[Closed] That Cregan creature....

Nah, they're just about to break into some GANGNAM STYLE.

Surprised that he just gave himself up, you'd have thought he'd have run based on he'll never get out.

my work is just around the corner from the court. it was mad here this morning; armed police all over the place, helicopter up above for ages, roads all closed.

i'm not surprised he gave himself up. he knew he'd get caught sooner or later; doing what he did meant he'll achieve more notoriety and he also avoided being seriously hurt or killed himself.

I'm curious (and not trolling) to hear from the people who don't believe in punishment/retribution/vindictive based sentences such as prison. Can this man be rehabilitated? Should he undergo a non-punishment based programme instead of prison?

wrecker - examples please? Are you talking therapy?

What was the need for 5 armed cops in the court, what was he going to do?
Maybe they thought the A Team might try and bust him out!
Shame the 2 wpc's didn't have that kind of back up.
PJ.

In answer to wrecker, no idea.

That's my question really, cb. I understand that some people think that prison is expensive and doesn't work. I understand that some people aren't comfortable with "vindictive" based punishments. I want to understand what the alternative would be for clearly violent and dangerous criminals like Cregan.

Peajay...they were going to a "routine" burglary, there was no intelligence on the address they attended and if there had been an ounce or sniff of him (refuse to name him) being at the address then they would not have got sent. It came in as a straight forward burglary of which a double crewed normal response car would be sent to look into it, which tragically is what they did.

Prison doesn't work and rehabilitation (at least the systems we have in place at present) DO NOT WORK. I know this from experience, the majority of the people we are talking about are huge drugs users, like other things they have to want to stop taking the drugs, they don't want to then nothing will work. Wrecker, unfortunately who knows what the alternative is... I guess hard labour?? death? that's a huge heartfelt topic of disucssion that you are opening up! Good luck.

The way I see it, Prison serves two purposes - for some people it is a punishment, and can offer rehab/etc to re-intergrate them into society.
For others, Prison protects the public from them.
Cregan must fall into the later - and IMO should be locked up forever.

I can't see why he didn't lay on his grenade. It's got to be better than a life in prison and it would have done humanity a favour.

Hold on a minute you lot. This guy has been charged. Charged does not equal convicted.

Suggesting otherwise in such a way that potential jurors may read it (and this forum's very widely read) is contempt of court.

Not clever.

Yep - with freeagent on this.

For large number of crimes (acquisitive crime etc) it seems the prison / rehabilitation / re-education debate is open...

... but for a small minority that tick the "public safety" box, then it is lock them up until...

Hold on a minute you lot. This guy has been charged. Charged does not equal convicted.

Suggesting otherwise in such a way that potential jurors may read it (and this forum's very widely read) is contempt of court.

Not clever.

[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsHIMw1aYtHNhUceNp09CyyDhoFcG7x_Fb4qYmvAPk7NG47RALCA [/img]

FFS.

[i]What was the need for 5 armed cops in the court, what was he going to do?[/i]

he's part of a gang war in which grenades have been used to settle scores.

I imagine it was to protect him rather than to prevent him escaping.

Can this man be rehabilitated? Should he undergo a non-punishment based programme instead of prison?

Can he be rehabilitated /
possibly but we will never know because he wont be released

Non punishment based programme - I dont know what you mean but I will be surprised if you can find anyone anywhere who thinks he does not deserve punishment

nothing will ever eradicate crime so you can decide if you want to use the birch, deportation and the death penalty or if you want to try and rehabilitate.
it is more a description of the content of your heart/character than it is that you think it will work. Some want vengeance and some offer forgiveness and rehabilitation.

Some serious crimes mean you will never be set free whatever happens and this is clearly one of them [ if he is guilty]

FFS.

I'm pleased that there's a common belief that people like this should be kept away from the public.

Possibly all the armed guards are for HIS protection. Lets be honest, if we could get hold of the kit to do him over, a few of us here would have a pop & be hailed heroes for it by the public at large.

Edited to add "at large" as no doubt some of you would attempt the moral high ground and say you wouldn't.

I think the common belief is that someone like this should be taken outside and set on fire! Bit by bit of course!

In response to wrecker. I don't think anyone suggests that no criminal should go to prison ever for any crime. But there's a knee jerk tabloid stirred position that every criminal should go to prison for ever for any crime. Prison is a necessary element of preventing crime but it's not the only tool. If you treat it like it is the only tool then you point us towards the US where sentencing gets ever more punitive and the rate of crime and the prison population gets ever larger.

In the uk a large proportion of offenders are young. So presumably as people get older they either offend less or they get better at it and don't get caught, but presumably something about our policing and penal system is successful in persuading people who did offend to cease offending.

I guess it depends if you believe in the rule of law or not mu3266.

Most Police Officers would probably rather that the law ran it's course than mobs of vigilantes roamed the streets lynching suspects.

He gave himself up. He did it. Hang him. No further costs.... maybe a cheap box.

thanks for the comment maccruiskeen. I have read (here) before that prison simply doesn't work (etc etc) and that non retribution based rehabilitation should replace it. I understand this. I don't know where the line could be drawn. People committing fraud often don't cause physical (or any) harm to others; should they be subject to non-prison sentence? It's only money after all.
Burglers nearly always cause massive mental damage/stress and sometimes physical too; they must be a shoe in for jail time?

He gave himself up. He did it. Hang him. No further costs.... maybe a cheap box.

As enshrined in the principle of "Derekrides Law" ?

I'm usually fairly liberal but in the cases of people like this, I can't help but think euthanasia would be best. Not a vengeful painful killing, just a simple termination of a life that has no place in society, and instead has become a huge burden to it, with no redeeming features. I understand the arguments against capital punishment, and mostly agree with them, but what point keeping him alive?

sentencing policy can and has been politically motivated, remember all those 'harsh' sentences for 'rioters', a bottle of water-- 6 months-- etc

Then look at white collar crime-- its only money-- often can be a suspended sentence.

The message is clear, don't mess with property if you are working class.