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Seeing as it looks like there are a number of us parenting DofE participants…
So, No. 1 spawn has been told she needs some boil in the bag meals for her exped. Any recommendations?
Pot Noodle?
That has been considered, yes (especially given that they’re only away for one night). As has my mate’s suggestion that his slightly older child existed on Nutella sandwiches for hers.
I’m not sure I’d get that past HQ1, or school, however.
Supernoodles pack smaller than pot noodles do.
Pasta'n'sauce can also work.
I help a local school with their expeditions - an extra pair of eyes and I can ride about between places quicker than walking...always a bit of a surprise at what the kids bring for food - the variety and range is impressive. 1 guy brought 4 tins of bakes beans are them cold - by the second stop on day 1 he was down to 1 can and got reminded he was out for 3 days (he for some reason thought we were all going home after that day and returning the next! His mum had repacked his bag and put plenty food in...he was crying when he discovered that (he was known to have some issues with time longer than a day so had packed for a day including tent and overnight gear!).
Another brought 4 packs of Haribo as they had issues with food not cooked by their mum - despite the fact they were cooking their own food - she was shocked to discover her favourite macaroni cheese (Cheesy Pasta came out a box!)
All the way through to the person who watched cooked some chicken meals and chilli meals and just reheated on the stove...
Just make sure it is food they enjoy eating and is easy to make.
A note of caution about Pot Noodles: there's a bit of a 'thing' with some DofE assessors that Pot Noodles are FORBIDDEN. Even though there clearly isn't some papyrus scroll somewhere banning certain foods, they might get a bit of grief for bringing them.
Back when I was a leader (and assessor) I was ok with potted foods - I would usually have some posh dehydrated stuff for myself anyway so it would be a bit hypocritical to be picky. That said, I would always encourage kids to think about how much packaging they want to carry on subsequent days and most would opt for something like super noodles instead. Add some kind of processed meat or cheese and you have a royal feast right there.
If you want to spend a bit extra, most of the packaged stuff in outdoors shops is fine.
Army MRE. My lad used them on Silver and will be doing the same on Gold.
This, with the "Wayfarer", a couple of porridge pots and some flapjack will keep him going for 3 days and 2 nights.
No washing up either.
I think the Wayfayrer meals (made in my home town, or at least home council area, fact fans) are essentially Army MREs, even if there’s a suspicious lack of Biscuits Brown AB.
A note of caution about Pot Noodles: there's a bit of a 'thing' with some DofE assessors that Pot Noodles are FORBIDDEN.
Why is that? It's is a bit nuts!
What's the difference between super noodles and pot noodles other than the latter comes in a pot that can be used afterwards so you don't need a bowl/pot.
We deliver* our racing yacht (literally zero cooking facilities other than a jet boil) and pot noodles are the go to for most trips.
* Moving it with a shorthanded crew between racing events
Why is that? It's is a bit nuts!
Don’t know for sure but my suspicion is that it’s from the days when the award was a lot less inclusive than it is now. Simple snobbery is my best guess.
I think the Wayfayrer meals (made in my home town, or at least home council area, fact fans) are essentially Army MREs, even if there’s a suspicious lack of Biscuits Brown AB.
They're great. Take up no space and weigh next to nothing. Boil in the bag, have a brew, bin the packaging. Done. Pot noodles too, but they are larger to carry, but weigh less.
Wayfarer meals for our two. Think we also had some from Decathlon that were OK. They weighed more, but tasted better than some of the other options.
Pot Noodles were on our banned list. Apparently pouring boiling water into a (bulky to pack) pot was not allowed, but transferring Supernoodles from a packet to a pan of boiling water is OK.
The bulk aspect aside, ours took packets of Supernoodles as an extra source of warm quick calories.
Fair play to all the kids that do it, it's a commitment. Was surprised my daughter kept it going, just got her residential to do in the summer and that should be her Gold completed.
Wayfairer chicken tikka and a naan bread, packet of custard and a McVities packet cake for pudding ftw.
I kind of get the pot noodle issue. If the pot is cracked from bad packing and not noticed it could be an issue.
...always a bit of a surprise at what the kids bring for food -
A good mate is an outdoor ed lecturer at the local university. He tells many good stories of expeditions with young adults. One of my favourites is the young man that came up with the idea of bringing a box of ice creams with him to surprise his mates at lunch.
I know there's some crossover between scouts/guides and the Duke of Edinburgh awards. The large scout event I'm involved in (in Cirencester) is hosting a (gold) residential experience in June for a week, with only a small cost to cover food and some team building activities. Details are here: https://s-e.org.uk/residential
Fair play to all the kids that do it, it's a commitment. Was surprised my daughter kept it going, just got her residential to do in the summer and that should be her Gold completed.
No. 1 is very goal-orientated. She’s only got her exped to do to get Bronze done and I’ve no doubt that unless this is a fiery disaster she’ll carry on. School have been quite hard nosed and said that if they’ve not done ⅔ of the rest of it, they’re not going on the exped, and some of her mates have missed the cut.
@cleetonator My brother did his Bronze through the scouts, something approaching 30y ago. I’d just assumed most scouts/venture scouts troops did DofE?
I know there's some crossover between scouts/guides and the Duke of Edinburgh awards. The large scout event I'm involved in (in Cirencester) is hosting a (gold) residential experience in June for a week, with only a small cost to cover food and some team building activities. Details are here: https://s-e.org.uk/residential
That's great, the residential can be tricky. Daughter is doing hers with the National Scout & Guide Symphony Orchestra in the summer, quite a few use it to tick off the residential. Think her brother did.
My brother did his Bronze through the scouts, something approaching 30y ago. I’d just assumed most scouts/venture scouts troops did DofE?
Depends on the group/district. Our Scouts don't, son did his through school/college. Though a lot of what he did for DoE counted towards his Scouting awards as well.
Daughter is doing hers through Guides, but it's organised at county level.
Actual pot noodles are a bit rubbish as they take up a large volume and only contain about 240 calories so they aren’t a good choice to replace the energy used hiking all day with a backpack. My lad took some of the pouches you find in the supermarket that don’t require refrigeration and reheated them. Plenty of homemade flapjack and the like kept him going through the day.
It is a fantastic thing, I'm only a helper on the expeditions (2 bronze and 2 silver this year) but it is brilliant seeing the kids in the outdoors and changing to very sociable people who are very much helping their group.
They all start a bit nervous but by the end they are all out their shells and being brilliant humans - in need of a good wash!
I might try some wayfarer packs and see how that is. As a helper my supplies are in my car at campsite, so I can spoil myself but I feel guilty with anything fancier than some pasta and a stir in sauce, so will try a pack and see how that is.
Firepot are on sale at Alpkit atm. Best dehydrated meals imho.
Ex DoE leader here, married to County DoE coordinator. Pot Noodles or any other stuff that merely requires rehydrating does not count as a cooked meal in my book. Likewise canned 'full breakfast with beans' type meals. This was in a school with a very deprived catchment indeed. I used to require that more than one pan be necessarry and that there be more than one course to a meal. I also banned eggs from food brought by participants and made sure that all cookware was spotless after use. I provided all utensils, cleaning products etc but the participants were entirely responsible for their meals.
I always had a small Tuppaware type container with sachets of salt, pepper etc as well as tea bags, sugar, coffee and so on to 'enhance' any meal time. Mrs A is out expeditioning as we speak, in deepest darkest Llanelli (in one of the most deprived wards in the country) and the students are all mucking in together and cooking up a storm- not a pouched 'meal' in sight. And this is how it should be, in my book at least.
Ex DoE leader here, married to County DoE coordinator. Pot Noodles or any other stuff that merely requires rehydrating does not count as a cooked meal in my book. Likewise canned 'full breakfast with beans' type meals. This was in a school with a very deprived catchment indeed. I used to require that more than one pan be necessarry and that there be more than one course to a meal. I also banned eggs from food brought by participants and made sure that all cookware was spotless after use.
Hmmm.
DofE and LO manager here and.......it's people like you with your old fashioned values that gave DofE a bad name. I'm so glad they got rid of the 20 conditions to put you all properly back in your box.
DofE expeditions should be about introducing young people to the great outdoors and giving them an insight into what they could voluntarily do for fun in later life. Look at what competent adults do when they go out - plenty (most?) will use dehydrated or warm in a bag meals so 'banning' young people doing the same is daft. The worst IMO are the assessors that get a right benny on with kids for using dehydrated products then go back to their tent and do exactly what they just bollocked the kids for (but maybe justify it because they are eating a 'posh' version). Yes, kids left unchecked will make poor choices but most of that is about carrying too much weight per calorie or just not enough calories. But let's face it even on a gold exped the 'healthiness' and nutritional makeup of the days food is not that relevant. They are not going to get scurvy. And noone's life is enriched by scrubbing a trangia because some old duffer has insisted they HAVE to cook directly in the pan.
Despite being so heavily involved in the award (I gave a lecture at a recent managers conference kind of involved) I do have some misgivings. Most of those are around some of the adults involved, especially those that are wedded to old 'rules' that were often never rules in the first place. The number of adults prepared to volunteer to help the award has significantly dwindled and centres are being forced to pay freelancers has hugely increased which is making the award so much more expensive. This is a real problem. However, the professionalism and 'modernity' of the adults the young people are in contact with is changing which I hope in time will translate to more kids not enduring the experience but enjoying it as it's not been turned into a small minded rules fest by an amateur who doesn't really know what they are talking about and they then go on to do more expeditioning for fun in adulthood.
Not sure I agree with the wording, but I've seen DofE evolve and become less "militaristic" over recent years, it couldn't stay stuck in the past. Scouting has had to go the same way.
The cost is still a barrier to.those kids who would benefit the most. I notice they are running a big fundraiser at the moment.
Cheers mate, aren't you a delight! I say a meal should be made, not a thing heated up. Come over one day and I'll show you how it's done.
The number of adults prepared to volunteer to help the award has significantly dwindled and centres are being forced to pay freelancers has hugely increased which is making the award so much more expensive. This is a real problem.
Declining numbers of adults able to volunteer is a problem for everything and there’s a societal conversation to be had as to how this can be addressed.
Cheers mate, aren't you a delight! I say a meal should be made, not a thing heated up. Come over one day and I'll show you how it's done.
You really think I can't?
IF a group of participants want to get their calories like that I'd be more than supportive. But to insist they do.....because it's your version of what they should do that exists only in your head or your poor interpretation of 'the rules"...makes you part of the problem.
My lad and his group of four or whatever when doing both bronze and silver, took pasta, tomato sauce, onions I think, some herbs and cheese and devided it between them to carry on the walks. Also took sausages and baps for breakfast.
And loads of sweets/chocolate obvs!!
Unfortunately gold isn't going to happen, and daughters school only does bronze now, so don't know if she'll do silver...
@ads678 Our local council (Rochdale) seems to offer it through the youth service - don’t know if yours does?
Why is that? It's is a bit nuts!
What's the difference between super noodles and pot noodles other than the latter comes in a pot that can be used afterwards so you don't need a bowl/pot.
We deliver* our racing yacht (literally zero cooking facilities other than a jet boil) and pot noodles are the go to for most trips.
* Moving it with a shorthanded crew between racing events
the doe website does specifically advise against pot noodles for the space and vulnerability of the container issues. https://www.dofe.org/shop/eating-on-your-expedition/ But it’s not an objection to rehydrating food (they specifically recommend dried food!).
assessors creating rules to make it harder for “their” participants is just daft - if the scheme rules don’t require it are you actually improving their experience or just making it harder for your own ego.
one thing my children’s supervisors liked to encourage was that it was a group meal rather than half a dozen individual meals. That was about efficient use of time and fuel, but also about making sure the assessor saw the group working cooperatively together.
having done DOE as a working class kid over 30 years ago with essentially no cost of entry except a pair of walking boots and food (everything else could be borrowed), I’m not sure I buy the “more accessible now” argument - my distinctly middle class kids had plenty of cost. The biggest challenge now was finding skills that could be done on a “weekly” basis for the required duration and meaningful volunteering opportunities that would welcome under 16/18s.
What’s the deal with Trangias (as opposed to anything more modern), by the way?
Trangia work, are robust, are trivial to check fuel level - so easy and efficient for the group to go with a full bottle each trip, include the pans. Fairly space efficient for a group. but you can use gas etc too.
My daughter took those vac packed fresh pasta tortellini and a tub of pasta sauce. Was quick and easy to cook and light packaging. She took a bunch of instant mocha and hot chocolate sachets, which made her popular in the morning! And a box of baby cucumbers was a surprise snack hit - I think the savoury change was welcome. Laughing Cow cheese triangles made for easy sandwiches squashed into bread rolls on the go - easy to make and not too dry.
I did all 3 awards about 40 years ago and all we took was Vesta boil in the bag curries. I don't remember anyone telling us what we could take (probably before pot noodles had been invented).
She took a bunch of instant mocha and hot chocolate sachets, which made her popular in the morning!
That thought had already crossed my mind.
Teacher running the show has told them to do wraps rather than sandwiches for lunch in the go, presumably as they’re less likely to go soggy.
Wraps make a lot of sense - in a very full bag a roll or sandwich will just get squashed anyway. Wraps come pre squashed and once made contain the ooze well. As an assessor (and in the hills for fun) a couple of pack of 10 mini wraps slide in well vertically inside your bag next to your back.
A fan of couscous too - either those pre flavoured bags and pour the water straight in. Or use the bulk buy stuff. You can buy empty bags very similar to the sort used by Wayfarer or firepot etc use for not a lot online and fill them with whatever works for use.
My normal challenge for groups I work with out for 3 or 4 days is to use the Wayfairer/firepot bag from the first night as a rubbish bag for the whole trip and get everything in just the one.Another reason I'm not keen on 'real cooking' in a trangia is it so often leads to local pollution at campsites washing up, leaving bits of rice etc behind.
My lad did bronze last summer and took microwave rice (heat it in the pan with a splash of water) and flavoured tuna, sandwiches for lunch and long life pain au chocolate for breakfast plus lots of snacks. School were fine with that. Something kids will eat is important. If they don't like an unfamiliar dehydrated meal or go wrong cooking something complicated then they will be hungry and miserable.
For whatever reason the school got them to cook individually rather than together. They supplied gas stoves and although the kids carried the pans and stoves the teachers took the gas to the campsite in their car. Probably something to do with risk assessment randomness.
Cake and custard always gets my vote when backpacking.
stuff that merely requires rehydrating does not count as a cooked meal in my book. ...... I used to require that more than one pan be necessarry and that there be more than one course to a meal. I also banned eggs from food brought by participants .......... this is how it should be, in my book at least.
I initially thought that you were trolling, but unfortunately you seem to be serious. Adding extra rules of your own just makes it harder for the kids. Our DoE leader is a 70 year old ex-para, but he moves with the times and takes a far more sensible approach.
I've tried to convince a few friends and other parents at the school to try and get involved. I don't get paid for it and I take time off work as a holiday. I'm certain a lot of the kids get a huge amount from it and it should be encouraged massively.
I suspect holiday time is precious for people and spending that time with a group of kids isn't appealing (which is perfectly understandable), so it does make it a challenge to get enough people to assist.
The school don't mind what the kids bring to eat - as long as they eat. They have said pot noodles aren't as good as other stuff as the pots can get cracked and they take up a chunk of space, but no-one has been failed for bringing them.
My daughter did her level 1 cycle coaching qualification and helped with coaching as part of her bronze award. She did her silver last year, but missed the expedition due to the school trip, so she has to do the expedition this year - except she isn't wanting to as last year was a disaster for her (I did suggest teaming up with 2 girls and their boyfriends would be problematic - and it was, 1 couple broke up and made up 4 times on the 3 days and the other couple just argued, so my daughter was left to sort the map reading, start the tent pitching and the cooking and actually as mediator...she did really well, but reckons this one will be the same and doesn't want to do it. 3 days away from school and her mum, in the hills (which she enjoys) and she gets a silver award...driving me nuts that she doesn't want to do it! Hahaha
driving me nuts that she doesn't want to do it!
No accounting for the teenage brain. No. 1 got a place on a school trip to Iceland that looked awesome and then decided the day before the deposit was in that she didn’t want to go after all.
I'm not a DoE assessor, but I'm supervising a Scouts Expedition in a couple of weeks, which is comparable in effort to Bronze. Can't say I'm a big fan of the Trangia. Big, rattly, and I'm not keen on them carrying bottles of liquid accelerant. Our kids have requested Jet Boilers, which suits me. We did a session the other week with various types of stove and asked them to take their pick.
Menu-wise it'll all be dried/boil in the bag type stuff, as they have to make their meal out in the middle of nowhere.
I always stuff my pockets with Toffee Crisps and Tangfastics. If they start to lag or look a bit hacked off I'll appear, like the shop keeper from Mr Ben, and hand them out.
I was surprised when our daughter said she couldn't be bothered with gold. I assumed that the skill and volunteering were the hassle... but not its the expedition - not the idea of doing the 4 day trip, but rather "the idea of having to spend 4 days continuously with those people, [xxxx] will be moaning the whole time, [yyyy] will still be getting dressed 20 minutes after we are supposed to have left, [zzzz] will boss everyone round" - she happily goes to the Scout/Explorer group with them every week, is happy to go on a weekend long scout camp but to spend two 4 day periods with them is too much. She doesn't need it for any uni application stuff where as "xxxx" and "yyyy" do (or believe they do*) so are doing it "because they have to" not because they want to.driving me nuts that she doesn't want to do it!
No accounting for the teenage brain. No. 1 got a place on a school trip to Iceland that looked awesome and then decided the day before the deposit was in that she didn’t want to go after all.
*I doubt actually having a gold DoE is actually the deciding factor, and if they put the same time into something they genuinely loved doing they might actually be more "attractive" candidates.
I've seen DofE evolve and become less "militaristic" over recent years, it couldn't stay stuck in the past. Scouting has had to go the same way.
Scouting needs to go further - far too much pseudo-military bollocks in there (the uniforms, the saluting, the oaths to King and Country etc etc) for my liking, but that's for another, in fact the other, thread
/\ that's what Cadets are for! - speaking of which - for those in cadets, whos kids come back from weekends away with what is seemingly millions of unused MRE's - we should pool them and give them away to dofe's.. I quite literlaly filled a black bin liner with them last week.
If any kids (parents?) are struggling to find weekly volunteering opportunities may I suggest finding a local parkrun or Junior parkrun?
I'm in charge at our local one and we welcome DofE kids.
There's lot of variety in the volunteering, you can gain extra responsibility and it's generally a friendly place to be.
Scouts and Guides will take volunteer young leaders from 14 (obviously not volunteering with peer groups!) We give priority to our own members first, but DofE volunteers are handy for an extra pair of eyes and hands.
for those in cadets, whos kids come back from weekends away with what is seemingly millions of unused MRE's - we should pool them and give them away to dofe's.. I quite literlaly filled a black bin liner with them last week.
Good idea! Whilst they're not too expensive they aren't exactly cheap either. I've got a collection of beige sachets of energy drinks and tea bags.
Scouts and Guides will take volunteer young leaders from 14 (obviously not volunteering with peer groups!) We give priority to our own members first, but DofE volunteers are handy for an extra pair of eyes and hands.
This is what No. 1 has done - she's aged out of Guides, but there's no local Rangers (partly due to COVID, partly due to volunteering issues mentioned above) so she's carried on as a young leader, and used this as her volunteering. This is slightly complicated by the presence of her sister as one of the guides.
TBF her uncle did similar when he was in Ventures and doing his Bronze.
My kids both did their volunteering at Cub packs. The lad, doing his Gold, has been there for 3 years now!
What’s the stove of choice for these kind of trips? When he did Bronze he reported that the stove was provided but by the time he got to use it (shared with the other groups on the same campsite) all the fuel was practically gone, fortunately he was reheating rather than cooking from scratch but keen to avoid the same issue this time by providing our own…
What's he planning on cooking?
What’s the stove of choice for these kind of trips? When he did Bronze he reported that the stove was provided but by the time he got to use it (shared with the other groups on the same campsite) all the fuel was practically gone, fortunately he was reheating rather than cooking from scratch but keen to avoid the same issue this time by providing our own…
What would make more sense is to provide with spare fuel for whatever they use! That’s kind of the whole point of the progression through the levels and practice expeditions - so they work these things out FOR THEMSELVES. DoE should provide amazing fodder for university / job interviews when someone asks about a time you reflected on an experience and made changes, or when things hadn’t worked as well as a team as you hoped etc.
Was about to say... He should bung a couple of cannisters in his bag. One to use and one to rent to the highest bidder.
Good point re spare fuel. I’m not sure what type it was. He says it was a liquid fuel.
My girls did the Bronze last year and they took portioned bags of pasta, some of those individual pots of tuna and some portioned bags of grated parmesan (doubtless a bit heavier than dehydrated food, but still pretty lightweight and packed down small.
Tidied up my son's MRE / Wayfarer that he had left on display on the dining room floor and noticed that the Wayfarer is DoE Approved. So that puts that one to bed. 
I used Vesta meals for my expeditions, but that was 30-odd years ago!
Eldest is mid-way through his bronze at the mo, they did a meal as a group on the test expedition and went with hotdogs so they just needed to boil them. Their biggest complaint was there wasn't enough so maybe they'll listen to us next time and take something more substantial on the proper one.
They still use Trangia's though so not a lot's changed in 30yrs.
Practice walk done yesterday, and managed not to get hopelessly lost so all good so far…
Thought i would weigh in on food etc after reading this
Stoves: trangias just work and are versatile. All stoves have compromises.
My menu for trekking:
Pasta and a stir in sauce for dinner.
Bread for the first days lunch. Oatcakes thereafter. Eaten with cheese and olives. Porage pots fot breakfast
Sweets chocolate nuts and dried fruit for snacks
Stove wise, speak to the award coordinator if you’re thinking of taking your own. Our association strongly advised against meths stoves after a few incidents of people trying to refill lit stoves. We replaced the burners in our trangias with gas conversions, and the resulting stoves were excellent if a bit heavy. We’d generally only get requests for alternative stoves at silver or hold by which point it was easier to check they new how to use their stove safely.
We’d always take spare fuel with us but if a group ran out we’d encourage them to ask the other groups if they had spare. If it happened on the practice I’d also be asking the group to think if they could manage their fuel use a bit better next time as well. It’s a good opportunity for a bit of teamwork but there’d always be a safety net if needed.
So the MHW Lumina arrived. It appears to be well made but extremely difficult to get it into the stuff sack despite putting the head end in first. Literally takes 2-3 mins of prodding down bit by bit with quite some effort. Once in, the compression straps hold it, but the draw string closure is no way going to do up. A bit rubbish really as a bigger bag is clearly necessary.
Literally just come back from 3 days Silver practise tabbing round Suffolk as a volunteer, my daughters school is a small rural Norfolk school, so bar one teacher (who is leaving in May due to redundancy and cut backs) it is run solely by parents and volunteers giving up time, a collection of 5 dads, a couple of us ex-military, a couple who got into it when their kids did it via the school and were good enough to qualify as assessors and carry on even when there kids had left and one that was new this trip.
We are now facing either having to outsource to a DofE company once the teacher goes, as no other wants to get involved, or the couple of us that have experience/ some MLTB quals but not DofE assessor status, go on and qualify out of our pockets and we set up ourselves as the schools DofE provider without any teacher input, which would be sad, we only have contact with the teenagers at weekends away, and we volunteer our time a couple of evenings to to teach navigation etc.. but don't have the experience and knowledge of them day to day (and all their foibles) that the teaching staff have.
Any other ideas?
On the Pot Noodle debate, they do make a nice bang and a real mess when they are mid-rucksack and they keep on stuffing stuff in!
Always amazed how some will bring 3 tins for each of the 3 days, then wonder why their kit weighs a ton, but the satisfying bit has always been seeing those that clearly find it difficult (and often want to cry off after day 1) carrying on, and coming back from Bronze to Silver.
Was discussing DofE with the kids yesterday, eldest has his Gold and his Scout group do the District DofE stuff, and daughter just has the Gold residential to do to finish.
Cost seems the biggest shocker. Eldests Scouts charge £30 for a Bronze or Silver expedition, £50 for Gold plus transport, as they usually head for Scotland.
They have a few private schools nearby charging £1000 for Gold - and also a concern that schools are signing off volunteering and physical challenges willy nilly.
Was going to ask what costs people are facing for d of e.
Ours was 300quid, for that you seem to get two practice 'expeditions', which are just half day walks in the hills with some kind of instructor teaching them how to read a map and navigate, how to cook/use stove, obviously it also includes the main expedition. It also includes the provision of a tent, stove, cooking gear for the trip itself.
We have had to buy the rucksack, clothes, sleeping bag, sleeping mat etc
We paid £64 each for the Silver practise and the assessment (practise in Suffolk and assessment to be in the Peaks) as above, they can borrow stove, tent from the school, but have to supply the rest, although we also have a small pool of personal kit we lend to teenagers that are without, and have managed to rustle up some boots, rucksacks etc for those that needed them. I like to think that we try and make it inclusive as possible.
They have a few private schools nearby charging £1000 for Gold - and also a concern that schools are signing off volunteering and physical challenges willy nilly.
I think No. 1’s school is charging £190 and seems to be taking it seriously.
Her cousin (church school) somehow managed to get playing for a sports club as his sport, training at the same club as his skill and volunteering there signed off, but it’s up to the assessor at the end of the day, isn’t it?
My lad finished his Gold Assessment hike about half an hour ago. 60km over 3 days on the hills north of Clitheroe. Strava would suggest that they set off early and were done by 2ish each day to avoid the afternoon sun.
Really proud of him!
This was done through college with outside assistance. Fee was £85 per expedition plus an admin charge that I paid when he enrolled. Which isn’t that much more than we paid for his Silver done through Explorers and supervised by volunteers.
His physical was covered by Karate, skills by guitar lessons and volunteering at a Cub Pack, but he also does service days at the district Scout camp.
My eldest ended up playing table tennis as his physical, simply because there were no other sports clubs locally on a night he was free.
Came in handy when he got to uni!
I spotted a couple of small groups of youngsters out walking with a lot of kit at the weekend...figured it was DofE stuff.
Great to see and a brilliant experience for them, hopefully it remains with them throughout their years.
Great to hear of expeditions being completed.
Feedback from his assessor... No problem with the MRE, but he did get pulled for having the tent lashed to the outside of his bag. Which is odd, because the tent is waterproof.
I spotted a couple of small groups of youngsters out walking with a lot of kit at the weekend...figured it was DofE stuff.
Great to see and a brilliant experience for them, hopefully it remains with them throughout their years.
Great to hear of expeditions being completed.
I was up round Castleton/Monsal/Calver area on Saturday, distinctive clumps of young folk under enormous rucksack looking like it was very much type 2 fun.
Credit to all who get through it.
but he did get pulled for having the tent lashed to the outside of his bag. Which is odd, because the tent is waterproof.
I don’t think there’s a hard and fast rule about that - but:
- does it mean too much unnecessary stuff in the bag?
- not sharing the load fairly in the whole group?
- the weight is not optimally placed in the bag (they put a lot of emphasis on this - but then 14 yr olds have a lot less to counterbalance them than me!)
- the tent is more vulnerable not just to rain, but branches tearing it, getting dropped etc.
so I can see why it might be discouraged.
Fair enough. No explanation was given to him though.
Anyway, his feet are a mess. Found out this morning that he'd "borrowed" my hiking socks and worn them for 3 days, despite them being 2 sizes too small.
Kids eh?... Smart enough to try for Oxford, but daft enough not to pack socks that fit.
Other than that he was fine. It got a bit competitive with one of the other groups. My lad's team were fastest on day 1, the others were fastest on day two, and it was a dead heat on day 3. Assessor said they were 15 minutes away from the record time.
Also, the 4G "sweet spot" at Waddecar campsite is in the loo block on the top field apparently.
My lad finished his Gold Assessment hike about half an hour ago. 60km over 3 days on the hills north of Clitheroe. Strava would suggest that they set off early and were done by 2ish each day to avoid the afternoon sun.
Well done H_T_S jnr.....
Of course a gold assessed expedition is 4 days, not 3 and requires 8 hours of planned activity each day. Most teams used all 8 hours journeying, but your goal can take up some of that time too (I've worked with groups that have done fishing as their goal and planned a route that went between lochs, and another that did painting). Though we measure by time not distance these days, the normal for a gold assessed exped is 85-100km give or take unless the route is particularly challenging or the group have specific needs. I'm guessing the 3 was a typo (unless it was silver, not gold - which is three 7hr days) and they did some of their goal in camp maybe......(or set off at 6am).
3 days. Some teams took 8 hours, but his and the other one with Explorers in it moved at speed.
This was the "qualifier". Kids didn't really know each other. Staff didn't know the kids.
4 days up in the Yorkshire Dales in July for the real deal.
Fair enough. No explanation was given to him though.just because there might be good reasons doesn't mean the person dictating the rules knows the good reasons!
interesting - have they given up trying to enforce no phones except emergencies?Also, the 4G "sweet spot" at Waddecar campsite is in the loo block on the top field apparently.
convert - its never been quite clear to me what happens if you planned 8 hours but found conditions better than hoped and did it in 7!
This was the "qualifier". Kids didn't really know each other. Staff didn't know the kids.
4 days up in the Yorkshire Dales in July for the real deal.
Ah - it's a terminology thing.
Your first post said his 'gold assessment'.
What your lad has just done in DofE terminology is his "Practice Expedition" - though the group might use another term for...reasons. Maybe because it 'qualifies' you to take part in the real one. The real deal is called the 'Assessed Expedition' (hence my confusion from your first post). 'Practice' does have a ring of 'nice thing to do to get ready if you have the time' about it rather than something you must do. On a practice, length of days are not judged particularly and there is no goal (apart from learning how to do independently). I was also (though didn't mention, for fear of coming over too critical) a touch concerned about the 'competition' with another group. Makes sense now - in the real deal they won't be camping or journeying close enough to have a competition with another group and the route should be their own so the idea of a record to beat won't be thing.
Also - there are no assessors on a practise expedition - just trainer/supervisors (though, if fully indoctrinated in DofE hyperbole, they will be both - but they were working as trainer supervisors in this situation). So the person talking about the tent on the outside of the bag was handing out advise not passing judgement. On the assessed exped, they will have a supervisor who'll be tracking them or in the vicinity remotely keeping an eye, and a separate assessor who has not been involved in their training that will meet them formally from time to time to assess their expedition (and hopefully hand out sweets, have a laugh and a joke, be encouraging and generally be nice and supportive - because that's what it's all about).
Anyway, good luck to him - hopefully they have learnt enough about themselves to plan a fun but challenging route in the Dales. The OS maps app and eDofE interaction is really good now, so the nause of route card generation is nothing like as painful as it used to be. Also, if he shared his OS log in details with his dad - his dad would get free maps until he leaves the scheme.....just sayin!
convert - its never been quite clear to me what happens if you planned 8 hours but found conditions better than hoped and did it in 7!
Yes, it's a grey area. Ultimately it's not the young people's fault - they proposed the route and their leader approved it. I've seen plenty of groups 'game' the system by slowing down the proposed walking speed and added suspiciously long breaks until Naismith's (it's all built in now) pops out the magic 8hrs on the route card. I've assessed groups in the past and visited them on night 1 or 2 and it's been obvious their route was way too easy for them. I've then challenged them to come up with a plan to either extend the next day's journeying or do something extra with their goal to make it more meaningful. Same the other way around - I've assessed groups that were shattered and clearly overstretched and discussed with the supervisor and the group how they could make the rest of the planned route more appropriate.
Worst I've seen was a group paddling on the River Wye that was swollen and running so fast that if they'd done the route on a lilo and not dipped a paddle in the water they'd still have been in camp early! In that case we put in place some impromptu walking from the campsites to explore the area and make the days more involving. Lengthening the days by paddling upstream would have been a cruel and unusual (and probably impossible!) punishment!
It wasn’t officially a competition, he happens to know a few of the kids from the other group and I can see how they would compare routes / strava data.
What you said was the assessor (sic- supervisor) said they were 15mins away from the record time. That implies they were following a well worn route given to them - which is totally fine for a practice. For the real deal, they should be planning their own route and for your lad's group it sounds like they are fit and strong and should be encouraged to challenge themselves to do something a bit punchy. But route planning something unique..........that's easier said than done in some locations where there is only one obvious choice. It's also possible to do a known route (like say paddling the Great Glen) so route choice is not really a thing then either.
What’s the guidance on stove use at the moment, given the fire risk?
Peak District National Park website suggests “no open fire or flame” and I’ve seen signs which state this includes stoves. Obviously if the campsite allows it, that’s one thing, but what are the kids being told about using stoves in the wild?