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Even here, in the rainy foothills of the Peak District, it's not really rained for months and months and the reservoirs are, basically, empty. This is a situation that I think is pretty much mirrored across the country, but there's hardly a mention of it in the news.
I remember back in the day, when there were water shortages it was all over the telly, with tips and please for saving water, I even remember getting a "I've had a dirty weekend saving water" sticker.
Is the situation not as bad as I think it is? And if it is as bad as I think it is, why is nothing being said, is it because it's too low down the list of catastrophes in the current economic and political omnishambles?
its because we don't have a government
And here's the May data
As you can see, rainfall has been "more than adequate" in some places 😂
Yeh no drought here in bonnie, currently raining, Scotland
Drought has barely been mentioned in Derbyshire. Barely a muttering of hose-pipe bans even in the summer.
There's lots of underground storage we don't see. Big underground one in Ambergate has been upgraded in recent years...
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There’s lots of underground storage we don’t see.
But that must be filled from the same rainfall that's currently not filling the reservoirs, no?
Filled in winter, emptied in summer?
Carsington Water is like that - there's very little natural supply. Nearly all the water in there is pumped from the River Derwent at Whatstandwell.
They must know what they're doing as drought has hardly been mention round here.
Because the real issue is leakage in the system rather than lack of water going in
More is not being made of it because the News is reporting stuff it feels will raise its ratings.
Queuing for the Queen
Ukraine
Politics
Gas prices
We are all going to freeze this winter
Mortgage rate rises
There is a limited amount of crap the News channels can churn out till ratings drop is a possible answer.
We seem to have forgotten all the other stories that were making headline previous to the current ones, in most cases those issue have not been resolved. But the news cycle has moved on.
Perhaps a drought is too low on the shocking News needed to raise ratings list its not being discussed.
Or perhaps all the leaks have actually filled in all the underground reserves 🙂
Yep still a hosepipe ban across the south & south east coast (IoW - Hants - Sussex - Kent)
Filled in winter, emptied in summer?
would expect it to be something like this.
empty resevoirs in june is cause for concern. empty in october means the system works as designed (although a bit close to the limit, might be a kick in the arse for next year)
The point is Carsington is emptier than I can remember in 20 years living up here
Yes, it's filled from tne Derwent, but that I running low at the moment, and if it rains heavily/flows too fast they can't pump tne water as the silt blocks the system.
For a lot of reasons, we need a winter of constant steady rain, blown in on warm steady winds
Cumbria is still as wet as ever. Currently wetter than an otters pocket.
https://keswickreminder.co.uk/2022/10/03/borrowdale-valley-farmers-lose-58-sheep-in-flash-floods/
It's on the local BBC news pages today for Devon and Cornwall regarding the 15-20% reservoir levels and hose pipe ban still being in place.
Easy for people to forget the drought as it feels like it's rained to some degree most days since the ban was announced, in my part of Cornwall at least, and people have short memories!
empty resevoirs in june is cause for concern. empty in october means the system works as designed
They were blimmin' low in June, they're now basically muddy puddles
As above - its not the topic of the day.
There is definitely a lot being made of it within the industry. Yes levels are low, but there is a real concern that without a lot of rain across the winter this will be a significant issue next year. Soil moisure deficit is very low (certainly in my company's area) so any rainfall is either soaked up quickly, or if heavy rain events it runs off and causes floods rather than finding its way back to aquifers and rivers to take it from.
Also - the public and news outlets quickly forget when it has rained for a couple of days and the grass goes green again.
Because the real issue is leakage in the system rather than lack of water going in
Only if you believe the red tops etc. THe real issue is that it hasn't rained enough. Leakage is in many places less than in the past. The difficulty with all the water company news stories is that they are over simplified. Companies are tied by the regulator in what they can spend on what items. If more is spent on leakage for example, this is because the regulator approved the company's business proposal for this (with customer support) and bills then have some extra on to pay for this.
This is why you may hear about 'economic levels of leakage' - from a purely financial point of view, customers have to pay to reduce leaks. Beyond this point it costs more to fix than the cost of the water saved. Of course this changes when resources become scarce and get reported about. Some companies operate at a level of leakage beyond this, because it is (rightly) important to their customers who are prepared to pay to fund it.
Cumbria is still as wet as ever. Currently wetter than an otters pocket.
As reported in August, Cumbria is one of 2 counties in England not in drought - Lancs was the other.
Yeh no drought here in bonnie, currently raining, Scotland
From a report in August:
Scotland’s weather has a reputation for being wet, damp, drookit. While the south of England faces a summer hosepipe ban, Scottish households rarely have this worry.
But 2022 has brought a series of water scarcity warnings from the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, suggesting a wake-up call may be needed north of the border. SEPA’s latest report found the situation was becoming increasingly worrying in the east of Scotland.
While there are no plans for water restrictions for Scottish homes, it is not just about keeping gardens growing. SEPA says this is a result of climate change, and it could have a serious impact on agriculture and businesses in Scotland.
Just because it's not happening to you doesn't mean it's not happening.
Borrowdale valley farmers lose 58 sheep in flash floods
Droughts cause flooding too. Dry ground cant absorb water as effectively as wet/moist ground, so youll see an increase in flooding after a dry spell as the rain fall levels return to normal.
so could be that.
Yep still a hosepipe ban across the south & south east coast (IoW – Hants – Sussex – Kent)
Not quite true, there is no hosepipe ban in Portsmouth and the surrounding areas plus the rest of East Hampshire and there hasnt been one all summer
https://www.southernwater.co.uk/drought-restrictions
Leaks leaks leaks
Water running through about 8 back gardens on our road when everywhere is bone dry. Yorkshire water say it’s ground water. Really?
Took my cousin 30 years to get Severn Trent to fix the leak on his farm. When they did they stopped having the patch of ice on the road outside every winter…
The water companies don’t seem interested
It's rained a couple of times, so everyone assumes the problem is over, and a lot of people are wondering how they are going to stay warm and feed their families this winter.
Have to say I had been wondering whether the yorkshire water web page was out of date saying the hosepipe ban is still in place, given the amount of rain recently. That was, until I rode around Ladybower and realised quite how empty it still is. Apparently they are expecting it to take most of winter to fill everything back up even with the continuing bans.
It’s rained a couple of times, so everyone assumes the problem is over, and a lot of people are wondering how they are going to stay warm and feed their families this winter.
News is primarily entertainment, even if it's gawping at disasters.
It's not news if it's the same drought and hosepipe ban thats been ongoing for months. It'd be boring and a waste of airtime if that was the headline every night.
But yep, still a hosepipe ban here in Berkshire too. Less obvious as our reservoirs are all underground aquifers not flooded valleys.
Because it's been engineered.
Yeah no drought here in Bonnie, currently raining, Scotland
And it's still raining 😆
While there are no plans for water restrictions for Scottish homes, it is not just about keeping gardens growing. SEPA says this is a result of climate change, and it could have a serious impact on agriculture and businesses in Scotland.
There is a bit of a kneejerk reaction to blame climate change for everything. As far as I am aware rainfall is trending up in Scotland not down. There have always been large variations from year to year. Weather. Average annual rainfall up 100mm in the last 40 years. Roughly 7 more rain days per year.
https://www.adaptationscotland.org.uk/why-adapt/climate-trends-and-projections
Son has to do some homework on the environment so took the opportunity to get some exercise in him.
Sat morning got up early and went for a ride around ladybower res.
The lower res is the lowest I've ever seen it with barely a trickle running through.
Upper res had a torrent of water coming in from the underground river/ stream thingy nr the day, the upper res was higher than I've seen previous as you couldn't see the building in the middle bur could still see the old bridge footings.
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It was properly monsoon-like in Westbury on Friday, the noise of the rain on our workshop roofs made it difficult to talk over. Made me very very glad I chose to change my job so I’m no longer working outdoors for twelve hours a day!
I can hear the rain hammering down right now here at home in Chippenham, which hopefully will help refill the aquifers in this area - there were no immediate threats of hose-pipe bans in this part of the West.
Rising population is part of this, along with climate change across Europe (and the world).
In the UK (specifically) climate change will cause heavier rain with more dry spells during our summers
Severn-Trent and Yorkshire Water are proposing increased reservoir capacity in the Upper Derwent Valley, but it won't be finished for at least 10 years
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/about-us/press-office/news/weather-and-climate/2021/drier-european-summers-projected-under-human-induced-climate-change
https://www.yorkshirewater.com/media/bcgco3hv/upper-derwent-valley-reservoir-expansion-business-case-udvre-final-8_12_21.pdf
The top chap from the environment agency was on Newscast a few weeks ago. He said that it was neither rocket science or expensive to sort out.
Some new reservoirs, a bit of desalination and to fix some leaks. Cost per household approximately £5 per year.
The figure for leakage was about 20%
It left me wondering why they haven't just got on with it..
He also said he had just found out that there is a desalination plant somewhere but it's not being used.
It left me wondering why they haven’t just got on with it..
Regulators - OFWAT
Everything is tied up with them. If there’s a proposal to increase bills, they have to approve the business plan. Politically this has not been acceptable in the past. Combined with 5year funding cycles it has been very difficult to get approval for long term investments like reservoirs.
Hopefully this will be changing in the next cycle.
The regulation and current politics droves what happens - investment is effectively still government controlled, but with the option for the government to criticise when they choose.
He also said he had just found out that there is a desalination plant somewhere but it’s not being used.
Probably the shear energy cost of running them at the moment?
It's probably a good thing to have a bit of resilience in an emergency if we really did run out of water, but it's not a great thing to be running normally.
Slight issue that gets conveniently ignored is the fact that in the UK there have been no reservoirs built since Carsington about 30 years ago. Yup, 30 years ago...Thats its, thats the last one. All thats been done since are small service reservoirs, not the much larger and necessary strategic supply reservoirs.
Its much easier to just complain about fixing leaks in the pipes (yes, this is important but not a silver bullet) while ignoring the fact that the population has actually grown (10m higher since Carsington was built) and we just perhaps might need larger supply of water but hey ho, Nimbys gotta Nimb.
And yes, I know I'm making a bit of a general over-simplification here.
Because it’s been engineered.
This should be good. Wheres all the water gone then?
while ignoring the fact that the population has actually grown (10m higher since Carsington was built)
Which is another reason for all kinds of environmental issues. Loss of habitat for wildlife, loss of arable land because of new housing, more emissions. (more people emit more)
Etc etc etc.
There is a bit of a kneejerk reaction to blame climate change for everything. As far as I am aware rainfall is trending up in Scotland not down. There have always been large variations from year to year. Weather. Average annual rainfall up 100mm in the last 40 years. Roughly 7 more rain days per year.
It's worth noting that an hour of torrential rain might help fill above-ground reservoirs but it's not ideal for refilling aquifers. For that you need months of steady rain.
There's a stream in the woods by my house which is only a few miles long. With the wetter October the woods are soggy and muddy in the proper autumn style, and when it's raining the run-off swells the stream. But when that's gone and it falls back to whatever spring feeds it at the top the flow is noticeably lower than it was before the summer.
Another thing I've noticed: There's a local trail across the top of a ridge that I have ridden for nearly 30 years off and on, it's soft dirt over limestone. Originally it was quite rideable except in wet weather - it was straight and there'd be some lines around the muddy hollows but it'd dry out and you could revert to the old line. Then in the 2000s there was a period where it was always wet in places, even in summer, and the lines around the muddy hollows became the main line. Then in 2018 it dried out completely and I could ride it straight through on dry ground for the first time in many many years. Strava PRs tumbled. However since then it dried out every summer again. And there are other signs that the ground water hasn't fully recovered - there's a hollow near the car park that was always a puddle in winter and a mud hole for most of the summer - too wet for anything to grow in it and too small for bog-land plants. In 2018 it dried out and became dust, and since then it hasn't been a puddle once. It's now full of grass.
Because it’s been engineered.
This should be good. Wheres all the water gone then?
Always keen to get the views of new posters....
The real dry spells tend to bake the ground very hard so when the first rains come a lot of the water is washed away and doesn't really do much soaking into the baked hard ground. We had a good dry spelling in Scotland over summer and sure enough, when the first rain arrived, the first 2 or 3 days we had some flooding - nothing major but enough to see large puddles of water due to the ground taking much longer to soak it in - the rains weren't particularly hard or heavy.
Scotland (at least the Central bit) seems to be back to the usual wet weather and the ground is now soaking it in, but the last week we have had some heavier showers, so hopefully water levels are going to rise a bit. I still think the longer dry spell is probably going to take longer to allow the water levels to return to their normal, but the potential for water levels dropping to a more worrying level in Scotland seems to have gone (for now).
What Muddyarseguy says.....we live in a wet country, yet save little water and like all areas of infrastructure we've had very little investment or development to cope with increasing demands. A pretty poor show really, but hardly a surprise.
Back to the original question - the Tories don't believe in telling people or companies what to do, they believe that market forces will solve all the world's ills and if that doesn't work, tax cuts for the rich will definitely work.
Every other country in Europe in encouraging people to use less energy this winter, except for UK PLC - which is just expecting to have rolling power cuts....
It’s worth noting that an hour of torrential rain might help fill above-ground reservoirs but it’s not ideal for refilling aquifers. For that you need months of steady rain.
We had a nearly normal rainfall for September across most for the country. But that's not enough to refill above ground sources after the very dry late spring and summer we've had this year. Long range weather forecasts are also increasingly showing the chances of a dry and cold period from mid November onwards as dry cold artic weather is pulled from the north, rather than the wet/warm streams from the south west which is more normal for this time of year.
Because it’s been engineered.
This should be good. Where's all the water gone then?
Always keen to get the views of new posters….
Not just me then...
I saw that Severn Trent has started a consultation to expand the Ladybower reservoirs. Some of the water currently goes to Yorkshire water (surprise to me, an aqueduct under the moors apparently), but that agreement may be ended in 2035 hence some urgency to either expand capacity by raising the height of the existing dams, or building a new reservoir upstream.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-63229627
@nickc - I was just about to mention some of the long-range winter forecasts going for a blocked winter as well.
That's not going to help fill the reservoirs up down in the south of England if it happens!
There’s a stream in the woods by my house which is only a few miles long. With the wetter October the woods are soggy and muddy in the proper autumn style, and when it’s raining the run-off swells the stream. But when that’s gone and it falls back to whatever spring feeds it at the top the flow is noticeably lower than it was before the summer.
I know of a few streams that have been dry for months, even the recent rain hasn't got them running again. Yesterday I was surprised to find the stream that runs alongside the Twrch climb at Cwmcarn was still bone dry, that normally runs fast after some rain. The guy in the tollbooth said the upper levels above the trail centre are still rock solid where it's normally quite spongy up there all year round.
It'll take a very wet winter (even by Welsh standards!) to recharge the whole system.