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Fergie in the stands. Wonder if his doctor warned him not to do anything that would stress him out or raise his heart rate. Watching England play football is a safe bet, then.
Possible. They need a bit of tempo and urgency, which Foden brought. Sterling is where the game is going to die at the moment.
Having said that, all three of the forwards have been dropping in to cover the wings, so they are putting in more work defensively.
It had been Kane and Sterling on the left and right respectively.
Finally. Although I'd rather have seen Calvert Lewin. This is exactly his sort of game.
Can we stop now and take the point please. I cannae stand the stress....come on scotland
I haven't watched a game of football for years. Is it always this tedious? Compared to a game of rugby it's just so pedestrian.
The commentator just seriously said ‘this is edge of the seat stuff’ just as I was nodding off.
Worst game of the tournament so far. By a mile. Utter shite. I’ve seen more movement in an old folks home. Dismal
I haven’t watched a game of football for years.
To be fair, it feels like I have been watching this for years. I don't normally bother, but thought I'd give it a chance. I won't make that mistake again.
Is it always this tedious?
Nineteen times out of twenty, yes.
I'm on the edge of my seat.
Any other game, anywhere else on the field, you step on an opponent's foot like that and it's a foul. Sterling played for it but consistency is supposed to be part of the reason for VAR.
Kiddies football goalmouth scramble to cap it off!
Are england using jumpers for goalposts next game?
Jack Grealish subbed off cos him Mum has shouted him in for his fish fingers and hoops?
Scotland should have won that. Better team. Dissapointed we drew, when this morning i was expecting a drubbing!
Well done Scotland
Thank god it was not glorious failure again. England were poor and looked laboured and could of gone up a gear and Scotland give it pretty much everything they had. I will take the point, just a shame there were no goals.
Well done Scotland
Is it a compliment to say they looked marginally the better team? I'm not sure it is.
It is games like that which really make me wonder why footy fans pay hundreds, if not thousands, of quid each year to watch that 'product'.
I thought it was a great watch? Shows what bias actually means...
Yep, Scotland the better team.
Penalty? Some quality diving too.
Bah.
Scotland should have won that. Better team. D
Nah, the shouldn't, they weren't. They defended well, smothered England's attackers. They were decent on the counter in the first, did nothing in the second. Ref killed the game off on the first 20 minutes by not letting the game flow. England were poor. Never found their game. If you are going to push your fullback up the right, don't put James in for Walker. Too worried about Scotland getting numbers up in the middle from the back 5.
Jack Grealish subbed off cos him Mum has shouted him in for his fish fingers and hoops?
Christian Eriksen had a cardiac arrest, collapsed on the pitch, hospitalised, surgery & released........and he still spent less time on the deck than Grealish does.
Draw was right result. England pretty incoherent, not sure what the plan was. They won’t go very far with Rice and Phillips centre mid.
Wish Clarke had picked that side v the Czechs (although Tierney was injured).
Not having Sky I miss listening to Souness - definitely my favourite Psycho.
Penalty?
Not a lot different sfrom the one Alaba gave away yesterday. Don't really want a game like that decided on a debatable foul but you've set the bar.
and he still spent less time on the deck than Grealish does
Conference North Hazard.
Tierney is an absolutely class player. That is all.
Draw was right result. England pretty incoherent, not sure what the plan was. They won’t go very far with Rice and Phillips centre mid.
Yep.
I actually like the midfield. The problem is, and there is no excuse for this because you know it's going to be this way, that in tournament football against players like Kane, Sterling, Rashford, the defence is going to pack the middle. They are going to sit in 2 banks of 4 or 5 and 4. You need to create width to free up space in the middle. You have to move the ball quicker, the tempo has to come up to create opportunities for a bit of space to exploit in the middle, and for the service to come. Phillips and Mount have been doing this, Walker and Trippier do it. Kane, Sterling and to some degree Foden haven't. There is no excuse for that. They have the skill and talent and do this week in, week out in club football.
I haven’t watched a game of football for years. Is it always this tedious? Compared to a game of
rugbypatience it’s just so pedestrian.
Caught the last 15 mins, I wish I hadn't bothered
Still not sure who's the second best team in Britain tho..
Vaulting ambition there from Southgate
“If you know you’re not going to win the game, then you just have to make sure you don’t lose it”
You were playing Scotland at Wemberley FFS!
God help them if they get out of the group and come up against a half decent side
Same old Engerland every time
Scotland vs Wales ?
Compared to a game of rugby it’s just so pedestrian.
I like both. But two different ball games. Draws can be an achievement in football. Re Greece 2006.
Still not sure who’s the second best team in Britain tho..
Based on the Wales/Turkey game Wales are looking like the better British team in this tournament. Be interesting to see how they hold up against Italy.
Enjoyed the first half, second half England looked tired and clueless. Scotland played with more passion and positivity I felt.
Glad the ref put us out of our misery at the end.
Scotland should have won that. Better team. D
Got to love statements like this. If they were the better team, they would have won, but they didn't.
I was saying from about 30 minutes in that Kane (not Abel) should be off - absolutely off the pace and not coming back to support other forward players. I won’t be surprised if he doesn’t even start on Tuesday.
I'm out. I'm not going to bother watching from now on. I've had enough of the lacklustre performances from England so I'm not going to waste my time watching them. I'll go out on my bike instead.
I won’t be surprised if he doesn’t even start on Tuesday
Don’t be daft. This is Engerland. Of course he’ll start on Tuesday. That’s the way it works.
Not match fit? Been totally anonymous for two games? Not even getting a sniff at goal? Don’t worry. You’ll still be in the starting line-up, because.... erm... well you just will because apparently you’re a shit hot striker at a ‘top six’ club
That’s the way it works at Engerland. And that’s why they’ll never even win a raffle
Good point Binners - that’s the England way. But at least he was taken off tonight. In fact the fastest he moved all night was when he saw his number come up.
Nobeerinthefridge
Free MemberTierney is an absolutely class player. That is all.
There was a spell where it seemed like there must be three of him, just never stopped. Adams was standout too for Scotland.
Thought it was a good game tbh. Messy at times, sure, but that's all good fun.
I also thought the challenge on Sterling was a certain penalty in the Premier League, it's just making the VAR situation even more confusing
Hugely frustrating game to watch. England play like that against even one of the semi decent teams on this tournament and they will be spanked. No urgency, no creativity, soft passing. On that performance Sterling is one of the most over-rated players - utter shite the whole game. No comparison to the Wales match the other afternoon. I really do hope we can improve!
Worst England performance since the Croatia game. Apart from the opening 25 mins of the first game England were lacklustre, devoid of ideas and clueless when it comes to changing the dynamic when the opponents change theirs for the better. Lots of criticism for Kane, but apparently it’s no longer allowed to have a go at Sterling. But in both games he gave the ball away far too often for a ‘top’ player. Starting 11 seemed to ask for a draw. Replacing Walker for James was the most negative decision. He was clearly told to stop Robertson at any cost…only when he got the ball he didn’t know what to do with it. At least Walker is a threat down the right. Every attack England had went sideways allowing Scotland to re group and defend in numbers. God help us when we have to play France, Germany or Portugal.
I haven’t watched a game of football for years. Is it always this tedious? Compared to a game of rugby it’s just so pedestrian.
Nor I. I've been watching the last 30 minutes before the news for a few nights. France and Netherlands were in a different class to England, who I watched for the entire 92 minutes.
Scotland won the argument. 🙂 England always seem to play like less than the sum of their parts, I can't work it out.
I didn't think the game was that bad either though.
Compared to a game of rugby it’s just so pedestrian.
You've not watched many games of rugby have you? Scrums being reset umpteen times, forwards bouncing off each other through several phases when 5 yards from the line, uncontested line outs, full back kicking to full back and back again and watching England in general. Rugby can be just as boring, it just has the added edge of potentially life changing injury several times a game.
Dire.
Steven, compared to a game of Rugby League (aka as Rugby) that was an absolute dire lacklustre spectacle.
Oh and yes I’ve watched football and Rugby……… might have even played in the odd game.
Forwards bouncing off each other, is that the same as forwards flying to the floor looking for a penalty?
Anyway, different game. But as a self declared Welshman but born in England (to a Welsh dad and Irish mother), that was pap.
And yes I’m always conflicted in who I should support.
And my completely unbiased opinion, Scotland won on points, but really needed the win.
It wasn't a classic, I'll give you that. But as a Scotland fan, it was tense and gripping. I think a point was a good result for Scotland, we know that if we beat Croatia we should be through, anything less and we'll be out. If we'd won tonight there's a fair chance we'd Scotland it and lose to Croatia when we only needed a draw.
because…. erm… well you just will because apparently you’re a shit hot striker at a ‘top six’ club
Don't forget all the Kane interviews and montages the beeb and itv have put together.... Don't want them going to waste.
God help us when we have to play France, Germany or Portugal.
It's unlikely any of them will sit deep with a bank if 4 and a bank of 5 and dare epEngland to break them down, so that'll solve that problem.
To some degree Kane's poor performances are a function of how well the opponents have neutralised him, which they've done very well. In this game the differences were Phillips wasn't able to get forward into attacking spaces as much (credit to Scotlands defending) Sterling couldn't find the spaces he likes to play in (as above) and they didn't create width. Partly Walker, partly the shape, partly the forwards - Sterling nor Kane are effective wide.
I think England will have an easier time with the Czechs, because they like to play forward.
I'd actually like to see Calvert Lewin with Kane and Foden up front. He has experience playing off central strikers and I think he would create space for Kane. If Kane is working, put on Grealish, move Calvert Lewin inside.
Has anyone worked out what game Graeme Souness was watching?
At the end he sounded like he wasn't far off going 'Full Braveheart'.
In reality Scotland were marginally less awful than England. That is 'it'.
Has anyone worked out what game Graeme Souness was watching?
At the end he sounded like he wasn’t far off going ‘Full Braveheart’.
It’s in a similar style to his usual unbiased and objective appraisal of Liverpool games
Anyway, if anyone were under any illusions, after that Sunday League dross last night, about Engerland or Scotland progressing much further, today’s matches are going to provide one hell of a reality check.
I imagine Kane's value has plummeted a little - or as this is football probably not.
Anyway, for the rugby fans who've joined us there are some humdingers today such as Portugal v Germany; and Italy v Wales tomorrow - which will be nothing like the last six nations game.
The big challenge for England is the myopic arrogance and sense of entitlement of its media and shared by many of its supporters.
Exactly, big thick Rio claiming Scotland are championship level. Get a grip ya fud.
Why you still here binners? This is a thread about engerlund! 😂
I don't expect England to blow everyone away and I'm far from a patriotic flag waving supporter but they do seem to play worse than their potential a lot of the time - maybe that is to do with the pressure/expectation.
I also think a lot of people get confused by the 'favourites' tag as they don't realise how bookies' odds work.
It wasn’t a classic, I’ll give you that. But as a Scotland fan, it was tense and gripping. I think a point was a good result for Scotland
from a little further south, it was poor, i nearly fell asleep towards the end of the second half
I feel sorry for all those who wasted an evening of their lives watching it
Not sure why anyone is disappointed by yesterday’s game. 2 average sides playing out a must not lose game had stinker written all over it. What was anyone expecting?
England are utter crap, but I knew that long before last nights game. Other than against Spain in a nations league game they haven’t beaten a top team in a competitive match for over a decade as far as I can remember.
They’ll go out with a wimper against the first decent team they play against.
‘ They’ll go out with a wimper against the first decent team they play against.’
Absolutely true. Remember how far they got in the World Cup? Only because. The mediocre teams they came up against.
Southgate has to go now after this competition IMO. His team selection is poor. Watching the sideways and backwards passing is so so dull. They lack any kind of movement off the ball and nobody has the guts to attack so it appears.
I dislike football when I watch England
That was an awful game of football.
I strongly suspect that they don't want to win the group as they play the runner up from Group F and get absolutely battered.
Although they have to play the winner of Group F in the quarter finals if they get through.
So they might make it to the Quarter Finals if they don't win the Group.
Thrilling stuff.
Why you still here binners? This is a thread about engerlund! 😂
The kids are off doing their own thing so me, Mrs Binners and a few mates are off out for a walk over the moors finishing at a pub that has a big screen in the beer garden. Table booked outside for Portugal v Germany, then the Spain v Poland game, then stagger home via the kebab-house. Living the dream 😃
Best go and pop my Espana top on ready to watch some proper football
As far as odds are concerned, the bookies must be laughing their socks off as they prove the old adage that a fool and their money are easily parted.
Engerland after that dismal display last night are still second favourites at 6.5/1 with only France ahead of them at 4.5/1 😳
Scotland didn't lose, and a Rangers fan was chucked in the fountain.
That's a Win Win right there 😆
This made me chuckle
<p lang="en" dir="ltr">Well done England. Didn’t think we played our best tonight but credit to England for making it difficult for us and gaining a valuable point. 🏴 ❤️</p>— Jamie Murray (@jamie_murray) June 18, 2021
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
big thick Rio claiming Scotland are championship level.
Honestly - he's not that far off. Good Championship / distinctly average PL. So are England though. And many of the other national sides.
Gone are the days when international football was the pinnacle, it still is just about for glory I *think* but for quality, I think the best PL/La Liga/Bundesliga/Serie A etc. teams would be well ahead. Cream of the world's best, playing together week in week out. No worries about 'who's the best English defensive midfielder?' just open your chequebook and get one of the best 3 DM's that money can buy. Teams built to play to a system as opposed to trying to find a system to suit the personnel and then learn it in 3 weeks because it's different to what you do every day of every other week.
I've not given up though. I do think the top top teams will still school us, but against the next tier which i think is where we are, where teams are not so intent on letting us have the ball and pass pass pass until we get fed up, then there's a bit more space for our players to exploit. We don't have the ability to create space often enough - we can as per the discussion of how the Croatia goal got scored, but not in the same way or with the same regularity as the world best - Pirlo, Iniesta, Modric, de Bruyne, etc., who at times just seem to be passing time until they decide it's time to do something, the simplicity with which they do it.
Kane isn't achieving his potential with England in the lastvtwo games. Premier league golden boot and most assists last season?
Something isn't right with him, so something needs to change
Can you name me the last player who actually looked like they were ‘achieving their potential’ in an Engerland shirt?
I’ll start...
Anyway... a proper team have just kicked off
Can you name me the last player who actually looked like they were ‘achieving their potential’ in an Engerland shirt?
Quite a few have achieved their potential. For some, it's not been a high bar to reach...
Fair point.
Hungary are getting pretty physical with France here
Hungary are getting pretty physical with France here
They're giving France a bit of a runabout too. Wonder how much the passionate crowd had to do with it.
The Frenchies were dire, worst performance since they won everything. All back back back sideways. Dreck. Dull . Boring. Why does anyone watch this bilge. Dull. They'll go out to the first good team They meet. Couldn't beat League 1 side. What exactly is the point of Mbappe Etc. Etc.
Is that what the French will be saying or is that sort of gleeful flagellation unique to England 'fans'.?
If they’d have had their shooting boots on, France could easily have had 3 or 4 by half time
Engerland didn’t need their shooting boots as they didn’t create any chances
That’s the difference.
it’s no longer allowed to have a go at Sterling
Why not?
Here's my tuppence worth.
What is he 'world class' at?
Three things from what I can see.
1) Wearing his socks up over the knee. World class - no one carries it off quite like him.
2) That funny mincing run they do when the ball is out of play. You know - the weird one where they don't bend their knees fully. He's world class at that.
3) Looking aggrieved when someone has won the ball from him with a fair tackle. World class.
He's very overrated and he's a show pony into the bargain.
That just about covers it.
Can you name me the last player who actually looked like they were ‘achieving their potential’ in an Engerland shirt?
Most of them - it is just that their 'potential' isn't actually that good.
Can you name me the last player who actually looked like they were ‘achieving their potential’ in an Engerland shirt?
I rarely watch football, but I used to enjoy watching Joe Cole play.
If they’d have had their shooting boots on, France could easily have had 3 or 4 by half time
Engerland didn’t need their shooting boots as they didn’t create any chances
That’s the difference.
So France created 11 chances, 4 on target. England had 8, 1 on target. Therefore France sucked at the easiest part of the game, perhaps the most basic skill, shooting, England didn't create 'any' (odd way to spell eight, but we'll go with it)chances which is by far the more difficult to do.
So England failed at the harder, France at the easier, which makes France better? The other way to look at it is if France had played better, they'd have won. If England had played better, they'd have won. Hmmmm.
That was kind of my point. No offence to you but it's the kind of logic that often occurs in paragraphs that begin with 'Engerland'
He’s very overrated and he’s a show pony into the bargain.
Said Pep, when he got rid...oh, no. Wait.
He is not the kind of player who can fit into any team and prosper, that's true. Those are like Unicorn jizz though. He does well at City because they are able to construct a team that maximises each players effectiveness. Because he has been encouraged to play narrow at City, it's what he defaults to, which does not work with England. When he was younger he would happily raid down the wing and looked much better in the England setup.
I'm not much of a fan of him, never have been. Goes down far too easily and far too often. You can't deny his success at City though.
Can you name me the last player who actually looked like they were ‘achieving their potential’ in an Engerland shirt?
Scholes. Ask anyone who played against him. He was a players player.
Can you name me the last player who actually looked like they were ‘achieving their potential’ in an Engerland shirt?
I rarely watch football, but I used to enjoy watching Joe Cole play.
I remember watching Wolves vs West Ham youth teams when it had its great crop of kids including Rio, Frank, Michael Carrick and Joe Cole. He was a cut above, we thought we’d witnessed the next Maradona! He never really reached the level he showed as a kid.
As a Scot it's good to see we didn't fold as usual, for all the comments that we're 'championship level', we are getting better, most of the players are premiership standard, half a dozen of them playing for the big 6, we have never really done what we should in the last few years, but hopefully we can start playing a bit more like a team and compete more.
As for England, they had an off night and you'd think their tournament had ended, it's the qualifying groups, they're never really pretty, reality is you'll not have so many players having an off night, England have a lot of talent, but that central midfield is a real weakness compared to other competing nations, not that the midfielders aren't good players, they just don't seem to have balance, maybe Bellingham is worth a shot, but that's desperate stuff this late in a tournament!