[Closed] That Maxxis "babes calendar" article...

Lemony,

Surely that's not just women though, think of Valentino Rossi for example, he's the god of motorbike racing, but would easily argue he's not the fastest racer.

In MTB Downhill, there's splits between who's the fastest compared to who's the most exciting to watch.

etc etc.

The biggest exponent of this loved by the forum is Guy Martin... Argably not the fastest road racer, but commands 10X the appearance money of someone like Bruce Anstey (GM btw is the highest paid TT racer by a LOT), but Bruce beat him this year. Hutchinson for example is also a low pay bloke...

It's marketing, it's character, looks of course play a part, we are humans after all and we mate with people we find attractive to look at.

It's a great shame that it's seen as a valid form of promotion and from that point the article is fair enough. However given that you only need to have a quick glance in any number of shops selling calenders to see a fairly large number of similar products featuring both ladies and men so it does sell like it or not.

The article does suffer with singling out Maxxis though, let's face it they aren't alone in this (and the author is very sheltered if they think they are) so taking one particular company to task appears to be personal. Most other tyre manufacturers (certainly ones in motorsports) use grid girls or make calenders, and more revealing ones at that. Assos and Northwave haven't been shy in using attractive women in little clothing before now either. Knog have managed to shoehorn it into advertising lights FFS.

Honestly I don't know, it just feels a bit short sighted and lacking in depth, but hey I'm not being asked to write a blog about it.

I remember when this forum used to be fun with Kylie Fridays, that French newsreader and other amusing posts from some quality people many of whom i had the pleasure of meeting....now.... this place has changed!!

kcr - Member

1 its a bit OTT to suggest that it somehow makes her look bad to use maxxis tyres

She says she feels "stupid", I assume because she's riding around prominently displaying the logos of a company which she believes is displaying casual sexism and not taking her seriously as a person. Pretty straightforward. You may disagree with her analysis, but it doesn't seem an OTT position. I wouldn't walk around in a Daily Mail t-shirt, because I dislike what they stand for and it would make me feel stupid.

Thats because the primary thing the Daily Mail does is overtly sexist and low brow. The primary thing Maxxis do is sell tyres. Its OK to say the calendar is a bit cheap and crass but it is also OTT to say that it somehow translates across the whole brand and company as some sort of institutional misogyny. Shed be perfectly entitled to feel upset if the pictures were on the tyres, but they're not.

2 if she is willing to take the position that by using a product she tacitly gives her approval to everything they do, then she'd better be very careful about a lot of other products

I can't see any part of the article where she takes the position that she is giving tacit approval to everything a company does when she uses their product. In fact, I think the whole article is about explicit disapproval of something a company has done, isn't it?
Why should she be careful about other companies? If she doesn't like something another company does, she's free to complain about it in the same way.

Thats the same thing written the other way around! And you make the same point I do - if she is going to be offended by this then she'd better not buy, for example continentals or michelins. I don't know about the rest but I would imagine you could find something to be upset about if you look hard enough. And thats just tyres. Good luck coping with the rest of life.

Yes its a crass, cheap calendar. Don't buy it then.

I remember when this forum used to be fun with Kylie Fridays

IIRC, 'Friday Kylie' got vitoed because given an inch people repeatedly took a mile.

you mean some of us are no longer teenage lads looking for one for the **** bank?

On the bright side, who'd ever heard of this Adele before now?

TBH, when I first heard about this I was thinking "she rides mountain bikes too? No bad for a big lass."

Here she is gushing over Lisa Snowdon

An image even Maxxis would draw a line at.

[img] [/img]

[b]binners[/b] - Member

[b]I'm out....[/b]

[b]POSTED 14 HOURS AGO[/b] # REPORT-POST

Who is Adele Mitchell?

Can we still be doing this when google is just a mouse click away?

Lemony - have you ever climbed abroad?
Where your in 30+ degrees?
Little or no shade?
No one cares about a sketchy top out or otherwise - its too fricking hot.

As for the BB's - it has/did change.
They made a point of yes - being on show but also climbing the routes they would climb normally, not poncing about on crap.

Stone Nudes is another - don't even think about trying to make out they are just pretty little girls on baby routes.
The likes of Lyn Hill and others have all posed for it over the years and always on very technical grades where they've needed spotters and sometimes medics whilst capturing the images.

Anyway - HUUUUUGE digress!
The woman in the original article got massive butthurt because a few girls doing something for a good cause were semi-clothed.
Guess she'd better not go anywhere warm on holiday next year.....

hats the same thing written the other way around! And you make the same point I do - if she is going to be offended by this then she'd better not buy, for example continentals or michelins. I don't know about the rest but I would imagine you could find something to be upset about if you look hard enough. And thats just tyres. Good luck coping with the rest of life.

It's funny because you're clearly pretty 'upset' and 'offended' about the article she wrote. Good luck coping with the rest of life.

Oi, boys.

The problem with sexism is that it happens in our heads too. So when you see stuff like that you think 'I should be like that too'. Unconsciously.

Consciously, of course, I am very well educated woman able to discern between reality and fairy tale and images of women all draped over stuff in their knickers instead of being shithot riders, drivers etc really annoy me.

But I know that I'm affected by social stereotyping just in my own riding. I'm pretty fast on a bike, but I feel guilty and bad and that I shouldn't be better than my OH (who's a boy, just in case you were wondering) in a secret corner of my head. That's how internalised sexism becomes. Obviously I fight it with my conscious brain...

So yes, Maxxis, get with the current century. Boring, tired and not good for the next generation of kickarse mountain biking grrlz.

[url= http://adelemitchell.com/2015/03/24/review-urbanist-bettie-cycling-pants/ ]http://adelemitchell.com/2015/03/24/review-urbanist-bettie-cycling-pants/[/url]

Possible not safe for work

So the lady promoting the wearing of a cycling specific g-string (in another post) who posts about "sexy" cycling pants on her own site (and promotes them) moans about a tyre company being stupid using sex to sell.

pot kettle black

The biggest exponent of this loved by the forum is Guy Martin... Argably not the fastest road racer, but commands 10X the appearance money of someone like Bruce Anstey (GM btw is the highest paid TT racer by a LOT), but Bruce beat him this year. Hutchinson for example is also a low pay bloke...

It's marketing, it's character, looks of course play a part, we are humans after all and we mate with people we find attractive to look at.

I see what you're saying but still disagree: Guy Martin* seems to generate his additional worth by being a very competent presenter and an engaging speaker and writer. I'm not sure I'd consider that comparable with his earning potential increased based on being willing to ride the TT circuit in a banana hammock**. This type of attitude doesn't exist in men's sport to anything like the same extent. To go back to Climbing, Magnus Midtbø doesn't outshine Adam Ondra in spite of arguably being a far more photogenic person.

*I should note that I can't stand the guy so I'm basing this on the little I've seen.

** "Obvious (and unpleasant) oversimplification is obvious"

^^

But the seller does not speak for all woman. She is doing it on the basis that sex/porn sells. That is not the way the world is now.

But the seller does not speak for all woman. She is doing it on the basis that sex/porn sells. That is not the way the world is now

Really ? Tell that to 1direction, Little mix, or any other the out hundreds of boy/girl bands over the years recently.

There definitely seems to be quite a powerful resurgence in the 'nudity as feminism' movement amongst young intelligent women..

I'm not sure if a group of middle aged men raised on razzle and the littlewoods catalogues are best placed to decide what is best for women in this fast changing computer age

Edukator - Troll

So the lady promoting the wearing of a cycling specific g-string (in another post) who posts about "sexy" cycling pants on her own site (and promotes them) moans about a tyre company being stupid using sex to sell.

pot kettle black

You can't see the difference between a female cyclist writing a review of some cycling specific underwear, and a company selling tyres by draping scantily clad models over their stuff?

Oh... sorry... my mistake.... its you. So just the usual trolling then?

Carry on 😀

Lemony - have you ever climbed abroad?

I've climbed all over the place. I've climbed with thousands of people. I've climbed in 40 degree heat.

I've [b]never [/b]seen anyone, who wasn't on the beach, climbing in a bikini (bikini top/bralet, yes but that's not really the same thing).

This thread is depressing and the forum suddenly feels like a less friendly place.

Reading her site the lady is sex obsessed. Reading her articles gives us glues as to what's going on in her head.

When your group ride grinds to a halt because one of the members breaks a chain, and the club mechanic somewhat reluctantly fixes it (because everyone is looking at him and he knows that he'll do it the quickest and get everyone under way again before they freeze) and gets his hands filthy this is what is going through Adele's mind:

Then there’s the swagger that comes on if they get to fix your bike mid-ride. Never mind that we could do it ourselves: who can deny a chap the opportunity to get his tools out? It’s a green light for him to demonstrate, with one twist of a chain link device, that with skills like this he could probably also wrestle a bison to the ground while procreating with every willing maiden between here and the next cycling-themed café.

Anyone see a problem with referring to women as 'babes'?

No?

So it would be ok for us to run this cover line on the mag when we next run a women's bike test..

'3 Babe's Bikes Tested!'

Cool as we are shooting the messenger now[ and not addressing what she said]...do we get to call her a feminazi?

A look at the Adele Mitchell's site shows an article on Glamour magazine's sportswoman of the year, with the tag line "Vote for your favourite sportswoman of the year with Glamour, and help support the fight against sexism in sport."

A quick google image search of Glamour magazine's front typical front cover shows that it panders to the very worst (often media created) stereotypical female hang ups and issues: looks, weight, sexual problems, relationship problems etc. It doesn't really scream "strong independent female"

Only if you do the bike testing in a bikini Mark!!

Dinosaurs... Dinosaurs everywhere

This thread is depressing and the forum suddenly feels like a less friendly place.

🙁

I'm sure someone will come along in a moment to explain why it's your fault you feel that way and how you need to 'lighten up'.

*sigh*

[img] [/img]

[b]TITS OOT LUV!!!![/b]

etc, etc, etc....

Its really been fun this little holiday in the early 70's, hasn't it?

Are we doing a casual racism one next week? anyway... my mate Chalky....

There are far more depressing things in the world .. [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33810338 ]Farkhunda: The making of a martyr[/url]

Some messengers lack credibility and do a disservice to the cause they adopt. Bono has supported some worthy causes but in my opinion devalues everything he touches because of his hypocrisy - encouraging others poorer than himself to give money while avoiding tax himself.

When I read Adele's article I agreed with her message, I also find many adverts sexist and ridiculous - that one where they try to sell watches with macho men flying stunts planes and object women looking decorative for example. I shouldn't have Googled and found her site because it devalued the message and I won't feel embarrassed by Maxxis logos on my tyres (though most are Michelin)

[quote=binners ]Are we doing a casual racism one next week? anyway... my mate Chalky....Does he have a wee corner shop in Inverness?
https://goo.gl/maps/wmA6ctC2uXR2

And now we have one of the worst/best examples of desperate whataboutery I've ever seen.

There are far more depressing things in the world .. Farkhunda: The making of a martyr

Yes, because rape and murder exists, anything more trivial than that is of no concern. Great point, well made. Honestly.

[quote=grum ]And now we have one of the worst/best examples of desperate whataboutery I've ever seen. And I thought you were going to refer to binners' post about racism 😥

Reading her site the lady is sex obsessed.

So she is asking for it then is she?

And I thought you were going to refer to binners' post about racism

It is quite amusing to see binners being the champion of PC here - bit of a turnaround from the Tyson Fury thread eh? 🙂

The problem with people who still live in the 70's in their heads is that they like it there. So these debates are fruitless because no amount of explanation can ever convince them their thinking is from a past era that the rest of us have developed away from. You have to wait for the lightbulb to go off in their heads and they realise why where we are now and where we are headed is better than that.

All we can do is keep pointing at stuff like the Maxxis Babes phenomena and say, 'nope, that's a bit disappointing' until enough light bulbs have fired that the marketing departments realise their market is shrinking.

Adele's column isn't going to radically change anything but it is a vital component of the nudging process that needs to be maintained to help move us all on to a better place where women are treated better than they once were. I like to hope that after all this, Maxxis marketing department may question what they do from a marketing perspective next year. Even if all that happens is some seeds of doubt are sown in there it's a start that may help with the total of nudges that will eventually lead to a change.

No idea, El-bent.

Here's one of her articles on sex and cycling:

[url= http://totalwomenscycling.com/lifestyle/group-riding-dynamics-and-the-elephant-in-the-room-14763/#LmeFg4Ao4gJxG58B.97 ] Group riding dynamics and the elephant in the room, sex[/url]

I ride in a mixed MTB group. I thought we just bumbled around like big kids getting tired and muddy.

So you have no idea? There's a thing.

Anyway why mention it then?

grum - Member

hats the same thing written the other way around! And you make the same point I do - if she is going to be offended by this then she'd better not buy, for example continentals or michelins. I don't know about the rest but I would imagine you could find something to be upset about if you look hard enough. And thats just tyres. Good luck coping with the rest of life.

It's funny because you're clearly pretty 'upset' and 'offended' about the article she wrote. Good luck coping with the rest of life.

Pardon. I'm not really. It strikes me as a fairly innocuous thing to get upset about. If I'm bothered at all its that someone who can obviously write quite well and has a modicum of intelligence would be so animated about something so trivial and in such a one sided way. Fair enough, point out the inequalities in the sport and ask the question why they feel the need to use scantily clad women to advertise (though the answer is obvious) but why single out Maxxis when they're all at it?

Its reduced to a shallow piece of forced outrage when she really could have made a decent point. The calendar really isn't outrageous, offensive or even unusual.

I've been boycotting Maxis since the 70's due to their blatantly sexist adverts........[img] [/img]

the Maxis Babes, yesterday.......
[img] https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSClFUbdvEYETJFYtrcW3uE3T4keyEQB5XZXFJElmL2PnshVqAxIA [/img]

Yes, a group ride with men is, in reality, a hormonally driven thigh-fest dance, packed with sideways glances, not-so-casual overtaking manoeuvres, one-upmanship and general strutting around for fifty miles.

Its certainly the only reason I go on them. TBH i dont agree with everything she says [ hell I barely agree with everything i say] but she is correct about this calendar.

Whether or not Adele has a penchant for writing articles on sexual attitudes in cycling or not is totally irrelevant. Play the ball, not the player. See gamergate...

Her point remains a good one. We can either live in the 21st century and show respect to women, or we can objectify them and behave like a bunch of giggling 70's schoolboys. This isn't about being PC, it is about growing the hell up and valuing 50% of the human race. If some women behave like "Ladz" that is their own individual choice and not a reason to be inconsiderate to all women.

The calendar really isn't outrageous, offensive or even unusual.

Maybe not to you. Because you're male, for a start. So not the one being defined by how good you look in a bikini. She's certainly not the only one who finds it offensive. Even you must have picked up on that by now?

why single out Maxxis when they're all at it?

Really? So if you have quick google you'd soon have a choice of *insert name of manufacturer here... BABES! calendars would you?

Off you go then! If you post them up! Then we'll have a poll and see which purveyor of rubber has got the best tits! Seeing as thats the level of intellect we seem to be now operating at.

Or maybe there won't be a huge selection, because maybe some people - maybe even tyre manufacturers - have realised its the 21st century. Who knew?

Nothing wrong with growing up. Nothing wrong with being adolescent either.

How is it inconsiderate to all women?

Some of the horses ridden round this thread are really very high.

I see that this thread hasn't really progressed beyond the 1970s...very few blokes on here seem to get it, yet the majority feel compelled to comment on the fact that a female cyclist feels patronized and insulted by the way the industry continues to project perception of her gender.

Perhaps we should leave it to the ladies of STW to debate this as they're in a far, far better position to comment on the nuances of how it is to be on the receiving end of sexism?

Group riding dynamics and the elephant in the room, sex

What an absolute, total load of bollocks.
I will not buy a ST with an Adele Mitchell article in it. Totalwomenscycling indeed. **** off.

Yes, a group ride with men is, in reality, a hormonally driven thigh-fest dance, packed with sideways glances, not-so-casual overtaking manoeuvres, one-upmanship and general strutting around for fifty miles.

I find this far more offensive and likely to put women off cycling, than a calendar that isn't even aimed at cyclists and most will never see.

I think whoever wrote the article on STW needs to just chill out a bit really. I'll possibly be buying MORE Maxxis tyres because of the calendar 😉 . Just sayin.

I've got a question for all on here who are not happy about objectifying women,

Do you not knock one out to porn ?

Too vague a question, which genre?

[quote=dragon ]

Yes, a group ride with men is, in reality, a hormonally driven thigh-fest dance, packed with sideways glances, not-so-casual overtaking manoeuvres, one-upmanship and general strutting around for fifty miles.

legend - Member

Too vague a question, which genre?

Porn with women in who are clearly being exploited and objectified.

Not dwarf porn though.... that doesn't count.

Only to porn where the laydeez dominate. 8)

yunki - Member
Dinosaurs... Dinosaurs everywhere
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Really, it was not long ago you were arguing it was no big deal to wipe your Todger around a drunk sleeping girls face while filming it.

Whilst I generally agree with the sentiment of Adele that it can be wrong in places to objectify women, I think the whole article and the manner in which the subject is approached is OTT. It succumbs to the currently annoying social etiquette of it must be an outrage when you disagree with something. Talking about going for a ride in rage and anger about it . . . Really? If that's how much an email which iscan easily be deleted and moved on from bothers you, then I think you need to reevaluate your priorities of what you worry about a bit.

Is the calendar really an outrage? No.
Is it a bit misplaced? Yeah probably.
Will there continue to be sexy calendars in general? Always.

As long the human race pro-creates, there will always be an element of sexual attraction between people, and I really don't see that going away. So her comments about the group rides are a little simplistically naive I think.

Is it a bit misplaced? Yeah probably.

I find it strange that a lot of people think the marketing is out of place and they have got it wrong.

They are a tyre manufacturer. The calendar is aimed that their principle customers.

Not a bunch of hand wringing, IT workers who ride bikes.

In the article, it seems that Adele seems to presume that mountain bikers are their primary customer and not a tiny% of the business.

The misplacement was meant more as you say, sent to mtb genre.

Aaah yeah..

true that chip! 🙂

I think I did say that it depended on how good of a friend the girl was, and how open minded/debauched your multi gender circle of friends is..

Nice contextually inaccurate slur though 🙂
I'm a bit disturbed that a conversation from over a year ago has stuck with you, have you been dreaming about it? Does your username relate to something you carry on your shoulder?

My dinosaur comment goes both ways..

Some girls like a bit of nudey fun, some not so much, some not at all..
All women are different, separate individuals last time I looked

Am I right in thinking Adele must actually follow Maxxis on twitter?

I do love the language used on this post:

Dinosaur
Objectify
Astonished

Its all very 'sensational'.

It's like an online Great Debate audience! 🙂

I havent' got time to read this whole thing now but Cougar:

But the counterpoint is, what if Maxxis had printed a companion "Maxxis Hunks" calendar? I'd be struggling (as a white heterosexual male with all the privilege that brings) to bring myself to give a shit about that.

It's about context. Women are and have been in a different sociological position to men. The relationship is asymmetrical. As a modern forward thinking feminist man you might be completely unaware of this, because it's not on your radar at all, but it's still out there.

I've got a question for all on here who are not happy about objectifying women,

Do you not knock one out to porn ?

Is this a question for the male readership?

in reality it is also objectifying men in porn too

Do you not knock one out to porn ?

. The calendar is aimed that their principle customers.

Not a bunch of hand wringing, IT workers who ride bikes.

It's about context. Women are and have been in a different sociological position to men. The relationship is asymmetrical. As a modern forward thinking feminist man you might be completely unaware of this, because it's not on your radar at all, but it's still out there.

To me, its more perception rather than context. A male calendar and a female calendar on the same page would be the same context. Just that as illustrated by Adele and Cougar, their perceptions of each are different. Adele outraged. Cougar ambivalent.

fionap - Member
This thread is depressing and the forum suddenly feels like a less friendly place.

Exactly. I imagine you probably wouldn't want to go on a forum "social" ride with a few on here, now you know they'll be mentally undressing you....

All this talk about the 70's, well I started work in an office in that era and it was common place to see calendars featuring naked/half naked wimminz. These calendars were not hidden away behind the filing cabinet, instead rather proudly displayed so everyone could be subjected to an eyeful of scarily oversized knockers with scarily oversized nipples. 😯

Did I mention the (undoubtedly male) competitiveness that accompanied any newly obtained calendar? How sad to see a bunch of adults crowing over that. 😐

It basically reads as:

Adele and a number of female STWers, my own partner included: "I'm offended by Maxxis' objectification"
Some blokes on STW: "You're wrong! How dare you be offended! I'm not offended, therefore you cannot be!"

can there be a third group who say :
" I understand you may be offended and respect that and equally respect that others may not be offended.
Thus respect that people have differing opinions on the matter without getting too depressed on the whole"

Women are omnipotent enough not to need calendars so I don't see what it has to do with them.

The real question is - why will a calendar with scantily clad women make more money for charity than just some pictures of tyres?

Is it really true that their principle customers are neanderthal outdated sexist pigs with the outlook of a teenage spotty boy?

You think of them like that. They would probably just say they enjoyed looking at attractive women in "sexy" clothing and poses.

If you went into a garage/service station work area, I guess the majority would have similar or worse displayed.

Wasn't there a thread in here a couple of years ago, that had a video of Guy Martin visiting the Orange factory? If I remember correctly, the fact that there was a couple of calendars in the welding bay that had naked women on them, offended some people so much, that they were going to boycott Orange?

I really can't see how anyone can get this upset about this.

I really can't see how anyone can get this upset about this.

Jesus wept.

I really can't see how anyone can get this upset about this.

It's just progression innit?

Look how far we've come; women given the vote; racial equality; same sex marriage.....this is just another step forward. THankfully, there have been people who cared in the past' otherwise we wouldn't have got this far

Some blokes on STW: "You're wrong! How dare you be offended! I'm offended that you're offended, but that's completely different

FTFY

Erm, doesn't really matter what men think...it's the women's opinion in this matter that really counts....and even thats problematic because they're not a homogenous group either...either way, very comical that men seem to think it's their place to say nowt wrong with the issue of women portrayed as sex objects...

Where do we draw the line?

Earlier in the thread, it was pointed out that offended lady was also bigging up Lisa Snowdon.

Now Lisa Snowdon has appeared in "glamour" calendars, Maxim, FHM etc.

She is portrayed as a "sex object".

Is she being objectified? Probably.

Is she being exploited? If so by whom?

Surely the blogger should feel as angry with Lisa as she does with Maxxis?

If the issue is

women portrayed as sex objects...

I think cheekymonkey888 got it right.

grum - Member

Some blokes on STW: "You're wrong! How dare you be offended! I'm offended that you're offended, but that's completely different

FTFY

This is bollocks to be frank. I'm annoyed at the level of censorship it implies. Who are you, Mary Whitehouse?

What if all of the perfectly respectable ladies in the offending calendar were wearing nice evening dresses? How about cardigans? What if they were all over the age of 40? Would that be empowering?

The original premise is confused and makes no sense after a little inspection other than as a kind of censorship crusade.