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What’s the guidance on stove use at the moment, given the fire risk?
Peak District National Park website suggests “no open fire or flame” and I’ve seen signs which state this includes stoves. Obviously if the campsite allows it, that’s one thing, but what are the kids being told about using stoves in the wild?
Have just asked No. 1 and she’s under the impression they’re only going to be allowed to use them at the campsite but she’s doing Bronze. She also tells me they’ve got gas stoves which seems at odds with email from school saying Trangias, so…
Hmmm... Just checked and it would suggest a £2500 fine where I'm going on Saturday (Haworth). Going to have to re-think.
EDIT - Sandwiches for my lot on the Scouts Expedition this weekend whilst out on the moors. Stove skills to be demonstrated on a hard standing at the hostel.
EDIT EDIT - You can get gas conversions for Trangias.
What’s the guidance on stove use at the moment, given the fire risk?
Peak District National Park website suggests “no open fire or flame” and I’ve seen signs which state this includes stoves. Obviously if the campsite allows it, that’s one thing, but what are the kids being told about using stoves in the wild?
That's a good question. I suspect that *most* DoE groups in the PDNP actually use (semi-)official camp sites these days due to the advantages of toilets, water etc. So less of an issue. Having seen on the news some campers helo'd out of a fire area last weekend I imagine some risk assessments are getting updated! Generally DoE official policy has been pragmatic and flexible to deal with problems that arise - which weren't the young people's fault, so I would expect an assessor/supervisor to agree that if camping stoves are unsafe due to the wildfire risk that access to some church / scout / village hall / campsite kitchen / the assessor's van to stick stuff on a hob was a reasonable change of plan.
Chuck my thoughts in the ring having been through both Scouts and direct gold DoE as a kid and then 20 plus years of pondering the impact of the "rules and conventions" across University clubs and backpacking in USA, Canada, Europe.
OP food query - Our default is cheap 69p noodles, the ones that take 2mins to boil and you get to drink the broth. Child loves them and often requested them as tea at home as well. Various options for pimping dependent on time and effort, weekend we had the full evolved option. Boil up water and add dehydrated pea protein chunks (£4 for a bag that does 2 adults across 2 meals). Leave them to the side for about 20 mins. Reboil water for noodles, add noodle blocks and prechopped sugar snap peas, carrot, pepper and spring onion. 2 mins boil gives veg with an bite, but keep the pieces small. Add the pea protein back in with the flavor sachets and additional seasoning to taste, bit of chili flake and soy in this instance. We have done weekend trips with this as the evening meal, adding in veg gyoza on the first day (the frozen ones, they defrost but are ok first day) as they just need a bit of a boil to warm through. Keeps the cost much lower than packaged dehydrated meals but its not using massive amounts for fuel.
Porridge sachets for breakfast (and a couple of backups for hungry days) and lunch wraps.
Stoves - i've had all the advice listed above in the past, DoE liked Trangia, Scouts had terror stories of meths fires from refilling while lit, did all my expeditions with a pierceable canister camping gas stove and a borrowed trangia pan as they are light. If i was buying fresh for my child a £15 gas stove and a small pan from decathlon, vango, etc would be my choice. I often carry a MSR whisperlite with smallest possible petrol bottle these days as gas is expensive and i'm trying to minimize waste.
What does interest me is the range of advice on required minimal equipment and how this is applied across experience and activity. Completely get and understand making sure people have sufficient equipment and clothing to survive and be comfortable but i can't be the only one who has helped a group passing bags over stile and thought what in the hell are they carrying.
Fair play to all those on here who are assisting young people get into the outdoors in a responsible way
Completely get and understand making sure people have sufficient equipment and clothing to survive and be comfortable but i can't be the only one who has helped a group passing bags over stile and thought what in the hell are they carrying.
I'm pretty sure that many of them have had advice that they probably don't need ALL of that - sometimes the point a 14 yr old realises they may not know everything is about 4 miles into day 1! Although I dare say some of the supervisors will be products of the scheme themselves and may be passing on their expectations from 20-40 years before, from people who did it 20-40 yrs before that when lightweight technical fabrics etc didn't exist. And many a 14 yr old has a mother who thinks they are being helpful by packing extra stuff - just in case.
Completely get and understand making sure people have sufficient equipment and clothing to survive and be comfortable but i can't be the only one who has helped a group passing bags over stile and thought what in the hell are they carrying.
It's often a combination of cheap borrowed kit (no sane DofE provider would hand lightweight kit to a Bronze group) and inexperience. It's worth remembering that this can be some of the first time some of the kids have done anything like this so they are bound to bring useless stuff. It's absolutely part of the learning experience for them, and certainly for some kids no amount of advice is going to stop them from bringing their favourite four hoodies (or whatever) for the campsite.
She also tells me they’ve got gas stoves which seems at odds with email from school saying Trangias, so…
Very likely to be trangias with the gas covnersion kits. A bit heavy and bulky, but really stable and windproof. And most importantly quite hard for teenagers to break.
Daughter did her Bronze practice at the end of last month and now just back from Ten-Tors practice on Dartmoor. They were stopped by some independent assessors who apparently roam Dartmoor checking up on the various groups of young people. The students were carrying all their kit (tent, sleeping bag, food stoves etc), but the one thing the assessors wanted to see was their trowel, in case they got caught short.................
but the one thing the assessors wanted to see was their trowel, in case they got caught short.................
Ten Tors is an odd one. I reckon it would not get across the line as a new event if someone invented it today. 2500 kids plus adult volunteers all landing in one area all at the same time. That's a lot of turd potential! Obviously safety is THE priority, but I'd imagine the PR fallout of 'turdgate' in the weeks after the event could be enough to get it cancelled. There is a reason Outward Bound use 'poo tubes' when camping kids in areas they use week after week after week.
I do not want, or need, to know what a "poo tube" is. Ever.
Off on her practice hike this weekend. Apparently the catering option of choice is pasta pesto made communally.
"She also tells me they’ve got gas stoves "
Reminds me of the time I was at the bothy in Glen Feshie. I heard shouts from the next room. A group of kids on an expedition had set their gas stove on fire assembling the burner and cartridge close to a candle.
Bothies usually have a fire bucket or blanket but in the moment I just kicked it out the door. Could have been worse. A big room is lot better than a stove flaming in a tent. They were camping outside but had used the bothy to cook.
I was never a fan of meths Triangas but they were as foolproof as any stove could be.
I was never a fan of meths Triangas but they were as foolproof as any stove could be.
Well you say that, but more than once I've seen people try and fill them up whilst still alight...
All will be revealed about Trangias when they get back tomorrow.
There were varying degrees of apparent preparedness/size of rucksack at drop off. Some of them looked uncomfortable, others looked fine but might have had to get their mates to help them to their feet Royal Marine style.
Meths Trangias. No noise, no visible flame and liquid accelerant. What could possibly go wrong?
They’ve had teachers supervising them last night presumably partly to mitigate the risk of fiery death. Not sure if this happens in the real one?
She’s back and absolutely trashed. Adamant they had gas Trangias…
Is there any trick to airing a tent other than hanging it on the line?
She’s back and absolutely trashed. Adamant they had gas Trangias…
Is there any trick to airing a tent other than hanging it on the line?
To air a tent, we just pitch it in the garden with the doors and vents open. Even cures the odours from two teenage lads sharing a tent for 2-3 nights.
To be fair, we do the same to dry them. Though our Scout hut has convenient fixtures to string ropes and tents up if their bigger tents get soaked.
Yeah, just pitch it (assuming you have space) and leave all vents open...door maybe not fully opened but certainly unzipped helps as well.
Obviously hope it doesn't rain whilst the tent is up and airing!
Update:
He's about to start day 4 of his gold.
Barnoldswick - Malham
Malham - Horton in Ribblesdale
Horton in Ribblesdale - Austwick (with the Ingleborough thrown in)
Austwick - Malham
81km in the first three days and, apart from Friday morning, it has hosed it down the entire time!
The departures were staggered on day 1, with the faster teams from the practice event leaving first to prevent them all going round in a big bunch.
Not had much in the way of communication other than his new socks were comfy and he has broken his hair brush.
Good luck @Harry_the_spider Jr!
Bronze apparently completed successfully here. She's already talking about Silver...
Daughter did Gold in the Cairngorms three weeks ago. She won't admit it but it sounds like they had a great time. Covered 100km and finished off with a reindeer walk at the reindeer centre. Its pretty much the same group that started out on bronze together so they know what they are doing. Good kit choices and they seemed to manage the whole thing really well.
I keep happening on the teachers watching and waiting for the kids at various places outdoors.
Two lady irish teachers outside YHA Blacksail the other week both sat with binocs trained up Black Sail pass from Wasdale. 'I've got 3, now 4 now 5, as the kids appeared to them' I hiked up Great Gable from there and I saw the kids coming down and they went for a paddle in the river oblivious that Teach was waiting for them. Another one Sat near the bridge in Lathkill dale the other day, cross legged on the grass drinking coffee. I stopped to chat and he told me what he was doing, said he'd have to wait there all day, great gig I thought. I passed some of the kids later on on top of the valley (not the valley path) and they looked a little bit lost, map in hand and arguing. I asked if they needed help and they insisted that they didn't and I carried on, chuckling.
My 14 yr old daughter did her Bronze recently and had to hike from Hulme End in the PD to Chrome Hill. That's not very far I thought and offered to take her up there just me and her the week before so we could scope out the routes and she's be the saviour of the day. 'Noooo Dad,' she said and 'shut the door please' .
What I wouldn't give to be 14 and go for a day hike with my Dad (now sadly passed) but you can't tell them eh.
He's back. Looking a bit weather beaten and got a burn off a Trangia that had already been lit, but other than he survived.
His new socks saved his feet, which is a bonus as they were a bloody mess after the 3 day practice run a couple of months ago.