The Electric Van Thread

Saw a Mercedes EQV passenger van the other day, I didn’t know they existed. 200 mile range, nice inside. But, as you might expect, **** expensive.

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/06/tesla-swapped-1974-ford-e-100-van-is-a-cool-electromod-sleeper/

bet it doesn't get the range but that thing looks ace.

Had our Buzz Cargo for a month or so now, it's a wee bit cramped for the bikes but you can still do two bikes and both get changed next to them, or two bikes, two paddle boards and a bunch of it. Or bikes for delivery. Or a lot of stock. Wouldn't have minded the non existent LWB though.

Really nice to drive, very pleased with it. Consumption from new is 3.5m/kWh over the 1250 miles we have done, mix of town but mostly A roads and motorway. That makes it 269 miles for a full charge in theory, but we haven't ever needed to do a full discharge. Most about between charges was 240 I think, with the remaining adding up to 270ish.

And with still no announcement about the e-custom, we would still be living with the Expert that I am glad to be shot of. After spending one of the last months of the lease off the road with an ABS sensor failure, the day after it was collected they all had a recall for the AC system causing the motor to shut down. Don't think I would ever buy something from that group again, it was gash.

Long live the Buzz.

I'd really like a Buzz Cargo, but without the benefit of a business paying for it they're a bit bloody expensive.

There is a Buzz that drives round by me... doesn't look very big. I'm not sure I'm seeing the appeal myself, however, I suspect they'll sell plenty.

It's a van, I'm not interested in an aspirational lifestyle chariot. I've got a Transit Connect L2 at the moment which is a perfect size for personal use.

Seen a few of the passenger buzzes buzzing around, but saw first buzz cargo OTR yesterday.

Poked around one a couple months ago at my local VW dealer, they were after 800 per month for one, even with a 9k deposit 😂

I'll keep buying lottery tickets.

Looking at going electric shortly, taking advantage of 100% refund against corporation tax, just a cheap Renault Kangoo but it it's perfect for our needs, short journeys with light bulky loads.

Nearly bought an e-Vivaro (got as far as ordering and was on the waiting list) but the price and range differential for a second hand (but nearly new) e-car turned our heads at the last minute. Part of our thinking is that if we find out a car really isn't big enough, we can swap for a van in a year or two by which time there'll be more of a second hand market for the latter (and/or perhaps better range too). So far I have to say the car seems the more sensible option for at least 95% of our use and I'm sure we can cope with the other 5% somehow like all other car drivers manage.

Saw a Vivaro e-life at a charging stop and it looked nice but only 140 miles and pricey.

@gobuchul

Does the Kangoo support fast charging now? We had some at work and I think they'd only charge at 7kw so they were very unpopular if you needed to get near the limit of it's range.

@pigyn

I think the Expert shares the drivetrain with my ComboE. Had mine about 9 months and the other week it shuddered to a halt as I pulled out of a parking space with a traction fault.  It cleared after disconnecting and reconnecting the 12v battery and waiting 30 minutes.  It sounds like the AC compressor causing the motor to shut down, apparently it's just a software update.

The Kangoos have different charge options. There's an 11kW AC base model and a 22kW AC 80kW DC option. 7kW sounds more  like Opel, Peugeot, Citroën range which charge at 7kW AC 100kW DC with an 11kW AC option.

Perhaps your work only had 7kW chargers.

Perhaps your work only had 7kW chargers.

Nah, just cheapskates!  One of the biggest branded fleets in the UK and they've barely started installing 7kW charges in workplaces, they normally fit a 7kW charger at home to charge the work van and employees without a drive are reliant on public fast charging.

Timely... Was looking at Peugeot Travellers earlier and the e-version seems to be possible cheaper 2nd hand than the diesel. I could be missing a key differentiator but want obvious. Still out of price range but encouraging.

Having had a look over a Buzz I was surprised at how far back the dash and front seats are. In the old T2 one of the reasons there was so much space was that front seats were right up front. At a guess it's for safety reasons because EV drive trains don't take up much space and the batteries can go under the floor (like the T2 engine). It means that the back is not as long inside as I'd expected, pretty wide though. A lot of vehicle for the interior space was my verdict. Checking volumes the Citroën e-Jumpy is much bigger on the inside whilst only a little longer.

The Buzz looks great though, a proper fashion statement for the image conscious.

Checking volumes the Citroën e-Jumpy is much bigger on the inside whilst only a little longer.

The Buzz looks great though, a proper fashion statement for the image conscious.

All well and good, but the e-dispatch's range doesn't quite compare.

The reason there's interest in the buzz isn't just cos it's 'cool' but cos it's also got a half decent range.

From a using a van as a daily POV, which is my interest, the interior of the Citroen doesn't get exactly glowing reviews, whereas the buzz cargo is a relatively nice place to be.

330km for the Citroën 75kWh and 414 for the Buzz 77kWh. That's similar to the difference between the two Zoés I've had, and yes it makes a lot of difference on runs needing charges as we charge with about 50km remaining in case there's a problem with the first charger we get to.

Citroën calling it a 75kWh when the useable battery capacity is 65kWh is naughty. They con people in the same way with their cars. When they launched the Peugeot 208 50kWh people assumed it was comparable with the Zoé 52kWh. In fact the Zoé really does have a useable capacity of 52kWh but the Peugeot is 46kWh.

The E-Expert 75kwh are actually somewhere around 65 usable. I never managed to put more than 65 in so might actually be 10% less than that with charging losses? The Buzz is 77kwh usable.

I have gone from struggling to get 2.7-3m/kWh summer to 3.2-4 in the Buzz.

The range calculator works and is always accurate when you do tests on quotes Vs travelled. It doesn't lose 10 miles every time you get out and back in again.

It has never crashed with a red traction battery error (yes the expert did this in the first 1000 miles)

We didn't get it as a fashion statement. I really liked having a white panel van that was actually electric. It didn't even get a green plate 🤣 However my partner really likes it, and loves driving it so that's good. She hated the Peugeot. Mostly because she couldn't trust it on range/not to break.

The difference between a 130 mile vehicle and a 250 mile one is huge when you don't have off street parking.

There are £250 Buzz leases available now 🤷

But aye if you want something that looks like a big manly van wagon just hang on for the Transit Custom or the VW badged version of it.

Hmm, intersting, so the Stelantis EVans have the same issues as the 208. 🙁

Well I've just had a go in the eKangoo we've recently got at work. Only a few miles, but it's really nice to drive. Range is up to 185 miles I think, so probably a realistic 150? I'll definitely have one of these when they become available second hand and a couple of years old.

Not one of these works ones specifically, because doubtless they'll be as knackered as the diesel vans they replaced. 🙄

"There are £250 Buzz leases available now"

Hmm... Mebbe I need to get looking again

Stables were the cheapest Buzz Cargo lease's when I was looking 👍 Seemed nice too, on the ball and replied to any questions fast.

Had a quick poke at select leasing, basic buzz cargo was about 360/Mon +vat - 24mon, 15k miles per year.

Edging towards affordable if I assume 15k a year is going to get more and more expensive on my 160k diesel caddy 😑

Range is up to 185 miles I think, so probably a realistic 150?

Totally depends on the car and the driving style. Urban driving is way more economical than motorways. Lots of cars will beat the official range with ease in urban driving, some won't.

new sprinter with the largest battery pack (113kwh) allegedly does 300 miles on a charge

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a42775886/2024-mercedes-benz-esprinter-revealed/

pricey though.

There's a Nissan Dealer on the Leaf FB group selling two new (delivery miles only) 73 plate Townstar vans for £20k+VAT each, rather than the usual £35k+VAT...

Got a link?

We had the same experience as Giant Scum - utterly pointless. We also has a look at the ID Buzz, but that's not great either.

In 2020 we reserved 4 build slots for the Cybertruck, so we're doing research on load etc as to whether keep them or sell the slots on. So far it looks like they should be OK and we already have a bunch of Tesla chargers installed. Lets see what other car brands do to compete with the Cybertruck i suppose?

That 190 mile range on the Ford fully loaded and in cold weather will drop like a stone. Nowhere near good enough for real world applications i'm afraid.

Got a link?

It's a private group (UK Nissan Leaf owners group) but the guy's name is Simon Dando of Fish Brothers Nissan, apparently in Swindon.

Bit of a thread resurrection....

I'm doing the man-math around a VW ID Buzz Cargo as my personal daily - I might be just about able to justify it if I'm feeling brave.
Does anyone have one? Thoughts?

Also, insurance...
I've a VW caddy at the mo, which is classed as a car (it's a Kombi 5 seater), and so insurance is around £500ish. Just done a quote on a Buzz cargo and it's the thick end of £1300...

I do drive for work - visiting places - for which I get milage, so my understanding (and current situation) is that I have business use on my policy, which adds a bit, i think. Do I need it on there?

TBH at £1300, the man maths falls down a bit.

Kia PV5 UK launch is at the CV show on 29th April so I'd at least hang fire to see prices, range, weights etc. I'd imagine the maths will be better than a Buzz.

Yeah I seen the PV5 - looks cool, though I suspect in a trim that's 'nice' (as it'll be my only vehicle) it'll top current 2nd hand Buzz prices (£35k-ish)?

Certainly won't be buying owt in the next couple months but starting to consider it. just surprised at the insurance as much as anything!

Could have bought a leccy Vivaro Life Elite, less than 6 months old, for the same its just cost me for a three year old diesel.

Problem, range is about 100 miles.

Considering the amount of space there is in a van, the range is seriously poor on them. Aware vans for actual work tend to need all the space but surely improving the range would mean more vans would be sold...

I really wanted an ev Berlingo/partner, but the range is so poor that I just stopped looking...

We had a '75' kWh E-expert/Vivaro for two years then switched to a Buzz Cargo, that is now also two years old except we own this one with no plans to change.
It has been great, range is 200-270 miles, reliability has been great, it's nice to drive. It's owned by my business, insurance is through direct line who were a lot cheaper than some @ £500ish I think. It's coming up for renewal in August.
I think you are right about it being nicer at a pre-reg price than a PV5, it really comes down to load space. The Kia has a much bigger cargo area, but less range unless they have really improved efficiency. My long term in the Buzz is 3.1m/kWh but that's over three winters and only two summers. We have had a Kia Soul since 2020 which has been faultless, so I'm sure the PV5 will be great too. We just don't need the extra load space so perfectly happy to keep the buzz.

Posted by: hungrymonkey

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I do drive for work - visiting places - for which I get milage, so my understanding (and current situation) is that I have business use on my policy, which adds a bit, i think. Do I need it on there?

Try direct line. They were competitive for me when I had a van as a daily with occasional work use. Also were happy to transfer NCD between car and van policies, which a lot of insurers won't. They assume a mix of SD&P used as well as business.

I've just taken the plunge on a cheap VW ID Buzz cargo deal, moving from my current caddy as ICE van prices are ridiculous at the moment, almost twice my current payment. Really looking forward to the Buzz, but hadn't thought about the extra insurance cost, so will have to iook into this 😳

Nice, you will like it. For us direct line were dramatically cheaper, about half the price of some, and it went through the huge insurance hike era without too much increase

Where are these 'cheap' ID Buzz Cargo deals, just asking for a friend?

I got mine on central UK vehicle leasing. A 24m personal lease on a commerce with about £1k of options with 1 payment up front and 8kpa was £400 per month. It's a bit more expensive now but still much cheaper than replacing my petrol caddy on a like for like lease.

Stables tend to be the go to, not sure what the free charging offer is, but it could be handy

https://www.stablevehiclecontracts.co.uk/offers/personal/fo-vw-id-buzz-cargo-210kw-commerce-79kwh-auto-pch/

I thought I'd post this as it might be of interest.

I've had a 2 year old Peugeot e expert for 3 months now. I needed a replacement van and the lower running costs appealed. Unsurprisingly the driving experience is night and day compared to the 150k 17 yr old vivaro it replaced. 

My choices were limited to the Stellantis variants. Transits in budget are all L3, buzz is too small and the rest have pitiful (sub 100 mile) range. 

I mainly do local journeys, 6000 miles a year, not much fast (over 40mph!) driving as there is too much traffic round here. 

Roof rack permanently attached, ladder on occasionally. 

Over 1676 summer miles it's working out at 3.3 miles/kWh. At 6.5p a mile its 31% of the cost my 30mpg vivario . 

Obviously it'll be more expensive in the winter but so far I'm very pleased. 

Driving the manual diesel car feels like a chore in comparison. I used to be a bit of a petrolhead too! 

@slugabed What has the practical max range been on it, semi-loaded (i.e. not totally full, but not barebones)? Is it rated for towing as well?

Also, agree that EVs are a leap abpove ICE vehicles. I miss the Kia for that reason, despite loving my Dispatch

Posted by: willard

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@slugabed What has the practical max range been on it, semi-loaded (i.e. not totally full, but not barebones)? Is it rated for towing as well?

Also, agree that EVs are a leap abpove ICE vehicles. I miss the Kia for that reason, despite loving my Dispatch

I have the lwb 75kW battery version. I think the quoted wltp range is 206 miles. 

When fully charged the van suggests the range is 213 miles. The 3 months of data I have suggest I would  get 231 miles from a full charge. 

However it's summer, and I think my enforced driving style helps. Most driving is reasonably flat, sub 40mph with regen on. With the amount of traffic my acceleration and braking is gentle. No real opportunity to floor it.  I don't use eco mode, my driving style probably replicates it but with the bonus that I can get up hills! Eco mode limits the power and steep hills aren't fun. 

At a guess I'd say payload is 30% on average. 

I don't know about towing. 

It'll be interesting to see what a full years figures look like. I based my decision on 2.5 miles/kWh so all good so far.