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not strictly EV but as it was mentioned above, data centres use huge amounts of power, not least generating heat in the tech that stores and processes the data, and then taking it away again. There's a lot of work going into new materials for devices, so that at least some of the expansion will be matched by efficiency. Don't panic, there'll still be enough for our cars.
https://www.royce.ac.uk/materials-for-the-energy-transition-low-loss-electronics/
https://www.electropages.com/blog/2024/07/gan-and-sic-transform-ai-data-centers-efficiency
Also interesting to think that google searching is energy intensive, using AI to do the same uses 50-100x more. And so every time someone fails to provide a citation in one of their wild (usually political) claims and so the readers are forced to 'do their own research' - they're directly responsible for the destruction of the planet and more so now I get a pointless AI summary at the top of my google search that I don't read anyway. Bastards.
This is gonna sound pathetic but which Tesla app is it. I have checked and see various apps and i definately dont want to be signing up for one i dont need. I do not have a Tesla but want to use their network for my new EV
If you have to use any other network arm yourself with patience and make sure you’ve got enough kms left to get to another charge point if /when it doesn’t work.
I'm a Tesla driver and yes the Supercharger network is great but only 40 or so of the UK Superchargers are open to the public. There are good non-Tesla networks in the UK like Ionity, Osprey, FastNed, Mer and MFG they'll just cost a bit more. No need for patience to use them just get an Electroverse card which covers just about all the decent charging networks.
Another question – I have installed ZapMap and I have seen they have 'ZapPay'. I assume that, should I put my card details on it, I can then pay over the app if the charge station doesn't accept contactless payments? I also assume that, if there is no phone coverage at the location, then it won't work?
"Tesla"
Though I don't think it's necessary, all the public superchargers we have used just take card payments, and can be found on Zapmap, filtered by public v Tesla only.
The most I paid for a Tesla charge was 50p, all the others were 83p or more. The Tesla app didn't fleece me on exchange rates and commission, all the others did.
I have installed ZapMap and I have seen they have ‘ZapPay’. I assume that, should I put my card details on it, I can then pay over the app if the charge station doesn’t accept contactless payments?
I really wouldn't bother with ZapPay. Just get an Octopus Electroverse card and the Electroverse app. The Electroverse RFID card means you don't need an app and mobile data to activate a charger. Also you don't need to be an Octopus customer to use Electroverse. The Electroverse app is very good in showing the locations of all Electroverse compliant chargers.
This is gonna sound pathetic but which Tesla app is it.
Its the official Tesla app that all Tesla drivers use. If you are a non-Tesla driver you use the "Charge your other EV" part of the app (navigate to it via the pizza box icon on the top rhs). When you open this section the app automatically shows you all the Superchargers available to the public..
Thought I'd have a look at the Tesla App. I've registered and put a payment card in, thne on the home screen there's the 'Charge your EV' pic, so I tap the three lines (top right) and then I can select my profile of there's a charging menu and if I hit that then all I've got is manage payment, history and membership. Can't find the 'other EV' section, am I going nuts?
Next up is Electroverse, something tells me it'll be easier than Tesla.
hi madhouse - this was driving me nuts as well, until I realised that as I am a non-tesla owner (which I guess I must have told the app during set up) the app automatically only shows me Tesla chargers that I can access. There is a ton that simply do not show on my Tesla app, which I cross referenced by using the finder on the Tesla website.
does that make sense?
Haven't actually used one yet right enough, so the access is only theoretical, not confirmed with experience, although I am all set up to do so. Must try at some point!
Oh, and yeah, I do most journey charging planning with Electroverse. it's good.
You are in the "other EV" section, madhouse. Just search a charge point on the map page and away you go. Once registered you open the app and the first thing it proposes when you open it is find a charger, click that for the map and enter a destination (on the French language version anyhow)
Oh, so I don't actually have to do anything? Tesla help was unhelpfully vague.
Just so I know I'm not going mad(er than usual), does this mean as a non-Tesla driver I could use the super chargers at Exeter Services? It's showing in my app that I can and if that's the case it'd be the most useful of the lot for me.
In other news, have signed up for electroverse with a card on the way. Think that pretty much sorts my charging app 'starter for 10' set.
Thanks for the help all.
It's not Exeter services it's Exeter service centre which suggests it's at a Tesla dealer (I've used the one at Solihull service centre which is in the Tesla dealer car park). There's also one at Darts farm Exeter. You can use both. 61p and 65p at the moment as it's the most expensive time of the day. Type the address into Google Maps to find them, the blue dot on the Tesla app isn't as accurate as the Google one.
Thanks for pointing that out, classic user error! Turns out there's nothing that'd be particularly handy to me on my regular jaunts but that might change, so it may still come in handy.
You really don't need to mess about with apps unless you are using slow chargers at destinations (and then only sometimes). Debit card - beep, done. It's nowhere near as bad as Edukator makes out. Mostly it's the older chargers in ones and twos that are unreliable. If you go to a big site or services, they're great. On our recent trip the only charger out of ten or so that didn't work was a Tesla!
They are cheap though, the downside is that they aren't always the most convenient. The one in Cardiff is near the motorway but through a housing estate. It's next to a Waitrose but if that's shut you've got nowhere to sit except in the car.
Had 100 miles of range on arrival. 45 minutes later, 180 miles
@retrorick not sure if we've already discussed this but the charge rate slows down a lot after 80% and dwindles to almost nothing after 90. So if you are on the road, it's significantly more time efficient to stop charging and 80% and start driving. Of course, if you're chilling/drinking/eating then it's fine - as long as you are with the car and you can make sure you're not blocking anyone who needs to charge and get going.
It's not almost nothing on most EVs, Molgrips, the Zoe takes 45kW to about 75% then drops to 36kW and is still at 25kW at 95% and about 18kW at 98%. There are many journeys I do when going to the max rather than 80% avoids a charge at the end of the day which saves the time to hunt down an extra charger and the risk of another faff. The distance between the only reliable chargers (wink) in France sometimes means going to 98% or having to drive slower to get between them. Assuming you recharge at 15% 80- 15 is 65 and 98-15 is 83, roughly 30% more range.
One not working Tesla charger isn't really a problem when there's a row of 28 of them. I'm still on 100% reliablity from about 40 Tesla charges.
There's something like 8 chargers at Fort William, I tried three and failed. There was a CPS one at the other side of the car park I had to use.
I think the Ioniq electric is under 7kW i.e. slower than AC charging by the time it gets to 95%...
The pleasant charging speed of the Ioniq is fine.
Did another 2 sessions today and the time spent charging was spent taking photos of sea mist, seals and phone calls.
I'll be back on the Tesla chargers in a few days...
My Model Y is still pulling 250mph at 85% charge. The stop charging at 80% rule doesn't apply to a lot of EVs these days.
The Ioniq motor in my car is nearing 50000 miles and it is driving as if it was new. I've no idea what it was like when it was new but it is silent at 50000 miles and I don't imagine that it was noisy when new.
Charged it twice today, covered 103 miles at 5.1m/kWh.
The only thing that reveals the age of an EV seems to be the interior and the shock absorbers/suspension bushings, eventually. Our second one at 79k is identical to our first one which was new, other than a few very minor creaks from the bushings. I'm expecting to do the shocks and bushings in a couple of years's time but that's because I'm a fussy bugger with that sort of thing.
Seems like Ioniq motor bearings might go after 200k miles or so, but they can apparently be replaced using the same gear as a gearbox job.
Brushes need replacing. "brushless" is a misnomer in that there's still a contact brush but without segments which eventually wears out. The battery cooling is a weak point and can be very expensive to fix. Motors do fail but rarely. And the usual electrics/electronics nightmare that every modern car is.
Brushes need replacing
I'm not sure about this. Most EV motors are AC induction motors that dont have brushes. There may be exceptions, but I have been consuming a lot of media about EVs over the years and I have never heard the word "brushes" related to EVs until today. Vacuum cleaners, yes.
As for electronics - interior stuff, yes, and whilst there is electronics under the bonnet (the inverter) the two main things that kill engine electronics in an ICE are heat and vibration; neither of these exist in any significant amount in an EV so they should be much more reliable.
Of course, failures can occur.
Brushless motors still have brushes, you'll see what I'm refering to in the photo half way down:
https://www.speakev.com/threads/r90-whining-noise-at-low-speed-supposedly-motor-brushes.161815/
As mentioned earlier by molgrips 3 of the Tesla chargers at Fort William don't work with the Ioniq, Chargers 2a,b,c.
Chargers 1abc work.
Just incase I've mixed the numbers up, the 3 on the left as you look at them don't work but the 3 on the right do (nearest the CPS chargers).
Lots of other non Tesla cars had success with the ones on the left though.
I had a Merc and a BMW using 2 chargers but blocking 3 unless you had a charge port on the driver's side.
Brushless motors still have brushes, you’ll see what I’m refering to in the photo half way down:
There are different types of motors used in EVs. The brushes in that Zoe-specific article power the electromagnet on the rotor, but some motors (like mine) have permanent magnets on the rotor and others rely on induced current in the rotor.
https://www.motortrend.com/features/how-electric-cars-work-ev-differences-definitions/
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a39493798/ev-motors-explained/
Currently charging at Larkhall Tesla. Arrived at 15%, started slow, needed to get to 33% before the charging speed maxed out at 47kW.
A few Tesla's have arrived, charged and left in the time I've been sat here, ? (crying eyes emoji).
Arrived at 15%, started slow, needed to get to 33% before the charging speed maxed out at 47kW.
I think that's temperature related, the battery needs to be warm before it hits max speed. So if your driving wasn't enough to warm it in cooler weather, it needs the charging current to warm it up.
Did my first ever EV trip over the weekend - tried to hire a Tesla and got a Merc EQE. Delivered with 96%, drove from Manchester to Southampton picking a colleague up near Northwich. Arrived with 32% and used charger at hotel (only charged at 11kwh despite being 22kw charger but no problem as could just leave it charging) Bit of a faff as needed to download an app and took a few goes plugging in to get to to communicate with the car but fine after. Chickened out of leaving it connected all night as was worried it would be full at 4am then charge me for overstaying so didn't depart with a full battery.
Stopped on way up north but the 4 non tesla chargers were busy (sat afternoon) so went to next services and got on last available charger there at 22kwh so grabbed enough charge to get home during the biblical storm, annoyingly as soon as I disconnected the chap in the Mustang next to us went from 22kw to 44 so obviously shared. Nipped to trafford centre to use Tesla superchargers, downloaded app and was soon enjoying 169kw which was mega.
TLDR With no pre planning or even pre loading apps it was pretty easy for a 1st trip, Tesla chargers are the dogs danglies and the Merc has a massive battery.
only charged at 11kwh despite being 22kw charger
Yeah nearly all cars are 7 or 11kW on AC. The rapid chargers are DC.
Bit of a faff as needed to download an app
Yeah it's these slow AC chargers that often need apps - it seems any chancer can set up a 'charging company' and roll these out for minimum cost so there are loads of them, but they are doing it on the cheap so don't have proper debit card acquiring and rely on an app. Annoying.
got a Merc EQE
How was it?
It was an EQE 350+ so an absolute beast, lovely to drive but a long way out of my budget new. Smooth and comfy, acceleration just bananas so kept it in comfort mode, overall a nice place to be on a long journey and easy in traffic with no gears and regen.
I think that’s temperature related, the battery needs to be warm before it hits max speed. So if your driving wasn’t enough to warm it in cooler weather, it needs the charging current to warm it up.
I drove quicker to Gretna Tesla chargers and on arrival with a similar % remaining the charging speed was in the 40s from the start.
45 minutes later left the charger and drove the remaining 125 miles home with 165 in expected range.
Scraped in back home with less than 5%, showing 0 miles range on the dash and turtle mode.
I'll stick to 65mph next time on the motorway. winky eye.
Return 320 mile journey from Fort William was around 4.5m/kWh.
Overall average for around 1600 miles was 4.9m/kWh .
drove the remaining 125 miles home with 165 in expected range.
Scraped in back home with less than 5%, showing 0 miles range on the dash and turtle mode.
Interesting, that has never happened to me - in fact, the opposite. I can have 200 miles say at 100%, then 100 miles at 50% but by the time I get to 10% it'll be showing 25 miles. So the remaining range goes up in proportion to the battery.
Was that last leg in heavy rain? That'll knock efficiency right down. From your figures it looks like that might've been the case.
It was raining. Not particularly heavy though.
I was making progress in the motorway, near 70mph gps speed for most of the time.
The last 10 miles are hilly at the point of leaving the motorway I had 10 miles leeway over the distance I needed to travel.
The car flagged up that I was down to 10% remaining at 20 miles to go. I was controlling the regen with the paddles so no-one going up hill and a little going down as I reckoned it'd be better rolling than slowing down.
Predicted range dropped from around 6 miles to 0 miles without a countdown. I was on the last downhill leg with some minor ups so not too concerned but I feared that if I stopped it would decide not to start again!
Plugged in and there was around 5% left so maybe a few more miles before stopping completely.
I could have just topped up the battery by a few kW when leaving the motorway as there are plenty of chargers in the area. Next time I'll do that rather than chancing it.
Speed makes a massive difference in the eNiro too. At 60 GPS I can get 240-250 mikes range. At 70 GPS it's more like 180-190.
The speedo reads roughly 10% over speed (vs GPS and odometer) at all speeds.
I did have one trip last year from Aberdeen - Glasgow (around 150 miles) during the winter. There was heavy rain the whole way. I set off with 100% charge at 70mph, expecting to make it home easily. Around 40 miles out from Glasgow I had to slow down as I was not willing to risk it. Got home finally with 10% charge showing.
I've had an unexpected setback now I'm a couple of months into EV ownership.
The DNO has reviewed my install and decided that the cable to my property is not up to snuff to run a charger as well. The cable finds its way into the middle of the house due to an extension.
This is going to be a massive disrupt. I can't see what the easiest way to sort this might be without dismantling the inside of my house.
Luckily, the earliest appointment for this safety critical visit is mid November so at least it'll be after Xmas when the bother starts
Interesting event time... It involves my OH who drives the LEAF, and i'll be honest, her mindset isn't adapted to EV ownership yet (i,e she never plugs the car in, then immediately needs 30kWh 4 minutes before she leaves etc etc!!).
Anyway... here are the reported events:
- she claims she left for a 122km 'there and back' journey on sunday morning with 100% charge (40kWh battery).. with 25 miles left to go the car "suddenly ran out of charge" so she had to pull into a garage to add some charge.
- 18 year old stepdaughter sepnt the whole time screaming at her because she made the traffic jams and made the car run out of charge.
- she got back with 18% charge.
Here are the FACTS - gathered from bank statements and the Nissan app!:
- she travelled 121.8km, using 18.3kHw
- she added one whole english pound of charge at the services (unclear if this is a preauth charge? nothing else showing on the bank statement
- she got home with 18% charge.
- The car has a great battery SOH
- Looking at the OHME app, it appears that we PROBABLY (i saythis, as i recall unplugging my car and plugging hers in, thus it's a new charge session) added 24 ish kWh.
Now...
We all know that the battery charge status decreases in a rather visual manner..by this i mean, it DOESN'T suddenly drop charge in a split second!
And, I'm never 100% convinced she's plugged the car in properly, or let it fully charge, or hasn't accidentally added a charge timer....
I THINK that she didn't actually have 100% charge when she left, and didn't monitor the SOC as she drove, thus the emergeny fill up was required..
She says she definitely left with 100% SOC, and used ALL the battery in under 100km... but...the Nissan app would beg to differ!
DrP
boomerlives
I’ve had an unexpected setback now I’m a couple of months into EV ownership.The DNO has reviewed my install and decided that the cable to my property is not up to snuff to run a charger as well. The cable finds its way into the middle of the house due to an extension.
This is going to be a massive disrupt. I can’t see what the easiest way to sort this might be without dismantling the inside of my house.
What does DNO mean?
Only asking as I'm currently having an extension done on the house & have asked the electrician when it comes to do the wiring, to put in cabling for an EV charger & cap it off for the time being, until we have a requirement for a charger. I figured it would make it easier when we eventually want the charger to have the cabling put in place now.
Is there anything I need to pay special heed to?
I think the electrician mentioned he also does EV charger installs, so hopefully he will know what he is doing when he sorts it out. But, it's nice to have a bit of info in advance.
LOL - mrschrispy also struggles to plug in the car, its literally a 5 second job ffs, I just get a "the car needs charging" comments when she comes in.
There is also unnecessary stress about range, she'll worry that she wont get to her mums and back, its a 30mile round trip when there is 100mile range left :-/
Agree on the Niro, anything over 70 killed the range and it did over read the speed (Polestar speed is bang on GPS speed).
And all of the above is why my better half still drives her dirty diesel even though for 90% of trips she's going less than 10 miles.
Having had my 60kw Megane since Dec '22, I appreciate that there's a certain amount of geeky planning that goes into driving an EV, even one with a (potential) 250 mile range never mind a 40kw Leaf. I charge mostly at home so last charged on Sunday. I've been to work and back yesterday and today, 40 mile round trip each time. My Dad's in hospital at the moment so we're going to see him tonight - another 60mi trip but mostly on the A1. There's no charging infrastructure at the hospital so I had to have a think whether that'll be OK to go in my car. Clearly it will be fine - but I did still need to have a mental 'check'. None of that's an issue in a petrol or diesel, bigger range and 'instant' refuelling all over the place.
Luckily I'm a massive geek so really enjoy planning but not everyone does.
@stumpy01 DNO = Distribution Network Operator. So whoever owns the cable running to your house.
Have a check of your house fuse, general rule seems to be you need 100amp as a charger will draw 32 and the smaller 60ish amp fuses are therefore more likely to blow. Only the DNO can change your house fuse and I would think that if you're already on 100amps then the cable running to the house should be equally rated.
That said, I'd defer to the spark as it's their area of expertise but you can always contact the DNO if you're not sure.
@madhouse - thanks. No idea what the house fuse is rated at. Something I can look into, or at least ask the electrician before he starts working on it.
You can request for the house fuse to be upgraded to 100 amps yourself - it's free. e.g. for the South East the DNO is UK Power Networks.
https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/i-already-have-electricity-domestic/adding-more-power/fuse-upgrade
Luckily I’m a massive geek so really enjoy planning but not everyone does.
Ditto!
But you're right - it's people like our OHs that probably write into the Daily Mail saying "EVs are rubbish and not fit for purpose" when REALLY it's user error....!!
I'm going to check over the LEAF today to ensure it's not leaked 20kWh of electricity into the driveway or something... i'll clunk about for a bit and never mention it again!
DrP
I’m going to check over the LEAF today to ensure it’s not leaked 20kWh of electricity into the driveway
Careful; those electrons can be a bit prickly if you stand on them in the wet.
Have a check of your house fuse, general rule seems to be you need 100amp as a charger will draw 32 and the smaller 60ish amp fuses are therefore more likely to blow.
Most chargers can be set up to monitor and limit their load, so with the right charger, and an installer who knows what they are doing, a 60 amp fuse can be fine. Mine was set up in this way for a couple of weeks until the DNO had upgraded my fuse, then the charger installer came back and recalibrated it for a 100 amp fuse.
So who do people rate as the best charger install and smart tariff provider.
We are on Octopus, so am looking at getting a smart meter installed and EV charger from them.
Smart meter is a doddle, can get a next day appointment. But getting a charger it seems impossible to speak to a human to discuss options etc. They just want to bill me £1k without a survey of the property or anything else. Frustrating.
Should i persevere with Octopus or should i get a different provider like Cord in to install their charger. They say they are compatible w Octopus smart tariffs.
TIA
Octopus were quoting a lead time of something like 9 weeks when I was looking for an install, so I contacted a few independents and then chose one based on both price but also how intelligent they seemed when going through the quotation process. For most of them they wanted a load of images of the consumer unit, main fuse, proposed charger location and route between them to give a quote.
I went with these lot in the end and they were brilliant. Bit more than the Octopus price but did a great job, and within a week of first contacting them. https://cawoods.net/
Well we went on our first longer journey in the Zoe yesterday, Cardiff to the Botanical Gardens (near Carmarthen) and back. Home charger is still to be installed, though we now have a date next week, so we topped up to 80% at Cardiff Gate, from about 40%, took about the time to have a leisurely coffee. Was down to 18% when we got home. All very uneventful really.
@susepic - I bought an Ohme Home Pro charger from Electricpoint and got a local installer to fit it. An hour to view the property and agree a cable route followed by a few hours to install the following week.
Then changed our Octopus tariff to Intelligent Octopus Go and it's been fine.
EV driving is uneventful. But wait until your 18% remaining is 0% and you have a few miles to get home with warning lights and turtles appearing on the dash! Winky eye.
Ohme seems to still be the go to, I've previously had an ohme smart cable (for a dumb untethered charger) and it worked well with octopus tariffs. If I got a smart charger I'd probably go with ohme again. And, I think it's one of the cheaper ones.
Also I'd stick with octopus, get a smart meter installed asap and get on a smart tariff. Octopus intelligent go tariff if you want it straightforward, agile octopus if you're prepared to make a few little sacrifices and get a bit nerdy (you don't have to, but the more nerdy you get the more you'll save)
You can use apps such as Octopus Compare to monitor your savings and usage, you just enter your octopus API in the app. I also use Octopus Tariff app to monitor the agile prices.
Also worth getting an electroverse card whilst your at it and have it linked to your general octopus account.
Thanks Dove and BAnana - have booked the smart meter swap w Octopus, trying to talk to a human re charger so may find a local installer which might be quicker (in Sussex). The Ohme looks good, but reliant on good 3/4G it seems, so thinking Zappi as that is WiFi driven.
I had my Ohme charger installed via Octopus last month, turnaround was about 2 weeks (though I am in Greater London) and the guys that did it were fantastic.
Ohme are official charging partner for a lot of manufacturers so you would a quality product.
Quick one whilst the leccy brigade are reading.....
Considering getting our holiday let a charge point before the tax changes next April. Going on the self catering owners fb pages (they exist and make this place look like the sunny uplands. For people who have set themselves up to make people happy holiday experiences, a more dower and glass half empty bunch **** knuckles could not be found) are split into 4.
1. (the biggest) - we don't supply petrol, why would we possibly do this?
2. have a domestic grade charger and just let people use it FOC as part of the experience.
3. have a domestic charger and monitor their use and ask guests to transfer the money at the end of the week.
4. Install something like the Go Zero ( https://gozerocharge.com/articles/optimus-ev-features/custom-made-ev-charger-for-airbnb-holiday-homes/) charger unit and charge guests a bit of a premium (50-60p kwh seems common) to pay for the facility/ make a bit of money from it.
I'm torn - number 2 feels like you'd be paying for a lot of miles for a few, subsidised by the many. Number 3 feels like a faff and an unwanted reason to fall out with guests. Number 4 has a whiff of mini bar about it.
If you were on holiday in a (relatively remote) cottage with an EV I'm assuming it would be a big plus but what cost would be your tipping point from it being a lovely touch to feeling like it's taking advantage of you?
We've only had 2 EVs stay so far but it's bound to increase. And the local airport has a fleet of them being hired out by one of the firms.
The fact I live next door and could plug into it to recharge my own (not yet purchased) EV when not being used by the guests and use the business' leccy is obviously not something I would do...and in no way part of my thinking.
I use holiday cottages a lot and don’t expect to be able to charge my car for free. More so now as the cost of a full charge could be considerable if the cottage owner is not on an EV-friendly tariff and it’s a car with a big battery.
Option 4 at cost would seem reasonable to me. You’re making your profit margin on the rent of the cottage itself. Having a managed service also makes it clear to the user what they’re paying for and you’ve no worries about managing payments.
We got free charge at 3kW/h in France this summer at an air BnB which was great. We also happily paid an agreed fee for 22kw/h charger at an air BnB in Yorkshire.
Generally if the price was reasonable, I'd be happy to pay. Charging is now a key consideration in our accommodation selection.
Option 4 looks like the best balance, but I would suggest setting the charge rate to be the actual electricity cost or a very small (5-10p max) uplift.
Given that EV owners are generally very aware of prevailing rates and probably used to ver low overnight rates at home if you set this at 50-60p it could come across as profiteering. Given that the the customer has generally paid you quite a lot of money already for the stay this would leave more of a bitter taste than it’s worth for the few pounds difference. Better to make it an “at cost” provision, advertise as such and make your extra money from the higher rate you can charge for the rental itself.
whatgoesup has it IMO
destination charing is on our list of whats if its semi remote but Id bork at high rates that are just taking the pish.
would not expect it to be free but its would be a plus if it was.
realistically you are looking at big charge when they first arrive and tops ups over the week.
I use holiday cottages a lot and don’t expect to be able to charge my car for free.
Me neither, but it's handy sometimes. Especially if a remote location. It makes things that bit easier.
They could charge me 50-60p, I wouldn't care - it's still cheaper than a rapid, and more convenient, so who cares? You're already paying loads of money for the house, from which they make a profit, how is this different? You're saving money and gaining convenience, but it's not enough because you think someone else is making a profit from offering you an optional service (how very dare they). Talk about glass half empty 🙂
probably used to ver low overnight rates at home
You're a private individual, the holiday let is a business and business rates are MUCH higher than domestic ones. Plus the charger probably cost a grand or more to install.
I'm looking for a new car to replace my Hyundai Tuscon hybrid in December and have been considering going electric. Yesterday I drove from Kent to Barnsley and noticed two things which have put me off. I get the concept of charging the car while you're having a mid-journey break but the services I stopped at had 4 charging points, all in use by the same cars while I was in the services, so that wouldn't work. I also noticed a lot of EVs doing 60mph on the motorway, which doesn't appeal to me. I think my next car will still have some form of ICE.
I think 2 depends on how much use someone is likely to get from the charger. Worst case scenario they're going to be doing a full charge (~£6) when the arrive then maybe a couple of quid a day after that. An easy option might be a flat fee (£5/night?) if they want access to the charger - they can use it as much as they want, but keeps the cost lower for non-ev-ers
Option 4 is good. We rented a place on North Uist in the summer, and it had a Vend Electric 7kw charger. As per molgrips, was a fantastic addition and made for a faff free break in quite a remote place. I think it was about 45p/kw, quite happy with that as very convenient.
I think my next car will still have some form of ICE.
Don't be put off by superficial observations.
If you were driving an EV the car (or an app) would tell you were the available chargers were and you'd stop accordingly. It's not that hard when you are in the swing.
I've not had mine that long, but doing about 1000miles/week you get in the groove pretty quickly. I had extended tests of few cars and all were usable, some easier than others.
And having an EV has increased my home electric usage by 40%, but my monthly bill has actually gone down.
Is there anything I need to pay special heed to?<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-border-spacing-x: 0; --tw-border-spacing-y: 0; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246/0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />I think the electrician mentioned he also does EV charger installs, so hopefully he will know what he is doing when he sorts it out. But, it’s nice to have a bit of info in advance
You have no chance. The DNO sent a geezer out to replace the backboard in my meter cupboard before smart meters could be installed. I spoke to him about getting a car charger and he upgraded the fuse to 100A. He did not have any concern about the condition or dimensions of the supply cabling so what chance has an average sparky got?
If you are in the NW Hart Electric did a great job on my tricky install. Plus I could talk him through what I wanted.
The Octopus installers have no idea what your property is like despite a survey - it's an ambush for them and they try to make the best of it.
I also noticed a lot of EVs doing 60mph on the motorway, which doesn’t appeal to me.
You only notice them because they are EVs. There are lots of ICEs doing 60mph on the motorway as well.
Honestly, it's not a thing. Don't worry about it. Range is fine.
the services I stopped at had 4 charging points, all in use by the same cars
Most cars will route you to where the free chargers are at any given time. So even if you know the way, put the destination in and mute the guidance, and it'll tell you want to do. Or just head for the ones with lots of chargers. Some services have 2 or 4 chargers, others have 30+. But this is changing all the time - my local services had 2, now they have 10. They are popping up absolutely everywhere, there's strip of 8 or 10 by the look of it going in at the retail park near J33 of the M4 or example.
As a driver of one EV and one diesel, I can't wait to get rid of the diesel. Look at it this way - imagine if there were a way that you could fill your car up for £5 instead of £50? Well, there is.
Dumb question possibly...
But if you have a holiday let what is to stop a punter running a three pin charger lead out to their car through a door / window etc?
I think my next car will still have some form of ICE.
I thought that until I dug a bit deeper and came to the conclusion that hybrid was the worst of both worlds. I'm not saying that route isn't best for you, but I am saying that you should look into it properly - people drive like Miss Daisy in all types of car, you're assuming it was the car that was the catalyst for the slower speed, rather than the driver.
As for holiday let charging, I think you're right in thinking it'll become more of a thing, although at present anyone could turn up to a let with a 3pin charger and draw 3kWh all day long. I'd say guests would be happy to pay a fee for a 7kWh supply as long as it's at a rate that's comparable with the rest of the market.
the services I stopped at had 4 charging points
Charging at motorway services is improving at an incredible pace; whilst at the moment it's prudent to check that the services you stop at will have enough chargers (the last one I used had 24 plus 20 Tesla superchargers) I expect in a couple of years you won't have to worry. I drive at "motorway" speeds. Teslas still go flying past me.
But if you have a holiday let what is to stop a punter running a three pin charger lead out to their car through a door / window etc?
Your own conscience, that's all.
And the fact it'll take 37 hours to charge a reasonable EV from 1 - 100%
But if you have a holiday let what is to stop a punter running a three pin charger lead out to their car through a door / window etc?
A shitty earth. Do you tell the owner their house earth doesn't comply with the regs because they'll obviously ask how you know and then you'll reply "my car charger tells me and won't work".
But if you have a holiday let what is to stop a punter running a three pin charger lead out to their car through a door / window etc?
In this specific situation....me! I live next door. Like, the guests have to drive through my drive to get to and from and I can see their parking area from my side of the fence. It's a requirement of the letting agent that guests don't charge from a domestic 3 pins they get reminded about it by them in an email and our welcome notes. Our insurance won't cover fire or damage because of it and I'm not aware of another provider who would. If they did they did they'd be knowingly going against clear requests. And generally the guests we have are nice people who would not do that. Plenty of forum traffic of other holiday let operators who are not on site either finding people doing it or suspecting/worrying people are.
Think we're going for option 4 with Go Zero Charge. They add a 6p per KW for running the network and processing the transaction so the at cost price would be around 34p/kwh.
I charged our car out of the window of a static caravan for about 10hrs. I set the charger to like 5A though. Was I the arsehole?
We only rent accomm where we can charge. Last place in kentallan Scotland was 3 pin out of window. I have no problem paying as long as it's reasonable (up to 30p/kWh). Any reasonable person would understand that you don't buy the petrol for ice guests. You just need to be able to meter it. Not sure how you could stop sneaking off without paying, maybe ask for a deposit on arrival with settlement on last day. I think I can lock the cover for the on/off trip switch on mine, for some control over usage.
My dad added a 7kW charger at his farm (he has an AirBnb in a glamping pod). The number of people who turn up in EVs and expect a free charge is astonishing. He set the price at 26p/kWh and still has issues with people filling up and legging it if he doesn't get the cash out of them in advance.
Obviously AirBnB refund it out of the deposit but you can't imagine someone filling up at the petrol station next to a hotel and thinking that the tank of fuel is included in the stay.