[Closed] The alleged hacking of Millie Dowler's phone

this, is going to be good.

Wade, is toast.

Wade, is toast.

Don't worry, theres always a job at the Daily Star for former NOTW staff that have been convicted and jailed for phone hacking

Bad enough listening to the messages but deleting some of them so they could listen to more, thus giving false hope to the parents - utterly despicable.

jeebus the daily mail is going to have a freakout
wonder if the other murdoch papers will even mention it

was callmedaves ex-spokesman editor at the time?
and still the bskyb deal is gonna go through....

edit oh it was rebekah wade, just camerons close friend and riding budy!
either way i imagine her best hope is that murdoch has some kind of seizure before he fires her

Seems what interests most is who is or who isn't going to lose his or her job. Which is a bit sad really. Everyone should be a little ashamed that something like this happened in our country, especially those who worked for the paper at the time and those who continue to buy it now.

shocking, yes.

immoral, yes.

unethical, yes.

surprising, no.

these guys are always looking for an edge, the NOTW found one and were exploiting it. They got carried away. I find it disgusting, but I doubt the ramifications were even contemplated at the time.

It's a damn shame the readers of that shite won't just boycott it. But they probably think boycott is an old cricketer.
Joking aside, I hope someone gets jail time for it. Scum.

i think it just goes to show how commonplace it must have been at the paper for anyone to even consider doing this

When you think how long ago this was - 2002. It can't then have been the first time NOTW did this. You have to start thinking how many cases they've pryed into before then and since.

A free press. Brilliant.

Apart from the illegality of phone hacking, presumably deleting the messages amounts to tampering with possible evidence in a murder enquiry ? Surely that [i]has to[/i] warrant a prison sentence ?

Bear in mind that the Murdoch consultation doesn't finish till Friday. Still time to object.

What they're not being very clear about, is when the police became aware of this - I'm getting the impression from whats's [u]not[/u] being said, that they were aware during the initial investigation years ago, but didn't make an issue of it at the time...

jeebus the daily mail is going to have a freakout

Nope. They are focusing on Wills, Kate and Cheryl. The things that matter.

None of the tabloids are running the story on their front pages. See [url= http://twitpic.com/photos/suttonnick ]here[/url]

It sounds like tabloid editors are closing ranks.

I doubt Wade (or Coulson) will be affected. It will turn out to be the work of 'one journalist acting on their own'.

Aye not good for Rupert but even for them a shocking low.
I doubt he personally knew - I doubt he would personally car as well
Wade was there as was Coulson at the time editor and deputy.
I cant see dave getting all principled now.

i also wonder how the police failed to notice any of those with the previous investigation. I find it hard to believe there was not corruption or collusion there as well.

Deleting the messages [ to hear more calls ] giving the family false hope [ did a NOTW exclsuive interview as well] is a seriously scummy thing to do and that person deserves the public stocks tbh.

I'm getting the impression from whats's notm, being said, that they were aware during the initial investigation years ago, but didn't make an issue of it at the time...

The Guardian story gave the impression there was a lot of dodgy stuff going on. But the Police were focussing (rightly) on finding the missing girl rather that the borderline illegal journalists. The story gave the impression that journalists impeding these sort of investigations was commonplace.

It sounds like tabloid editors are closing ranks.

indeed it seems that it was common at all the tabloids
considering how they jumped all over the milly dowler story at the time milking it for all the copy it was worth its shameful that they wont talk about this

sadly i suspect you are correct- wade, coulson and all the seniors involved will get away with it scot free, wade even admitted paying bribes to coppers to a commons committee (more or less)

it sucks but life aint a free ride.. how many times do you think the press can find develop leads that Dixon of dock green cant.. the meeja are happily used by DODG publicly and less publicly as well

Coulson was in it up to his neck - thats why he quit. Murdochs man on the inside.

Whats interesting and disturbing is the cosy links between the NOTW and the Met. NOTW also has good instigative journalist and does expose wrong ding - and it appear that there was leaks from NOTW to the met and back again. When the phone hacking came to light the met went easy on them. Thats why its only coming out in dribs and drabs and I doubt we will ever see the bottom of this murky pool

I find it hard to believe there was not corruption or collusion there as well.

Oh come on, Rupert Murdoch has the power to directly influence the policies of British Prime Ministers. All PMs must show their servitude to Murdoch - they all "consult" him. It would be a very brave PM that takes Murdoch on - we haven't had one yet. The Prime Minister/Home Sec. would take a very dim view of any Chief Constable whose force had given Murdoch a hard time.

I was using legalese as I thought I could defend what I believe much easier if challenged 8)
Would not want to libel them now would I.

The Daily Mail are now running a story on this, I'd link, but I can't be bothered and Google exists.

It'll be interesting to see whether this scuppers Murcoch's attempt to gain full control over B Sky B.

It defies human decency that people still buy the rag and will, in all likelihood, do so even though they are funding corpse-looting scum (they can try and pin it on Wade but that's clearly an individual being offered up whilst the amulance-chasing - and invading - culture remains).

An all time low in 'journalism'. The family have been through far too much, with the actual events, the shocking court case and now some complete scum has done this.

Boycott the papers, cancel your sky subscription.

Boycott the papers, cancel your sky subscription.

+1

Sadly people will continue to pay their Sky subs, buy the Sun/NoTW/Times/whatever and keep the News Corp juggernaut rolling along.

I wonder about the wider ramifications of this. If journos were able to do this, with some kind of police knowledge it makes me wonder what other kinds of scutiny exist, and who uses them.

the way this has been handled by the met is the real scandal. If Green Peace were caught hacking into the emails/mobiles of BNFL execs would there have been this softly softly approach, No. There would have been 50 uniformed officers raiding their premises @ 5 in the morning removing every computer and file. Handcuffed staff being frog marched out the premises (probably having their faces shoved into the lenses of NOTW photographers).

Wade was big mates with the last Cheif Constable of the Met.

Which I'm sure had nothing to do with the diligence of the investigation.

as our pm is way too deep in murdochs crevice, imagine if milliband actually grew a pair and tried to take on murdoch, the tabloids and it seems the met........

........hed get destroyed i suspect!

Boycott the papers, cancel your sky subscription.

Sadly people will continue to pay their Sky subs, buy the Sun/NoTW/Times/whatever and keep the News Corp juggernaut rolling along.

Hooray for the Great British apathy !!

😕

hed get destroyed i suspect!

And therein lies a big ****-off problem don't you think! They're all too bloody scared to have a go. A decent opposition leader would wipe the floor with Cameron on Wednesday over this.

It's scandalous - [i]allegedly[/i] Colin Stagg was also targeted (years after his acquittal), as, [i]allegedly[/i], was one of the parents of the Soham girls Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells too.

Hooray for the Great British apathy

And would you stop going to the cinema in case it's a 20th Century Fox production?

Thought not.

One question that springs immediately to mind is where did the NOTW get hold of Millie Dowler (and now it seems, her parents) phone numbers? Where did they happen upon John Prescotts number (who happened to be deputy PM at the time?

I'm going out on a limb here, but could they possibly have been getting them from sources within the met?

No wonder they were dragging their feet for so long. The relationship with News International seems like a far-too-cosy two way street. I think there's still plenty to come on this story.

Here's my wild speculative guess as to what happens next: We find out about a lot more hacking of suspects and victims alike, in high profile criminal cases. The we finally hear, after call-me-Dave has to reluctantly abandon his tacit support for NI executives, that senior Met officers were essentially on the payrole of NI editors. Receiving cash and favourable coverage in return for tip offs/phone numbers/access and, of course, a blind eye being turned to their loathsome and illegal activities.

Just a guess

You cynic 🙂

Evidence is being destroyed now, we'll never get to hear the full extent of what's gone on.

i dont ever read red tops, nasty scumbags in my view

List of the email addresses for the CEO's of companies advertising in the NOW;

[url= http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PBJRCE9X ]http://www.megaupload.com/?d=PBJRCE9X[/url]

a 'tweet this' link with @... things for a number of NoW advertisers.

[url= http://www.pint.org.uk/notw.html ]http://www.pint.org.uk/notw.html[/url]
I don't buy the NoW or any other Murdoch owned media but I think I can still hit them financially by targetting organisations that spend money with them.

If you look up the Fox News/Glen Beck campaign people targetted advertisers and it worked.

where did the NOTW get hold of Millie Dowler (and now it seems, her parents) phone numbers? Where did they happen upon John Prescotts number (who happened to be deputy PM at the time?

I'm going out on a limb here, but could they possibly have been getting them from sources within the met?

Why would the Met have John Prescotts number? Or Sienna Miller's Number? Or Andy Gray's Number, or any of the hacking case numbers?. The press have people inside the telecoms co's, ISPs, Banks, DVLA and the HMRC. Anything they want to know they know.

Ok. I'll put it a different way. Given the utterly barmy paranoia over the last ten years about terrorism etc, are you telling me that no-one knew that Senior members of the government were regularly having their phones hacked? Really?

And we need to separate out the celebrity horse-shit (at the end of the day, who gives a **** who Jude Law is nobbing?) from the actual important stuff. ie: what's come out yesterday, and the questions raised about democratic accountability when members of the government are having their private communications monitored, and yet incredibly, [b]still[/b] no party leader is prepared to stand up and denounce NI. It stinks to high heaven!

if milliband actually grew a pair.......hed get destroyed i suspect!

Not necessarily. Murdoch's only weapon is his ability to manipulate public opinion (although it's grossly overstated imo) right now his standing in the eyes of the public, [i]including[/i] NoW readers, must be at an all time low, which puts him at a serious disadvantage - that situation should be fully exploited for as long as possible.

Secondly Labour leaders need to stop obediently sticking to the agenda set by the tabloids and have the conviction to put the case for policies which are right. Saying "we're just like the Tories only nicer" is a hugely weak position to be in and makes them highly vulnerable. Robbing the tabloids of their ability to set the agenda and setting it themselves, would massively reduce the power of the tabloids in favour of Labour.

Finally there is no reason why an incoming Labour government can't through legislation force the breakup and sell-off of Murdoch's media empire in the UK. If former Knightsbridge owner Mohamed al-Fayed can quite legally be denied the right to British nationality on the grounds that he isn't of "good character", then I see no reason why Murdoch can't be denied the right to the ownership of substantial chunks of Britain's media on the grounds that he isn't a fit and proper person.

It should be remembered that every time Labour has won a general election it has done so despite overwhelming opposition from the Tory press - it's about time they stopped placing so much importance on winning their approval. Meekly accepting the agenda set by the press might the easy lazy solution, and arguing for an alternative might be difficult and challenging, but that's what will pull the rug from under the Tory press and diminish their power. Labour leaders need to leave being Tory to the Tories.

are you telling me that no-one knew that Senior members of the government were regularly having their phones hacked? Really?

But the press don't need anyone's help, they have access to anyones information as and when they want it. Yours included - if they want it.

Ernie - I thought the Murdoch press supported Blair in 97?

Have you noticed this story has totally disappeared from the BBC website?

Hooray for the Great British apathy

And would you stop going to the cinema in case it's a 20th Century Fox production?

Thought not.

The British are world leaders in complaining about stuff but when it comes down to it never actually bothering to do anything about it!

"yeh, boo, the phone hacking is terrible! etc etc, boycott the Murdoch empire!... oh wait, that would mean missing my favourite tv series... and there's a great documentary I've sky+'d that I've not watched yet... and then there's the hassle of changing providers... um, oh, I can't be bothered..."

Ernie - I thought the Murdoch press supported Blair in 97?

Well the Sun certainly did (not sure about the Times which unlike the Sun, Murdoch has a much more hands off approach) hence my comment : [i]"every time Labour has won a general election it has done so despite overwhelming opposition from the Tory press"[/i], I didn't mention "complete opposition".

Although many have argued that Murdoch only allowed the Sun to support Labour in '97 because a Labour victory was a certainty and the Sun doesn't like backing losers, plus it would have served no useful purpose not to. And of course it left Blair somewhat "indebted" to Murdoch.

Which gets back to my point that Murdoch's ability to manipulate public opinion is [i]"grossly overstated imo"[/i]. It's undoubtedly real, but overstated.

maccruiskeen - your missing the point. I'm aware their are infinite ways of finding out information readily about anyone. I'm suggesting that given the security (all put down to terrorism etc) that if a number of cabinet ministers were having their phones hacked, the perpetrator wouldn't be doing so with impunity, without the collusion of someone on the inside.

Hence my suggestion that some officers in the Met are probably bricking it about what's going to come out in the wash. And why they were so reluctant to investigate in the first place

I'm going out on a limb here, but could they possibly have been getting them from sources within the met?

**** me here we go again with yet another conspiracy theory which will turn out to have absolutely no foundation. I notice that all the people knocking the met over the G20 case have overlooked to admit they were entirely wrong in respect of all the accusations of cover up. No doubt the same will be true here.

The Milly Dowler situation has only now come to light becuase prior to the Levi Bellfield trial it could have jeapordised the case. Its that simple.

Regarding obtaining numbers, anyone missed the potential and vastly more realsitic source of information that is O2/Orange/Vodafone/ etc etc where £20 will buy you a lote more than it might once have done at Scotland Yard?

FFS get a grip

I notice that all the people knocking the met over the G20 case have overlooked to admit they were entirely wrong in respect of all the accusations of cover up

Eh ? 😕 The Met lied. The only reason the truth came out was because someone produced a very damning footage of film which completely undermined what the Met had said.

Spot on ernie.

Have you noticed this story has totally disappeared from the BBC website?

It's the top headline on the BBC news site at the moment

So what you're saying BB is that any old ****er can slip someone at Orange twenty quid and get the number of the deputy PM and then tap straight into their phone. Without anyone in the security services being aware of that? For Year after year?

Yeah, right. Its hardly a conspiracy theory to suggest that that isn't a very believable scenario.

I'm sorry, but the attitude of the met to this investigation from the off speaks volumes. They were dragged kicking and screaming into doing anything at all about this

I'm ex-BT and we used to have to do training courses about dealing with approaches for info from outside organisations.

£20 is probably understating it, but I imagine there are people whose heads would be turned by a 4 or 5 figure sum who have access to sensitive data.

Well if that's the case, then that in itself raises another set of questions altogether. That a quick back-hander can potentially get you access to the phones of the people running the country. And that they'll be blissfully unaware that they're being listened in on. Probably not a healthy state of affairs

This was only to the voicemail messages - not to the actualy phone conversations.

Wikipedia appears to be a part of the battlefield;

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebekah_Brooks ]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebekah_Brooks[/url]

[i]Rebekah Brooks (née Wade, born 27 May 1968) is an evil whore, vile scumbag and sycophantic employee of the corrupt Rupert Murdoch[/i]

This was only to the voicemail messages - not to the actualy phone conversations.

Oh that's OK then

I thought the voicemail hacking simply required you to get the mobile number and use the remote access system with the assumption that the passcode was left on default or with a simple code (0000 or 1234 etc) because most people dont use the remote access feature.

Miliband has just called for a public enquiry. Brave Ed 🙄 (about ****ing time Ed)

berm bandit, you do know that wade admitted that her paper regularly paid met officers for information........

is this a healthy relationship to have with the gutter press?
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/23/news-of-the-world-met-dinners ]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/23/news-of-the-world-met-dinners[/url]

but im sure that they will be cleared of all wrongdoing

im also sure brooks will get off just fine murdochs even supporting her still, but then she is a family friend of the camerons

Oh Goody. We can look forward to him repeating it all day in

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/03/charlie-brooker-stop-ed-miliband ]The Ed Milliband Loop[/url]

It sounds like an interview with a satnav stuck on a roundabout. Or a novelty talking keyring with its most boring button held down. Or a character in a computer game with only one dialogue option. Or an Ed Miliband-shaped phone with an Ed Miliband-themed ringtone.

I thought the voicemail hacking simply required you to get the mobile number and use the remote access system with the assumption that the passcode was left on default or with a simple code (0000 or 1234 etc) because most people dont use the remote access feature.

Indeed. Even the BBC needs a kick up the backside about repeatedly using the tabloid-headline-esque references to "phone hacking".

In terms of politicians etc, I can't help thinking that we should be as (if not more) worried about the possibility that they were conducting the affairs of government / the country via a series of voicemail messages - particularly if they hadn't even bothered to change the default PIN. Presumably in most cases they weren't, but that's not going to stop them getting all indignant about their number(s) appearing on the NOTW list 😉

"Hi John. I know you're probably busy boffing your secretary. Or punching Welsh blokes. Or turning motorways into bus stops. Or whatever it is you do. And I know I don't bother consulting you about any of this shit anyway. But just to let you know I've decided to invade Iraq. You'll be able to read about it in the papers in the mornng anyway"

"Hi John. I know you're probably busy boffing your secretary. Or punching Welsh blokes. Or turning motorways into bus stops. Or whatever it is you do. And I know I don't bother consulting you about any of this shit anyway. But just to let you know I've decided to invade Iraq. You'll be able to read about it in the papers in the mornng anyway"

😀

Well if that's the case, then that in itself raises another set of questions altogether.

I'll take that as acceptance of my point then.

berm bandit, you do know that wade admitted that her paper regularly paid met officers for information........

I don't doubt it for a moment, but then I don't expect public servants to have higher moral standards than anyone else. However that is not the point. What binners is doing is suggesting that there is a conspiracy on the part of the Met here. I am merely suggesting that that is utter ballcocks, if for no other reason because they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery let alone a decent conspiracy.

The only reason the truth came out was because someone produced a very damning footage of film which completely undermined what the Met had said.

I think you will find that the reason it came out was actually the full and thorough investigation by the IPCC, and the discarding of the evidence given by Freddie Patel intially, which left no case to answer, except via internal dicipline (which incidentally was suspended while formal investigations were being carried out). Once the legal process was completed they then lamped the guy and quite rightly so too. But you believe whatever you care to make up to feed your own predjudices.

I belkeive there was clear collusion between the Met and the NOTW

Simply a case of "go easy on our friends" a lot of two way traffic between them and professional friendships. Its very obvious the original investigation was not as rigorous as it should have been and the Met told lies about this

BB - the very fact that Freddy Patel was given the PM to do is a part of the attempted cover up.

Well if that's the case, then that in itself raises another set of questions altogether.

I'll take that as acceptance of my point then.

That's very presumptuous of you. Not to say, inaccurate.

I'm not suggesting any kind of conspiracy. I'm suggesting something much simpler than that. Basically: "how about I give you this envelope which contains a big wedge of used non-consecutive notes, and you turn a blind eye to the dodgy stuff wot I'm about to do guv"

That isn't a conspiracy. There's another word for that. Corruption

I think you will find that the reason it came out was actually the full and thorough investigation by the IPCC

Nope.

But you believe whatever you care to make up to feed your own predjudices.

Quite

I think BB's on to a loser here. The suggestion that the newspapers have contacts in the met who will supply info for £££ isn't exactly on the same levels as faked moon landing conspiracy theories. The hacks will have lots of sources of info, plod included.

I notice that all the people knocking the met over the G20 case have overlooked to admit they were entirely wrong in respect of all the accusations of cover up.

Eh?

So how far do you think these practices went:
1. Just NOTW
2. NOTW & Sun
3. All News International
4. All tabloids
5. All less scrupulous journos were at it
6. It was routine in the industry and it happened everywhere

I'm tending to guess between 5 and 6

Rebekah Brooks;

"I hope that you all realise it is inconceivable that I knew - or worse - sanctioned these appalling allegations."

*hollow laughter*

berm bandit, you do know that wade admitted that her paper regularly paid met officers for information

[b]"I don't expect public servants to have higher moral standards than anyone else"[/b]

What ???? You don't expect police officers to have higher moral standards than anyone else ?

Well I, and I hazard to guess the overwhelming majority of the population, expect higher than average moral standards from police officers. I am perfectly happy to work alongside a plumber with a criminal conviction for theft, but I would be seriously pissed off if I was nicked by a copper with a simular criminal conviction for theft.

And their employers agree with me - a copper done for drink driving will be kicked out of the police force.

"how about [s]I give you this envelope which contains a big wedge of used non-consecutive notes[/s] we publish wot you want, and you turn a blind eye to the dodgy stuff wot I'm about to do guv"

seems a tad more realistic, no?

So what you're saying BB is that any old ****er can slip someone at Orange twenty quid and get the number of the deputy PM and then tap straight into their phone. Without anyone in the security services being aware of that? For Year after year?

No, you just get yourself a job at vodafone or hmrc or anywhere. You don't need to bribe anyone, you can pry, pass secrets on at will and get paid for it

Thats about it IMO BigButSlimmerBloke.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive fella. I'd say both.

One question that springs immediately to mind is where did the NOTW get hold of Millie Dowler (and now it seems, her parents) phone numbers? Where did they happen upon John Prescotts number (who happened to be deputy PM at the time?

The Guardian article indicated the mobile numbers (and any unlisted ones) were obtained from a BT employee.

The article also made it clear that the police were at least aware of the NOTW's behaviour in the Dowler case.

And their employers agree with me - a copper done for drink driving will be kicked out of the police force.

In much the same way that any other professional driver will lose their job if disqualified through D & D, so whats your point ernie? If anything that confirms my point rather than contradicts it. i.e. I don't expect the Police in general to have higher moral standards than the general population, so shockingly I do expect that there are corrupt coppers, and those who drink too much and those who are kiddy fiddlers and in all liklihood they will be in pretty much the exact same proportions as they are in the population at large. To suggest anything else is naieve beyond belief, but also suggests that like the general population the majority are law abiding citizens just like you and me.

The article also made it clear that the police were at least aware of the NOTW's behaviour in the Dowler case.

Does it also point out the similarly blindingly obvious fact that they were keeping it schtum until the trial was over?

Just reading the article now.

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/04/milly-dowler-voicemail-hacked-news-of-world ]here[/url]

The newspaper also made no effort to conceal its activity from Surrey police. After it had hacked the message from the recruitment agency on Milly's phone, the paper informed police about it.

It was Surrey detectives who established that the call was not intended for Milly Dowler. At the time, Surrey police suspected that phones belonging to detectives and to Milly's parents also were being targeted.

One of those who was involved in the original inquiry said: "We'd arrange landline calls. We didn't trust our mobiles."

However, they took no action against the News of the World, partly because their main focus was to find the missing schoolgirl and partly because this was only one example of tabloid misbehaviour. As one source close to the inquiry put it: "There was a hell of a lot of dirty stuff going on." Two earlier Yard inquiries had failed to investigate the relevant notes in Mulcaire's logs.

Seems the relationship was very cosy indeed. Surely any investigation would look intoo this stuff if they were aware it was going on. It is, after all, illegal