[Closed] That was damn close!

I'm forever trying to highlight to my other half the idea of 'defensive cycling' - if there's a road/narrowing that can only allow ONE vehicle through, move to the centre of the road and be that vehicle - it then removes any temptations the driver might have to pull along side you.....

This is particularly effective when towing the kiddie trailer as its a wide bugger, and mose other road users are daft...!

DrP

Oh, in Dez's case he should just hush up as he doesn't pay road tax...... 😉

[i]I have genuinely never seen a cyclist going forward at a speed more than say 5 mph and simply flop over sideways.[/i]

I dropped my chain on monday night (worn drivetrain, been meaning to something about it for ages...), and as I was climbing out of the saddle I was pitched over to my right, hitting the road pretty hard. Luckily for me, it was through some roadworks and I'd just switched to the 'wrong' side of the cones, into the coned off lane, as a courtesy to traffic that would otherwise be stuck behind me up the hill.

Two out the three vids GrahamS links to are clearly the result of riding over metal. Tip : don't ride over metal.

shaft happens

[img] [/img]

Indeed, he does/did, my brother...

8)

Indeed, DrP - when I was much younger and more foolish and rode too far to the left I had a car attempt to overtake me through [url= http://goo.gl/maps/mCwwa ]here[/url] - nowadays I move out so that I'm right in the middle of the lane through there so they don't even consider it (have heard screeching tyres as they realise they're heading for the island in the middle a couple of times).

OTOH, just up the road is [url= http://goo.gl/maps/Kk2XS ]this[/url] example of where it is safe for a car to overtake a cyclist without breaking the white line - it is just about wide enough to fit 4 cars across there (used to have a suicide lane in the middle).

f there isn't room to pass safely then the correct answer is not "just pass unsafely then"

Have a trawl of RoadCC for the cyclist in London that was run over by a bus following him too close when a car

Too close is too close . Clearly I'm not saying cyclists need no room, just that we don't need loads of room. Unless you are cycling back from the pub that is.

How many of those guys who fall off make a huge song and dance about it?

(all of them)

oooh, arrrgh, ooh shit, ooof, arggh, oooh, eeeh.

He's quite close to the Porsche, which has closed down his forward view. He's then positioned his vehicle during the overtake to give the other cyclist plenty of space, very probably because he hasn't seen you soon enough, if at all.

We don't know why a presumably highly trained driver has failed to see or react appropriately to you, thereby placing you in a degree of danger. It doesn't matter whether he's trying to see something in the car ahead, preparing to overtake or stop it, squinting at the low sun or just driving with his brain in neutral. He's a professional driver who has made a simple human misjudgment that could have had significant consequences for you.

Send the footage to the Force Website with the time date and location, and your contact details. The matter will be forwarded to the relevant head of department for attention. At the very least the officer will have his ear chewed for making an arse of an overtake. If it makes him think and take a bit more care next time, then job done.

Well said, downshep.

I once reported a police driver for bad driving as he'd overtaken another car which was already overtaking me - ironically only metres away from the gap in my first link above (but before they'd built that). Got called in to have a chat with the sergeant, then later got a feedback call - apparently he'd had a word with the driver concerned, but not anything formal, which is exactly what I was after - doubtless as in this case it was a lapse of judgement rather than something more fundamental.

Agreed but passing safely does not necessarily mean using the whole opposite carriageway.

Yeah agreed, course not. As aracer says some roads have lanes so wide you can pass without even breaking the lane.

But if I'm the one driving the car then I give cyclists as much room as possible and will happily change lanes to overtake.

I'm just a bit surprised that this upsets you.

I would guess we all need a bit of prodding sometimes about our driving.

Oh, in Dez's case he should just hush up as he doesn't pay road tax......

I had this discussion with my mum the other day when she got all het up about a couple of horse-riders taking up the road ahead.

I said that horse riders have as much right to the road as we do.

She said "they don't even pay road tax".

I said "Well neither do you - you pay Vehicle Excise Duty" and she told me to shut up, that I was always argumentative and that she was right because she is my mother.

But it's a good point - car drivers pay a tax to use the roads because they make roads more inefficient: the more cars there are there, the slower the roads become. Bicyclists don't pay a tax because we make the roads more efficient: the more of us there are, the faster cars would go.

So, logically, car drivers should love cyclists.

logically, car drivers

Hahahahah. Good one.

the more of us there are, the faster cars would go.

the more of us there are, the faster cars would go.

yes, or "the more people who cycle to work instead of drive, the fewer cars there would be on the road, resulting in fewer traffic hold-ups and shorter journey times for car drivers with less need for reckless driving or speeding"...

surely that's logical?

logically, car drivers
Hahahahah. Good one.

Logic applies to them even if they can't apply it.

Motorists are a weird bunch.

They even get cross with other motorists getting in their way, although in this instance they can't reel off the "don't pay road tax" nonsense, so they just sit there being angry with no way of venting 😀

Logic applies to them even if they can't apply it.

Not sure… but if it didn't, how could it be said that a car driver acted 'illogically'..?

longj - Member

I take it you have never riden in rush hour traffic. It's simply not possible to give that amount of room. If all drivers waited until there was space in the opposite lane then there would be a very slow moving traffic

I ride or drive in rush hour traffic every day, like most people who commute. I wait til there's safe space- which generally means using the opposite lane, on normal roads- and yes sometimes that'll create a small tailback that might make someone 30 seconds late for work. That's driving, if they don't like it they should get a bike. It doesn't become OK to overtake dangerously just because it's hard to overtake safely!

For most of my commute, if you pass a cyclist without crossing the white line, you're a *. It happens often, because many people are *s, so i discourage it with defensive riding. But I won't do it myself because I'm not a ****. Well, not with regard to overtaking.

longj - Member

Agreed but passing safely does not necessarily mean using the whole opposite carriageway.

Correct- but where oncoming traffic is concerned, that generally makes no difference... if it's safe to use a bit of the opposite carriageway it's usually safe to use it all.

... The corollary of which is: if it's not safe to use all the carriageway, it's not safe to use any of it.

I will often signal right and move well to my right to pass someone on a bike, if I'm in a line of traffic. That's so some of the drivers behind me, those focussing beyond the car immediately in front of them, will know there's something other than cars on the road.

I do pay "road tax" (or whatever it's called) anyway. But my [i]car[/i] is sat on my [i]drive[/i] whilst I'm a riding my [i]bike[/i].
(italics model's own)

That 'Porsche' is a Toyota MR2.
And the highly trained Police driver hasnt got the sun in his eyes. It was setting fo shure , but his face is not illumilated at all . He is probably looking much further down the road toward the vanishing point , as he is a highly trained driver, and not at the end of the bonnet ( where Debz is)
I sometimes get the second or third car in the queue blasting their horn as the car(s) in front wont overtake me when i ride in primary. Then , and you know its coming , the punishment overtake where you can feel the wind being blown off the nearside mirror of the white panel van next to your ear. Why is it always white panel vans?

What they dont realise is i live on a small island , and they have a registration number and an easily spotted vehicle . I am on a pushbike and they cannot know me or where i live.

Scary bit of driving from the policeman. They constatly bleat on about how highly trained they are. As if no-one else has had any sort of advanced training or is allowed to.

Is it only me that thinks yes it was close but no one was hurt so it doesn't really matter???

Yes, I think it is.

somouk - Member
Is it only me that thinks yes it was close but no one was hurt so it doesn't really matter???

Just you there.

In every aspect of Health & Safety the onus is put on learning. Learn from mistakes, accidents, near misses and everything.

If you did something wrong and saw it then you might make a mental note, if you didn't then you won't learn and next time you may make the same mistake with more severe consequences.

If the police have a half decent training & learning environment there will be no bollocking for the driver. Just a look at what happened and some learning rolled out to the other drivers. In all these things people tend to get defensive but a culture where mistakes can be examined and leaning shared rather than a traditional hair dryer shouting at makes for a safer world. In an ideal world by the time Dez sent the video in the copper would have reported that he had a near miss and that these were the reasons an this is what could be done to stop it in future.

[i]Is it only me that thinks yes it was close but no one was hurt so it doesn't really matter?[/i]

Well, I think that [i]now[/i]. And maybe if I hadn't been there, to feel the draft from the big ol' BMW and seeing the jam sandwich sticker up so close, I might have thought that.. you know, if I was just seeing some "bleater's" youtoob video on my PC screen and thinking what a clever arse I am.. But at the time...

Is it only me that thinks yes it was close but no one was hurt so it doesn't really matter???

If I shot at you but missed would you report it?

Is it only me that thinks yes it was close but no one was hurt so it doesn't really matter???

How happy would you be if someone you loved got taken out by a Police driver next week in a similar move.

And you found out it was the same driver?

Always went out of my way to avoid the portsdown hill road when I lived there. A shame really as some great views but a skinny road used as a rat run and impatient drivers being held up does not make a healthy place to be on a bike.

It's my route to work. Can't see why I'd avoid it.
What's the alternative - the A27, with traffic lights and roundabouts every few yards? No thanks.

Seems like the Police Officer overtook whilst you where level with the oncoming Cyclist.

Ridiculous thing to attempt. He either didn't see you, which is unlikely because the Drivers side of the BMW was visible before the MR2 overtook as he / she was already wider than the MR2, or just wasn't paying attention.

I would not be happy if that happened to me.

[i]If you ride on the road, expect your personal safety to be seriously compromised - think singletrack![/i]
Blah blah. Guessing you only ride a bike at trail centres after having removed the bike from a rack on your Q8...

Lol, defensive bunch tonight...

I was in no way attempting to undermine the OP but just try and put across my view. It would appear that Singletrack isn't the place to have a view other than the masses.

A simple Yes or No would have suitably answered my question without the attempted wit and sarcasm.

if I was just seeing some "bleater's" youtoob video on my PC screen and thinking what a clever arse I am..

If you could point out where in my original post I used the word bleater and which bit I came across as a clever arse? All I did was ask a question.

If I shot at you but missed would you report it?

Shooting at people is illegal, dodgy overtaking moves are not... No comparison.

If I shot at you but missed would you report it?
Shooting at people is illegal, dodgy overtaking moves are not... No comparison.

If one of the 2 cars had hit DezB then that would hopefully be the charge leveled at them. Not seeing a cyclist and hitting them is like shooting somebody and claiming you didn't know they were there. It was up to you to look.

Perhaps Dez is entitled to be a little touchy or defensive as he was the one who got closest to the indecent, he's probably had to bin his favourite bike shorts too.

Causing Death By Dangerous or Careless driving is also illegal.

Indeed it is but there was no death here.

I agree the OP may have a point to be upset with the Police driver but I see no reason why me asking a question should return a reaction the way it has.

LOL...

There was no death there just as shooting and missing results in no death...fair comparison I think.

There was no death there just as shooting and missing results in no death...fair comparison I think

Nope, I'd say shooting at someone is probably illegal whether there is death or not.

I think you're rather missing the point. Whether or not the driving was so careless or dangerous as to be illegal doesn't depend on whether anyone actually died or not.

(And actually it is conceivable that shooting at someone wouldn't be a crime against the person as opposed to some sort of firearms offence, but you're in the realms of legal hypotheticals and the Spanner case).

Anyway.

Have they replied yet?

How happy would you be if someone you loved got taken out by a Police driver next week in a similar move.

AFAIK the police kill more pedestraians in car chases than there are cyclists killed by left turning lorries so it is a problem that needs to be addresed.

It's my route to work. Can't see why I'd avoid it.
What's the alternative - the A27, with traffic lights and roundabouts every few yards? No thanks.

No idea where you go to/from but I used to track the hill on the north side- an excuse for some hill training up pigeon house or Portchester lane etc! I know of two cyclist who have died along there, one was a club mate. Not their fault as taken out by drivers (one was the classic sun-in-eyes-didn't-think-it-might-be-a-good-idea-to-slow-down excuse). I did ride it when struggling for options but chose my moments and commute time was not one of them.