[Closed] The Beatles..

Anyway, which are your favourite tunes

Come together.

It appeals to my surrealist nature.

Strangely, their other , probably more surrealist tracks,  leave me  a bit  cold. I not a big fan of eggmen or marmalade skies it seems.

She said, she said I love. I think Lennon ends up just mocking her in the lyrics for her bullshit.

If I Needed Someone for it's sound too.

Watched "Fry am the eggman" last night. 😉

wearing her face that she keeps in a jar by the door

Make up (rouge probably).

Revolver and Forever Changes are two albums I will never tire of.

Must admit, I'm a sucker for their sentimental, melodic stuff.

[url= https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ePaHG6g7uFw ]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ePaHG6g7uFw[/url]

“Wearing a face that she keeps in a jar by the door”

I read this as her public face that people see when she is out, but once the door is closed she is just another one of the lonely people.

Jesus! Just dawned on me that Revolver is 53yrs old. I can remember it being released. 🙁

Edit: Off to play it now followed by Forever Changes and the Notorious Byrds Brothers.

Can you believe he was 24 when he wrote this? Such a beautiful poignant and melancholy song

Indeed. Most people at 24 don't even notice the lonely people let alone wonder where they come from. He also wrote the heart wrenching "She's Leaving Home" around the same time.

Incredible that he then went on the give us such gems as The Frog Chorus

My other Beatles faves are

A Day in the Life
Strawberry Fields
She's Leaving Home
I Am the Walrus
Across the Universe
The Long and Winding Road
Something
And I Love Her
While My Guitar Gently Weeps

Couldn't pick a favourite song, but the White Album and Sgt. Peppers contain their best stuff for me. They invented heavy rock on The White Album!

(Will easily ignore any dismissers as clueless ignoramouses who do not understand the historical importance of The Beatles 😀 )

(As for Revolver - I mean Tomorrow Never Knows.. how ahead of it's time?!)

They invented heavy rock on The White Album!

Hmm, there were heavy rock bands around before that. But yes, Yer Blues is brilliant.

Can you believe he was 24 when he wrote this?

Yes... at 24 he is positively ancient compared to some....

Stevie Wonder wrote fingertips at 12 years old!
Paul Weller wrote In The City and This Is The Modern World while still in his teens
Alex Turner was 19 when he wrote Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I`m Not
Amy Winehouse recorded Frank before she turned 20
Lorde wrote Royals at 17

That's a quick list from a short google search. I guess my point is, song writers produce their best stuff while they are young and the world is their oyster. Once they reach their thirties (if they get that far (27 club)) they have accepted life as it is, the fire in the belly has quit and once they settle down and get married its over.

What do you think he means with ‘wearing her face that she keeps in a jar by the door’?

As Harry_the_Spider said, when she goes out, she puts on a public face to hide the reality of her private life. When she gets home again, she drops the pretense.

Hmm, there were heavy rock bands around before that. But yes, Yer Blues is brilliant

Alright then: punk! Helter Skelter. What a piece of utter genius.

Big feature on the Beatles in this month's Classic Rock mag.( Abbey Road Album )
I grew up listening to them through my mam..she saw them in Newcastle ..the Hard Days Night Album is among the first of my musical memories ..

Try the book, Revolution in the Head by Ian MacDonald.

Entire Beatles catalogue with notes on recording, lyrics and other stuff. Fascinating.

wearing her face that she keeps in a jar by the door

I take that line to mean that when she is at home she becomes herself but wears a 'mask' outside to be what other people expect her to be. (Edit - I notice others think the same as me).

But the best song by them is A Day In The Life - I sat my 10 yr olds down to listen to it just last weekend.

Best lyrics have to be from Taxman.

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat
If you get too cold, I'll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet

Stevie Wonder wrote fingertips at 12 years old!
Paul Weller wrote In The City and This Is The Modern World while still in his teens
Alex Turner was 19 when he wrote Whatever People Say I Am, That’s What I`m Not
Amy Winehouse recorded Frank before she turned 20
Lorde wrote Royals at 17

Kate Bush writing this at 13 has to be up there...

Buddy Holly died at the age of 22, the Crickets inspired the Beatles name

Showing my age here but I saw the Beatles in 1963 at the Gaumont in Bradford. Not well known back then although we had heard 'Love me do' on Radio Luxembourg. Helen Shapiro was top billing with the Beatles bottom of the list! Different story in 1964 when they returned. The screaming girls almost drowned out the sound.

The Beatles did everything they ever did before they were thirty. Amazing!

It's also interesting how many of people's fave songs are George Harrison's

Some of the works that Mozart wrote when he was 5:

Best lyrics from Taxman? Yes, it's always good to hear a multi-millionaire tell us how badly done to they are.

I'm not really a fan of The Beatles, but I really do like Eleanor Rigby. Apart from that I only like the ones that sound a bit Motown-y.

Some of the works that Mozart wrote when he was 5:

Yeah, but I bet he couldn't play it very fast when he was 5.

I am going to be a dissenter here. Ok a few songs with a little social observation in them and a few acid inspired bits but taken as a whole - derivative trite pop music mainly copied from others - and often direct copies.

On the other hand, compared to what was already around they were pretty amazing.

I would agree with you there slowoldman..however although they have a rightful place in history as being one of the catalysts for rock & pop music as we know it ..I just can't remember the last time I purposely listened to anything by them ..

I cover a few Beatles songs because if you pick up a guitar the first things people ask you if you can play are the Beatles. I used to find it irritating but must have mellowed with age. I still refuse point blank to go anywhere near Hey Jude which is one of the few songs by any artist I simply detest. So this busker's selection:

Here comes the sun
Hard day's night
Norwegian wood
You've got to hide your love away
When I'm 64 (on bass rather than guitar)

I can accompany a few more but those are the ones I can remember all the words to.

On the other hand, compared to what was already around they were pretty amazing.

You mean in UK pop music. Plenty of good stuff from the states - souls, Blues etc - most of which the beetles stole!

I am going to be a dissenter here. Ok a few songs with a little social observation in them and a few acid inspired bits but taken as a whole – derivative trite pop music mainly copied from others – and often direct copies.

Um... no. I'm not even a massive fan of The Beatles, but I do know, from studying music over the years and working in the industry, that almost all of what you say there is nonsense.

I'd do a little bit more reading about them before you make daft statements like the one above. From almost every viewpoint they were innovators. I can think of countless examples of instrumentation, use of the studio as an instrument in itself, and songwriting itself, where they were leagues above anyone else.

Let me quote from Howard Goodall:

'From a standing start, knowing only a handful of chords between them, John Lennon and Paul McCartney turned themselves into the most influential composers of the late twentieth century. Their music wasn’t just immensely popular. It also proved that traditional western harmony – the main building block of European music – still had plenty to offer. (Even though avant-garde composers had turned their back on it.) By mixing pop and classical techniques, and cross-fertilising them with Indian, and electronic music, The Beatles refreshed and revitalised western harmony. They also transformed the recording studio from a dull box where you recaptured your live sound, into a musical laboratory, of exciting and completely new sounds. This was one of the most crucial advances in the way popular music was to be produced.'

Do I really need to say any more, or are you just trolling?

JP

Their songs are fun as well, their back catalogue has such variety of tunes and topics.

Their songwriting talent is first rate.

^ this

Early stuff was very catchy and tuneful and I loved it when I was younger but over the years I now find it a bit '<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">two minute and throwaway'</span>

Later stuff, with looped tapes and playback, etc .... fabulous

Yeah I remember school holidays as a teenager in the seventies listening to revolver and the white album on vinyl over and over again, fantastic music. The innovative music of the seventies was built on the Beatles later studio work. I do agree that in the sixties the stones and cream etc were more sexy bands to listen to but they all built on what the Beatles were doing. I’m a fan even though I rank the Floyd above them I reckon the Beatles were key to every band that came after them.

jjp

You clearly know a lot more about music than I do

Trite is my opinion - thats all it is - an opinion

Derivative_ sounds like it to me. I am sure I read as well that they took large bits out of US music of the time.

Influential - of course. The first clean cut white boys to be recording like this and especially after the acid created a creative space that others moved into.

I do agree that in the sixties the stones and cream etc were more sexy bands to listen to

...especially if you were George Harrison’s wife.

Pretty much all popular music is derivative to some degree or other. The US innovators of rock 'n' roll took rhythms and riffs from blues/gospel/folk.

The first clean cut white boys to be recording like this.

Apart from Buddy Holly, and Elvis, of course.

Martin - I should have said British perhaps 😉

JJP
Harmonies? The california surf music - one example

An alternative take

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/may/06/beatles-did-not-revolutionise-music-study-claims

Even someone detracting from this analysis states

Brocken accepts that in many ways the Beatles were not pioneers of the musical styles they played, but believes this fails to diminish the group’s standing in the pop canon. “Most decent popular music researchers would probably agree that the Beatles were not so much innovators as musical magpies – and that’s not a criticism. They, like all of us, listened to all sorts of stuff and were duly inspired,” he said.

At the end of the day a lot of this is opinion not fact.

and songwriting itself, where they were leagues above anyone else.

both released in august 63

as a songwriter who's in the different league again ? Btw I'm not a fan of either

Martin – I should have said British perhaps 😉

Yeah Dylan was way ahead of his time, I don’t think you can discount the Beatles for She loves you, Love me Do etc. That was part of their development. Remember Dylan used to play House of The Rising Sun until he was accused of ripping off the Animals. The Beatles post Help were way ahead of their time and laid the foundations for the late sixties/ seventies popular music explosion. They all built on each other. The Beach Boys built on what the Beatles had done then the Beatles moved it on a bit then the Floyd, Zeppelin and on to the zenith of the Birdie Song.

(As for Revolver – I mean Tomorrow Never Knows.. how ahead of it’s time?!)

I never tire of listening to that song.

I’m with Tj here, essentially The Beatles were Coldplay of the 60’s. Which is fine if that’s your thing. imho obviously.

Imagine a band turning up in 2012 and by 2019 achieving what the Beatles did.

Their productivity and innovation in such a short space of time is mind blowing.

tjagain

Member
I am going to be a dissenter here. Ok a few songs with a little social observation in them and a few acid inspired bits but taken as a whole – derivative trite pop music mainly copied from others – and often direct copies.

All music is derivative, TJ! 😆 without lineage and influence, there is no music all the way back to the middle ages.. The beatles took their influences, which were many, and ran with them to make something awesome.

I think you can basically say everything up to the Help album was them largely learning their trade, from an including Help, they took things to a whole knew level, imo.

She's leaving home literally makes me cry. It really ruins that album for me I cant listen to it, breaks my heart as the father of a daughter.

For No-One with that immortal line 'you won't forget her' is brilliant and timeless

Maxwells silver hammer?

Maxwells silver hammer?

Ooof. That was a low blow.

Wasn’t Frank Zappa doing experimental studio stuff before the Beatles? They were just more popular so a wider audience were exposed to it. I like a lot of the Beatles stuff, but there were other bands around too. Just seems like they get all the credit to the detriment of others. Only my opinion of course.

I like within you without you, I find I very calming.

I love pretty much everything they ever recorded in varying degrees but a lot of my friends say they are vastly overrated. I like that, taste is individual.

Not particularly a fan though my word they had a few good songs. Just posting to say that their early stuff was just as good as their later stuff. Thomas Mann, the Times' music critic famously said they were the best wongwriters since Schubert at the end of '63. And a bunch of stuff about Aeolian cadencies:
https://www.beatlesbible.com/1963/12/27/the-times-what-songs-the-beatles-sang-by-william-mann/ Just saying that there was a fair degree of sophistication at this point, and more than meets the ear.

And mainly, again as a non-fan, it's worth saying what incredible singers and players they were as a a band. Tight as you like but really swung too (again on the earlier stuff), and blimey they could sing. Not many bands like that. Apart from the Bootleg Beatles, obviously. And the arctic monkeys. In fact this thread's gone a long way with no one mentioning Oasish.

tjagain

Member
Maxwells silver hammer?

great tune

Went to watch a man play with his big organ at the Kelvingrove last Saturday.
Hey Jude went down very well,he pulled out all most of the stops.Some of us even sang along .

but taken as a whole – derivative trite pop music mainly copied from others – and often direct copies.

I find the arguments about the Beatles quite interesting. Whether you "like" the music is just taste, that's really neither here nor there. But to call the music trite is overly critical I think. I don't think I know any musician (and any one with any knowledge or appreciation of composition really) who thinks the music is trite. Lennon and McCartney's song writing skills are up there with the very best. Yes there are better lyricists; someone posted a link to a Bob Dylan track earlier and clearly the man's an absolute genius poet, but his music is pretty basic 4 beat rock and roll/blues and has been from the get go, and remains pretty much unchanged. Look at any Beatles track though, and you can find really complex composition at work; Dom5th chord progressions, even secondary dominants, they have songs with minor and major 7th progressions, you name it, they try it.  They don't do this by accident. Whether its' simple stuff like Day Tripper or more complex orchestral stuff they did later on, their song writing skills are bloody incredible. I know it all sounds simple and straighforwards, and you can look at their early stuff and say "It's just 12 bar blues" but it's the progressions they make, the chords they choose that make the Beatles stuff stand out. It sounds so normal to us now, because every one looks at how Paul and John and George did it and pretty much just copies it. They took "pop" music and ran with it, they weren't just streets ahead, they were whole towns ahead of what anyone else was doing at the time.  Someone earlier called all music derivative, and largely that's true, in western music at least. But to take a Bach Bourree Lute piece that most of us learned as a showy off piece for grades and turn that into Blackbird, and then record it with just an acoustic guitar and a foot tapping...That's not "trite"

^^^^ I do like it when someone can write something with a clear and deep understanding of a subject to counter simplistic comment by others 🙂

Other groups had already done or were doing all that, Nick. The difference was that the Beatles could add excellent vocal harmonies and had a gift for the perfect commercial pop song. Let's face it, Dylan's songs usually sound better covered by someone else.

When you talk about fancy chords, to a guitarist they aren't particularly fancy. The Hard Day's Night sound comes form leaving a finger on third fret high e for most of the song. The major 7th stuff is really easy to play (I assume we're talking about "I saw her standing there") as you are moving pretty much the same postion around the fret board. And they were the chords and sounds of the time - Guitar Boogie by Chuck is another song in major 7th but takes months or years rather than days to learn to play.

Which brings me to another point. The orignal Jonhny B Goode is 170bpm, Jailhouse Rock is stupid fast. Rock and Roll had been fast frantic and a bit anti-social; the Beatles slowed it down, rounded the corners and made it easier on the ears to broaden the appeal.

And they had the press, radio and TV on their side. At four I was allowed to stay up late to watch the Beatles. There was so much hype that even my musically indifferent parents were dragged into it. The music was good enough, the look right, the voices great and marketing perfect.

Wasn’t Frank Zappa doing experimental studio stuff before the Beatles?

both released in august 63

as a songwriter who’s in the different league again ? Btw I’m not a fan of either

The Beatles worshipped Dylan. Dylan famously introduced them to weed for allegedly the first time. Lennon even resorted to wearing his black cap for a year or two afterwards.

I love them both.

Alright then: punk! Helter Skelter. What a piece of utter genius.

Love it. I think the story behind that was that the buzz at the time was that The Who had recorded a tune with a massive amount of feedback and they were all desperate to hear it.

The tune was 'I can See for Miles' and when McCartney finally heard it he said something along the lines of 'that's not a lot of feedback' and so he decided to do something that really had a lot of feedback

‘I can See for Miles’

Which, iirc, was strongly influenced by The Kinks.

Just listened to Rubber Soul - Pet Sounds - Revolver. Lovely progression.

The Jam went from Art School to Ghosts in 5 years.

Innovation?

Eddie Cochran was doing overdubs before the beatles I believe. Beach boys were using complex harmonies before the beatles, Bob Marley and Lee scratch perry were bringing sophistication and innovative studio effects to Reggae in the early 60s

The beatles IMO where much more synthesis that innovators - pulling the best bits out of the music they heard and putting it all together in a nice easily accessible non threatening package.

Tj talking shit, who'd a thunk it. ;D

I’m with Tj here, essentially The Beatles were Coldplay of the 60’s.

Er, no. They were never that depressing.

Dylan’s songs usually sound better covered by someone else.

Burn him!

That Zappa video was great, thanks.

Not a fan... I've tried but I bounce off really hard, I think maybe more so because I know I "ought to" like it...

But most of my favourite bands will quote them as a reference and inspiration and so for that I'm massively grateful. You don't need to like a band for them to be important to you, I reckon. I saw Frank Iero, the guitarist from My Chemical Romance, cover Helter Skelter to an audience of mostly teenagers and they all lost their shit, that's pretty awesome, it came out more than a decade before he was born, and it was blowing away an audience that were in nappies when his previous band got massive, that's your grandad's punk rock kids. So here's to the Beatles

(same also goes for the Replacements and Husker Du and half the other bands in 29 x The Pain), the Pixies, Sabbath...)

Edit: Off to play it now followed by Forever Changes and the Notorious Byrds Brothers.

Three of my absolute favourites.

Favourite Beatles tracks right now.

- Blackbird

- Getting Better

- What Goes On

- Hey Bulldog

- Rain

- Tomorrow Never Knows

- Taxman

- Norwegian Wood

- We Can Work It Out

- Money (Cover)

- You Really Got A Hold On Me (Cover)

Dylan was a genius at making a lucrative business out of protest songs.

TJ, The Beatles did absorb a lot of influences for sure but their influence around harmonies were different from and not tally dependant on The Beach Boys.  Both were influenced by each other - but that was comparatively later on...

The Beatles were also fantastic at using influences that very few if any other R&B/Rock & Roll bands did e.g. modal music.

Howard Goodall did a few great programmes about The Beatles.  Well worth watching and incredibly informative.

I quite agree with you. Its others above that tried to say they were innovative. they simply were not.

What they were great at was taking others innovations and melding them into something sounding good.

The harmonies was simply an example. someone above stated they were innovative in using them. I pointed out its a straight steal from the california surf music which predates the beatles

The first stadium gig.
The first concept album.
The first music 'video'.
The first to print lyrics on the sleeve.
The first to stop touring and concentrate on recording.

Saying you don't like the Beatles is an affectation.
Everyone likes the Beatles, you've just not accepted it yet. 🙂

The first to print lyrics on the sleeve.

Nope, hundreds before them.

The first stadium gig.

Nope, Elvis did them years before.

The first music ‘video’.

I don't know how you define videao but again hundreds before the Beatles on any reasonable criteria.

The first concept album.

Define a concept album and using those criteria I suggest you'll find they were around years before the Beatles

The first to stop touring and concentrate on recording.

Firstly they never did stop touring as individually they toured for years and two of them still do, secondly "the first" no way.

You're right about Elvis, and possibly you could say The Wee Small Hours is a concept album, but they stopped touring as The Beatles. 🙂

And I'm right about the lyrics though......

My grandmother had 78s with lyrics.

Is it an album? 🙂

My mum told me a story about when my dad came home with tickets to the Beatles before they were mega famous. She said 'I'm not seeing a band named after an insect!' and they didn't go - she still has a bit of regret many years later.