[Closed] The Eastleigh by-election result

I take it you've never been to Martine's then?

The most worrying aspect of the result is that the Tory backbenchers will spectacularly miss the point, and start screaming that they were beaten by UKIP because they aren't right wing enough! Expect a further cranking up of the anti-immigrant, anti-scrounger, anti-public services, pro-privatisation,full-on nasty party rhetoric from Dave, while Nick and his Lib Dem chums sit sucking their thumbs

Be afraid! Be very afraid

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And imagine the smugness of Clegg this morning, in effect his bad behaviour is being rewarded so no doubt we'll get more of it. At least by-election results are unique and not completely representative of public opinion but you'd expect even the unsophisticated electorate of Eastleigh to have enough brains to realise that they're being shafted...

I did like Farrage saying that if the Conservatives hadn't split the vote that UKIP would have won 😆 , but the question that I can't find an answer for is how bad do the Liberals have to be to get the kicking that I'm fairly sure they deserve ?

I don't agree with much that Farage says but I think he's got a great voice.

Wish they'd get him to do a Book at Bedtime on Radio4.

Expect a further cranking up of the anti-immigrant, anti-scrounger, anti-public services, pro-privatisation,full-on nasty party rhetoric from Dave, while Nick and his Lib Dem chums sit sucking their thumbs

Cameron is in a pickle and i find it brilliant
the right wing vote splintering into the closet racists and the more genetly right wing Tory will harm them massively in an election- well I hope so anyway but i am not sur ehow real it will actually be tbh in a real election but we should not read too much into a "protest" vote.

Still it is a problem for Dave and will get the rabid right wing tories frothing which will be amusing to see
Its sort of funny as euro scepticism is a proper millstone round their kneck and they will struggle with this for some while IMHO.

As for libs I feel a bit sorry for Clegg
If there was no concrete claims and only rumour then what was he expected to do?
He took him to one side warned him then managed him out of the organisation which seems a reasonable process for any "employer" tbh.
Its not his fault an MP lied tbh and has an ex-wife making massive trouble for him.

As for voting Lib dem in a choice between UKIP or Tory its not hard to see why they kept their vote

If people think UKIP are a good idea then this country's in trouble. They're heading towards the extreme, which = dogma and anti-change, anti-immigration.

Right now, we need to be open-minded and progressive if we want to go forwards rather than backwards. I've never found being close-minded helpful in a crisis...

So if this means the UK electorate think UKIP represent their needs and the best way forward then maybe it's time to leave 🙁

the question that I can't find an answer for is how bad do the Liberals have to be to get the kicking that I'm fairly sure they deserve ?

It's all relative, it's more a reflection on the lack of decent competition....

I've never found being close-minded helpful in a crisis...

However, it sells papers and keep the rabble in check, which is why so many media magnets ensure their papers keep feeding the bile to the masses...

[quote=brooess ]
So if this means the UK electorate think UKIP represent their needs and the best way forward then maybe it's time to leave Some of us are trying to....

Hopefully the nasty party being beaten into 3rd will mean pressure on Cameron and Gideon to get the boot. But then who knows what kind of mental may be unleashed on us by their replacements....

As always, the Mash has it:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/tories-beaten-by-perfect-storm-of-huhne-rennard-and-nutjobs-2013030161514

If people think UKIP are a good idea then this country's in trouble. They're heading towards the extreme, which = dogma and anti-change, anti-immigration.

UKIP are the absolute epitome of 'Little Englander' mindset. They only tend to get anywhere in the blue-rinse shires, full of retired colonels who write letters to the Daily Telegraph in green ink. The ones banging on and on and on about immigration generally tend to live in places that don't actually have any immigrants. But they keep reading in the Daily Mail that we're being 'swamped' by them

Those of us who live in more diverse multi-cultural, and less.... whats the word?.... I'll be diplomatic... less '[i]insular[/i]' areas, don't tend to have the same rabid, reactionary attitudes. Well... the minority that do will tend to go the whole hog and just vote BNP, instead of trying to dress up their backward attitudes as something more socially acceptable

But then who knows what kind of mental may be unleashed on us by their replacements....

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Be afraid! Be very afraid

If people think UKIP are a good idea then this country's in trouble. They're heading towards the extreme, which = dogma and anti-change, anti-immigration.

Whatever the result, this country is doomed. The national debt keeps rising - a problem which is probably impossible to solve. When interest rates rise, which they will, our debt mountain will increase. The nhs will be sold, state pensions abolished, anarchy will erupt.

What to do about it? Emigtrate? I've no idea. But what i will never do is vote in the party which put us into this cronic mess. There is no way Balls and Sillyband should be given the responsibility of getting us out of this mess which they were part of the party which created this mess! Especially as they want to spend their way out. OMFG!

Rant over

how did steeler's wheel put it?

"***kwits to the left of me, evil **cist **nts to the right, here i am. stuck in the middle with..."

anyone?

answers on a postcard please.

edward2000 - I actually think it's a deliberate plot. The labour party knows how *ed the country is, and realised that the last thing they want is to actually do is get elected and have to sort it out. The problem is that these crop of Tories are so utterly obnoxious and nasty - which isn't in itself a problem - if they weren't so incompetent with it. This is now a problem

So to prevent being elected next time they had to do something radical. Who could possibly lose to Dave and Gideon and chums, after they've *ed the ecomnomy even more, privatised the NHS. There's only one thing for it....

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I mean... NOBODY could seriously vote for that muppet, could they? Look at him FFS Ha ha ha... he's like a rabbit in the headlights. He's a glove puppet who speaks like a children's TV character!!! Ha ha haaaaaaa.

But there's a vague chance some people might still get really really desperate and put a cross next to his name. Hang on a minute?! I've got it!!!!! It can't fail!!!!! Its genius!!!!! Think about it.... which single person has less economic credibility than anyone else in the country? Exactly!!!!! Lets make him chancellor of the exchequer .......

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Champagne anyone?

binners - quality, proper made me laugh out loud.

You are aware that Gideon/Tories matched that spending plans of labour prior to the GLOBAL economic slump caused by the collapse of the sub prime markets in the US. Given the global nature and the generally accepted cause to blame labour for this for this is frankly silly
Its anlysis like this that leads to UKIP voting tbh

Its just a rant and not very factual
Liek the Tories you cannot blame them for the events but you can judge them on the consequences of their actions.

Anyone see Herman Van Rompuy last night, great line about negotiating whilst having your hand on the knob (exit door). Basically shrugging his shoulders at Camerons euro referendum idea and suggesting that the exits over there, feel free to use it.

Bluff called IMHO both in Europe and Eastleigh

Especially as they want to spend their way out. OMFG!

That's the only way that's been proven to end depressions afaik.

Imagine you're a farmer. You plant your field, you harvest your grain. There's some left over to sell, some to eat and some to re-plant. You don't quite meet your bills, so you're in trouble.

So, if you borrow money you can buy a new field, then take the grain you would've sold and plant that. Next year (and every year after that) you can sell double the grain.

That's an example of spending to eliminate a deficit. It's not that crazy of an idea.

Junkyard - The FSA was set up by Gordon Brown. The FSA failed to regulate the banks and did not stop reckless lending. I think I can blame labour to an extent. But thats not my point, which is how to move forward.

Balls and Milliband. Ye Gods.

I was particularly disturbed to read the other day that this is Labour's current shadow health minister:

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Other than making racist comments about Finnish nurses, I am at a loss to understand what experience she has that qualifies her position as spokesperson for Health. Abbot is typical of the self-serving career politicians that seem to infest the Labour party (and indeed politics in general), whose main aim is to line their own pockets and secure lucrative careers outside of politics, rather than actually doing anything about the issues they use to promote themselves. A friend has the misfortune to have to occasionally work with Abbott, and describes her as '****ing useless'. And if that's all Labour have to offer, then British politics is well and truly doomed.

thx1138 - Labours shadow health minister is Andy Burnham. Who probably would be the leader of the labour party if they actually serious about getting elected. Which they clearly aren't, as I think he got even less votes than that hideous harpy in the leadership election. And they ended up with a glove puppet instead

Abbott - I'm fully committed to the principle of comprehensive education, though of course I'll be sending my own kids to private school. Pretty much says it all about the present labor party 🙄

The FSA was set up by Gordon Brown. The FSA failed to regulate the banks and did not stop reckless lending

PersonallY i would take from this that you cannot regulate markets and that boom and bust is what capitlaism does - a quick look at history should show you this cycle

Blaming any govt for this is a bit pointless tbh. I doubt you will find anyone who thinks the Tories would have regulated the city further - see their objection to any attempt currently for example so not sure why you are labour bashing them for this tbh

which is how to move forward.

Bit odd how these threads just turn into a bash the party you like the least

I shall exit stage left and leave you to it

JY - open your eyes eh mate. This is Gordon Brown in 2007. Yes... just before the people he was busy praising nearly bankrupted us.

Yes, you know what you're getting with the Tories. They'll always put the interests of their friends in the city before anyone else. We know this. They hardly even bother to pretend otherwise. But don't delude yourself that the frankly embarrassing sycophancy exhibited here wasn't completely indicative of the labour parties attitude too. The bankers got away with it because Gordon Brown let them. No... [b]encouraged[/b] them

Bit odd how these threads just turn into a bash the party you like the least

no surprise really, considering that there is no party worthy of support.
it's like betting on the lame horse in race between a lamer horse, Red Rum (deceased) and a Findus Lasagna.

My mistake Binners. Apparently she was the shadow health minister at one point. Nasty vile woman. I hate the way she's manipulated race issues to get into power, and the way she hypocritically patronises the people she is supposed to represent. A very cunning and duplicitous individual. I can't believe she was ever even considered as Labour leader; can you imagine???

Labour need to have a clean sweep and start again. Get rid of all the Blairites and get back to their core values, if there is ever to be a viable leftist opposition in this country. I'm tempted to join the Hackney Labour Party just so I can go and shout at Abbott at meetings. 😡

Abbott - I'm fully committed to the principle of comprehensive education, though of course I'll be sending my own kids to private school. Pretty much says it all about the present labor party

(Edit: I'd better not say that actually. Might get into trouble)

It looks like a simple thing that gave UKIP an increased share, they got ordinary white folk to vote for them, and probably a goodly share who never usually vote.

Previously parties have always tried to aim for the swing-vote, but here it's like UKIP went after the 'why vote, nothing ever changes' folk. And if they concentrate with the policy they're onto a winner - 'cos if the folk that traditional don't vote, voted - they'd win.

My eyes are open the problem is capitalism not how to manage capitlaism

It does boom and bust and IMHO regulation is no answer

Change the system or accept the consequences

I am hardly likely to defend eithe rBrown or bankers now am I but it seems daft to blame him for this

Capitlaism is the cause of all this it like trying to manage a sinking ship and then blaming those doing the bailing out for the sinking - its going to happen whatever you do

As far as i am aware no western G7 democracy has faired well during this crissis so regulation or approach would seem to matter not one jot

There's a lot of truth in that br. Its like when the BNP did got a lot of votes in some pretty disadvantaged northern towns like Rochdale and Oldham.

The people there would only ever vote labour, if they bothered to vote at all. So labour took their vote for granted and didn't even bother campaigning. Then the BNP turned up and pretty damn shrewdly started canvassing, saying 'what are the labour party actually doing for the white working class?"

The result was a wake up call for the labour party, as I'm sure yesterdays was for the Tories

I know this is going to draw the "it was Fathcer what dun it" response, but in all fairness to everyone currently wrestling with the current economic situation, the reason for it is directly attributable to her governments policies. Twas her government who deregulated the banks, and devastated the traditional bed rock of the British economy. Basically turning our economy into one where as you see daily, we are held to ransom by the city boys, (its my bonus and I'll go home if I can't have it).
The fact that attempts to re-regulate the bastards have been unsuccessful does not change the origin.

Well it was set up after the failure of the previous regulator so it is a bit of a moot point to claim Brown set it up

And how did this failure manifest itself?

Capitlaism is the cause of all this

Don't agree entirely.

I would love a non-capital based system, but I don't think it would ever work.

Therefore the requirement is for well managed capitalism.

Therefore the requirement is for well managed capitalism.

You do realise that no one has ever managed to achieve that, don't you ?

Even the most advanced and successful capitalist economies can realistically only expect about 10 years of economic stability, perhaps 20 years if they are extremely lucky.

So as JY suggests, either change the system or accept the consequences.

Unless of course you have know of a solution which no one else has thought of ? 🙂

Which would indeed be remarkable as there is no distinction between the successes of capitalism and its failures, both are the same. For example, maximising profits and minimising cost is what makes capitalism successful, it's also what makes it fail.

You can't have boom without bust........there is no such thing as boom and boom.