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Today's news is that the NHS is preparing to switch track to the Apple/Google app. Turns out that that the technology companies might be better at the technology after all.
Turns out that that the technology companies might be better at the technology after all.
Not the point for me. And the last major iOS update on the wife's iPhone was full of bugs, so no, they're not always better. And a few techie coder mates are pretty impressed with what Pivotal/VMware has managed to do.
But yeah, makes total sense to switch to the functionality provided by the phone OS if it's reliable. Will be a while though until that's fully released.
Just need to sort the legislation/data protection side now. I noticed yesterday medical records (not anonymised obviously) held by the NHS is already default opt-in for use for research and planning.
Don't know if the UK app differs much from the one they are asking us to use here in Aus, but apparently it's very flaky on Apple phones, to the point of it being virtually useless.
Don’t know if the UK app differs much from the one they are asking us to use here in Aus, but apparently it’s very flaky on Apple phones, to the point of it being virtually useless.
https://twitter.com/tim/status/1258649318648614912?s=21
I'm not so fussed on the privacy side given how much Google, Facebook and even the government know about me. Though I trust the latter less with my data, but not that they have some secret agenda, just their incompetence.
My main concern is the accuracy. As said, distance measuring on BT seems very flakey. I could be told I should lock down fully for couple of weeks because signal suggested I was close enough for long enough to someone infected when I wasn't, or someone behind a wall is infected. Could be my neighbour. Go to the supermarket, keeping as distant as possible, maybe wearing a face mask, but one person has the virus and everyone there is flagged. Even those in the next aisle to the infected person.
Don’t know if the UK app differs much from the one they are asking us to use here in Aus, but apparently it’s very flaky on Apple phones, to the point of it being virtually useless.
They seem to have tried their hardest, but I'm pretty confident they'll move to Apple/Google when they can.
'The NHS COVID-19 app appears to work correctly when running in the background on iOS devices, unlike the Australian COVIDSafe app'
https://reincubate.com/blog/staying-alive-covid-19-background-tracing/
A few people were suspicious the backend code isn't published but says here they'll do that too.
https://www.nhsx.nhs.uk/blogs/code-behind-nhs-covid-19-app/
My main concern is the accuracy. As said, distance measuring on BT seems very flakey.
Yeah. What the original post was about. Who knows. In theory, it's doable. All determined from the Bluetooth LE signal strength.
For Apple phones you know exactly what the hardware is so could be quite accurate.
Android every type of phone is different. I think I read this is why the app looks at the phone model as they've determined the behaviour of BLE on various phones.
All clever stuff. Will prob still get false positives (and negatives) though.
One presumes they're using a variation on the WHO model of 'contact', which (iirc) is within 1m for 15mins. Obviously they could decide to go with within 0.5m for 10mins or something. Not sure false positives because of that is something that will be a major factor.
I could be told I should lock down fully for couple of weeks because signal suggested I was close enough for long enough to someone infected when I wasn’t, or someone behind a wall is infected. Could be my neighbour. Go to the supermarket, keeping as distant as possible, maybe wearing a face mask, but one person has the virus and everyone there is flagged. Even those in the next aisle to the infected person.
In some of those examples, if you're somewhere for 10 or 15 minutes there is elevated risk - like a neighbour or in a shop. In those instances, I'd want to know, but surely you'd get a test so you could minimise the isolation period?
This is where the clever Oxford Uni algorithm comes in.
Can maybe see the reason for the enduring ID people worry about. Does that allow the system to know about repeat exposure? e.g. you chat to the same postie or neighbour every day for 20 seconds, they then test positive so the app decides it's worth you having a test due to the repeated exposure.
And a few techie coder mates are pretty impressed with what Pivotal/VMware has managed to do.
Yep it’s not bad stuff.
TBH I can see their code coming to an app near you after lockdown for more er frivolous activities 🙂
Early testing of the NHSX app has shown function issues on older iPhones, and a variety of Android phones running older iterations of the OS, which would be a significant issue considering how many cheap Android phones come with older versions of the OS pre-installed, so it’s this issue which has probably triggered the about-turn regarding the A/G app, and some people have also reported battery issues, batteries draining rapidly, etc.
A bit more info from The Register:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/
Sorry it’s a Daily Wail online article, but it does give a bit more detail about Android phones which seem to be having issues with the NHSX app:
https://www.****/news/article-8302943/NHS-building-new-Covid-19-contact-tracing-app.html?ito=rss-flipboard
Early testing of the NHSX app has shown function issues on older iPhones
Don't forget the Apple approach won't work at all if you can't run iOS 13. So iPhone 6 or older is excluded.
Yes, press and public pressure will push us to use Apple/Google - which will reduce what the app can do I think, delay go live, but improve the chance of takeup.
Don’t forget the Apple approach won’t work at all if you can’t run iOS 13. So iPhone 6 or older is excluded.
Depends on Apple they could put out patches to earlier IOS versions, they’ve done it for security patches in the past.
In the NHSX app nothing obviously jumped out at me that they were using anything 13 specific (no combine or swiftui) and I think it’s targeted to run on min of iOS 11
And that, Mister Anderson, is the sound of inevitability.
Doesn't a "you've been near someone" app really just tell you that EVERYONE needs to stay away from EVERYONE else?
I mean, I've just been to the supermarket, i'd guess i've been resonably close to something like 100 people over th3 45min i shopped for. And those 100 people, have each been in contact with another 100 people. Before long, everyones phone will bing up a message saying "isolate" won't it?
(Which is why the "full" lockdown type actions work to slow (and perhaps halt but maybe not) the spread of the virus)
What am i missing?
What am i missing?
The risk of virus transfer is only significant if you have been within 2 metres of someone for 15 minutes.
needs to stay away from EVERYONE else?
I mean, I’ve just been to the supermarket, i’d guess i’ve been resonably close to something like 100 people over th3 45min i shopped for. And those 100 people, have each been in contact with another 100 people. Before long, everyones phone will bing up a message saying “isolate” won’t it?
No - it only joins the dots if one of the parties has positive test (or possibly confirmed symptoms). Assuming the community prevalence is low it shouldn’t trigger often even if you do manage to mingle far too closely and for far too long to 100 ppl in Tesco. The prevalence in the community a few weeks ago was 1:400, assuming its fallen since then and people with symptoms self isolate the number of infected people wandering Tesco must be something like 1:1000, and you won’t be close enough to all of them for long enough to trigger the app (and not everyone will have the app). The more an app alert inconveniences the user the more likely they uninstall (eg if you keeping having to ram a swab up your nose and self isolate waiting for results) so there will be a fine balance on how long and how close the phones need to be to avoid too many false positives. You might hope that the app would act as a useful encouragement to stop people interacting (perhaps it could show your personal interaction rate v everyone else) but I expect that’s not on the radar right now.
@cougar has highlighted my exact concern. Privacy and security is part of what I do for a living and a lot of that filters through to my personal life.
I don't entrust social media platforms with my information any more than I'd entrust a shambolic organisation such as Serco.
'For the greater good' only goes so far.
I will not sign-up to the NHSX system but would to the Apple-Google one.
UK govs for years have failed dismally in developing and implementing IT systems resulting in multi billion £ write-offs and abandoned schemes.
Add Serco into the mix and the centralised nature of the NHSX system.
Apple-Google now claim that have resolved the initial problems with their system
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52740131
How long before hancock announces a change of direction?
I do not pretend to understand the tech behind this but from the little I do understand the NHSX app has serious privacy issue more so that the google one. I for one will not download it
So yet again, if you don't install the app will you cooperate with the manual contact tracer who calls you and takes down pretty much the same personal details that end up in either the same system or a (currently) less scrutinised back end?
Oh and bear in mind that one of the most common security issues with it systems comes from the person in the loop either being careless (eg ccing a bunch of email addresses rather than bccing them) or acting maliciously, so the manual system isn't some magically better option.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't?
So yet again, if you don’t install the app will you cooperate with the manual contact tracer who calls you and takes down pretty much the same personal details that end up in either the same system or a (currently) less scrutinised back end?
Totally different propositions. If contact tracer calls me today, I self isolate, I get tested, then if positive I tell them who I’ve had contact with. At that point I am a known risk to them and I’ll happily share details. That’s totally different to preemptively tracking me, and ignoring all the privacy concerns people expressed during the design phase because you want that data...
UK govs for years have failed dismally in developing and implementing IT systems resulting in multi billion £ write-offs and abandoned schemes.
Add Serco into the mix and the centralised nature of the NHSX system.
I do not pretend to understand the tech behind this but from the little I do understand the NHSX app has serious privacy issue more so that the google one. I for one will not download it
Using the Apple/Google API only replaces the bespoke/central contact tracing and notification element of the NHSX app. The rest of the app could still ask for personal info, store it centrally, analyse data, merge the data with other NHS data, still involve outsourcers (Serco) etc.
That said, I will use it.
OK, for the non installers how about this proposal:
The current NHSX app stores the data on your phone (admittedly unencrypted in the current version, oops) until you authorise it to upload to the central server after developing symptoms and testing positive. So it logs contacts locally but you keep hold of that data until you opt not to.
That means that even with the NHSX app you could just have it running to be notified if you happened to be at risk from someone you don't know (so manual tracing would fail), but then opt not to upload your own contact data if you did test positive and use the manual tracing instead. That's moved your own use a bit closer to the Google/Apple model, it's probably less benefit to the nation's health, but does it assuage a privacy concern?
admittedly unencrypted in the current version, oops
Both iOS and Android have defaulted to encrypted storage on the device for ages, haven't they?
That’s moved your own use a bit closer to the Google/Apple model, it’s probably less benefit to the nation’s health, but does it assuage a privacy concern?
From experience, it won't. Folks usually end up saying 'well, that's what they tell you they are doing'. Whatever you propose, they then counter with a theoretical worst case. I reckon people have already decided yes or no, the technicalities of how the app works is largely irrelevant.
Glad to hear they are very focused on security and protecting personal details. Shame about the email leaks that show a basic lax attitude towards security and personal details. Oh something seems wrong there.
No, not a major breach but a bloody school boy error symptomatic of an approach and experience level within the program
No – it only joins the dots if one of the parties has positive test (or possibly confirmed symptoms)
I thought the UK app allows a user to self report without having a positive test result?
Which means people could report false positives because they have symptoms of other illnesses, or malicious users could simply use the app to anonymously generate alerts.
I thought the UK app allows a user to self report without having a positive test result?
Which means people could report false positives because they have symptoms of other illnesses, or malicious users could simply use the app to anonymously generate alerts.
From people who've used it...
'The app prevents false reports by providing users with symptoms with a reference code: that code is then associated with formal test results before action is taken'
So at a minimum, your symptoms need to have been reviewed and a code issued to you.
I think the advice it gives people you've been in contact with ramps up depending if it is just symptoms or an actual positive test.
The difference between a human track and trace and the app is the human track and trace will only have your data if and when needed. The app will have all your movement data with zero safeguards and indeed the tories are attempting to removed data protection safeguards.
There is no way on earth I am going to have an app that allows that much of my data to be held by people I do not trust.
So at a minimum, your symptoms need to have been reviewed and a code issued to you
I looked your quote up at http://www.netimperative.com/2020/05/07/first-look-nhs-covid-19-tracing-app-put-to-the-test/ to get more details:
If a user reports symptoms, the app provides a number to call to arrange a test, along with a reference code. The idea is that the test result is then associated with the user’s reference code. Were a user to falsely report symptoms, confirmation would not happen without the NHS updating the test result to match the user’s code.
So the app would only alert if you return a positive test after notification and your positive result has been cross referenced to the original alert. That addresses the false reporting issue, but effective alerting is going to be heavily dependent on being able to turn around tests as quickly as possible and cross reference the results.
Agreed. It all becomes pretty impractical unless the testing process is efficient. Our achilles heel from day 1, really hope they get it sorted.
Now that is a dumb decision - there's clearly a sizeable chunk of the population who need more reassurance about data privacy for this app, and they've not only failed to give that reassurance but have added the potential to perceive this as confirming that the intentions for these data are not pure. Bravo (not).
Both iOS and Android have defaulted to encrypted storage on the device for ages, haven’t they?
For Android some low end devices lack the hardware and power to do encryption other than in software so some manufacturers disable it out of the box. Especially ones a few years old.
There are also still 4.4 devices out there. Particularly used by old folk or as hand-me-downs to kids. Though likely the app won't run on them anyway.
It didn't work - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53095336
The NHS has been testing both systems against each other, over the course of the past month.
The centralised version trialled on the Isle of Wight worked well at assessing the distance between two users, but was poor at recognising Apple's iPhones.
Specifically, the software registered about 75% of nearby Android handsets but only 4% of iPhones.
but was poor at recognising Apple’s iPhones.
FFS - no shit Sherlock!
So Hancock has jus said the failure of the app is not their fault but Apple's?!? You mean the issue that everyone flagged up from the beginning?
Unbelievable the brass neck he has.
How much truth is there in the rumour that the developers were pals of Cummings?
Or was it just the horrible ****s at Serco?
Apparently Apple say that HMG have not been in contact regarding ‘hybrid model’ Matt Hancock announced yesterday
From the Guardian
In its report today, the Times said sources at Apple claimed they were no informed of the announcement or consulted about the plan to work together.
“We don’t know what they mean by this hybrid model. They haven’t spoken to us about it,” a source said.
Apple was also said to have queried the claim that its model was less accurate at measuring distance than the government’s own NHSX model.
“It is difficult to understand what these claims are as they haven’t spoken to us. But the app has been downloaded by 6 million in 24 hours in Germany, the Italians have had it going since Monday, the Dutch government and Irish government have it, and there has been no issue about proximity detection.”
Anyone surprised?
So Hancock has jus said the failure of the app is not their fault but Apple’s?!? You mean the issue that everyone flagged up from the beginning?
Unbelievable the brass neck he has.
Not quite.
As we all knew, our own app won't work well on Apple devices.
What they've discovered in testing is the Google/Apple version of the app (the one everyone says we should be using) doesn't work well enough either. Our app is actually better at the contact detection bit as it calculates distance better.
So we're now working with Apple/Google on improving their solution - although Apple seems unaware 🙂
.
What they’ve discovered in testing is the Google/Apple version of the app (the one everyone says we should be using) doesn’t work well enough either. Our app is actually better at the contact detection bit as it calculates distance better.
Worth noting that Apple and Google don't actually make an app.
How much truth is there in the rumour that the developers were pals of Cummings?
Or was it just the horrible **** at Serco?
I think this was debunked. Pivotal are the actual developers of the app (acquired by VMware last year). I assume Serco provide another element of the service.
https://fullfact.org/online/not-dominic-cummings-sister/
https://www.vmware.com/radius/pat-gelsinger-contact-tracing-apps/
Worth noting that Apple and Google don’t actually make an app.
Agreed, it's an API, our app sits on top. The Apple documentation does mention a bare-bones standalone app will be released in coming months, not sure how that would integrate with the health service processes.
What they’ve discovered in testing is the Google/Apple version of the app (the one everyone says we should be using) doesn’t work well enough either. Our app is actually better at the contact detection bit as it calculates distance better.
So we’re now working with Apple/Google on improving their solution – although Apple seems unaware
On This Morning right now, Apple have had no contact or discussion at all about this.
Hancock is openly blaming Apple, completely ignoring the fact that this app is designed to be platform-agnostic, able to function across a whole range of makes and models on iOS and Android! *wit! 🤬
Yet another example of why our government should never be allowed to develop large IT systems, because they’re completely *ing incompetent!
Just like that cluster**** NHS system that the Labour government under Brown(?) was developing that was supposed to link hospitals and doctors surgeries and health centres, which was scrapped after allegedly spending up to £100 billion on it!
It’s strange thou the issue’s were fixablish and I’d have thought they would have wanted to do a Boris presentation.
If they’d swapped to the GApple API and put a proper agreement to not hang onto the data we’d have a product that other countries managed to ship and numpty boy wouldn’t be there blaming everyone else.
(I don’t doubt that our home built would be better at distance but Apple would be doing this with a compromise on battery life.)
Course the the big elephant in the room is whether any of it really works well enough. (App/public uptake)
Perhaps they needed games designers to make it something that appealed to the public as well as being useful to ensure uptake.
Like the football competition perhaps 🙂
Can't change the laws of physics, even if you are Apple.
I don’t doubt that our home built would be better at distance but Apple would be doing this with a compromise on battery life.
It's not a battery life issue - it's privacy again. The UK app is sharing the phone model, then using a table of phone model against Bluetooth power to work out the distance better. Apple/Google's API won't share the phone model since it's a personal identifier. This looks to be solve-able: phones could be classified into one of a few power bands (eg high, medium, low) and that could be shared without loss of privacy.
Hancock is openly blaming Apple, completely ignoring the fact that this app is designed to be platform-agnostic, able to function across a whole range of makes and models on iOS and Android! ****wit! 🤬
Yes, there's both a Google and Apple version of the app. But the Apple version seems to be the one that everyone (not just us) is struggling to get working because of the way the OS is designed. Don't think he's saying Apple are causing issues on Android??
Singapore is now looking to develop a dedicated wearable device and roll it out to the population after all the issues they've had getting this working on smartphones.
Meanwhile I'm using an app from Guys and ICL that allows you to report how well you feel day to day and has good privacy controls.
The problems come when developers go mad with data harvesting for things that they do not need (eg a battery charging app that wants access to my photos and address book, that's a hard no and uninstall straight away).
We need an app that does the bare minimum with good privacy controls but those commissioning the work can't stop themselves trying to see all that we get up to. The struggle with iOS is due to this compulsion to go where Apple say you must not to maintain privacy, the designers/developers need to "Think Different".
Apple have built their OS the way it is for various reasons, including security and privacy. Complaining that they are at fault and should change things to accommodate a specific app is a bit back to front.
It might just be the case that a mobile phone app is simply not a good solution for contact tracing, given the technical limitations of the operating systems. Compare the UK response to the pandemic with Kerala (a state of 35 million people) who relied on old school testing, tracing and quarantine:
Our "world beating" approach might give us a phone app without contact tracing by the end of the year...
has good privacy controls.
If that's the Zoe app then it's a bit vague on the privacy controls; they talk about anonymous data but the information they collect is so detailed that it can't be, they are vague on who gets the anonymous version, they are vague on whether things like IP address are considered personal or not. They don't say what constitutes vital interests. The NHS gets the personal data anyway, for no good reason. They talk about contracts with Google and Amazon but don't say if the liability is 2p or 2 billion pounds (it's going to be closer to 2p). And they neglect to mention all the public agencies that are entitled to a copy of the data under the Investigatory Powers Act.
Just a reminder that in April Google and Apple together decided what covid19 proximity apps could exist, and how governments could use them.
Bullshit. They only allow one app per a region, because otherwise the apps compete against each other, and none of them get the % uptake required to be useful. It is then down to the elected state government who supplies that app, and whether is uses the baked in APIs or not. If you haven’t got an app in your region, or it doesn’t work in the way you’d like, that’s is 100% down to your elected state government.
An interesting counterpoint…
... from someone who clearly either doesn't know what an API is or doesn't care.
How much truth is there in the rumour that the developers were pals of Cummings?
Some were Faculty employees I believe.
… from someone who clearly either doesn’t know what an API is or doesn’t care.
But the key functionality is Apple/Google's. You're mandated to use their distributed design and contact detection algorithm (given any other approach won't work), and it comes with restrictions.
With hindsight, we should have just done a Germany, roll it out and any contact detection issues are then down to A/G. Had a bit of early feedback from someone using their app, says it doesn't seem to be doing anything at all.
Is anyone surprised that Hancock is lying about this?
he's made stuff up on the hoof from the very start of the crisis
the daft thing is, the more the government so obviously lie to us, the less likely people will be to trust them & use the app!
You’re mandated to use their distributed design and contact detection algorithm (given any other approach won’t work)
You’re not mandated to use anything. As is proven by all the contact tracing apps around the world that don’t use their APIs, and are in use, and working, and are in the Google and Apple app stores. The only restriction is that you or I can’t release our own apps via their stores, and confuse the public. One app, chosen by the authorities, per a region, that’s the restriction. There are working apps in other countries based on open source code, and bespoke code... it’s not just Google/Apple API based apps out there.
As is proven by all the contact tracing apps around the world that don’t use their APIs, and are in use, and working, and are in the Google and Apple app stores.
Technically I don't see how that is possible on Apple unless they have the apps foregrounded 24/7 or jailbreak their iPhones.
Just get the bloomin' thing released. You've lost any public confidence anyway. Surely some contact detection is better than none at all?
I think the window on public confidence on the app closed a while ago, the whole Cummings affair probably didn’t help with trust.
I’ve just recently seen the FB posts doing the rounds about the Covid app installed on your phone,( it’s the permission screen) wowsers 🙁
Technically I don’t see how that is possible on Apple unless they have the apps foregrounded 24/7 or jailbreak their iPhones.
It doesn’t work very well. So using the APIs makes sense. TraceTogether shows the limitations (and predated the APIs)… ‘our’ people claimed they’d found a better way than TT used to ensure/replicate keepalive… shock horror… they were bullshitting or just plain wrong… ours was worse.
I’ve just recently seen the FB posts doing the rounds about the Covid app installed on your phone,( it’s the permission screen) wowsers
2am WhatsApp message from the head at my other half’s school about the permissions… 😑
But the key functionality is Apple/Google’s. You’re mandated to use their distributed design and contact detection algorithm (given any other approach won’t work), and it comes with restrictions.
You're not "mandated" to do anything of the sort, rather that a framework has been created to allow applications to function in a secure manner. Plenty of countries are trying to do their own thing including the UK up until a U-turn a couple of days ago when they realised that ("told you so") it didn't work.
There are restrictions for what applications can and cannot do and this is a Good Thing. Do you really want the UK Government - a government who, lest we forget, introduced the Investigatory Powers Act, wanted to make secure encryption illegal and has a tame Big Data and AI company in its back pocket - to have direct access to the hardware on every mobile device in the country? Cos I sure as shit don't.
In case we had all conveniently forgotten about the Investigatory Powers Act or "Snooper's Charter" incidentally, as a reminder here's a list of all the companies that can demand your Internet records without requiring a warrant:
Metropolitan Police Service
City of London Police
Police forces maintained under section 2 of the Police Act 1996
Police Service of Scotland
Police Service of Northern Ireland
British Transport Police
Ministry of Defence Police
Royal Navy Police
Royal Military Police
Royal Air Force Police
Security Service
Secret Intelligence Service
GCHQ
Ministry of Defence
Department of Health
Home Office
Ministry of Justice
National Crime Agency
HM Revenue & Customs
Department for Transport
Department for Work and Pensions
NHS trusts and foundation trusts in England that provide ambulance services
NHS National Services Scotland
Competition and Markets Authority
Criminal Cases Review Commission
Department for Communities (Northern Ireland)
Department for the Economy (Northern Ireland)
Department of Justice (Northern Ireland)
Financial Conduct Authority
Fire and rescue authorities under the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004
Food Standards Agency
Food Standards Scotland
Gambling Commission
Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority
Health and Safety Executive
Independent Police Complaints Commission
Information Commissioner
NHS Business Services Authority
Northern Ireland Ambulance Service Health and Social Care Trust
Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service Board
Health & Social Care Business Services Organisation (Northern Ireland)
Office of Communications
Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland
Police Investigations and Review Commissioner
Scottish Ambulance Service Board
Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission
Serious Fraud Office
Welsh Ambulance Services National Health Service Trust
Still want to trust them with your tracking data?
Do you really want the UK Government...to have direct access to the hardware on every mobile device in the country? Cos I sure as shit don’t.
Has the swear filter broken??
We are talking about allowing an app to scan and connect to a BLE peripheral in the background.
With hindsight, we should have just done a Germany, roll it out and any contact detection issues are then down to A/G. Had a bit of early feedback from someone using their app, says it doesn’t seem to be doing anything at all.
Probably because, the German app was released about 4 days ago, only about 10% of the population downloaded it in those first couple of days, German new infection numbers are now pretty low (with the localised exception of 1 outbreak in an abattoir etc.). So assuming a perfectly even distribution of app downloads, that'd make something like 200 people in a population of 80 million trigger the alert in the last week, of which pretty much all 200 people would have already been showing symptoms and already be in bed within 24 hours of getting the app, where most/all of the matches will more than likely be people in the same household or place of work.
So not seeming to be doing anything at all, statistically seems about right. Unlike NHS IoS app where not seeming to be doing much at all was completely predicted and publicised by app software devs.
Yep on the Covid applications auto installing Facebook posts - *really* _ this gets reposted without critical thinking, a quick check and yep its not really true - but after Cummings, the government and publicity about NHSX, Track and Trace, Google and Apple, its a plausible post.
Has the swear filter broken??
That isn't and has never been in the filter.
We are talking about allowing an app to scan and connect to a BLE peripheral in the background.
You might be.
Someone on Twitter has suggested we might have a beer ordering app in place before we have a C19 track and trace app. Sounds good to me... 😉
Ask yourself this.
Google and Apple - combined the OS creators of pretty much every still-supported smartphone handset in the world - have collaborated to come up with a method of providing anonymised data in a consistent and standardised way to the designated app of every state leader in the world.
In the middle of a global emergency where speed of response is critical, the UK instead chose to commission AI experts to write an app from scratch using unproven ideas which bypassed G/A's distributed model and would collate all this data (allegedly) anonymously in a centralised database that they'd have 100% unrestricted access to.
Why?
beer ordering app - was already in place for likes of Wetherspoons I think.
mate was involved in a remote ordering app previously, which had only partial uptake - if it can be adapted for pubs and cafes, could be on to a winner!
Why?
There is always "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity".
GCHQ has had mobile phone tracking and tracing since before the Omagh bombings, so it's not that. Maybe they don't want people to know how good it is.
There is always “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”.
Hanlon's Razor. I'd be more inclined to believe that if they didn't have previous. Lots and lots and lots of previous.
In the middle of a global emergency where speed of response is critical, the UK instead chose to commission AI experts to write an app from scratch using unproven ideas which bypassed G/A’s distributed model and would collate all this data (allegedly) anonymously in a centralised database that they’d have 100% unrestricted access to.
Why?
Because the government are crap at doing their job. See also every other aspect of managing the Coronovirus pandemic.
Jamze
SubscriberYou’re mandated to use their distributed design and contact detection algorithm (given any other approach won’t work),
That's not being "mandated", that's just how you work with an existing product. It's like saying your car manufacturer mandates what fuels you can use. Or, if you're Matt Hancock, filling your car with pepsi max then blaming Toyota for not being more supportive of your cola-car plans.
French app has sent a total of 14 notifications in three weeks:
https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/23/french-contact-tracing-app-stopcovid-has-been-activated-1-8-million-times-but-only-sent-14-notifications/
Or, if you’re Matt Hancock, filling your car with pepsi max then blaming Toyota for not being more supportive of your cola-car plans.
That gave me a laugh, thanks for that.
Only 68 StopCovid users have declared that they’ve been diagnosed COVID-19-positive in the app. The server received 205 social interactions from those 68 cases.
In the end, StopCovid has only sent 14 notifications over the past three weeks.
So about 3 interactions per infected person, seems reasonable. Also:
On the server again, each user is associated with a risk score. If it goes above a certain threshold, the user receives a notification. The app then recommends you get tested and follow official instructions.
I guess not every fleeting bluetooth contact is deemed infectable.
But... 1.9million using the app out of 60 million odd, how many contacts with app-less people were there?
But… 1.9million using the app out of 60 million odd, how many contacts with app-less people were there?
It’s one of the elephants in the room with ‘relying’ On an app.
I Think you’ve got to do a ‘tie in’ say a weekly/ Daily lottery to entice people to want to use it, give prizes out.
Perhaps have more than one app, say a football one all doing the tracking but providing something useful,a version For each of the Countries favourite interests.
Having a working app is one thing but having one out there in large enough numbers to be effective....now that’s hard.
Transmission is much, much higher in enclosed spaces, you just need to get the people in these places
Halfcock was halfway there when he said you'd have to leave contact details at door of pub.
Instead only allow entry if you've downloaded app, same for churches, public transport, hospitals, offices, swingers clubs & other high risk venues