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So they morning after. I'm embarrassed by the behaviour of some idiots.
As for the game, England played decent football bit not their best, Italy were better on the night. I was surprised and frustrated that sterling didn't take a spot kick and grealish. Doesn't grealish take them for villa? That said, a volunteer is best and those guys that stepped forward did a great job.
I feel sorry for the team, their disappointment must be more then any we feel. I think that's 5 finals Harry Kane has played and lost now (4 for spurs). Poor guy.
I even said ” not all fans are like this”
Ok so you've often said you struggle to understand how other people think. Here's the thing: When you say 'not all people are X' it implies that the majority are X but only a few aren't. I know that there's nothing in the actual sentence that says that, however that's how everyone else is going to interpret it.
NB they are not beating up Italians there but people breaking in to Wembley without tickets. Horrible behaviour anyway.
Thanks for putting me straight on that. They’ve corrected the video title now also
English fans won't step up and sacrifice anything to sort out "their game". Really want to stop thugs and racism then sort it out, don't just play lip service to it or pretend you can't do anything about it. If you have the ability to go to a match then you have the power to make a difference.
Make the weeding easy for authorities.
Boycott clubs that the behaviour is happening, when the money stops flowing the organisations will have to step up. Give the scum nowhere to hide isn't a hard task.
Saying yeah but the other teams fans are worse is part of the problem.
Didn’t watch the first 90 minutes (I’m neither English nor Italian) but saw the tail end with my 15 year old.
He’s a keen cyclist, GCN race pass as a spectator, rides some races, road, cross, track, Mtb, but this was the first time he’d watched a football match.
Two interesting comments.
Grealish rolling about in agony after the challenge that got the Italian booking got compared to Thomas having his shoulder popped back in and riding on.
He was also shocked by the fans booing to try and put the opposition off - unsportsmanlike, a bit silly and ineffective.
Me? I though goalkeepers were meant to stay still until the ball was struck. Perhaps not, but otherwise there would have been a lot of retaken penalties and possibly a booking for at least one of the keepers.
Me? I though goalkeepers were meant to stay still until the ball was struck.
The law was changed years ago.
'Grealish rolling about in agony after the challenge that got the Italian booking got compared to Thomas having his shoulder popped back in and riding on.'
I didn't see Thomas getting his shoulder back in . When he was on the ground I assume from your comment he showed no signs of suffering, no wincing, didn't complain and continued chatting in a light hearted way with the crowd till giving a friendly smile while his shoulder was relocated, no painkillers being taken at any point.
I always find 'my sport is more manly' competitions a bit sad. I'm sure if you got a good kick in the 'essentials' you'd have something to say on the matter.
I was just about to make the point that Marina Hyde has
Its a bit bloody rich condemning racist behaviour this morning when you yourself were opportunistically fanning it only a few short weeks ago
The hypocrisy of these shysters is unbelievable. They're utterly shameless. Is it any wonder that this disgusting behaviour continues when its getting the tacit nod from our own bloody government?
Ok so you’ve often said you struggle to understand how other people think. Here’s the thing: When you say ‘not all people are X’ it implies that the majority are X but only a few aren’t. I know that there’s nothing in the actual sentence that says that, however that’s how everyone else is going to interpret it.
Utter utter nonsense and its not my fault if a clear statement is deliberately misinterpreted to back someone else agenda
Not all people are x is a plain statement that says some are and some are not without any quantification.
England played decent football
We didn't have a shot on target after the goal in the second minute and Italy had around 65% possession
In this day and age of mental health awareness I hope the three lads get the support they need, I barely had the confidence to walk into a bar and order a pint at 19...
The ones who stood up no matter what order, who didn't, who should have, they deserve to come out of this being stronger, I hope they do.
I barely had the confidence to walk into a bar and order a pint at 19…
This deserves repeating.
Anyone with the ability to play for their country in front of millions and volunteer to take a penalty in a shootout should be cherished.
Italian football thugs are way worse than what we have over here.
Italian racism is also a lot worse than in the UK. It’s not just sections, it’s ingrained.
Well done England, you lost the football but you won the 'being a bit less violent and racist'.
Didn’t watch the first 90 minutes (I’m neither English nor Italian) but saw the tail end with my 15 year old.
He’s a keen cyclist, GCN race pass as a spectator, rides some races, road, cross, track, Mtb, but this was the first time he’d watched a football match.
I only watched the 90 mins and the penalty, during the extra time I just switched to youtube to
watch Nordic or pole walking. Can't bear to watch after 90 mins.
All teams are hard to play in the final as they don't get to the final without being brilliant. Both team are very good IMO but the winner will always have a slight edge over the runner up. It is a matter of who makes the less errors.
Grealish rolling about in agony after the challenge that got the Italian booking got compared to Thomas having his shoulder popped back in and riding on.
Grealish played on, didn't he? And if we're going to discuss sporting ethics, professional cycling is an interesting choice...
Anyway, I thought the team did themselves proud. Maybe they can find another country to play for, who might appreciate them more.
Yeah Grealish's injury was genuine - full on studs to the soft tissue - that's going to sting like hell. But yeah he played on.
the winner will always have a slight edge over the runner up
Insightful, cheers.
Not all people are x is a plain statement that says some are and some are not without any quantification.
Unfortunately mate this is not what everyone reads into it. You are oblivious of the meta-meaning of these words. I have made the same mistake many times, I'm just trying to pass on some experience and insight.
Its a bit bloody rich condemning racist behaviour this morning when you yourself were opportunistically fanning it only a few short weeks ago
The hypocrisy of these shysters is unbelievable. They’re utterly shameless. Is it any wonder that this disgusting behaviour continues when its getting the tacit nod from our own bloody government?
And this, honestly, is why I didn't want the England team to win. The braying, belligerent, INGERLAND, bullshit would have been f___ing unbearable. This country is getting uglier by the day, and I don't want to give the increasing number of small-minded, insular, knuckle-draggers anything to 'celebrate'.
On a lighter note, from a post on the work's intranet:
re: Rashford - it must be very hard maintaining two roles as a professional footballer and being leader of the opposition, so the pressure was bound to get to him eventually
🙂
Utter utter nonsense and its not my fault if a clear statement is deliberately misinterpreted to back someone else agenda
Not all people are x is a plain statement that says some are and some are not without any quantification.
No TJ, that turn of phrase has a very obvious inference, I actually wrote the same as Molgrips but the forum hamsters ate my reply and logged me out.
English fans won’t step up and sacrifice anything to sort out “their game”. Really want to stop thugs and racism then sort it out, don’t just play lip service to it or pretend you can’t do anything about it. If you have the ability to go to a match then you have the power to make a difference.
Make the weeding easy for authorities.
Boycott clubs that the behaviour is happening, when the money stops flowing the organisations will have to step up. Give the scum nowhere to hide isn’t a hard task.Saying yeah but the other teams fans are worse is part of the problem.
Which is it?
And realistically you average working-middle class family of four on a day out to Wembley football fans aren't going to sort out football hooliganism are they.
Unfortunately mate this is not what everyone reads into it.
This.
Yep, I think I proved I’m no good as a watcher of football. Don’t mind playing it occasionally though at my age not so much these days.
That said I have been impressed with how this England squad have conducted themselves outside the 90 minutes over the last year. Not something you could always say, and they should be commended for that.
On a lighter note, from a post on the work’s intranet:
re: Rashford – it must be very hard maintaining two roles as a professional footballer and being leader of the opposition, so the pressure was bound to get to him eventually
Bit OT, but I can't see writing political stuff on work intranet as a very smart career move 🙂
That said, a volunteer is best and those guys that stepped forward did a great job.
Absolutely this, what a massively brave thing to do. These guys played brilliantly for the most part, for it to go all the way to penalties is a shame, but these guys should walk away with their heads held high.
for it to go all the way to penalties is a shame
But a penalty shoot out is the best bit of a football game. It’s the fun bit. And I really genuinely mean that - it’s not a troll.
But I accept others will almost definitely disagree.
Note - see also my earlier comment on not being a good watcher of football.
Which is it?
And realistically you average working-middle class family of four on a day out to Wembley football fans aren’t going to sort out football hooliganism are they.
There you go, pretend that it's not possible to deal with it. They are the ones spending money on going to the matches, buying the tat, putting bets on, ignoring the poor behaviour.
There are many ways that it can be dealt with. But saying there is nothing I can do if you pay in to the machine isn't one of them.
The comparison with cycling would only be valid if play acting an injury on the bike gained an advantage. Cant see it'd do anything other than just leave you several kilometres behind the peleton.
And this, honestly, is why I didn’t want the England team to win. The braying, belligerent, INGERLAND, bullshit would have been f___ing unbearable. This country is getting uglier by the day, and I don’t want to give the increasing number of small-minded, insular, knuckle-draggers anything to ‘celebrate’.
Which is a ****ing tragedy for the majority of us who support the team and want them to win, but fear being lumped in with the knuckledraggers.
There you go, pretend that it’s not possible to deal with it. They are the ones spending money on going to the matches, buying the tat, putting bets on, ignoring the poor behaviour.
There are many ways that it can be dealt with. But saying there is nothing I can do if you pay in to the machine isn’t one of them.
So other than chastising everyone, what are you doing?
For me I did want the team to win remarkable they way they present themselves. On the same time I didn’t because I didn’t want to listen to the media go on about it for another 50 years.
The interesting bit for me was my son going from not minding to much about the English team at the start of the tournament to outright wanting them to lose.
The reason for this is the racism he experienced on Wednesday night while leaving Wembley. He is half Danish and went to watch the game with his Mum. When they were leaving he was subjected to a load of racist abuse towards him and his mum.
Being white and blond he hasn’t experienced that before his mother explained that this is what some of his friends have to put up. the whole experience really put him off supporting England.
To add to this danish people generally support England when it’s not against Denmark. But there were loads of racist events after the match aimed towards danish supporters. These were reported in the danish media which shifted danish support towards Italy.
Which is a **** tragedy for the majority of us who support the team and want them to win, but fear being lumped in with the knuckledraggers.
Agreed, and, indeed, for the team themselves, and especially the manager, who all, whilst being outclassed in the final, played well through the tournament and showed all the qualities of respect, tolerance and grace that are so badly lacking in the country they are being asked to represent.
The interesting bit for me was my son going from not minding to much about the English team at the start of the tournament to outright wanting them to lose.
The reason for this is the racism he experienced on Wednesday night while leaving Wembley. He is half Danish and went to watch the game with his Mum. When they were leaving he was subjected to a load of racist abuse towards him and his mum.
Being white and blond he hasn’t experienced that before his mother explained that this is what some of his friends have to put up. the whole experience really put him off supporting England.
I rest my case. This f___ing country.
wbo
Free Member
‘Grealish rolling about in agony after the challenge that got the Italian booking got compared to Thomas having his shoulder popped back in and riding on.’
I didn’t see Thomas getting his shoulder back in . When he was on the ground I assume from your comment he showed no signs of suffering, no wincing, didn’t complain and continued chatting in a light hearted way with the crowd till giving a friendly smile while his shoulder was relocated, no painkillers being taken at any point.
I always find ‘my sport is more manly’ competitions a bit sad. I’m sure if you got a good kick in the ‘essentials’ you’d have something to say on the matter.
haha. I was trying to find something to say but this sums it up. Clearly OP has yet to experience either dislocating a shoulder or studs to the knee and then getting on with it.
Fairly dismayed at some of the behaviour yesterday but then it's no surprise. Large section of football supporters are mugs. Going to a game is horrendous.
It was a good effort last night but that early goal for us was perhaps our downfall as we decided to sit back and invite the Italians on. for 90 minutes.
Can't blame the penalty takers but wondered why the senior players didnt step up. was not sure why Southgate made those subs either. Walker and Henderson would have stood as good a chance.
Bravo for stepping up to all of them. Huge responsibility and pressure. Amazing.
I was also expecting a some antics from Chillieni at the coin toss like he did with spain. I was disappointed
Gary Neville telling it like it is, once again
https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1414497666340372482?s=20
Where were the police?
I know there were probably a few off duty ones amongst the hooligans but I mean the actual police? There had been warnings of trouble at the Denmark game, I coulď see the potential for trouble sitting on (hiding behind) my sofa in Manchester. Cresida Dick obviously couldn't sat on her arse in Scotland Yard.
These are the thugs that Boris tweeted out to 10 times on the day of the BLM protest to come and 'protect' Churchill's statue (that Sidique Khan had thoughtfully protected by boarding it up).
I guess they were too busy doing stop and search...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57765013
Which is a **** tragedy for the majority of us who support the team and want them to win, but fear being lumped in with the knuckledraggers.
Same applies to the country itself on the international stage, I'm afraid.
Two cheeks of the same arse.
Large section of football supporters are mugs. Going to a game is horrendous.
It really isn't. I've been going to matches for decades and I have only ever experienced racist hooliganism once.
Guess where?
At Wembley for an Engerland match
You simply haven't had this kind of nonsense at club level for decades. It's something to do with the 'fans' that the national team attracts. Its a totally toxic 'culture' around the Engerland set up, and they are now emboldened by the present culture of toxic nationalism that have got the nod from those in government to suit there agenda
I can only see it getting worse too.
I do find it a terrible shame that this decent bunch of footballers and a thoughtful manager are so disliked up here ( and all over europe) because of the antics of English politicians, media and their so called “fans” and the xenophobic jingoism that those politicians, media and “fans” follow
It's got nothing to do with English politicians. A proportion of Scottish fans have hated England for as long as I've been alive. Some because of the media, some because of the fans, and some because they are small minded bigots with a chip on their shoulder
For once can we please not bring the Tory government into a thread ffs..
agree. It attracts all of the mugs from each club so you end up with the lot of them.
I've spent enough time at games to see the interactions between different sets of fans. I'd prefer not to sit near them but our friends always chooses seats near the away support. hate it.
Clearly OP has yet to experience either dislocating a shoulder or studs to the knee and then getting on with it.
If it helps, never dislocated a shoulder, but in 25 years of rugby, I had studs to the knee, back, face, you name it. I got on with it.
But it was my son’s comment not mine.
My comment would have been around his miraculous recovery as soon as the Italian was booked. Not that he’s not hard, but that he was deliberately trying to get someone else in trouble. But I didn’t say that.
For once can we please not bring the Tory government into a thread ffs..
Why should they be absolved of responsibility?
Gary Neville is bang on with what he's said this morning. Boris Johnson and those around him like Priti Patel have facilitated this. They attacked the BLM movement as marxist terrorists and said it was the fans 'right to freedom of expression' to boo the England players when they took the knee. They gave them the nod.
You can't legitimise booing an expression of racial equality and then try and separate yourself from the resulting racism. Its the same thing!
For once can we please not bring the Tory government into a thread ffs..
Well, they themselves are pretty keen to be in on any Engerland success, so they set the tone.
For once can we please not bring the Tory government into a thread ffs..
Just to be clear, I'll happily include BoJo in with those I referred to as small-minded, insular, knuckle-draggers.
The only way to separate it would be to start a second thread concentrating only on the yobbishness.
Here's our dear leader condoning physical assault.
So long as it is done to the 'right' people for the 'right' reasons it is OK, yes?
You simply haven’t had this kind of nonsense at club level for decades.
Are you quite sure of that?...
It's better than it was but I can assure you it's still happening. I've seen adult, affluent, middle class men hurl racist abuse & offer opposing fans out for a fight just 'cos.
I gave up my season ticket about 3 yrs ago because the behaviour was so abhorrent. Funny thing is though, I've sat next to opposing fans at rugby games & not experienced any grief. At all.
Just to be clear, I’ll happily include BoJo in with those I referred to as small-minded, insular, knuckle-draggers.
He'll pretend to be whatever he needs to be to get out of a corner or garner some support. He is a cynical, lying fraud. No more no less.
"Just to be clear, I’ll happily include BoJo in with those I referred to as small-minded, insular, knuckle-draggers."
Just to be clear, I'll sadly include every conservative member of parliament in with the small-minded, insular knuckle daggers.
The only conservatives I've heard question the policy of starting a culture war have either left the party or are sitting in the House of Lord's (Mathew Parris and Ed Vaisey).
So other than chastising everyone, what are you doing?
I don't normally have anything to do with the sport, wife wanted to watch it last night and I was surprised by the behaviour.
I've simply come this thread and seen that my thoughts of why I've always avoid it are still true.
I'm sure Johnson was supporting the penalty-taking picaninnies with their watermelon smiles.
It really isn’t. I’ve been going to matches for decades and I have only ever experienced racist hooliganism once.
Guess where?
I'm a very irregular attendee, but the only racist abuse I've seen was the England v Mexico friendly at Pride Park many years ago. Jeez.
Where were the police?
I know there were probably a few off duty ones amongst the hooligans but I mean the actual police? There had been warnings of trouble at the Denmark game, I coulď see the potential for trouble sitting on (hiding behind) my sofa in Manchester. Cresida Dick obviously couldn’t sat on her arse in Scotland Yard.
They were waiting for them to peacefully protest - that's when they go in. Not when it's actual trouble.
We live amongst scum - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-57803161
We live amongst scum –
No, I think scum live amongst us, and we need to keep some perspective that it is a (sadly increasingly confident) minority rather than any sort of societal norm.
As people don't want to talk about the football, how about talking about the actual football?
Great stuff from Matt Parker
I think the media(and just everyone) connecting this event and football in general to 'Englishness' is a terrible mistake that has backfired very seriously, a win might have obscured it but building it up the way everyone did to then lose was bad enough, to end in violence just makes England look internationally thuggish, better PR decisions needed.
What the team actually achieved was to miss one penalty in the best result in 55 years, and the fans let the whole country down, only way to fix this is stop framing English identity around something that is rotten to the core.
it is a (sadly increasing
ly confident) minority rather than any sort of societal norm.
FTFY
Why should they be absolved of responsibility?
All the bad things that happened last night, it's has bugger all to do with this Tory government. These things have been happening for years...society has been filled with assholes since as long as I can remember. Long before brexit, Boris etc etc. Yet predictably certain posters pop up on nearly all yhreads on here to blame the Tories. We get it, you don't like them. Neither do i. But it's just boring now..
Oh, well we're all frightfully sorry to bore you.
Lets not bother looking into the issue of racism then, because of your boredom threshold
The fact of the matter is that they've been stoking a culture war which led to them, shortly before the tournament kicked off, giving a tacit endorsement that its fine to be racist
So to then pop up and condemn something that you actively encouraged is rank hypocrisy
When it comes to addressing the toxic racism in this country, this present government is very much part of the problem
Sorry if that bores you
Just because it's been going on for years doesn't mean their actions are not influencing what we are seeing now.
We live amongst scum
They just need to be heard, man. It is just frustration at being ignored that turns you into a head-kicking, racist graffiti spraying thug. Given a chance, they are salt of the earth, honest guv.
🙄
I do find it a terrible shame that this decent bunch of footballers and a thoughtful manager are so disliked up here ( and all over europe) because of the antics of English politicians, media and their so called “fans” and the xenophobic jingoism that those politicians, media and “fans” follow
I'm here in Germany. Over the last two weeks I've lost count of the number of times I've been asked by people what the deal is with English fans booing the national anthems. Not once have I had an answer for it other than those doing it are on a hunt somewhere in Berkshire.
I guess England's defeat had at least allowed the general population a closer insight to the minds of your England "fans".
So, and I’m prepared to be educated to the contrary - I was quite a bit younger - actually, exactly half the age I am today 😂 but I don’t remember it being this bad in 1996? Seemed everyone was just having a great time that summer. Am I just imagining that?
Was that because people were generally E’d up and smoking nice mellow cannabis resin rather than skunk & cocaine? 🤔
Seriously though, was there way less of this shite then or was it just not as noticeable? (Genuine question by the way, not specifically trying to make a point.)
The mood was totally different at Euro 96. I remember it felt like a great big celebration and everyone was invited. I'm sure a lot was down to the industrial quantities of weapons grade MDMA we were all skulling, but not all of it.
There definitely wasn't this air of aggressive nationalism around like there is today. The whole St Georges cross ID felt like it had been wrestled away from the far right in 96. Today it feels very much like they've got full ownership of it back
I could be mistaken. Maybe we could ask the opinion of someone who wasn't absolutely ripped to the tits on Doves for the entire period? 😀
BTW: happy birthday Bravissimo 🙂
It seemed like there wasn’t this air of aggressive nationalism around like there is today
To be fair, DD's countrymen expressed a fairly aggressive form of nationalism in the centre of Manchester in the middle of Euro96
Great video about ball geometry. This years offering didn't curl and didn't dip unless hit in a knuckleball fashion. Better than the Jabliani or whatever they called it in 2010 but it's a balloon still.
I am today 😂 but I don’t remember it being this bad in 1996? Seemed everyone was just having a great time that summer. Am I just imagining that?
My hometown of dustable got trashed after we got knocked (not that the town wasn't tagged beforehand)
I was working at parcelforce in Luton on a night shift they let us watch it in the 1fst floor cafeteria, after we lost one of my soon to be ex colleagues the his chair through the window onto tbe road below in a rage
There were riots up & down the country
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Trafalgar_Square_riots
I thought that was the trail end of English football violence as a thing, sadly its still lurking a decade ade of austerity followed by the last 5 years of stoking division for political gain has made things worse
The mood in the nation was entirely different in 96, a New Labour government was around the corner, Tories in their death throes (though in Major they were at least led by someone with common decency).
Something else that was around the corner was devolition, which in part explains the appearance of the flag of St George. Previoisly it was the Union Jack that operated as a symbol for the Nationalists. So in a sense in 1996 the 'new' flag started with a clean slate, it took time for the symbolic toxicity to transfer itself from one flag to the other.
after we lost one of my soon to be ex colleagues the his chair through the window onto tbe road below in a rage
There were riots up & down the country
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Trafalgar_Square_riots
/blockquote>Yeah, there was plenty of it about.
The mid 90's was when they starting banning ****s from premier league stadiums, which changed the shape of football violence - it moved down the leagues. The ****s of (say) Nottingham simply moved across to Notts County and carried on as before. I had a Saturday job at a lower league club and violence got a lot worse around this time. Our local firm bloody loved it - loads more fighting to be done.
The reason for this is the racism he experienced on Wednesday night while leaving Wembley
I get your point, and it shouldn't have happened. Apologies to your lad but I doubt it was racist. Given he's blonde and white. Nationalist, or teamist maybe
You simply haven’t had this kind of nonsense at club level for decades. It’s something to do with the ‘fans’ that the national team attracts. It
That is completely untrue. It never went away. You want to try hanging around and watch the police clearing out the hardcore long after the game has finished. Thats them.
Not that he’s not hard, but that he was deliberately trying to get someone else in trouble. But I didn’t say that.
Posted 5 hours ago
I think he was too preoccupied with the pain to worry about anyone else. It was going in studs first, over the ball and into Grealish that was going to get Jorginho in trouble.
Now, Jorginho was faking injury in the hopes of getting out of serious trouble and it worked. Then he had the temerity to complain that he had to go off until after the restart but Grealish didn't.
What's the difference between the 'knuckle draggers' directing abuse at people that are from an indentifiable group , who are rightly castigated, and people who refer to car drivers and other identifiable groups as 'gammon'. Isn't that exactly the same behaviour? If you want them banned from football, do you also want them banned from STW, or is that 'different'.?
Asking for a friend.
Can we make this about the football please? Although I am hurting, I am still incredibly proud of what this team achieved. Well done England. Onwards to the World Cup - at least we don't have a long wait this time around (although longer than it should be with the silly winter scheduling).
The one positive we can take from the aftermath of the euro's is that the UK will never host a major football tournament for the foreseeable future
The reason for this is the racism he experienced on Wednesday night while leaving Wembley. He is half Danish and went to watch the game with his Mum. When they were leaving he was subjected to a load of racist abuse towards him and his mum.
Can't tell you how sad this makes me feel. Follow rugby instead. We went to Stade de France, cafe with the French fans, sat next to them in the stadium (all mixed), congratulated each other on good play, then when France just hung on for the win, they complemented England and said how lucky France was to win. Then off for a drink together. Just a lovely day out.
It's Sport. That's all. I enjoyed the tournament, enjoyed England's playing. But they lost by one penalty. Move on...
I am still incredibly proud of what this team achieved. Well done England
That seems to be the overwhelming message pretty much everywhere else but here. The youngsters did really well on and off the pitch. The world cup is now something to really look forward too.
Seriously though, was there way less of this shite then or was it just not as noticeable?
There was no twitter or internet forums.
tbh, the idea that the 90s were less violent or less racist than now is mental. 😆
That is completely untrue. It never went away.
Maybe not completely, but There is absolutely no way you can compare the levels of hooliganism at modern football with decades gone past. It simply doesn't exist at any kind of comparable level.
... with the one depressingly predictable exception...
England internationals
There is absolutely no way you can compare the levels of hooliganism at modern football with decades gone past. It simply doesn’t exist at any kind of comparable level.
… with the one depressingly predictable exception…
England internationals
Or Poland, Hungary, Central America, South America, Italy, France.
When Montreal won a playoff series there spwqs rioting. When they lost the Stanley cup, there was rioting. When Vancouver lost, there was rioting, fires, overturned police cars.
The only thing more reliable that England hooligans is the self flagellation that we are a white nation that can't deal with this sort of problem. We aren't.