[Closed] The cold harsh reality of prison life! No Sky Plus!

The 4,000 offenders in privately run prisons will also lose access to satellite subscription channels, such as Sky Sports. Prisoners in all jails will not be allowed to watch daytime television in their cells when they should be working or engaging in purposeful activities.

Welcome to the real world of work

In fairness, in all the times I'm been in Armley Prison, I've never seen a TV in a prisoners cell, I've never seen anyone in their own clothes and actually, it doesn't look all that fun. Armley is a a proper prison though, not just a naughty chaps holiday camp for politicians!

Hear hear!

They should be employed in something useful, not only to fund their food and lodging, but also to pay off the invoice which they should have been issued to cover the costs of the policing and courts which led to the conviction.

Bit of free telly when off shift is OK. BBC/C4 News or something.

Or build up their upper body strength to be better at mugging people when they get out?

[img] [/img]

I thought we'd cut back so much on rehabilitation funding that the problem was a lack of 'purposeful activities' in prisons.....

Binners, you are naughty.

In fairness, in all the times I'm been in Armley Prison, I've never seen a TV in a prisoners cell, I've never seen anyone in their own clothes and actually, it doesn't look all that fun. Armley is a a proper prison though, not just a naughty chaps holiday camp for politicians![\quote]
Agreed, been in Winson Green several times, and it doesn't look like a cakewalk to me. Granted its not one of those butlins style open prisons, but there's a whole spectrum of offenders, makes sense to have a spectrum of punishment. Or is that too liberal...?

 

[i]Women prisoners will not have to wear a uniform.[/i]

That's sexual discrimination that is.

[i]They should be employed in something useful, not only to fund their food and lodging, but also to pay off the invoice which they should have been issued to cover the costs of the policing and courts which led to the conviction.[/i]

And what job do you want them to take off someone on the outside?

Have to make do with bum-love then

And what job do you want them to take off someone on the outside?

You're point is valid, but without wanting to sound like a daily mail apologist, how about jobs that we currently export to cheap labour countries anyway, like Primark clothes making, or plastic toy assembly? Or maybe jobs that we have to import labour for, like cockle picking, fruit picking, vegetable picking? Processing waste in recycling plants? Just a thought, as prisons seem uniquely positioned to offer 'less than minimum wage' labouring the UK labour market.

Have to make do with bum-love then

Apparently thats a myth. However if I faced at least 20yrs in jail I'd turn gay (and rampant) very very quickly. **** doing without sex

We all would so stop the belly aching

I don't know why prisoners just don't try and get out more . . . 😀

[img] [/img]

I think that's a rash assumption hora. Only the prison bull's get to have bum sex. Pretty boys like you get to have sex given to them.

Maybe the absence of liberty is the punishment - not the conditions inside. Having visited a couple of prisons and been escorted around majority of the facilities I can safely say that neither looked that cushy to me.

Pretty boys like you get to have sex given to them.

[img] [/img]

😆

I wonder why prison authorities saw fit to spend all that money installing all this Sky TV in the first place?

Good point, someone somewhere within procurement etc along the line agreed a lucrative deal that benefited $$$ Sky.

Why do we allways have to descend into some sort of "bum love" / male rape jokes everytime a topic is about prison/prisoners?

There is no shame in being gay and no humour in rape.

As for prisons decide if you wish to rehabilitate or punish according to your own moral compass but be certain neither approach will end offending or re offending
We do a bit of both and neither well IMHO.

Having seen the inside of a number of prisons, including the open "butlins ones" they are not places I want to work in again let alone reside there

Played volleyball against inmates in Dartmoor - never realised until then what was meant by the offence of "intimidation through the net".

Still looked like a crap place to be imprisoned.

I wonder why prison authorities saw fit to spend all that money installing all this Sky TV in the first place?

They wanted to make them feel at home. The same initiative saw them able to buy dodgy knock off Lambert & Butler, Skunk and bottles of white lightning, while fathering illegitimate children with Sharon from near the precinct.

Alas, these basic human rights have also been eroded over the years

Or maybe the people who actually run these things realised that being too brutal in prison doesn't actually help?

Just a wild crazy thought, you know.. maybe the people who run prisons know more than we do?

Just a wild crazy thought, you know.. maybe the people who run prisons know more than we do?

Why not normal tv?

Even wall to wall Sky movies etc- you'd still be bored shitless I imagine.

The grim reality for many offenders is theres nothing on the outside for them. No money which then means going hungry etc. So prison really is a better option in alot of cases.

Why not the jokes? Its hardly a seriously meant topic. Plus the jokes, Offended? Hit the ban button- you know that one well I imagine.

So prison really is a better option in alot of cases.

Even if you have to watch Loose Women every day? Even the title taunts you, then ultimately fails to deliver...

eermm ... put them to hard labour and in chain gang Dear Leader's style?

[quote=rogerthecat said]Played volleyball against inmates in Dartmoor - never realised until then what was meant by the offence of "intimidation through the net".
Still looked like a crap place to be imprisoned.

Was the "net" the prison wall ? 😉

allthepies - Member
Was the "net" the prison wall ?

Wish it had been, played for China Fleet with a bunch of RM headjobs, so you can imaging how much fun that fixture used to be, funny we never played them back at our place.

I'm sure that those who run prisons do know more about it that the rest of us. Well, I would hope they do.

But perhaps there is a element of keeeping the peace is better than confrontation. Maybe its just a case of re-establishing a few boundries.

TBH, I am amazed prisoners are allowed sky and access to x rated movies.

If they want to do that sort of stuff, how about not doing stuff that lead to prison in the first place.
What happened to going to nick, reading Satre and Machevelli and coming out with an Open University degree and becoming an anti establishment agitator?

Having seen the inside of a number of prisons, including the open "butlins ones" they are not places I want to work in again let alone reside there

Excellent! The deterrent has worked in your case. However...

The grim reality for many offenders is theres nothing on the outside for them. No money which then means going hungry etc. So prison really is a better option in alot of cases.

There is also the institutionalisation of people.

I agree with v8ninety in that we could probably come to some arrangement with certain companies to set up some sort of manufacturing facility. But there needs to be continuation outside of prison. Providing a structured environment with gainful employment inside prison and nothing outside will achieve nothing. As with all things there is no "one size fits all" solution*.
.
.
.
*no references to bum sex inferred...

But perhaps there is a element of keeeping the peace is better than confrontation.

So you think 5 years of being brutally oppressed and driven mad is going to make people into peaceful law abiding citizens when they get out?

The ex prisoner on radio 4 made some good points this morning, reoffending isn't really addressed whilst in prison, once you're released you can very much end up on your own, jobless, homeless etc. Very very easy to fall back into previous offending patterns. I imagine the probation service do their best but there'll no doubt be political interference and a lack of funding to do the job properly.

The big question though is do we spend money and resources on getting ex-offenders back on their feet, rehabilitated, settled and in employment whilst people who don't have a criminal record don't qualify for that level of help. Is it a better use of resources to attempt to prevent reoffending, is it morally right to not support those who haven't broken the rules? If we don't rehabilitate properly post release what do we do, carry on moaning about the crime rate (which is allegedly reducing anyway), put ex offenders into hostels?

So lets have a look at the actual numbers:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9574892/3000-prisoners-allowed-to-watch-subscription-Sky-TV.html

That's out of 84000...

reoffending isn't really addressed whilst in prison, once you're released you can very much end up on your own, jobless, homeless etc. Very very easy to fall back into previous offending patterns.

They've been saying that for as long as I can remember.

They should be put to work making cycleways and trails all over the country

jees sky tv, that would be torture for me, though im sceptical that prison is all ronnie barker- like escapades and premiere league football

I strongly suspect its a lot cheaper to leave the tv on all the time than invest in decent rehabilitation/ education programmes

So you think 5 years of being brutally oppressed and driven mad is going to make people into peaceful law abiding citizens when they get out?

No - and they weren't when they went there, or potentially, many yaers before that.
How are they "brutally oppressed" - I think we are talking Armley here, not the Bangkok Hilton.It's not fun , so maybe that is an incentive not to go again?
The issue is that I'm sure that rehabilitation is the holy grail. How many cons want to be "rehabilitated"?

The comments below the Grauniad article in the OP from ex prisoners and prison guards make clear what a pile of old cack this stuff is. It's one step above Pet ASBOs: cheap eyewash that doesn't cost anything and will never actually have to be implemented.

How are they "brutally oppressed"

If you make someone sit in a cell staring at walls for 23 hours a day - that's fairly brutal. Not as bad as some places of course but still bad.

anyone would think the torries were desperately trying to claw back some right wing votes b4 the imminent local elections

Tory Minister with history of dishonesty amd next to no kmowledge of his department gets his facts wrong again..

" At both HMP Dovegate and HMP Lowdham Grange, which cater for long term offenders, the prisoners have access to Premium Sky. This is completely paid for by the Prison Trust which is funded by prisoners and it does not come out of the public purse.

"The small In-cell televisions are funded by prisoners who pay a weekly fee to rent them through money that they earn in the prison workshops.

"Access to televisions is conditional on good behaviour. TVs can and will be removed from prisoners whose behaviour becomes unacceptable

If you make someone sit in a cell staring at walls for 23 hours a day - that's fairly brutal. Not as bad as some places of course but still bad.

Can do the time , don't do the crime
I find it difficult to believe that even most prisoners would refer to it a brutal.
They get fed, watered, heating, education (if wanted) and work ... It might be as dull as f***, harsh, maybe but calling it "brutal" is a little "Sky News"
I have no doubt all prisons have their pecking orders and hard men. But you don't have to go there ...

They get fed, watered, heating, [b]education (if wanted) and work[/b]

No, they don't. Very few prisoners get work and education, and they mostly like it because its time out of the cells.

So how / what do they have to do to access it?
I know illiteracy rates in prisona re meant to be at about 30-40%. So if basic education cannot be accessed, then that is does seem to be very short sighted.

So how / what do they have to do to access it?

AIUI we've been slashing the budget for rehabilitation for decades as our politicians pander to Daily Mail rants about soft prison regimes with murderers encouraged to read books and learn skills rather than ROT IN HELL LIKE THE SCUM THAT THEY ARE etc etc etc.....

They should be MADE TO READ BOOKS AND GET AN EDUCATION then ... so, in fact, turning the TVs now seems to make sense ...

"Slashing budgets" - very daily mail 🙂 - for "needing to get control of expenditure"?

Can do the time , don't do the crime

Right, but in this case they have already done the crime. Deterrents only work BEFORE things have been done.

So why did the Brits / Americans hang Saddam Hussien or kill Bin Laden then?

Deterrents can work to stop future actions happening , or to stop past actions happening again. ?

Can we not just carpet bomb caaaaaaarncil estates as a per-emptive crime prevention measure?

Actually....

*wanders off to secure funding for right-of-centre, blue-sky, Westminster think-tank*

So why did the Brits / Americans hang Saddam Hussien or kill Bin Laden then?

Good question.

I don't think anyone would consider that a deterrent. How many other potential dictators would think 'oh wait, I don't think I'm going to start a coup now'..?

Deterrents can work to stop future actions happening

They can.. but how many burglars are really weighing up prison life? Or are they just banking on not getting caught?

yeah coz Iraq has seen nothing but nothing but peace, prosperity and brotherly ****ing love since sadaam was killed

and no one would dare launch a terrorist attack in the states since they got bin laden

Can we not just carpet bomb caaaaaaarncil estates as a per-emptive crime prevention measure?

I'm in. When can we start?

The Ludovico technique's next on the cards.

[URL= http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/thedeluded/TheLudvicoTechnique.jp g" target="_blank">http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn267/thedeluded/TheLudvicoTechnique.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

I believe prisons have libraries. Take away all the TVs, they can read books. I am sure I remember reading a fact somewhere that Stephen King is the most borrowed author in US prisons.

Even if you have to watch Loose Women every day? Even the title taunts you, then ultimately fails to deliver...

Escape to the Country is probably a bit more of a letdown...

So how / what do they have to do to access it?

hels
I believe prisons have libraries...let them read books

he prison population is some 85,000. More than three-quarters of them cannot read, write or count to the standard expected of an 11-year-old.

approximately 81 per cent of prisoners screened were assessed as lacking functional literacy and 71 per cent as lacking in functional numeracy".

Have you considered a career as Home Secretary, hels?

I dare hazard a guess that I'm the only serving prison ossifer on STW & I'm reading this with much interest, & chuckles (about how little you lot actually know about 'jail')

Carry on...

[i]I am sure I remember reading a fact somewhere that Stephen King is the most borrowed author in US prisons. [/i]

I'm sure he is.

[img] [/img]

Deterrents can work to stop future actions happening , or to stop past actions happening again

2 problems
1. If deterrent is your objective then you can punish anyone to achieve the goal whether guilty or innocent as you are punishing them not for what they have done but to deter others.
2. It does not work and may even be counter productive. Might as well hang for a sheep as a lamb for example. Note also brutal regimes with draconian sentences are not crime fre

Most are in for drug related stuff, they could get an education and a basic wage job or they could sell drugs to your kids for 2k a day. The dimmest one getting caught (repeatedly) cos they is a little bit thick?

Having said that, the prisoners car park near me has a much better quality of car than the staff one, so maybe their not so daft.

Prisons aren't filled with people clearing 700 a year selling drugs to kids. They're filled with addicts, the illiterate, the mentally ill and the very occasional person who deserves to be in there.

It's no use spewing specious bollocks like "they should stop watching Sky Sports, read a book and get an education" when so many of them can't read and can't access education. You'll notice the govt hasn't increased funding for eg education, mental health or detox - things that would actually reduce recidivism.

what he said and lovely use of recidivism, a word hard to drop in to conversation but one of my favourites- some googling required for some I suspect 😉
KB talks much sense on this issue and has no jerking knee

It's no use spewing specious bollocks like "they should stop watching Sky Sports, read a book and get an education" when so many of them can't read and can't access education. You'll notice the govt hasn't increased funding for eg education, mental health or detox - things that would actually reduce recidivism

No matter how hard you try, no matter how evasive the government could get you will always get people in society who suffer from the worst of human conditions: Rage, lust, psychotic, gambling, fraudulent etc etc.

How is education ever going to solve this?

I wonder how many babies are born on estates to parents who are basically alcoholics, who drank through pregnancy- who you couldn't stop doing this as it happened to them to. ****ed in the womb, ****ed in life even before you've started. (Alcohol fetal syndrome).

Prisons will always be there and always full.

They've basically just announced what happens anyway as if it's a brand new hardline policy.

Prisons will always be there and always full.

Well we could look to the example of Norway, which has unbelievably low recidivism rates (and a much more liberal prison system). But no, let's look to America, they seem to have things well sorted.

I've been trying to get a music education project off the ground in a local prison - but they are in chaos/crisis due to funding cuts. I have the money so they wouldn't have to pay a penny but they can't even spare staff time at the moment.

If that project helped one person not to reoffend it would save it's costs many times over.....

Well I was kind of half joking re the libraries, but surely spending money on literacy programs has to make a much bigger hole in recidivism than Sky TV ?

And writing people off because they had a bad upbringing is not going to help much either.

P.S and good use of "specious" too. Clearly your mother didn't drink when pregnant.

As was pointed out above - the reason people are sat around watching TV is generally because the prison can't afford to provide enough work/education/exercise programmes. These things don't run themselves for free.

These things don't run themselves for free.

What? Not even as part of the Big Society? I'd been led to believe, by Dave himself, that this has taken care of any funding shortfalls with this type of thing!

Yeah, where are Dave's army of volunteers for this ? Make the pensioners earn that free bus pass.

esselgruntfuttock. With the benefit of your experience, how do you see prison life?

And just for some stats to back up my earlier rant:

70% of prisoners have two or more mental disorders - http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-statistics/prisons/

70% of offenders report drug misuse prior to prison; 51% report drug dependency; 35% admit injecting behaviour;
36% report heavy drinking; and 16% are alcohol dependant. A survey by the Prison Reform Trust has found that 19% of prisoners who had ever used heroin reported first using it in prison: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmhaff/184/18409.htm

80% of prisoners can't read to 11yo schoolchild level and 52% have no qualifications whatsoever: http://www.literacytrust.org.uk/assets/0000/0422/Literacy_changes_lives__prisons.pdf

Chris Huhne is in prison: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/11/chris-huhne-sentenced_n_2852459.html

KB has no jerking knee