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yelling at the RHS midfield to be getting back on cover
Which is different from what I said exactly how? Except you abbreviated right hand side. You seem confused that people are allowed to disagree with your opinion.
And that was well above the foot,
and it was VAR checked so the officials in Switzerland agreed (or at least didn’t disagree)
Did you see the Spanish penalty? The spanish player's ankike actually bent into a delightful curve due to the studs artfully placed on it. That was VAR reviewed and not turned into a red card. So apparently inconsistency doesn't mean some of the refs some of the time, it means all of the refs but one, all of the time.
Anyhoo, anytime you want of get back to exchanging ideas about football instead of personal point scoring, I'm down.
Its almost sometimes like some of the UEFA bureaucrats have never played the game.
So a snapshot of how the rules committee works:. At a tournament like this, gather your rules committee together. They are uniformly insiders as bent as any tory politician with a ppe contract I. His back pocket. They are also all over retirement age. The only way to get them off the prostitutes you may or may not have allegedly provided is to offer them a 5 or 6 course lunch of the most delicious and heavy foods you can find. Each course with its own wine choice natch. After this sumptuous repast, during the brandy and cigars, you try to get them to agree on and vote for some convoluted rule changes
Once you have seen how the rules committee works, you begin to understand how the game has become what it has.
There isn't a lot of science there, is there? 2 guys from a different team had a conversation in the tunnel, are classified as at risk contacts. Guys who have shared training, change rooms, team recreation sessions, shared physio's and trainers are totally not at risk.
Euro 2020. Brought it you by the letters W, T, and F.
I'm sensing some people have points they wish to get across....🤔
What the big deal?
Chilwell hasn't played yet and Mount is just one of many midfielders. They're not Messi or Maldini
What the big deal?
I think it is simply a case of the exclusions being another story reflecting the ongoing challenges the wider world is experiencing during the covid crisis.
Southgate is playing 2 holding midfielders again in a 4-2-3-1
Pickford
Walker, Stones, Maguire. Shaw
Phillips. Rice
Saka, Grealish, Sterling
Kane
Well that was interesting. Still not at all convinced Southgate knows his best team yet. Saka looked a live wire, but not a winger. Walker and Shaw offered desperately needed width but only when they could get forward. There were a lot of times in the second half when the Czech were pressing the defenders in possession. They were looking for an out ball but the central third was completely clogged. No one up front was pulling wide. It's not a new problem for England but I don't get how they have gone this many years without solving it. The forward and mids were literally bumping into each other.
Kane looked a bit more awake but definitely still off the pace.
Unfortunate for Scotland that Modric suddenly found a vein of form.
When I saw the team before the match, I wondered how the hell Southgate had selected Saka ahead of Sancho and Rashford, but he was man of the match for me.
Shaw, Rice Philips and Walker are dwelling on the ball far too much not, seeing the runs and movement of the forward line quick enough allowing the opposition to get into a good defensive shape so that when the ball does move up the pitch it needs something special to break the lines, or more frequently ends up with the forward players trying to run into gaps that don't exist. Henderson did better in that respect for the first 5-10 mins, then just settled into the same pattern of play. I think those patterns of play are down to the training and instructions from the manager.
Maguire's prat fall was just embarrassing, he should have been fighting to get the ball in the net, and instead decided to do a flop Norman Wisdom would have been proud of, lucky not to get booked for that.
Ach well, we'd have got pumped in the knockout stages anyway.
. I think those patterns of play are down to the training and instructions from the manager.
Rice is much more attacking for West Ham than he is for England, so I can only assume he is playing to instructions.
Rice and Phillips play for mid table clubs (ok West Ham over-achieved last season) and have never played in the Champions League. You need more quality and experience in the middle of the park than that, ie, Croatia last night.
My doubts about Saka were never about his ability, but his position. He is very versatile but the one thing he isn't - so far - is a winger. So he was another guy cutting inside. Sterling ended up inside, Grealish had to go wide to find space but that's not where he is going to do damage from.
The Henderson sub was weird. He is fine as a player but he has an eye for the quick ball forward. Which is fine when it works but it often turns over possession. Not what you want if you are trying to kill a game off. That improved when Phillips dropped into the pivot role. He showed maturity and guile, took the pace out. After that point England held onto the ball and slowed the game down.
I think they are back to the Lampard -Gerrard-Scholes-Beckham-Rooney problem. Too many talented 'must start' players who just can't play together. When Sterling was running behind Kane from wide they looked threatening. Otherwise you could throw a blanket over the 3 forwards and 2 mids and still hit the centre circle.
It was pretty dull overall. I can't see the teams in The Group of Death getting too worried about England
Tonight's games should be much more interesting
Kane doesn't look fit to me, so slow and off the pace.
I can’t see the teams in The Group of Death getting too worried about England
I don't know - England are more than capable of turning up when they have to and it would take a foolish manager to write them off.
You need more quality and experience in the middle of the park than that, ie, Croatia last night.
They played the Czech Republic last night. I would also argue that Rice and Phillips face tougher opponents in the PL than they've faced in any of the group stage games.
I've barely watched a game of football in years, but WTF has happened to the England team? They look bloody terrified of actually playing the game. The forwards are standing still with their backs to goal, the midfielders don't seem to understand the concept of passing it forwards, and the defenders have perfected the art of passing it sideways to each other or back to the keeper. It's like watching a team in reverse gear. I can only conclude that Southgate's strategy is to progress via 1 nil wins or penalty shootouts because he doesn't think any of them are good enough to play an attacking game. I can see now why I stopped watching a few years back 🙂
They had their moments in the first half but generally England are pretty terrible to watch.
They have however coasted through the group as winners so I don't think people can really complain (except of course people can complain about anything).
I expect it will be put down to "tournament football" but it's not been very good to watch. First half of the match last night was a lot better and we looked a bit more attack minded. There was definitely more of a spark to them. The second half was a weird mixture of frustrating and terrifying. Slow, slow, defensive, slow just gets dull to watch. And then our defence seem to conspire to remove any shred of confidence in them by allowing themselves to be played backwards and resorting to Pickford having to lump it forward - what I would have thought was the very thing they are trying to avoid by playing it from the back. I can imagine most other countries looking at our defence and licking their lips. And although he scored I did think Sterling had another rank game. Watching him play for England is mystifying. He has a reputation at club level of being a great player. ON the basis of what I see in an England shirt, I would struggle to put him in our local pub team. Let's hope we step up a few gears in the next round or we will be out.
Is Sterling the new scapegoat?
He's scored both of England's goals, is a constant nuisance to the opposition. If it's running at defenders or making runs away - his movement & anticipation for the goal was superb. He scored with a header & is one of the shortest players on the pitch.
It looks like Southgate's ploy is to bore the opposition to death. But if we won it with a series of 1-0's would that make it any less of win?
(Greece I'm looking at you)
EDIT:
I think Southgate has set us up to play on the break, great against better teams, not so good against teams we are supposed to dominate. This feels like one of the most creative group of players we have ever had & we're ignoring that side of the game.
Southgate is on a loser tbh, same as most international managers.
I watched Rangers playing some fantastic football last year, particularly in Europe, passing and moving like I've never seen us doing before, I remember watching us getting humped 4-0 from Juventus many years ago and wishing we could play like that, and last season at times we did.
Anyway, when lockdown started last spring, they had 3 months together, Gerrard (but more importantly Michael Beale, the coach) had them in daily, working on possession, phases, overloads, all that stuff that modern footballers require, and I'm pretty sure the seasons success was based on that.
Gareth Southgate will never get time to work like that, all he can do is try to get the best he can out of a group of individuals, a lot of which are not as good as they think they are.
I knew Saka would shine if he got a chance, he's young but he's not afraid to take responsibility. If Walker had passed to him the 3 or 4 times Saka made a run down the byeline we might be better placed to make a judgement on his abilities as a winger. Walker could have also overlapped with Saka and got down the wing and put a cross or two in himself.
Gareth Southgate will never get time to work like that, all he can do is try to get the best he can out of a group of individuals,
True. That is modern National team football. You can either be Spain or Germany, have players who have gone through a uniform development process and who play together at club level, or you take the pragmatic approach. Solid, well drilled defence, because that can be done in a relatively short period and a player or two up front who can create and score off not much, Ronaldo, Messi, etc etc. Even if they don't the potential creates mistakes in the opposition
Is Sterling the new scapegoat?
Not for me, he is exactly as I expected. A superb player in a Man City side, where he has good players around him and is given a narrow role to do, which he does very well. It makes the best of him in a way that a broader role in the England side doesn't.
we might be better placed to make a judgement on his abilities as a winger.
Maybe. Seen him play at wingback, where he liked pretty good. Looks pretty comfortable in the centre of midfield. I don't think he'll ever be a pure wide attacker. I don't think that's how he sees the game. He might develop it but there is only so much you can play against type. Ask Thierry Henri.
I remember watching us getting humped 4-0 from Juventus many years ago
As one of the few Italian kids (at least, distantly Italian, in my case) in a predominantly Rangers supporting Oban school, that was indeed a glorious day 😁.
I would probably have been beaten up for wearing my Juve top into class the next day but most of the tough kids cared more about shinty anyway, and the rest were probably trying to figure out if Juventus had the 'correct' religious affiliation or not 🙄
@inkster, same can be said of Foden, the last two games he was getting into good positions and not getting a pass, then he would get passed to when he was boxed in with nowhere to go.
And to be honest all the front players, with all the holding midfielders and full backs failing to find the right balls to feed them, I think walker is a little unfortunate to get singled out, Shaw, Rice and Philips were doing the same things. Then you get Maquire and Stones pushing out from the back too often because the players that should be moving upfield aren't
In the commentary when Pickford made a long pass that nearly had had Sterling in on goal, he got praised for his ballplaying ability, but far more often he dawdled on the ball, and made a long pass that gave the Czech's possession. His kicking was actually pretty poor, and IMO he was the one slowing the game down a lot when used as a sweeper keeper. He maybe ok to pass back to when they have to, but his kicking ability isn't good enough to use him as an extra player to break the press like Ederson does for city.
A superb player in a Man City side, where he has good players around him and is given a narrow role to do, which he does very well. It makes the best of him in a way that a broader role in the England side doesn’t.
A narrow role at city? Which teams give their forward players more wide ranging roles than city under Pep? They rotate in attack, press from the front, then are expected (demanded) to get back and help defend.
Not sure any of the England squad think they are better than they really are, they certainly seem a lot less full of themselves than players from the previous couple of generations. They seem less cliquey and wear the shirt with a little more ease, probably because Southgate has had an influence across all age groups in the England set up so players feel more involved from an early age so are less daunted when the big call up comes.
He may not be the best manager in the world but he's got the England set up running better than before. One thing we can all agree on though is that he's good at managing expectations. England may have been poor against the Scots but neither Southgate nor the players got caught up in the moment the way the fans and the media did. It was always going to be Scotland's biggest moment and they came to play and gave it their all. A damp squib of a nil, nil draw suited England's preparation better than a physically and emotionally draining banstormer of a 3-2 game.
The Czecks had settled for a 1-0 loss during the second half in last nights game and England beat the world cup finalists in the first game. Can't see what the problem is myself?
Dubravka 🤦♂️
A narrow role at city? Which teams give their forward players more wide ranging roles than city under Pep? They rotate in attack, press from the front, then are expected (demanded) to get back and help defend.
Look at where he scores. Think it's a coincidence they all look the same? Pep manages by remote control. The players do exactly what he tells them to do. He follows the script he is given. That's what I mean by narrow role. Give him a job to do he's fine, tell him to busk it - he's just not that kind of player.
Yeah if only he hadn't stayed in his position last night, maybe when Grealish took the ball to the left, if he had cut inside and drifted over to the right post beyond the opposite winger he could have got a goal.
He does that kind of movement far more with city, the trouble is a don't think Southgate wants them to do that as much. His role with England is far more constrained than at club level.
Yeah if only he hadn’t stayed in his position last night, maybe when Grealish took the ball to the left, if he had cut inside and drifted over to the right post beyond the opposite winger he could have got a goal.
So tell me, oh great sarcasmo, what's about the biggest thing you drill into attackers so they don't have to busk it? When the front guy goes back post to front, go back post, there will probably be space. Any 10 year old who has had a decent coach knows that one. Exactly the opposite of busking it.
These two matches have turned into goalfests
This Spain game is the most one-sided in the tournament so far. Could have been a lot more than 5-0
Spain finally found their movement, width and finishing. They aren't the Spain of old and I don't think they can be but they look a much better side.
Is this the birth of a new school of defending? Forget about getting the ball, just block the attackers swing, make sure he kicks you, win free kick. Something tells me it won't catch on.
but his kicking ability isn’t good enough to use him as an extra player to break the press like Ederson does for city.
Any chance you're a City fan? Pickford - 20% more passes per game than Ederson, 300% more accurate long passes. The one thing Pickford has been almost universally praised for is his kicking/passing ability.
Have you ever watched Ederson? He's so much better than Pickford at distribution. You're relying on stats but in this case it's quantitative not qualitative e.g. Mertersacker had the most passes in the league in one of his latter seasons. So what ... 90+% of them were 10m left or right
What's your prediction for tonight's games?
Great diving header for Hungary - 1-0 against Germany!
What's with all the bitching on here BTW? I mean, I know, it's STW but IT'S ONLY A GAME LADS
C'mon Germany !
How the hell can you give a penalty as the keeper has punched the forward in the head but yet give a yellow not a red?!
Because he didn't punch him in the head? Caught him with a follow through.
I'm just glad to see a pen/yellow given against a goalie they usually get away with almost anything.
BTW Portugal, France, Germany are all looking decidedly average, Spain looked awful until they won 5-0 today. Do they have the same gnashing and wailing in all those countries as we do?
Well var has been praised at this tournament, but that is insane, no way var shouldn't have overturned that, or at least the ref should have been asked to look at it on the monitor.
Letting that stand is just encouraging people to go over in the box with the slightest contact. What was the defender actually supposed to do in that situation? He didn't appear to deviate his run to block Mbappe at all.
What was the defender actually supposed to do in that situation?
Go for the ball not the player, just running into the opposition to get them off the ball is how to give away penalties. Lloris was definitely going for the ball but still deserved his yellow card. Two good judgements.
Portugual looking good, France middling.
Huh! The second decision certainly was not a penalty.
Mbappe initiated the collision, not the Portuguese defender who was just holding his line.
You have a ref's decision confirmed by the video people, what more do you want?
You reckon Benzema was offside too?
You have a ref’s decision confirmed by the video people, what more do you want?
I want the correct decision, unfortunately this time var have looked for an excuse to confirm the refs mistake, rather than correct it.
Good thing now is that England get Hungary in the next round if it stays like this.
What more do I want? A game played with a fair decision, holding someone off in the penalty area is part of the physical aspect of the game.
Your slow-mo obviously wasn't the same as on TV here.
Another good call from the ref and it's two all.
Wow 2-1 Hungary !
Do they have the same gnashing and wailing in all those countries as we do?
They certainly do in Spain, no idea about the rest.
This is turning into a bit of a classic now.
Finally something positive, MSP , quite a performance from two teams already qualified in which the loser gets the easiest ride from here in.
and that one should have been a penalty.
Well the group of death properly living up to its billing
Germany-England then. 🙂
In one of my random bets I’ve put a fiver on Engerland going out in a penalty shoot out (at 5/1) and now they’ve got Germany 😂
Why are Portugal 3rd,with equal goal difference but more goals scored?
The tournament came alive for me tonight. Haven't really got into it so far, what with the lack of a host country therefore meaning it has lacked an identity IMO. And coming so soon after a compressed season. But tonight with a top game (second half anyway) with a bit of controversy and the swings in the group positions, it's been a bit of proper evening of entertainment.
Belgium Portugal will be tasty. France in second gear tonight, got the impression they could have stepped things up if required.
Good drama but 4 penalties in a game, most of them dubious - meh
Why are Portugal 3rd,with equal goal difference but more goals scored?
It must be on goals conceded rather than scored. Think goals scored would be the better metric. i.e. favour the more attacking side.
You have a ref’s decision confirmed by the video people, what more do you want?
You have an on-field decision judged to be not obviously wrong enough to overturn. Big difference.
Have you ever watched Ederson? He’s so much better than Pickford at distribution. Y
Yep. Ederson is good with his feet. In fact, one criticism of Pep is that he'll take a worse shot stopper with better feet. Pickford is also recognised for the quality of his kicking game.
What’s your prediction for tonight’s games?
Sorry, was watching the games so no time to answer til now. My predictions were both games would finish 2 all. I even wrote it down in case I needed to prove it after the fact. Hang on, let me get a pen and I'll show you.
VAR and the refs didn't have a great day, was it 5 or 6 dodgy pens?
Letting that stand is just encouraging people to go over in the box with the slightest contact
That horse bolted so long ago its glue by now. Still let it never be said the FIFA won't close the barn door at some point.
Why are Portugal 3rd,with equal goal difference but more goals scored?
It must be on goals conceded rather than scored. Think goals scored would be the better metric. i.e. favour the more attacking side.
Not that it matters now, but it goes by the goal difference between the teams that are on the same points, so as Portugal lost to Germany 4-2 they were -2, Germany +2
I know it’s not about the Euros specifically, but UEFA have abolished the away goals rule for European ties next year. It’s been around for about 50 years I think.
Interesting, and probably the correct decision but I think I’ll miss it! Always added a bit more intrigue to big European ties in my opinion.
wasn't it partly introduced to stop the away teams just shutting up shop. be going back to 2 points for a win next.
They've binned it for extra time and penalties
It will just make the games even duller
Dull, maybe but far greater opportunities for the betting companies that sponsor the teams and competitions.
Well the original intention was to stop the away team shutting up shop and just defending. But now the opposite has happened and because of the "extra" bonus of an away goal, the home teams shut up shop and defend.
I kind of agree with UEFA's logic on this one, there are arguments to be made either way, but it is at least worth trying.
Has anyone ever watched extra time and not thought 'well that's half an hour of my life I'll never get back'?
Euro 96 semi final springs to mind
MSP - away goals was also brought in because of some of the dark arts apparently that went on. Deliberately dodgy pitches, suspicious refereeing etc which gave the home side an extra advantage. Apparently over the years the amount of away wins has increased as these issues have reduced, hence them doing away with the away goals bonus.
Nice goal : (
Looks like there are more to come.
Yeah Wales were looking good between 10-20 minutes but seem to have gone to pieces now. Giving away silly free kicks which is frustrating. Just need to get some possession, calm it down a bit, build confidence and go back on the offensive.
Edit: But yeah really nice goal.
I seem to recall a story about Clough getting the pitch marked out for the visiting team to train on the day before a European tie and then on the day of the game getting the groundsman to rub the lines out and remark it as narrow as they could to negate the other team's wingers - something like that.