - though it would have to be that you weren't allowed to do both in the same pitstop, otherwise doing both would clearly be the best strategy.

To be honest, the option of tyres which go the full distance wouldn't make any sense anyway if there was the option of different faster tyres - would only have to be 0.5s a lap advantage to make pitting for tyres worth it, which is less than the typical difference between the current compounds.

F1 has always been a fuel consumption event...

Also known as Can-Am

F1 Strategy Group looking to reverse overtaking gimmicks [url= http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2015/05/new-ideas-for-f1-2017-to-undo-much-of-overtaking-groups-work/ ]James Allen on F1[/url]
I probably have a bit of a controversial opinion but I actually like the way that it's easier to overtake in F1 these days! I found it frustrating when the aero design was so far advanced that it meant that if a driver got close to the car in front they would lose speed because of the turbulence and not be able to pass. Oh well!

He's signed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/32812577

CHeaper than I thought...Unless he knows bonuses drive/motivate him

I'd rather see the overtaking on the track, not in the pitlane. It's meant to be motor racing, not bloody chess.

I do like the idea of the ex-lax though. That one has mileage...imagine, driver comes into the pits, exits the car and runs to the karzy, whilst holding stomach and assumes the position. Meanwhile, two mechanics stand by to remove soiled shreddies and refit new shreddies, while the lollipop man waits for a signal that the driver has satisfactorily completed the required paperwork. Once the lollipop is raised, the driver now sprints back into the car and drives off.

I can imagine the post race podium might be a bit of a mess though.

It's in line with Vettel and Alonso which seems about right - the big three tied into the three big teams (Well, RB seem to be self destructing right now...)

PJM1974 - and a whole different penalty for an "unsafe release"...

Yes but Alonso's is a combination of compo for embarrasement/danger money 😆

Lewis [s]couldnt[/s]agrees new deal with [s]ferrari[/s]Mercedes for 3 years, lets see how long his "happy face" stays around for.

For everyone whining about the state of F1 - this is your best chance to have your say:

http://gpda.motorsport.com/

I think I was wrong about the new McLaren livery - it looks great out on track. The nearly black seems to look more menacing than the gloss black of the Lotus.

[img] [/img]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?attachment_id=298776

Agreed, it looks great! 🙂

Wow that GPDA questionnaire was a pile of turd, the problem with F1 is that it isn't really the top formula - There is better technology and racing in far more categories at present, if anything F1 just seems a little lost. I did enjoy the sponsorship questions and being able to reel off 'baccy companies as being the most memorable though.

Some great points being made by Christian Horner about the F1 Strategy Group here: [url= http://www.pitpass.com/53926/Strategy-Group-not-fit-for-purpose ]Pipass[/url]. Basically, no point in giving the turkeys a deciding vote on whether or not to have Christmas! 🙂

Big question now is can McLaren find a seat for Vandoorne or will JB get the bump. Best driver GP2 has seen since LH. When I watched Lewis in GP2 I was always impressed by his raw speed and overtaking ability. With Vandoorne he seems to have lighting pace but also fantastic mindset, he seems to get absolutely everything out of the car while keeping his head, reminds me of Alonso.

I'm looking forward to seeing him soon then! 🙂

I dont understand why they dont have a 3rd driver series with reserve / rookies driving. They leave gp2 and sit in the garages " learning via fp1" It doesnt even have to be at every race maybe a handful to provide more of a " show" of talent. They could get familiar with the procedures and car and have a mini rookie series. Would keep the current drivers on their toes!

I just wish McLaren spent some time and effort into actually making a car for Alonso that worked. JB will always find fault and a reason for a lackluster drive, but Alonso deserves a car.

Horner being the biggest hypocrite in a sport full of them, when Red Bull were in their pomp he was very dismissive of people saying that the rules need to change to make it fairer, now when his team is running a dog he wants the rules to change.

Wasnt the reason the way F1 is ruled now is because Ferrari had a veto on all rules by the FIA unless they can say it was for safety grounds, so this group was then setup after Max Mosely got booted out...back then they said it was the best thing since sliced bread for the sport, but as stated above, turkeys will never vote for christmas.

personally i think this is Horners last year at RBR, perhaps taking up a learning role next to bernie in prep for bernies departure, hence all his shouting about where the sport needs to go and how it should get there....

funny, i used to want to root for a rainy GP, but now its so sanitised even when it rains, they fling out the safety car at any point , drs is turned off, drivers cant lap any faster that XYZ time to get to the pits so it all becomes a stalemate, unless someone risks staying out, and they can either be hero or zero within a few laps of safety car....

According to the beeb Vettel wants more fear in F1. Judging by the beeb's second story a few old diggers around the circuit should do that. 😕
Does nobody check this stuff?

[IMG] [/IMG]

Not the best layout there, but he does have a point, compared to WEC and WTCC F1 just seems a bit, well, safe.

It's a combination of dull as dishwater tracks and the drivers having to conserve fuel, and more importantly tyres, meaning that they rarely really push the cars hard. Whereas WEC and WTCC are on the limit more or less every lap.

Also, look at some of the circuits WTCC and WEC race at, Le Mans, Spa (ok so F1 goes there), Nordschelife, Bathhurst (IIRC); tracks where if you make a mistake you don't just trundle off into acres of run-off, you're in a wall/gravel trap/cliff. F1 cars are, imo, safe enough for those tracks, the only injuries in recent years have been from freak impacts to drivers heads.

Bring back penatlies in terms of dnfing for making mistakes.

wow that boy can drive !

As much as I've enjoyed watching Kimi in the past, I think this should be his last year in F1. Get Bottas or Hulk into that 2nd Ferrari - they need two drivers pushing to the limit, not just a single leader.

And hard luck on Jenson - that yellow flag really screwed his lap up.

Cara looked absolutely smashed when she was interviewed

Who's Cara?

that mclaren is a right dog!

rickyardo ?

wonder if vettel can crack britney 🙄

Crap.

stupid mercedes

Well that's ballsed it up for Hamilton - big mistake

this unlapping is rubbish

Why did they pit HAM? I'm just listening on the radio. Sounds like a bloody silly idea anyway.

stitched up by his own team.

That's ruined my afternoon now - HOW can they make such a cock-up.

gutted - even worse is Rosbergs smug smiley face.