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Yes
Good job I can confidently say you bugger all about what you are talking about on this issue then. You don't come across as a judgemental prick. At all.
Yes really, 25% of kids in secondary education in Edinburgh are in private schools
Probably the highest concentration for a large city in the UK
But don’t let the facts get in the way of tartan sanctimony
Cool story bro. Can you now tell me the difference between a grammar school (what I was talking about) and a private school (what you are talking about). Let's not let reading comprehension get in the way of a smart arsed reply.
anagallis_arvensis
Member
Are you suggesting that people who send their kids to boarding school don’t like them?Yes.
Stay classy.
I'm another one who paid for his two sons to go to a private school (ages 7-16). Why? Class sizes was one of those, the fact that the school celebrated success and achievement - and that was based on a pupils ability. Plus access to sports facilities and music. Yes we could have done all teh extra curricular activities, but having all it in one place made it easy. We also worked, so having after school clubs was one less hassle.
I went through the state school - mainly comprehensive - and ended up in a University when less that 5% of people went to Uni. In an ideal world I would have liked my boys to go through the state system, but reality does set it. My lads got full value out of the school DoE, CCF, Music Bands, Rugby, Cricket, Chess plus good GCSEs. They both choose to move to a very good local 6th Form college for A levels and did well.
We talk about if we got rid of private schools all those passionate parents would drive up standards on the state schools. This is at best a dream. While there were plenty of parents like us, prepared to sacrifice lots of stuff for their education, I am not sure that many of them would have tried to drive up standards at the local schools. To do that you need the majority of parents prepared to be involved and support the school. It does not happen at the moment, a handful of extra parents will not change it - sad but true.
anagallis_arvensis
Member
Are you suggesting that people who send their kids to boarding school don’t like them?Yes.
Stay classy.
Never been classy in the first place!!
Was it just at our uni that whenever someone mentioned that they went to a boarding school everyone used to say "so your parents didnt like you either then"?
We talk about if we got rid of private schools all those passionate parents would drive up standards on the state schools.
I think just having more motivated kids would help drive up standards of the others tbh.
Was it just at our uni that whenever someone mentioned that they went to a boarding school everyone used to say “so your parents didnt like you either then”?
Everyone I know says that, doesn't mean they actually mean it. Even my mum and I cheerfully say she got rid of me because she hated me, of course we have a sense of humour and don't actually mean it. I know precious few people, from my school at least, who weren't grateful for it.
Everyone I know says that, doesn’t mean they actually mean it.
Are they judgemental ****** or not?
Are they judgemental ****** or not?
Some on this thread most certainly are.
Everyone I know says that, doesn’t mean they actually mean it. Even my mum and I cheerfully say she got rid of me because she hated me, of course we have a sense of humour and don’t actually mean it. I know precious few people, from my school at least, who weren’t grateful for it.
Of course they were grateful - Stockholm syndrome is a suit of armour. These kids have no other alternative 🙁
If your parents were overseas it's not so bad - but UK parents sending their own kids to UK boarding school. Damn that is cold.
If your parents were overseas it’s not so bad – but UK parents sending their own kids to UK boarding school. Damn that is cold.
In your opinion; have you ever actually spoken to students at a private school and asked them their opinion?
Thought not.
Some on this thread most certainly are.
Indeed.
AA I have nothing more to say to you, I know when someone is trying to get a rise and I'm not going to bite.
Of course they were grateful – Stockholm syndrome is a suit of armour. These kids have no other alternative
Are you suggesting I have Stockholm syndrome? That the people I went to school with are also suffering? That my parents are "just cold"?
There is trolling and then there is just plain ****ing mean. Casting aspersions on my parents, my peers and myself is over the line. You want to get personal? Ive been banned off here for less.
AA I have nothing more to say to you
OK.
In your opinion; have you ever actually spoken to students at a private school and asked them their opinion?
Thought not.
Yes - my mate. He hates his parents for sending him off and “couldn’t be arsed with him.”
He would never send his kids to private school now.
1. It's a very emotive subject.
2. The range of standards within the state system is huge.
3. Private schools are little or no better than the very best state schools.
4. It would be highly desirable if all schools could be as good as the best schools.
5. Until that happens, parents who have the means can't be blamed for playing the hand they're dealt and prioritising their children's education.
6. Abolishing private schools is an admirable end, but it is not the means by which we address inequality. Lots of other things have to happen first, otherwise we're just achieving equality by levelling down. No one wants that.
Does anyone disagree with any of this?
Yes – my mate
Every person I know who boarded would disagree wholeheartedly. I know a lot of them.
A shame that your friend's experience was bad, but it doesn't mean that it's the norm.
Yup.
I do.
Completely.
Abolishing private schools is an admirable end, but it is not the means by which we address inequality. Lots of other things have to happen first, otherwise we’re just achieving equality by levelling down. No one wants that.
If we maintain the status quo, nothing will change.
Those with the power to actually improve the state sector will have no incentive to do so.
Their self interest will prevail. They will continue to send their kids to private schools and pay lip service to genuine improvement of the state sector.
See Diane Abbott etc.....
Sometimes a radical change is required.
All that's needed is the will to do so.
It's quite simple.
You have to ask yourself if you believe in equality of opportunity.
If you don't, be prepared to confront those who do, and accept that other people are happy to challenge your greed and entitlement.
Rusty, how do you address point.2?
By raising the quality of state education to a nationally recognised standard of excellence.
Do you believe in equality of opportunity?
Agree 100%, which is what I was referring to when I said other things had to happen.
Sorry Rusty I missed your edit, you have restated my point 4, which obviously I agree with.
Sorry, I was trying to be as concise as possible. 🙂
Those who believe in private education by definition do not believe in equality of opportunity.
Private schools are little or no better than the very best state schools.
I would be astonished, given the massive differences in per pupil funding if this was the case and would like to know how you came to this conclusion.
This thread is very informative, it explains why I don't get on with some folk here and disagree on almost everything. There's a mindset and set of attitudes that come with a public school education along with a cocky insecurity that even comes across on a forum.
Who would that be?
Grade the victims of their education:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/08/boarding-school-syndrome-joy-schaverien-review
for cockiness and insecurity and you can make a list for me. There have been other threads on this that I nicked the above link from.
Back when I had to (reluctantly) get to grips with things pedagogical a study by a guy called Brownlow put into words things I'd observed in the world around me about language registers and the ability to fuction in different environments. The ability to play with register and adapt your language to whatever situation you're in is key to acceptance and success. You can also also do just the opposite if you feel like it. Read back through this and other threads where people willingly or through their comments reveal their educational backgrounds and you might find (I do find) that it has a lot to do with if people get on or don't on this forum. No names, you're either aware of it or you aren't, Brownlow was right.
I quite enjoyed my time at private (boarding) school although I'm sure many kids had a crap time at private school but then I'm guessing many kids at state school did to. OK going somewhere else to live for a big chunk of the year at 11 was a bit of a shock but I soon got used it, some took longer for sure but I wasn't aware of anyone being damaged for life by the experience. About 1/4 of the school were day pupils so no difference for them in terms of parental relationship than if they'd gone to a state school.
Ultimately it would be good if the UK state education were so good that most private schools went out of business as they wouldn't be offering any educational benefit but forcibly scrapping them first in the hope that it will instigate change and improvements seems a stupid idea to me (borne of trying to get headlines rather than sensible policy making)
Grade the victims of their education:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/08/boarding-school-syndrome-joy-schaverien-review
for cockiness and insecurity and you can make a list for me
I could save myself some time if we just had a member list.
Cockiness and insecurity is not an exclusive trait of people who went to boarding school, this forum should be very good proof of this.
There’s a mindset and set of attitudes that come with a public school education along with a cocky insecurity that even comes across on a forum.
I think that says a lot more about your personal prejudice than the reality. I'm sure there are plenty of cocky, insecure public school pricks. But as someone else pointed out, these are far from exclusive traits of a public boarding school education. Unfortunately, these traits appear to be common throughout our society.
Those who believe in private education by definition do not believe in equality of opportunity.
I don't think it's so black and white as that. I don't "believe" in private education as a concept and would much rather not have to spend £15k a year or whatever per child on education. But if I think the state system is not good enough then I would certainly go private. Our 2 daughters are currently in state primary school (10 and 7) and I can't fault it so far. Our local grammar school is very good, so that's an obvious option (as they are both academic). Our local comp is also well regarded and there are several private schools nearby. So I think we are quite fortunate in those respects and could afford the private fees IF necessary. I see private education very much as a last resort option in all honesty.
Equality of opportunity is all very nice as a concept, but it's really not how our capitalist society works in practice. But at least there is free state education available and it's not all shit as some people seem to think. It is however clearly inconsistent and clearly lacking funding. But that's down to taxation and government spending priorities. I'm not convinced abolishing private schools would help much, if at all in that respect.
Now I know that private schools do not equal boarding schools but this article clearly outlines the damage boarding schools do and the resultant damage to the country
Boarding schools warp our political class – I know because I went to one
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/07/boarding-schools-boris-johnson-bullies
The joke used to be that poor people had their kids taken into care while the rich sent their kids to boarding school but I think there's more than an element of truth to it.
My parents were crap at parenting. Our house was just a battle ground with raging arguments every night. Eventually (I was 12) we sat down and decided it would be best if I went to boarding school. There was all kinds of justifications we told ourselves, we were living in the Middle East at the time and the international school I was going to wasn't good enough being the main one, but the main reason was that as a family we could not get along. My parents failed at their job and I left.
It's difficult to gauge how much damage boarding school did me compared to if I had stayed with my parents but I am very ****ed up.
My advice to anyone considering sending their kids to boarding school would be just put them up for adoption instead. It takes away the doubt.
Now I know that private schools do not equal boarding schools but this article clearly outlines the damage boarding schools do
I think you meant CAN do. My experience of boarding school (from age 11) was not the same as the guy that wrote the article. Was it all some amazing happy time? No but then I know many people going through state schools wouldn't say their time in one was entirely positive.
Are there some shit private/boarding schools out there with bullying and sexual abuse issue? Undoubtedly but that doesn't mean all are like that. I've got no idea if sexual abuse happened at my school, I was certainly never aware of it it happening let alone experienced it. Was there bullying? Yes but not relentless and not actually that 'full on', I got punched and kicked on a few occasions but I was also a bit of a mouthy git to older pupils, sure that still doesn't deserve physical assault but stuff like that happens in any school and I doubt it's anymore prevalent in private schools.
I can understand if you do end up in a situation where you're relentlessly bullied then boarding school must be a nightmare and it would likely psychologically scar you. That's a reason to better monitor pupil behaviour and exclude bullies etc. in boarding schools not ban boarding schools themselves.
I've also said it before, whilst there is the stereotypical private/boarding school like Eton and Harrow there are far more schools out there full of pupils there for reasons other than to try and get into/remain in the 'elite' and go on to Oxford/Cambridge and head up a hedge fund or become a politician. Whether or not pupils get a better education at a private school isn't really relevant, it should be up to parents to determine if it's of value - it's not for the government to decide (and there are other reasons besides quality of education why children end up in private schools)
I've got no issues with private schools not receiving funding from tax payers, whether they should get tax breaks is a bit more of a grey area (if the funding cost per pupil is still less than if in state education then why not?). But banning them? It's just a stupid, ill thought out policy designed to get cheap votes from people that feel they've been shafted by the privileged elite and that Labour's on their side. They may well have been shafted but it's not due to private schools existing
Can is correct perhaps with " and often does"
And very often doesn't - or have you done a full survey over the last xx amount of years of every privately educated person? Thought not...
Just wondering if banning private schools would extend to the specialist schools like the Royal Ballet School, Elmhurst Ballet School, Hammond School, Tring School for the Perfoming Arts, Cheethams School of Music, etc. as they offer fantastically superior education in these areas compared to state schools. Would closing them bring up the standard of dance & music in the state sector.
On a side note the government pays for most of the pupils at these private schools through the MDS (Music & Dance Scheme), which is income dependent but is still pretty generous considering a family income of £90k still gets over half the annual cost (boarding) of £30k paid.
Fuzzy - no others have done that and the results are clear.
Look everyone, TJ is right. All private education is evil, especially boarding schools. Every single person who went to one is an evil, mentally and psychologically damaged person who probably stabs kittens for fun.
How dare anyone say their experience, or those of the overwhelming majority of their friends, differs from these cold, hard facts.
I'll just leave this here. Remind you of anyone?
You develop a shell, a character whose purpose is to project an appearance of confidence and strength, while inside all is fear and flight and anger. The shell may take the form of steely reserve, expansive charm, bumbling eccentricity, or a combination of all three. But underneath it, you are desperately seeking assurance. The easiest means of achieving it is to imagine that you can dominate your feelings by dominating other people.
Sounds like every single person who was privately educated. After all, they're all exactly the same, aren't they? Can't argue with facts.
I’ll just leave this here. Remind you of anyone?
Actually I think it's just described every single person I've ever met, to a greater or lesser extent. It's just a description of human nature.
But banning them? It’s just a stupid, ill thought out policy designed to get cheap votes
+1 you can't ban privilege, some people are wealthier than others, some people are cleverer than others, some people are healthier than others as much as I'd like to try and level the playing field that's life.
Private schools bring in funding from foreign students and I can't see the super wealthy letting their kids go to insecure state schools with fear of abduction etc
Fuzzy – no others have done that and the results are clear
FFS TJ your obvious dislike of private schools is leading you to post utter bollocks. Let me try educating you with facts:
No comprehensive survey has been carried out (I know this as I was privately educated and no one has asked me).
Results from whatever survey(s) have been carried out are not clear. One or a few psychologists have <span style="text-decoration: underline;">interpreted</span> some surveys. I'm not saying they're 100% but I know their findings don't match my own experience and I know the sample of data they're working on isn't large enough for anyone to draw a definitive conclusion from.
I have worked in private schools for the past 10 years, and the quality of the children we produce is truly amazing. If I had the disposable income (and my kids had the ability to cope with the workload) then there is no doubt they would be in private. From educational support to sports coaching, the difference between state and private is night and day. Yes, not every school is suitable for every child. But this is just as prevalent with the state school offerings. I have had pupils who have struggled at one private school achieve great things through a change of environment at another (both boarding and day), and I've had children come through on scholarships who have achieved far, far in excess of what would have been possible in the state environment.
For balance, my wife is head of SEN for a 16+ college, she sees 1st hand the effects of budget cuts and pressures on the state system - redistributing the facilities of the private sector will not solve any of this. Quite what my local state school would do with an additional 5 rugby pitches (apart from sell them for housing) is anyone's guess. They cannot afford to maintain the facilities they have, let alone the listed buildings of the Private school.
+1 you can’t ban privilege, some people are wealthier than others, some people are cleverer than others, some people are healthier than others as much as I’d like to try and level the playing field that’s life.
Private schools
...give even more advantage to the already advantaged, disadvantage the less advantaged still more than they already are, making the country less fair and meritocratic. Things aren't like this in more successful countries, and they don't have to be like this here.
How good private schools are is really not relevant - its their effects on the country which are really really bad.
Quite what my local state school would do with an additional 5 rugby pitches (apart from sell them for housing) is anyone’s guess. They cannot afford to maintain the facilities they have, let alone the listed buildings of the Private school.
Sell it and educate many more people better?
+1 you can’t ban privilege, some people are wealthier than others, some people are cleverer than others, some people are healthier than others as much as I’d like to try and level the playing field that’s life.
Private schools bring in funding from foreign students and I can’t see the super wealthy letting their kids go to insecure state schools with fear of abduction etc
Da fa?!?
Of course some people are wealthier than others. And if it's a result of an individual's personal merit (be it talent, intelligence, or whatever), then great. They have made it, so they deserve it. But there should be limits on how much can be passed on. Inheritance tax, instead of hitting a middle or lower class family where it hurts, should be redirected at the genuinely wealthy.
As for people being cleverer than others, great. Let there be academically-oriented schools and vocationally-oriented schools all generously-provisioned, where students of all different of gifts can thrive. Private schools only engender a false sense of achievement of kids who are being hot-housed to achieve. It's all bullshit.
And yes, some people are healthier than others. And those who suffer more deserve to be supported by those who are more fortunate. End of. I don't get what you're saying. Should healthier people get better-provisioned hospitals?!?
Finally, are you suggesting that the super-wealthy can't send their kids to state schools for fear of abduction? If that was really a concern for anyone other than the most rare cases in the world, I would be surprised. And anyone else can **** off.
Written by: A middle-aged man from a wealthy Canadian home who attended a state school his whole life, but was part of an internally-selective academic programme. So I have neither wealth-envy nor academics-envy.
I really dislike all of the politics of envy on this thread. The level of ignorance about how independent schools operate is also astounding. It almost makes me want to vote Tory (something I've never done), just to piss off all of the self righteous, let's-drag-everyone-down-to-a-mediocre-level lefties who shout the loudest on this forum.
That is all.
JP
Just to summarise this thread:
1. Private education is a clearly unfair advantage that cannot be allowed to continue
2. However Private schools aren't better than good state schools
3. Private education makes creates dysfunctional and unproductive humans
4. Merely the act of closing them with no other defined action would improve all education in the UK.
5. Yeah but, no but, I met someone once and Boris Johnson, so there.
Got it.
I really dislike all of the politics of envy on this thread.
Why is it the politics of envy? I have had a very good education, I would just like everyone to get a better chance.
The level of ignorance about how independent schools operate is also astounding.
Not surprising given the fact thatvonly a small number of people who go to them and then go on to dominate top jobs that others rarely get the chance to break in to
Got it.
You keep thinking fella!
Not thinking seems to be the general theme here.
It's the current poor state of public state education that is at fault not people's choice to choose private education if they see fit.
I can't stand the unequality of it myself, even the difference between the local state grammar schools and comprehensive schools is night and day, down to how well you do (or are tutored) to pass the 12+ exam.
I have worked in private schools for the past 10 years, and the quality of the children we produce is truly amazing.
That quite an odd turn of phrase by someone working in the education sector of our youngsters to come out with. It's how Gregg Wallace would describe Bakewell Tarts coming off the production line at the Mr Kipling factory.
An analysis of TIMSS data shows that weak unions, school based control over hiring and salaries, centralised exams, and a healthy private school sector lead to higher student achievement.
https://www.educationnext.org/whystudentsinsomecountriesdobetter
It’s the current poor state of public state education that is at fault
Is state education in the UK currently poor? Seems way better than when I was a lad.
Its a lot worse than when I was a lad - but then i went to secondary in a truely comprehensive system that was properly funded.
BTW -0 if you have a grammar school you cannot have comprehensive schools in that area. think about it.
Personally I like to believe the education experts I know - none of whom sent kids to private school and who ran Scotlands schools system up until about 15 years ago. and yes - I do mean the people who were advising the government, setting standards and so on. Highly skilled . qualified and paid education professionals
Is state education in the UK currently poor? Seems way better than when I was a lad.
Are you joking? From this side of the border the English education system is a bloody joke, schools that are more concerned about what kids are dressed like (down to what label their grey jumper or black trousers have) than their education (as seen when uniform rule breakers are excluded). You have the academys and whatever the hell passes for standards in them and a creaking state system for the remainder. Then there's the hilarious "pretend you pray" nonsense to get into the "right school".
I'm not saying the Scottish system is perfect, we have our issues as well but by and large it's a level playing field in terms of choice and we don't seem to have the same bs to contend with.
TJ - keep believing what you like but as an ex-boarder (10-18) I can assure you that not everyone or even a sizeable minority of my cohorts turned out like that. Of course we had proper pastoral care and folk in charge who gave a shit, I imagine were that not the case it could get very ugly indeed (and from what I understand was for a long time, product of making soldiers teachers I guess). There are plenty of boarding schools all over the place that you wouldn't know existed but quietly turn out plenty of well adjusted people every year. As said not all of them exist as Oxbridge feeders.
the English education system is a bloody joke
My kids must have been lucky with our schools then - or we chose wisely. 🙂
Squirrelking - its not just the damage it does to people and yes of course they do not damage every child and yes some schools will be much better than others and not all private schools are boarding schools. Its also the damage they do to others education as I explained before. Removing motivated kids, teacher and parents out of the state system damages state educated kids chances. Add to this the " old boys network" and you end up with something that is toxic for the country. I also abhor thew fact that my taxes subsidise private schools. I would not abolish them. I would just make them pay their way and be taxed as businesses and to pay the state for those state trained teachers they remove from the state system
I am looking at the population as a whole. I perfectly understand the desire to do the best you can for your kids on an individual basis. I want whats best for the population as a whole. greatest good of the greatest number
And as above - this is not my view. this is the view of some of the countrys top education experts none of whom sent their kids to private schools
And of course education is not just about exam results. Its about helping children become nicely rounded adults
Put it this way - i bet I could tell the private school educated folk on here by their attitudes with a decent degree of accuracy.
I don't see that a teacher in a private school has been removed from the system anymore than another graduate that hasn't gone into the public sector.
If there is a shortage of teachers then make the career more attractive to both graduates and those currently teaching.
I don't think dismantling the private system without improving the state system is going to benefit anyone.
I'm sure about 50 pages back someone said that if you improve the state system then the public schools will die from the competition. We could try that instead of creating monster academy chains with millionaire CEOs.
Put it this way – i bet I could tell the private school educated folk on here by their attitudes with a decent degree of accuracy.
Please expand on this...
I don’t think dismantling the private system without improving the state system is going to benefit anyone.
This.
Our system is ****ed. Like our public health services our state education system is run by people chasing targets and bonuses and staffed by folk who are over worked and under paid. Instead of addressing these issues we instead heap the blame on the private sector. I'm just about a committed trot compared to most and even I can see this is utter nonsense, its the same old divide and conquer shite being used to place the blame elsewhere.
TJ - I'd be interested to know what attitudes you think you can spot in the privately educated and the difference between what you think you see and reality.
Totally agree and this is what pisses me off about the whole thing, its like saying good nutrition causes long life, only rich people can afford good nutrition and that's not fair, so lets ban good nutrition.
Its ****ing moronic and just the politics of envy. I sometimes think I am left wing, then i come across stuff like this and think these people are so thick its unbelievable.
If we fix education, private schools will cease to be relevant and go out of business. Simple.
If we ban private schools and carry on as we are otherwise, we will just make overall education worse.
And of course education is not just about exam results. Its about helping children become nicely rounded adults
Put it this way – i bet I could tell the private school educated folk on here by their attitudes with a decent degree of accuracy.
Jeesus this is naked prejudice.
No it is not - its a reality that you guys cannot see
What qualities?> Arrogance, over confidence, patronising attitudes, lack of empathy - that sort of thing and its completely obvious
If we fix education, private schools will cease to be relevant and go out of business. Simple.
No, they won't because they are about far more than education.
If we ban private schools and carry on as we are otherwise, we will just make overall education worse.
If you can private schools, you won't carry on as you were, because the sharp elbowed classes, as Cameron called them, will make damn sure that doesn't happen. Which is part of the argument for banning private schools.
Its **** moronic and just the politics of envy
I asked before why its the politics if envy I dont get this. Is it envy that makes me want a better education system one like Finland for example? I'm envious of the Finish system I suppose. Private schools drain the state system of good experienced teachers so getting rid or massively limiting would straight away improve things, obviously it would also need a massive shake up of the state system, but those trying to make out it would be done in isolation and would therefore make things worse seem to just be moronic and espousing the politics of over simiplicity.
And as above – this is not my view. this is the view of some of the countrys top education experts none of whom sent their kids to private schools
Isn’t that just making some kind of daft point possibly to the detriment of their kids, or maybe they just liked to high salaries on fancy cars and posh holidays over paying school fees.
My wife and I both work in the NHS but we use private healthcare where appropriate because we know that’s the best thing for us, doesn’t mean we don’t invest 100% of our working efforts in to improving the NHS.
I went to a shit state school, my wife went to a different shit school in another part of the country, we now live in a part of the country with shit state schools, so have decided to send our son to a private school. He loves it, but maybe we should put him back in to the local under funded overstretched state system just for fairness.
How much state revenue is lost from private schools having charitable status, have we confirmed that figure higher up in the thread ?
Arrogance, over confidence, patronising attitudes, lack of empathy – that sort of thing and its completely obvious
This is prejudice. Plain and simple. You have met a few people like this and some of them happen to be from private school. You should look in a mirror, you are describing yourself.
Utter nonsense 5plus8
Its well proven and well founded. You may not be able to see it but its totally obvious. don't like the message - attack the messanger 😉
AA - all of the points you have made in this discussion have been well argued and backed up.
I asked before why its the politics if envy I dont get this. Is it envy that makes me want a better education system one like Finland for example? I’m envious of the Finish system I suppose.
No, in your case no. However many people they want to ban private education because of envy.
Private schools drain the state system of good experienced teachers so getting rid or massively limiting would straight away improve things, obviously it would also need a massive shake up of the state system,
`
My experience is that this is an incorrect assumption. Private school teachers are some of the worst I have come across and wouldn't make it in the state sector. They have an easy job, willing kids and parents who want those kids to do well.
but those trying to make out it would be done in isolation and would therefore make things worse seem to just be moronic and espousing the politics of over simiplicity.
This is just cynical experience, govts have mucked up education, they never do proper joined up policy and they love crowd pleasing. I don't believe the Joris Bonson cares about protecting private schools he only cares about himself, I can see him coming down on private schools as a vote winner and not doing anything to improve education.
Obvs my interest here is that I send my kids to private. Thats because the local schools suck hugely. We struggle with the money, none of the schools alumni run the country, but a lot of good doctors, engineers, physicists and pharma researchers came from there. If they banned private schools before my 10 year old gets her a levels everything I have devoted to my kids will be wasted.
The prejudice here is that there are hundreds (ie the majority) of private schools (that you have never heard of) that are not eton, and produce kids that are not arrogant patronising ****ers, they produce kids that serve the country at the parents cost.
Its a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
\ts well proven and well founded. You may not be able to see it but its totally obvious. don’t like the message – attack the messanger
So let me see you insulted 10's of thousands of people you have never met, who attended private school calling them arrogant and patronising.
And I respond by calling that insult as prejudice, which it is. And I am attacking the messenger? It is prejudice, because you do not know these people, how can you know what they are like?
I admit to being prejudiced too. I assume that most people are nice and decent until proven otherwise.
Arrogance, over confidence, patronising attitudes, lack of empathy
Physician, heal thyself.
My experience is that this is an incorrect assumption.
My experience of 15 years in state education and knowing who has leftvto go to private schools very much doesnt add up to the same as yours. True a few not great teachers make the jump too but the real dross especially in shortage subjects just cycle round loads of state schools filling gaps left by better teachers and only get jobs because schools are desperate, the private schools are much less desperate due to offering better conditions and often better pay.
I send my kids to private.
Good for you, no problem with this.
If they banned private schools before my 10 year old gets her a levels everything I have devoted to my kids will be wasted.
Not everything as they would still have had many years of better education. But my question is, should, in an affluent society like ours, this be right. Should you and millions of others be desperate to get a decent education for their kids and yet only a very few be able to do this? I'd send my son private in a heartbeat if I could afford it. Shouldnt everyone have access to good education?
I agree with you, I just don't think banning private schools solves this.
You know why the top performing private schools get the best results don't you?
Hot housing and gaming the system?
Yeah kinda, they are selective, they bin the kids that don't perform along the way, they only enter the A grade kids for the exams. If you are not going to get A or A* (or 8 and 9's now) they ask you to leave.
Note I said - top performing schools.
Most private schools are inclusive. But seeing as everyone wants to consider that 8 of the best known schools in the country are representative of the 100s of others I thought I may as well indulge..
Not dissimilar to the top state grammar schools then..
I was just about to raise that.