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Walker. Passing into attacking space. Just saying. Phillips did so well to see it. Best player on the pitch so far, for me.
Ref's a bit quick on the draw with his yellow isn't he? Two pretty nothing fouls get yellows. What's he gonna do when someone goes in with a reducer?
there's a portable gallows they can wheel out for a proper reducer.
9 minutes of added time
[sorry, typo]
I thought it was a pretty decent if not spectacular start by England. Sterling probably did enough to warrant his start, Foden looked ok at times but he and Kane didn't get the best service to make use of their talents. Philips deserved his man of the match and provided the team with energy in the centre.
As suspected the "players request" line by UEFA about restarting the game last night was rather disingenuous. The players were given 2 choices at a time when they weren't in a good frame of mind to be making decisions.
As suspected the “players request” line by UEFA about restarting the game last night was rather disingenuous. The players were given 2 choices at a time when they weren’t in a good frame of mind to be making decisions.
They made a brave choice at the time, glad I didn't have to make it. Hindsight is easy.on all sides though.
Is there a best dive award? Or a BAFTA for the best agony roll because some one got within 5 yards?
Ukraine/ Dutch game is a cracker so far.
It's a lively one. Bavaria beer for me on this one. Old Speckled Hen earlier, Efes for the Turkey game. What's the chances of finding a local beer for every game I watch without resorting to buying online?
What’s the chances of finding a local beer for every game I watch without resorting to buying online?
Seems a worthy challenge.
Loving the Dutch/Ukraine game as a neutral
Some game but how have the Dutch messed this up?!
Hate watching stuff on ITV. Forgotten how intrusive adds are. Still, needs to funded somehow.
I think I prefer ITV now, as I'm just looking at my phone during ad breaks anyway and you fe got Clive Tyldesley, the thinking's man commentator
And there's always the chance of an outbreak of violence with keano there. Putting him next to Nigel de jong as well?!
I dunno about the football but the ITV pundit crew would batter the bbc lot
Yeah right. Micah Richards is a unit and Shearer's got Keane's number. Lineker might struggle......
Has it been any good so far? not really been captured by the hype this time... im completely out of touch with this level of footy (Bolton fan) ive hardly heard of any of the players, no idea who the top europeans are? watched a bit of the dutch and the italians - no familiar names there - i hadnt even heard of half the England line up tbh. Also, im Lancashire born n bred, but seem feel more support for the Welsh than the English these days anyway! is that weird?
Has it been any good so far?
It's been surprisingly good. Group games of tournaments can often be cagey, tedious affairs - 'just don't lose' often being the mantra - but everyone seems to have hit the ground running this time around. The Holland Ukraine game last night was an absolute belter.
I think it's having the supporters back in the grounds thats made all the difference. I doubt it would have started like this without them
Looks like many of these matches are not on catch-up - cannot find The NL/Ukraine match on either.
Yip, Holland game last night was great. Ukraine just lacked a bit of polish with their passing. They play good football. Their first goal is going to be hard to beat, great build up play too.
Underwhelmed by England as usual. Such a yawnfest watching them. Apart from Sterling's goal, he was dung. Some of his forward passes wouldn't look out of place in a Sunday league game.
Underwhelmed by England as usual. Such a yawnfest watching them.
They were playing a very good team (World Cup finalists) so they did neutralise each other a bit but I would not have called that match a yawnfest. Are you sure you watched the correct game?
I thought Mings and Stones looked like a effective pair, I'd start them again - not sure what Rice brought to the game other than a defensive passback, if Phillips starts the next match (which he definitely should) then put grealish on for Rice. I hope Kane has a better next match as he was completely anonymous in the first half and better positioned in the 2nd but still not threatening enough. I can see England getting to the quarters or semis, where we meet Italy...
if Phillips starts the next match (which he definitely should) then put grealish on for Rice
That wouldn't work though - Philips could get forward more in the Croatia game because Rice played the holding role. If Grealish was to play then Philips would have to revert to that role and you'd see him play a very different game (more like the role he plays at Leeds).
Mon the Biff!!
Game on Scotland
They were playing a very good team (World Cup finalists) so they did neutralise each other a bit but I would not have called that match a yawnfest. Are you sure you watched the correct game?
That was 3 years ago. Yes, it was the same game, I think 😉
I'll give you the first 10/15 minutes, but it fizzled out pretty quickly.
I’ll give you the first 10/15 minutes, but it fizzled out pretty quickly.
It was 30°, they were hardly going to be able to go balls out like that for 90 minutes. I can tell you from experience that there is zero breeze at field level in a bowl like Wembley but they make a great suntrap.
I think that was a great match. The tactics and player matchups were fascinating. Watching Modric move up and down the field trying to find a place to create from. Ster!ing's outside in runs off the ball were causing Croatia fits. It was fascinating. If you are looking for balls out slugfests, tournament football in the summer probably isn't for you.
stcolin - Yawnfest what match was you watching the tactics and selections were excellent for the England game.
What's the goalie doing there !!!
Shocker
Well the keeper's had a bit of mare there.
I thought Mings and Stones looked like a effective pair, I’d start them again
Not a sentence I've seen before....
As Sir Sean might say:
“That’sch a bit of a Schickner”
Well the keeper’s had a bit of mare there.
Not much he could do about it. In the modern game with sweeperkeepers he has to position himself high when the ball is on the opposite half. The rebound from the Scottish shot came out so quick he didn't have much chance. Outrageous piece of skill by the striker.
Dodgy reffing though and the Czechs are well aware and taking some liberties.
Watching Modric move up and down the field trying to find a place to create from.
He might be old but he can still hurt you with his vision and passing, and I was hugely encouraged late on in the game to see him getting on the ball, but having to be 20 yards inside his own half to do that, not 20 yards inside our half.
That is what I meant by tactical neutralisation. Someone, maybe a shared role, had to follow him round and stop him playing and in doing so, almost not 'play' themselves. But in a straight fight, can Modric outplay and outpass and outcreate anyone England can put up..... yep, he'd kill us.
Someone, maybe a shared role, had to follow him round
England didn a superb job of closing off the spaces in which he likes to operate, Rice, Phillips didn't get recognised for the work they did there. They also did a good job of cutting off the supply to him when he moved up the field, and closing off the lanes when he did get the ball. The saving grace is that as he has aged, he has lost a step and so can't make his trademark quick move to ghost past the first defender, which gives him the time, space and options to make the killer pass. He hadn't got that instinct for finding a little pocket that eg Iniesta developed as he aged.
They did start to find aa little success late on when they pushed their fullback up the England left, Sterling is never going to be the guy to chase back and cover. Mostly he stands 25 yards up the field and points at his man as he goes past him.
Excellent from England yesterday. Exactly how to play tournament football - each game at a time, play your way in slowly, pick the right side for the game. A draw against Croatia would have been fine, a win was superb.
Southgate got everything right.
Excellent from England yesterday. Exactly how to play tournament football – each game at a time, play your way in slowly, pick the right side for the game. A draw against Croatia would have been fine, a win was superb.
Southgate got everything right.
Yep, wasn't spectacular but job done and frankly, 2-3 more points than I was expecting/feared.
Rice, Phillips didn’t get recognised for the work they did there.
Well Philips not only got MOTM by almost every media outlet, but many of the extended articles on him focused on exactly that aspect of his game - he neutralised Modric almost completely and played like the most experienced international midfielder on the pitch, not the least.
They also did a good job of cutting off the supply to him when he moved up the field, and closing off the lanes when he did get the ball.
and not to be underestimated, to keep co-ordination and concentration for 90 minutes. No good doing it 20 times if on the 21st there's a 'I thought you were going.....' moment, Modric has got the ball in a dangerous area and we've conceded.
West Ham are having a cracking start to the Euros 😂
If that game was a horse they'd have shot it after 70 minutes
Well Philips not only got MOTM by almost every media outlet, b
I tend to ignore that, as it so often goes to a goalscorer or set up man. Case in point, the pass by Walker to set up that goal was a worldie. How he saw that space, never mind thread the needle, was something else. All credit to Phillips, who had come short and recognised where Walker was looking and turned and went for the space. Walker got no credit for that though.
If that game was a horse they’d have shot it after 70 minutes
Both teams forgot rule number one if tournament football. Defence wins. Comical defending by both teams. Keepers were superb though.
I think the atmosphere got to Scotland. They spent large periods looking like they've never met each other before, never mind played together
Spain v Sweden...what is it with that stupid bright blue infill on the track around the pitch?. It's painfull to watch, not from a footy point of view but from colour overload. Bright yellow, bright blue, searing eyeballs - check. And it's not my telly which has been fine for every other sporting occasion from darts to dominoes.
They do it in each game - it's colour matched to the ref's outfit
85% possession and a 0-0 draw 🤦♂️
t, the pass by Walker to set up that goal was a worldie. How he saw that space, never mind thread the needle, was something else. All credit to Phillips, who had come short and recognised where Walker was looking and turned and went for the space. Walker got no credit for that though.
Ohhh come on - no matter how the ball got to Phillips, he still had an absolute mountain to climb to do anything with it. I certainly didn’t see anything in the build up that was more than I’d expect at international level.
Ohhh come on – no matter how the ball got to Phillips, he still had an absolute mountain to climb to do anything with it. I
We must be seeing it differently. The best part of that goal was the understanding between him and Walker, the run from Phillips, the pass was inch perfect, took out 3 of the 4 defenders on that side of the field, allowed Phillips to take it in stride. He showed great strength and agility to cut inside the last defender and played an inch perfect ball for Sterling, who made a very intelligent run from the left, and who scored despite himself. It wasn't by a long way the hardest thing Phillips did in that game. His volley in the first half was a much more impressive piece of individual skill.
If you see passes like that in international soccer on the regular, you have got to tell me what games you are watching, because I don't.
if you pause this video just after the start point (2:49) you can see what is being said. The pass itself takes three Croatia players out of the game (also don't underestimate intelligent positioning from I think Foden getting whitewash on his boots and splitting the left back away from the central defenders)
As a result the central defender has to come over to cover, his partner goes with him (correctly, centre backs hate getting split up and the ball being passed between them)
Pause video again at 2:51. I don't know if it's a deliberate decoy or Kane always looking for the ball but he almost crowds the situation out, instead his run diverts the other centre back for a moment creating now a 25 yard hole between CB and RB that Sterling goes through.
Even then the RB nearly gets a block in!
Did Walker or Phillips (or Foden or Kane or Sterling) 'see' that happening at the time? No, I don't think so, there's an instinct in what run to make or not make, and also good coaching and tactics to make the pitch as wide as possible. If the defence can stay within the width of the penalty area those gaps are easier to close. Almost as if they were roped together, as one goes across the others should cover; in the end it was really the RB that has been caught out. But Mount (I think) was staying wide on the left stopping that being an easy choice for him.
A few pieces falling into place at the same time, a pinpoint pass, a minor moment of indecision by the RB and bang, 3 points.
Did Walker or Phillips (or Foden or Kane or Sterling) ‘see’ that happening at the time? No, I don’t think so
Individually yes. Obviously Walker couldn't foresee Sterling cutting in when he made the pass. It is obvious to me that Walker had seen the gap for the pass and was waiting for Phillips to turn. As soon as Phillips turns, Walker plays the pass. When Sterling sees the run and pass, he begins to drift inside, anticipating Phillips getting the ball near the top of the box and because that's his instinct. Wouldn't surprise me if Kane did make a decoy run, it's pretty basic part of the game. So yes, in the sense that 'vision' is used to describe players anticipating possibilites, yes they 'saw' it happening. All good players do.
It just annoys me as a player who played as a creator, not a tap in specialist, that even good analysts and commentators fail to point out just how good some passes are and focus on the goal.
I mean they couldn't see all the bits coming together as they did, Mount wasn't staying out left thinking 'if I stay here Kyle's got the space the thread the ball to Kalvin who's going to make that run and then Harry can get across the defender to create a gaps for....' but undoubtedly they see their bits - but at a subconscious level, part instinct, part because it's coached in. As a kid I couldn't believe they weren't choreographed moves like corners or free kicks, such was the way it all slots together. It's also incidentally why footballers are more intelligent than rugby players, with the odd exception everything in rugby is like a set piece with decoy runs and inside passes and the like all worked out on the training ground....then a tackle, recycle and another 'set piece' starts
I'm with you - it's a vastly underrated part of the game; it's got a lot better in the analysis on Sky and MotD but the average fan doesn't always realise the little differences that fall into place, and the skills to thread the pass for direction and weight.
I was on the flip side to you C-O; I was a goalkeeper and although I was never big enough or agile enough to really be any good, I could read a game to an extent and organise. I've no doubt (er, maybe) I'd have seen that developing and been yelling at the RB to tuck in who in turn would have been yelling at the RHS midfield to be getting back on cover and the chance would have been blocked 😉 Or maybe Sterling would have pulled it square and Mount scores, who knows.
My irk is that a page or two back Southgate was praising Henderson for his contribution in the warm up game and the difference it makes when he's on the pitch organising and moving the team around in defence based on seeing these gaps start to open. I don't think there's an OPTA stat for words spoken in a game and people just don't see that work. A great save or last ditch block is cheered, the call to a player to drop 5 yards that prevents the situation that leads to the block being needed is just as valuable.
with the odd exception everything in rugby is like a set piece with decoy runs and inside passes and the like all worked out on the training ground
You what? Everything? The first one or two phases maybe sometimes, but what about the tenth? If a team could plan a move that far ahead that would be an even greater feat of intelligence still.
No, of course not everything. But every tackle, ruck, recycle, start again is an opportunity to run a play that is essentially rehearsed. Even if that is pick up ball, run 2 yards, fall over. Or in England's case, run 2 yards, fall over, give away penalty / kick ball to oppo. It's when eg: the 9 sees a gap and goes off script that often the real things happen, often that thing being that no-one has realised what has happened and he's now isolated and penalised for holding on.
And when I say intelligence I don't mean education or A levels or in a derogatory sense, I mean game intelligence. Of course exceptions on both sides, a half back must have that situational awareness (and then do what Eddie says anyway), a back rower needs the intelligence to know when to commit to a ruck and when to leave to the opposition, and so on. What front rowers do..... I think it's fair to say the less awareness the better because if they ever twigged on how horrible it is to be a front rower, there'd be a total lack of them in the game 😉
Anyway, this is about the Euro's, I apologise for diversion.
OI! Rugby? Be off with you!
Anyway... Spain last night. How the hell that ended up as a 0-0 is somewhat bemusing. 85% possession and not getting a win? The Swedish goalkeeper had an absolute blinder. A couple of incredible reaction saves.
The standard of the goalkeeping so far in this tournament already has been outstanding.
Looking forward to France v Germany later
Anyway… Spain last night. How the hell that ended up as a 0-0 is somewhat bemusing. The Swedish goalkeeper had an absolute blinder. A couple of incredible reaction saves.
Plus Sweden missed an absolute sitter.
I know. I don't think any of the Spanish players knew much about it either
@theotherjonv deserves a red card for that lot!
Agree with binners re Spain/Sweden. Sweden did well to come away with a point.
I know. Same with the Czech keeper, I know Schick scored two good goals but their GK stopped it being 4-2 (OK, 4-4, Marshall made two good stops as well)
Anyway… Spain last night. How the hell that ended up as a 0-0 is somewhat bemusing. 85% possession and not getting a win? The Swedish goalkeeper had an absolute blinder. A couple of incredible reaction saves.
I think I saw that coming a long way off, made it most of the way through the first half then just got bored, almost seemed like a training game with all the intricate passing but not much actual drama.
I remember a good description of the ugly Spain-Holland final in 2010 - Spain tried to box Holland in with the intricate passing, and Holland just tried to kick their way out!
Saw the second half of the Spain / Sweden game, not so much tiki-taka, more chuckle brothers without the drama.
From me, to you...
I know the first half was different but in the second half it seemed to me that the Swedes just let Spain play with the ball amongst themselves. The Swedes may have only had 15% possession but they didn't even look tired or overstretched towards the end of the game. The whole point of a possession game is to tire your opponents out, not tire yourselves out putting on a passing exhibition whilst the opposition just holds its shape and watches.
not so much tiki-taka, more chuckle brothers without the drama.
I've just literally laughed out loud in a very dull Teams meeting. Thought I was on mute....
I mean they couldn’t see all the bits coming together as they did, Mount wasn’t staying out left thinking ‘if I stay here Kyle’s got the space the thread the ball to Kalvin who’s going to make that run and then Harry can get across the defender to create a gaps for
From experience, they see the possibility they might. You can see the likely next step and act to enhance it. I played with a forward who was exceptionally good at seeing the next but one pass and using his presence and movement to create gaps in the defence to make it happen.
Spain is a great example. Iniesta knew, either from experience, coaching or instinct, that getting the ball into the zone around the penalty box arc was not the important part. It was moving it through that area quickly. Stats bear this out. He didn't play the pass to the player in that zone until he could see the pass that player would subsequently make. It's one of the reasons Spain's tiki taka is largely negative these days.
Defence wins tournies. A hot keeper helps a lot. Both Spain and Sweden benefitted from that last night.
RB to tuck in who in turn would have been yelling at the RHS midfield to be getting back on cover and the chance would have been blocked
I think the RHS mid was fronting Walker. The RB couldn't tuck in because Foden then gets the ball with space to accelerate, and you don't want that. The two Center Half's are crappinh themselves at the prospect of Kane getting behind. If Phillips takes that pass wide, the way he is running, he is heading towards the corner flag, the move dies. Kane rolling in deep pulls both CH, creates the space up top for Phillips to turn into. Sterling sees the gap developing early, starts the run. Brasavic (sp?) the DM dropped a bollokc there. He's gone over to close the space for Walkers pass but then gets caught ball watching, doesn't see the space developing between the RB and CHs, or Sterling coming. By the time he does, its way too late. I think all those players 'knew' all of that at each step, a step or two before their step actually happened.
I really liked the last WC, iirc, because you could stream the footage from the overhead camera. If you like this stuff, that's is a great way to watch a Match. I'd much rather be way up at the top behind the net than down near the halfway line.
The Group of death to look forward to this evening then?
I suspect I'm going to have to endure Pogba being brilliant again as he tends to be during international tournaments, in stark contrast to his usual disinterested lolloping about at United
If the first 20 minutes don't go well for the french, I predict we might see another implosion. The seeds are already down, discord between Giroud's ego and Mbappe's exuberance. If the bearded sulk and Mbappe are at odds, can they play together? If not, I know who I'd drop, which creates further discord.
If happy Pogba shows up good for France, if sulky uninterested teenage Pogba shows up, good for the rest of us in entertainment value.
Watching the cream of the premier League in Portugal along with poor Pepe's perpetual battle against the invisible Man.
LOL Ronaldo misses from 6 yards out dead center.
How come they’ve got Rhod Gilbert doing commentary on the Portugal match?? 😄
I think the RHS mid was fronting Walker. The RB couldn’t tuck in because Foden then gets the ball with space to accelerate, and you don’t want that.
You clearly know your football, but you need L&R written on your hands.
I was talking about the two Croatians on the LHS of screen at 2:49. There's 4 pitch stripes between RB and the CB, compared to the centre circle that's 25 yards.
Basic positioning says that's too much. Even without a situation developing he's switched off for a moment.
It takes 1, 1.5s before he starts to cover over and he's half a second late for the block. The RM is 5 yards from Mount and could have come back at the same time to cover the gap. You see the panic as the situation unfolds......
I'd never have let him switch off, and if he had he'd have been Schmeichel'ed all the way back to the hotel afterwards.
And off come the wheels.
Too bad Hungary did very well, unfair score really.
Softest of pens given the physical play he'd let go elsewhere. Didnt have the balls to give a second yellow to the portuguese defender, who shoved the big turkish lump in the back 3 times when the ball wasn't in play, once after having been warned to stop it. Cuneyt is nothing if not consistent in knowing which one is the 'bigger' team.
was talking about the two Croatians on the LHS of screen at 2:49. Th
Oh I see what you mean. I can only assume that the team instructions were that one of CM fill the gap in the middle. Mount and Trippier (and I assume this is why Southgate picked him) Offer such an attacking threat that you wouldn't want your left sides players tucking too much. I agree though, I started as a wing back and I'd have been somewhere around the back post at that point. Sterling has come inside, your midfielder should be covering Trippier, Mount would be going inside out allowing time to adjust. The increasing threat of the attacking wingback has led to managers using a DM either between the CH or plugging the gaps between them and the wing backs, though.
For me though, the DM failing to recognise that Sterling is in the middle, and his wingback hadn't tucked is unforgivable. That's the one I'd have been yelling at to move into cover. Sterling starts his run about 5 yards short of where he should be. If you can find footage from the overhead you'll see what I mean.
Viera and Keane on the sofa together!
Wonder what the green room was like?
Is Keano wearing a rip off Rapha?😀
And off come the wheels
Popped out for quick workout on the bag and missed it.
Popped out for quick workout on the bag
That's probably something you want to keep to yourself.
and missed it.
Was it not where you left it last?
Don't do that during the france game, you might miss Pogba running, or Benzema and Mbappe v. Giroud in a death match.
Or a decent soccer game. Either way.
ITV coverage is playing some great tunes, happy Mondays, Jeff Buckley , war on drugs
Plus theyve sat keano and viera together
And some gratuitous footage of Schumacher banjaxing battista
Quality tangential article (Guardian Long Read) here on the UK’s almost exclusive oversight on pitch quality both at domestic and international level.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/15/silicon-valley-of-turf-uk-perfect-football-pitch
Germany look a bit weary tonight
Ooof, did someone mention Schumacher up there ^^
Really don't get that oafish rule where the offside flag does not go up straight away.
because he might have got it wrong. If he flags wrongly, game stops, chance gone, there's no way to reset back where they were and start as they were before the error.
At least this way round everyone plays on, you see what would have happened, and then stop and check.
It does seem daft, particularly when the decision is obvious but if you've ever run the line (and done offsides, not just ball in and out) it's bloody hard and I'm amazed how accurate they are.
When you weigh it up, it's clearly the better way round.
(and annoyed that McCoist and pundits still don't get it because it's different to their day!)
Are Germany England of old in disguise? So many square and backward passes when they have much better options. Shocking.