[Closed] The Church Commissioners

You can have some red Shloer and a KitKat!

Listening to a very interesting presentation on Ramadan, now feeling bad....

@molgrips

I've bitten my tongue so far but I now think it's time to call you out on your bullying tone, which let's face it is ironic given the discussion is about religuous folk bullying others into their system. As with many believers and followers of faith, you clearly dont like challenge and resort instead to telling people they're "intellectually challenged" etc. Well done you, I hope your faith serves you well.

I think you misunderstood what molgrips (I think) is trying to say.

Not understanding the wider intellectual aspects of an argument is not the same as saying they are thick.

I guess you have to admire how successful the CofE cult became (and to an extent still is)

I’ve bitten my tongue so far but I now think it’s time to call you out on your bullying tone

I apologise if you thought I was bullying - that is not my intention at all. I am only interested in reasoned debate. I just wanted to point out where I think your argument is flawed. I think this is one of situations that suffers from being text-based rather than face to face.

However, your posts are very scathing and insulting towards believers. I don't know if this was your intention or not. If it was, I think it reasonable to expect a robust response, don't you?

And finally, I'm an atheist.

I guess you have to admire how successful the CofE cult became

This is a fascinating topic, and there is obviously so much manipulation in the history of Christianity that I can't even think of a word for it that does more than scratch the surface. However it's important to remember that this is just how people are, and it happens just as much in non-Christian regions and even in secular history. For example, you could compare the Crusades to the Cold War.

This thread is reminding me why I avoid evangelical atheists as much as I avoid people from the fundamentalist end of whichever religion they are signed up to (Conversations with people who are fundamentally convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong are pretty dull).

I’ve worked for over twenty years on historic buildings owned by various religions and flavours of those religions. Yes there have been people who I wouldn’t trust with vulnerable or impressionable people but I can probably count them on the fingers of one hand. The rest of the people I work for seem pretty much focused on making the lives of other people in their communities and the wider community better. Yes they sometimes want to explain what motivates them to do that but I have never encountered anyone who would contemplate withdrawing their help if you didn’t sign up (I’m not naive enough to say this doesn’t happen just that I have never encountered it). A significant proportion of these people work in very demanding roles with people most of society have given up on, so any edges they might have had aren’t evident.

Historically the church commissioners have been pretty hopeless so it is good to know they seem to be recouping some of the historic losses (I’m sure someone on here will tell me different but from what I can gather their more recent investments have been made on an ethical basis, although some of their older holdings are a bit more variable).

I can’t remember the exact figures but the CofE are responsible for 85% of the Grade I and II* listed buildings in the country. Maintaining these buildings Historically many of these fulfilled a far more secular roll than they have in the last couple of hundred years (The chancel and any side chapels were the only exclusively ‘holy’ bits while the rest of the building was used by the community for everything from celebrations to schools and sometimes the local court). Many churches are trying to return to this balance (by fulfilling a secondary community use such as village shops, libraries, village hall etc) but are hampered by the attitudes of various conservation bodies, by people who can’t see beyond what we now see as the proper use of a church (These concerns are usually of a conservative rather than a religious nature), and by a lack of funding available for maintenance or changes. From experience if there is a community need most religions seem very good at putting aside differences, talking to each other, and getting on with solving a problem. The perceived problems often come from secular bodies who expect people to be offended by the symbols of the religions involved.

The only organisation which probably did need to make changes were tackled very effectively by the charities commission who suggested that, as one of their stated purposes was to prepare people for the day of judgement in the year 2000, they might want to re-focus their charitable focus on research and education, which they did (They now run a small museum and fund research grants for university students).

The chancel and any side chapels were the only exclusively ‘holy’ bits while the rest of the building was used by the community for everything from celebrations to schools and sometimes the local court

This is a fact that can, at times, be quite moving. When the Maidan protests erupted in Ukraine, the churches in the middle of the city opened up to become field hospitals.