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I get your point, and it shouldn’t have happened. Apologies to your lad but I doubt it was racist. Given he’s blonde and white. Nationalist, or teamist maybe
I may have got the terminology wrong but being yelled at by a middle aged bloke shouting at a 12 year old to "f*ck off back to your own country" and "F*cken Immigrants" to me I would deem that racist behaviours.
But I get your point as I would view abuse on some one for being Muslim as racist while I would view the same abuse aimed towards someone because they are Catholic as sectarianism.
Can’t tell you how sad this makes me feel. Follow rugby instead.
He dose, but he has a love of all sport.
Can we make this about the football please?
It's a novel idea, but lets try it anyway.
I am not sure where the England team go after this, with Southgate in charge. He has done a fantastic job of unifying the team, talking to the media and representing the team in a very different light to the past. But tactically he just doesn't have it to take them further, this is one of the most talented squads in world football, but they are playing extremely restrictive football, against type for the football most of them play week in and week out with their clubs. It also shouldn't be forgotten that we had very kind draws in both this tournament and the last world cup.
Footballing wise (I'm no expert, I'm a Tractor Boy) I think Southgate has got great squad of talented players and knows how to plan how to play a good match against whatever opposition comes up.
He seems to struggle a bit against "better quality" opposition that gets clever and changes something mid match. Last night he didn't seem to know what/who to change to take control of the game back from the Italians.
Whether he can improve that we shall see. He needs to show he has learnt from this at the next World Cup.
MSP
Full Member
Can we make this about the football please?It’s a novel idea, but lets try it anyway.
I am not sure where the England team go after this, with Southgate in charge
World cup, I'd have thought that obvious. 😆 Youse have a good young team, who just got your best result at a tourney in 55 years.
Seems a bit of a no-brainer to stick with it.
tbh, the idea that the 90s were less violent or less racist than now is mental.
It’s not really the question I asked, but thanks for your input.
😆
Let's not forget England didn't lose a game in the tournament. They lost the tournament through penalties which is fair enough, but in terms of what Southgate achieved over 90 (&120) minutes, they were unbeaten. If we'd actaully won on penalties that wouldn't have made the England team any better than they were.
deadlydarcy
Free MemberIt’s not really the question I asked, but thanks for your input.
Did answer your question in the bit you didn't quote(ie it's more noticeable due to modern communication, and also racism in particular was more ingrained and less noticeable cause less people even knew they were doing it, to give it the long answer, well opinion really )
The quoted bit was just a supplementary comment. 😉
"Youse have a good young team, who just got your best result at a tourney in 55 years.
Seems a bit of a no-brainer to stick with it."
This really, as long as Southgate wants to stay. England didn't lose because they were too defensive, they lost because we couldn't hold on to the ball as well as Italy. Watching the second half, I didn't feel the solution was to be found on our magic bench, you just saw a young and improved team that wasn't quite there yet.
Italy were the most attacking side in the tournament, had Southgate made the formation change earlier we may have got the second goal but equally, Italy could have opened us up more easily, this Italian team were going for the jugular in the second half. It's the simple difference between you letting the other team have the ball for long periods and them not letting you have it at all.
Southgate's plan nearly worked....Very nearly..
I am not sure where the England team go after this, with Southgate in charge. He has done a fantastic job of unifying the team, talking to the media and representing the team in a very different light to the past. But tactically he just doesn’t have it to take them further, this is one of the most talented squads in world football, but they are playing extremely restrictive football,
We've had squads with world class players and experienced managers before and not done anything like this well. I'm happy for more of the same and the chance of a little bit more.
As above they were very close to winning. Yes, Italy were better on the day, but it wouldn't have be inconceivable for England to have won. They had chances and Italy got some luck
Thing is, the last two major tournwments have been the best chance England have had, no real stand out teams in either one, and a lot of the usual suspects, Germany, Holland, Portugal, France in the euros, Brasil, Argentina et al in the WC, none as strong as they've been.
Will they get a better chance? Who knows.
But I do think it would be madness not to stick with Southgate.
Thing is, the last two major tournwments have been the best chance England have had, no real stand out teams in either one
😀
There’s damning with faint praise for you. You scotch can’t help yourselves.
a middle aged bloke shouting at a 12 year old to “f*ck off back to your own country” and “F*cken Immigrants” to me I would deem that racist behaviours.
Stupid, ignorant, wrong. Xenophobic. Nationalist.
Also stupid and ignorant and wrong. You have to feel pity for someone whose life is so bad behaviour like that makes it seem better.
World Cup next year! Woohoo! England will probably in the final again but they may need to play Argentina. Can there be happy ending? More heartbreak? I ain't watching the extra time that I am sure.
Stick with Southgate as he has the track record to prove it. As for the players perhaps one or two new faces but not much changes needed apart from perhaps more determination and creativity.
a middle aged bloke shouting at a 12 year old to “f*ck off back to your own country” and “F*cken Immigrants” to me I would deem that racist behaviours.
Sad but that's the reality. Learn and move on. Life is too short.
But tactically he just doesn’t have it to take them further, this is one of the most talented squads in world football, but they are playing extremely restrictive football, against type for the football most of them play week in and week out with their clubs.
I do think Southgate needs to evolve his thinking but like his team he is a work in progress. But he has something where 'better' tactical managers have failed, he has a team that has no real egos, no prima donnas and consequently a team that will play for him and in the way that he needs them to.
I genuinely think they and he will be better for the experience. Maybe a day off today but we have WC qualifiers in 6 week's time, and I think he and his coaching team (and credit to all of them) will start tomorrow on how to respond to playing against a side like Italy.
I'm torn on Southgate. He has certainly fixed a lot of the problems with England. Although a lot if the credit has to go elsewhere - money has been put into development. The development system has worked to address perceived weaknesses. Foreign players and managers and players going abroad has broadened our view of the game. All of that has given Southgate some great resources. He had a large role in changing the players attitude. They don't look scared, they seem not to have the thing older players mentioned of not enjoying putting on the english shirt because of the pressure and crap that comes with it.
But, and it's a big one. Southgate lacks experience. That showed when he was at Boro, although he had a tough hand to play there. It has showed at times at the Euros and qualifying. Mancini out foxed him in the 2nd half of the final and he couldn't adjust on the fly. He has set out his teams in one of two ways, kept it simple, kept the players in their comfort zones. He has forged a very, very good unit to stop goals. Defence wins tournaments. He has a real problem figuring out his midfield and forwards when one of his two options doesn't work. I think there is much more to be had from this team, maybe different players, certainly Bellingham is a tantalizing option for the WC and would paper over some of Southgates cracks.
I wouldn't get rid of him but I think the FA has to be as blunt with him as he is reputed to be with players. Maybe get some advice from some grizzled old vets.
he has a team that has no real egos, no prima donnas and consequently a team that will play for him and in the way that he needs them to.
Mancini has done that with Italy. None of the problems in the background with players not getting on the field etc. The two teams that seem to have that sorted made the final. Surprise!
😀
There’s damning with faint praise for you. You scotch can’t help yourselves.
We're shite, and we know we are!.
Southgate lacks experience.
Southgate is the best there is now for England as the WC is too close.
no real stand out teams in either one
Didn't Scotland manage not to lose to one of the finalists? How can you say that's not a stand out team? In many ways they were the real winners of this tournament.
Southgate is the best there is now for England as the WC is too close.
Absolutely. I just hope he is open to critiques and able to learn and evolve some if his thinking between now and then.
Very true, Mancini deserves a lot of credit for the way he's forged a team with Italy. Perhaps as one of the game's prima Donnas he already knew the importance and how to fix it!
I'm not a football fan. Watched two games recently and that's about it. But the current system seems to be working so I'd say stick with it. England lost last night but when were they last in a final? It would seem to be madness to change a formula that has produced the best result that I can remember?
For England getting to the final should be seen as a win. There seems to be this idea that we deserve to win every tournament we enter and anything less is failure. We should probably accept our place as on a par with the others and celebrate when things go well.
At the risk of drawing this back into politics it's a national mindset issue that we are somehow exceptional and deserve more than others.
Very true, Mancini deserves a lot of credit for the way he’s forged a team with Italy. Perhaps as one of the game’s prima Donnas he already knew the importance and how to fix it!
He also refreshed their playing style.
Wasn't watshisname, the guy who was managing France when they imploded because they couldn't get all the egos on the team bus, a bit of an egomaniac prima Donna?
Absolutely. I just hope he is open to critiques and able to learn and evolve some if his thinking between now and then.
I rather let him be as critiques will just mess up things. I really doubt people can learn much or evolve at that level. He just needs to be himself.
Didn’t Scotland manage not to lose to one of the finalists? How can you say that’s not a stand out team? In many ways they were the real winners of this tournament.
Na, as big Rio says, we're championship level. 😉
Na, as big Rio says, we’re championship level. 😉
Better that than major heartbreak. LOL!
I rather let him be as critiques will just mess up things. I really doubt people can learn much or evolve at that level. He just needs to be himself.
Impressive. Literally everything you said is wrong.
the view from overseas are the english are a bunch of entitled racist thugs.
https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-racing-statement-wembley/
McLAREN RACING STATEMENT
Incident involving Lando Norris at Wembley Stadium last night
McLaren Racing can confirm that Lando Norris was involved in an incident, after the Euro 2020 final match at Wembley, during which the watch he was wearing was taken.
Thankfully, Lando was unharmed but he is understandably shaken. The team is supporting Lando and we are sure that racing fans will join us in wishing him all the best for the British Grand Prix this weekend.
As this is now a police matter we cannot comment further.
"the view from overseas are the english are a bunch of entitled racist thugs."
I thought we'd stopped talking about the Tories and moved back on to the football?
Im not sure where to start , I'm scottish and would normally have had a smart arsed comment after the pens to post on Fb. Last might I actually felt gutted for the team and manager , I'm not saying I wanted them too win as we would never hear the end of it. That was definately the cruelest way to lose a tournament and I had thought about what It would have been like for scotland to win (obviously its never gonna happen) . I then thought about my english mates and thought it would be ace to feel that good about your team winning a major trophy.
Fast forward to waking up and seeing the racist abuse and seeing fat old baldies kicking shit out of Italians 10 on 1 , It's the minority as usual but I cant get my head round It at all. Even Trafalgar square before the game looked like a warzone , the scots had been there 3 weeks before and were rowdy but it didn't escalate to violence and no bottles getting thrown. As someone who grew up during the 80's and going to football and following Aberdeen who had a big casual following this feels totally different , these fannies are just all out thugs looking to smash anyone and any thing that isn't white English. It's no wonder every other country despises the English which is a real bloody shame as obviously 99.9% are normal football fans that like the Scots , Irish and welsh are just out for a beer and a laugh.
When you look at previous euros and World cups its no wonder countries like france and Germany get selected so often as their home support welcomes nations as opposed to terrorizing and making them feel unwelcome. As for the racism thats for another post but at least Saka and co had the balls to put their hand up for a pen and not hide like some of the others. To conclude its a real shame it ended this way as it was a great tournament after a year and a half of shit.
seeing the racist abuse and seeing fat old baldies kicking shit out of Italians 10 on 1 , It
Where did that happen?
The most notorious racist last night was in the field, in an Italian shirt.
When you look at previous euros and World cups its no wonder countries like france and Germany get selected so often as their home support welcomes nations as opposed to terrorizing and making them feel unwelcome.
Yeah, no. Like Euro 2016 when French hooligans attacked Northern Ireland fans who were drinking peacefully with their polish opponents? Then other french hooligans attacked Turkish Fans? Then Portugese and French went at each other. Then spanish hooligans with neo Nazis insignia. Then Croatian fans threw flares at people and launched them into the stadium.
In 2018 the Russian thugs ran riot. The officials were highly concerned by the the threat posed by hooligans from Germany, Poland, Croatia, Serbia, Saudi Arabia and Iran.
This whole England is the only problem thing is complete bollocks. It has just become a stick for others, or english to beat them(selves) with. There is not a country that can claim the high ground here, just some are higher than others. Hardly a claim to fame.
Stop already.
at least Saka and co had the balls to put their hand up for a pen and not hide like some of the others.
There's no 'putting your hand up' at this stage. It will have been decided in advance, on the basis of the best practitioners. If it gets to pens and the manager's asking who fancies it - firstly thats a lack of leadership and secondly he'd get maybe zero or one volunteers (and Lineker and Shearer are both long retired, so probably zero)
Secondly - there's no hiding. It's very common for the shootout to go to sudden death and if you ain't in the first five, your name could be coming up in one of those. You have to put your best takers up first, so the next 6 already know they weren't in the best echelon and now they've been called upon. That's not hiding, if you were hiding you'd be begging to go first before the pressure really starts......
With limited football knowledge one thing that has struck me over the years is the tendency for England to go for set pieces to the detriment of scoring from open play. Ok it seemed slightly better this tournament than previous but still scoring from open play like the Liverpool team when they won the prem appears so much harder to defend against and a heck of a lot more exciting to watch.
120 mins of footie after Shaw's goal and not one shot on target seems worrying, and the lack of ability to break down teams like Scotland
I agree - this is where I think Southgate needs to evolve tactically, and develop a good plan B. Ask different questions.
Oddly, the game against Germany - not a great German side but you rarely find a truly bad one - that went 70 mins before we scored and Plan A looked effective, becoming more attacking later in the game with good tactical subs that can influence the outcomes.
By scoring against Italy early we sat and waited. It worked against Ukraine, they turned the ball over and we regained possession and stretched and tired them with quick attacks and fast breaks.
Italy don't turn the ball over and when they did they won it back too easily (or just fouled to prevent us from having possession against a stretched out team. Tactical shithouse mastery). We were the ones chasing shadows and we were the ones that tired in the end, you do far more yards without the ball than with.
I’m torn on Southgate.
Have a look into what he achieved at the FA before he was manager then, he was instrumental in many of the earlier changes you say he benefitted from since getting his current role.
As far as I saw the final, it was Southgate against Mancini, the young prodigy against the grand master. The teams were both good, in different ways.
The grand master won. Southgate can learn to think on the fly and react better.
Enjoyed the whole tournament, apart from the animals, but people have had enough and change needs to come from the top.
The grand master won
Mancini is only 6 years older than Southgate to be fair.
This whole England is the only problem thing is complete bollocks. It has just become a stick for others, or english to beat them(selves) with. There is not a country that can claim the high ground here, just some are higher than others. Hardly a claim to fame.
Stop already.
Yes, agreed to be fair, but it is our problem and we only have any kind of control over our problems, no one elses. Listening to John Barnes again yesterday, he's right too, it's not something football is gonna solve, all these young guys can do is raise the issue, we as a society have to address it.
There’s no ‘putting your hand up’ at this stage. It will have been decided in advance, on the basis of the best practitioners. If it gets to pens and the manager’s asking who fancies it – firstly thats a lack of leadership and secondly he’d get maybe zero or one volunteers (and Lineker and Shearer are both long retired, so probably zero)
This article suggests they decided before the match who would take penalties. Which explains the decision to put Sancho on for the last minute (as opposed to say, the last 25 mins, which would have been my preference but hey)
Agree Southgate was out-thought in that game. In particular I don't feel like he had an alternative to Sterling and Kane up front. And from the 2nd half onwards they were a bit off the pace. But TBF for most of the 2nd half we couldn't get near the ball at all, never mind think about feeding it to a creative attacking player.
But he is the right man just now. We've had more tactically astute managers in the past (notably Capello) but this team is so focused and team-spirited, more so than any for ages. The farrago around taking the knee probably helped them build a bond. And suddenly, people like Declan Rice who I had perceived as a bit of a one-paced clogger were playing out of their skins.
Compare it to 2006, where we had a great team, but full of egos (Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Campbell, Beckham et al) and the tabloids were full of them and the WAGs (I don't think I heard a single thing about anyone's girlfriend this time). It was a mess.
Or even compare it to France 2021! Possibly the best squad at the tournament, an embarrassment of riches, reigning world champions, no team spirit, no hope.
So yeah, Southgate has really built something here. Shame we couldn't beat Italy but they were, basically, incredible from the first day to the last. I'm still chuffed, now that I've got over the anguish of penalties!
Yeah, Declan Rice played out of his skin and then some. At points he looked like he was playing in a trance, I thought that maybe Southgate was having him hypnotized before each game:- "today Declan, you are Zinedine Zidane"
Well not quite but I can't think of a player at the tournament who played so consistently above themselves. I'm sure hes goimg to improve immensely.
I may have got the terminology wrong but being yelled at by a middle aged bloke shouting at a 12 year old to “f*ck off back to your own country” and “F*cken Immigrants” to me I would deem that racist behaviours.
No, you didnt get the terminology wrong, cromolyolly was just trying to deflect the criticism by appealing to a bankrupt claim about what constitutes a "race".
yeah, france only showed what they were capable of for 20 minutes against Swizterland. If they played that way for the lot they'd have won. Southgate is fine. Needs to be a bit more progressive but runner up is a great achievement. Mancini has loads more experience and they just beat us. Southgate has a devoted squad and no amount of trophies can buy that.
And exactly as predicted
Another Tory MP also had to apologise for suggesting Rashford should have concentrated on football rather than “playing politics” in an apparent reference to his campaign for free school meals.
Natalie Elphicke, the Tory MP for Dover and Deal, made the comment in a WhatsApp message to fellow MPs, suggesting Rashford should not have spent time on his successful campaign to feed low-income pupils in the school holidays.
I dunno…you guys! England have come from dismal performances post ‘96 to WC semi-final and Euros final! The most you can do (apart from winning outright) is to get yourself there or thereabouts in major tournaments. From round of 16 on, it’s knockout football and let’s face it anything can happen. There’s always going to be a France, Spain, Italy, Germany who even when not in “form” can still beat you because they’ll no doubt have a few worldies in the squad that if they turn it on simultaneously will dash your hopes. Add in Argentina and Brazil in a WC. I think a semi-final and a final in consecutive tournaments is an amazing achievement given where they were starting from.
Indeed. I really don't know what people are expecting. Something completely unrealistic, obviously.
I shoved money on them not getting out of the group, so my Mystic Meg style betting predictions are up to their usual standards 🙂
I thought the idea of them making it to the final was an absolutely laughable proposition.
In other news: fantastic to see the reaction to the Rashford mural being defaced
Oh, I agree. After getting beaten by Iceland 2 tournaments ago in 2016, I'd have pulled your arm off for these last two results.
Southgate and his coaching team have come a long way and achieved a massive amount.
But like cycling, if you stop moving forward then you're going to fall. The next step with an unbelievably together team of young players is to work out what we couldn't do against Italy or Scotland.
Actually typing that, a thought occurred. Southgate's not the tactical genius, actually it's Steve Holland and Graeme Jones and others that all contribute together. Southgate is the CEO of England Coaching Ltd, and we don't need a wholesale change, we need a solid attacking coach. Any coincidence the previous attacking coach left his post six weeks ago following a RTA? Find another, and add them to the team. As long as we don't get 'too many cooks' and roles are well defined, a good CEO brings in talent to fit the roles they need.
Southgate's a lovely man by all accounts and a great human but he's also ruthless when needed. I wouldn't be surprised with a coaching refresh.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/06/gareth-southgate-england-backroom-staff-euro-2020
who was the attacking coach?
I don't blame Southgate I blame binners. Never mind his group stage betting, he bet on a 1-1 draw and England to lose on penalties in the final! Should have quit whilst he was behind and I'm sure he made more than his money back...
Still better than the Tories who made a two way bet, they saw either getting knocked out at the group stage or winning the tournament as a win win. For them, losing in the final was the worst outcome.
No, you didnt get the terminology wrong, cromolyolly was just trying to deflect the criticism by appealing to a bankrupt claim about what constitutes a “race”.
I'd love to hear how people of the same race can be racist to each other. Ignoring the fact that race is a construct and a slightly lazy one at that. But you crack on attacking people not arguments if it makes you feel better.
I don’t blame Southgate I blame binners.
Far from blaming me, I think I should get some appreciation for Engerland getting as far as they did.
With me saying I couldn't even be arsed watching them, castigating them for the years of disappointment, betting on them going out at the group stage and transferring my support to Spain for the duration of the tournament, they were freed up to go on and actually get some decent results, just as Spain were duly cursed.
My betting on them going out on penalties was also a reverse psychology/double bluff to ensure they wouldn't go out on penalties, but it seemed that the gods of football betting had seen through my ruse by this point
Have a look into what he achieved at the FA before he was manager then, he was instrumental in many of the earlier changes you say he benefitted from since getting his current role.
You are probably talking about the year he spent working for Trevor Brooking in 2011. That was pretty negligible, given its been a 16+ year process. He had a part, Like Bellingham had a part in the Euros.
Credit has to go to Brooking, Pearce,et al. Plus Clubs. They realised, just like Germany did, that the FA had no money for development. Their involvement was crucial, if not entirely voluntary.
The most you can do (apart from winning outright) is to get yourself there or thereabouts i
Well said. As Pep said, you won't always win, but you have to be in it long enough to have a chance.
Southgate is by nature thoughtful. He needs someone next to him to push him to be a bit more instinct driven. I think to die degree he overthought The last 3 games. He is a little slow to act if it risks the 'system'.
Having said that, he is also open to hearing from others, so hopefully he will develop. The difference between him and Mancini isn't in years it's in experience.
Don't underestimate set pieces. Sometimes it's the only way to really crack a solid and determined defence. Ask Italy.
As above look where we were after the Iceland defeat , Southgate has done a great job at the last world cup and in the last month . Having said that if were going to go one better he has to find a way to utilize some of the attacking talent at his disposal . If he persists with 2 defensive midfielders and you assume Kane , Stirling and Mount are automatic starters that leaves one spot for either Grealish , sancho , Foden or Sako before you even get to people like Jesse Lindguard or Ross Barclay . I think Jude Bellingham is going to be a great player and might be the answer to some of the questions .
As for what happend at the final and after it , it was depressingly predictable and I am tired of these people being associated with my country . Tyrone mings was 100 percent right to call out Patel , these racists have always been there but Brexit and the current state of UK politics has given them the feeling that there right and the silent majority and social media has given them the platform to spread their hate . I don't know how you stop this but i feel it can only happen through education and will take a long time .
We also need to have a grown up conversation about this country's relationship with alcohol .
Lol @ binners 🤣
Yep, absolutely right, I was appalled by that obese bottle blonde narcissist in an England shirt. Seriously though, it doesn't seem to be playing out for them very well, it's great to see these youngsters slamming the opposition and taking the crowd with them.
We also need to have a grown up conversation about this country’s relationship with alcohol .
Some individuals' relationships with alcohol you mean? I have been drunk may times watching England but it has never led me to violence or vandalism. The same will be true for the majority of people who enjoy a drink whether it be on a special occasion or not.
Southgate has a devoted squad and no amount of trophies can buy that.
I wonder how devoted the squad are today, How would you feel if you were Sancho warming the bench for most of the tournament? What about Grealish put on and taken back off again, not trusted with a penalty. Rashford, Saka, Henderson perhaps may also feel they should have had more minutes.
I’d love to hear how people of the same race can be racist to each other. Ignoring the fact that race is a construct and a slightly lazy one at that. But you crack on attacking people not arguments if it makes you feel better.
You need to look up some definitions. then you might understand.
This is the UK legal definition
"The Act defines "racial group" as a group of persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins."
Or here is the UN charter
Educate your self and you will not look so daft
Some individuals’ relationships with alcohol you mean? I have been drunk may times watching England but it has never led me to violence or vandalism. The same will be true for the majority of people who enjoy a drink whether it be on a special occasion or not.
No i mean the whole country and how ingrained it is in our culture . When you saw the pictures from wembley way at around 2pm we all knew it wouldn't end well and you cant tell me that those idiots who rushed the stewards were not 10 cans of stella in . Saying I caN get pissed and watch football and not punch anyone so its not a problem is just trying to avoid the conversation .I'm not saying we need to ban alcohol and ive done my share of getting pissed at the football but other countries seem to be able to have a different kind relationship with booze , one that doesn't end with a punch up be it at wembley or outside weatherspoons
This was England's best performance in 55 years, who is this magical person that can do better than Southgate?
No i mean the whole country and how ingrained it is in our culture
Alcohol doesn't make me want to give people a kicking, I think there are a few other things culturally ingrained there that no one really want's to examine.
Rashford - out of form
Saka - got plenty of minutes
Sancho - individually brilliant but Saka fits better with Southgate's system.
Henderson - was coming back from injury
Grealish - was used effectively / is not the answer to every question.
Devoted or not, I imagine all those players are thinking about what they have to improve for 2022.
Pep or Jurgen but that's never going to happen 🙂 so I would stick with Southgate and i think 99% of england fans would agree .
Alcohol doesn’t make me want to give people a kicking, I think there are a few other things culturally ingrained there that no one really want’s to examine
I agree , Sunday has shown up a few of them but alcohol is definitely one of them . Again just because you can get pissed and not cause problems doesn't mean that the conversation shouldn't happen .
This was England’s best performance in 55 years, who is this magical person that can do better than Southgate?
I want him to stay on, learn from it, maybe refresh his coaching team to evolve the attacking approach, but be given the chance.
But don't kid yourself there aren't other managers that have more experience, capability, nous, whatever. English? That's a tougher prospect.But what could eg: Klopp do with this group? Rodgers? Pep?
Educate your self and you will not look so daft
Maybe educate yourself on basic spelling before telling people that they won't look daft if they educate themselves.
Oh the ironing.
Also you picked two of the millions of definitions of racial group. Racism requires more than that. Power, prejudice being two. Again, if insulting the person rather than engaging the argument tickles our sporran, crack on. Maybe buy a dictionary first though.
Not convinced Mount does enough to be considered a ‘must start.’ Lots of nice looking touches, runs and flicks which never quite come off (at least at international level).
If he’s going to play Rice and Phillips - who were both great - I’d play Foden ahead of them as 10. Sancho will replace Sterling as automatic pick in the next few years.
Alternative managers? Pep I think needs to work more intensively with his team than an international manager would. Plus can you imagine his tinkering for a World Cup semi final? Klopp would be interesting, perhaps England would have been more likely to go for the jugular if he was in charge. Irrelevant though as neither would want the job!
Not convinced Mount does enough to be considered a ‘must start.’
Particularly as the left sided forward in a 3 man attack. Doesn't really do him a lot of favours that. It's one of the slightly odd decisions Southgate made.
Now a genuine 3 man midfield of him, Rice, Phillips, with anyone one of the wing options they have, and I'd include Grealish in that plus making Kane substitutable for a different look (one if our many pacey and large central attackers. ) Now that would make things interesting.
Really enjoyed watching England get beat.
Having seen the media's relief once Wales and Scotland were out.
Instantly forgotten - back to what matters...England, England, England.
Probably the best squad in the tournament - played immaculately.
But also relied on cheating as one of their most successful tactics - now known as the 'dark arts'.
And promoted by an obnoxious, arrogant media who push a vile brand of nationalism.
England's dickhead support isn't a few bad apples. It's the majority.
It represents the toxicity of a nationalism born out of an empire.
Of ideas of racial superiority that have never fully been challenged or questioned.
Watching the news after they got beat was joyful.
Full state funeral mode - no mention of the behaviour of the fans.
And English left types trying to kid themselves that a bunch of millionaires taking the knee represents a 'new England'.
Aye. No.
you cant tell me that those idiots who rushed the stewards were not 10 cans of stella in . S
But they probably can. There was an organised group that planned and executed their attack. They even kept each other updated on weaknesses and opportunities via Telegram They claim to have bribed Stewards to get in. I'm doubtful they were 10 cans of Stella in with that level of 'sophistication'.
Watching the news after they got beat was joyful.
Would you like salt and vinegar with that chip?
Would you like salt and vinegar with that chip?
Just a bit of soccer banter. Don't take it so seriously.
Just like your hilarious fans dressed as Crusaders and singing about World War 2 bombers.
Just a bit of soccer banter. Don’t take it so seriously.
Just like your hilarious fans dressed as Crusaders and singing about World War 2 bombers.
QED.
Oh well try being an Ireland fan. Hopeless at the moment not even the diaspora is bailing us out this time.
My usual retort to my England fan mates is were a small country...like Croatia!
But they probably can. There was an organised group that planned and executed their attack. They even kept each other updated on weaknesses and opportunities via Telegram They claim to have bribed Stewards to get in. I’m doubtful they were 10 cans of Stella in with that level of ‘sophistication’.
Absolutely this - I think there is an assumption from some people on here that the disturbances on Sunday happened because people were drunk and I don't believe that is necessarily the case. As I said before, I can have a few beers and watch a football match (at home, in a pub or at a game) and it would never, ever cross my mind to kick off or force my way into a ground. The sort of people that planned and executed what happened on Sunday would do it with or without a few beers inside them - and most likely wouldn't have been 10 pints of Stella in. Yes I am sure some people will have followed them once the disturbance kicked off and I am sure some of them will have been drunk, but the perpetrators? I am not so sure.
There has been a fair bit of talk about the player of the tournament. Quite interesting that there has been so much debate and little conclusion. I'd say both finalists haven't particularly had an outstanding player but a group of players who have pretty much all played well. Few weak links, several players having their best performances for a while. By contrast, for example, Ronaldo had a pretty decent performance but Portugal did not.
I think there is an assumption from some people on here that the disturbances on Sunday happened because people were drunk
Drink + Charlie + Arsehole = someone who thinks he's ****in invincible. A biking pal of mine is a cop in Glasgow, she's always on about these folk at weekends. Sounds horrific, the stories she tells tbh.