[Closed] That BA/Vegas Aircraft Fire...

Heading to east to Korea, so heading into the dark fairly quickly

Boblo - absolutely nothing like the Manchester British Airtours disaster. Time was the biggest factor in that, and many other ground fire incidents. Trying to manoeuvre a large wide body aircraft to get it into wind enough to make a difference can take quite a while, and may need to leave the paved surface. This may also leave the slides off the side of the runway, making broken legs/ankles far more likely, and access for the emergency services more difficult.

With that much uncontained catastrophic severe engine damage there is no way to know how much loss of directional control there may have been during the abort. I think there was a CAA directive out a few years back where the latest thinking was to remain dead straight on the runway for a reject as the areas outside the runway edge are reinforced so the fire service can quickly get to all parts of the aircraft.

Landed there the night before and then paxed out on a United Airlines earlier that morning.

Missed all the hoo-ha.

On looking at the pics, hats off to the crew and airport services. Shame on those taking luggage off. Hope they get whacked with a hefty fine for endangering lives. W@nkers.

I realise that, when about to board, I put my wallet, passport and my phone into my cabin bag (and take my book out).

If I had to evacuate a plane with what remains in the pockets of my trousers, I would be incredibly dependent on the airline and/or consulate to get home, have lunch or anything else if my cabin bag never made it out alive*.

Passport, phone and wallet stay in the pockets next time, maybe...

I realise this is extremely unlikely and scarcely something to worry about.

If I had to evacuate a plane with what remains in the pockets of my trousers, I would be incredibly dependent on the airline and/or consulate to get home, have lunch or anything else if my cabin bag never made it out alive*.

I really hope that's an attempt at humour ?

My colleague at work said the same. I personally would prefer to be off the plane without my phone, passport and wallet, than on it with them, passed out through smoke inhalation and roasting alive.

I'd like to see fines / prosecutions for the muppets in this incident to make the point that while it didn't matter substantially this time, next time might be different.

I would assume that the various consulates have action plans on the shelf for these sorts of incidents, to enable those affected to get new passports, money, etc. quickly. Might be inconvenient for a short while but better than full body 3rd degree burns.

. Might be inconvenient for a short while but better than full body 3rd degree burns.

You say that but think of the crisis of losing your Facebook friends! A little singeing is surely worth it to avoid that?

My colleague at work said the same. I personally would prefer to be off the plane without my phone, passport and wallet, than on it with them, passed out through smoke inhalation and roasting alive.

The problem with bags is they can tear the escape slide causing it to deflate. So best to leave them behind along with your Stilletto's. Clearly the actual evacuation was a relatively calm affair. If people were genuinely fearful of their lives then their bags would have been the last things on their mind.

There's a world of difference between a ladies handbag, and a full wheelie bag too.

Re passports etc
BA, ESTA etc all have a record of my passport and location
My bank knows where I'm travelling (anti fraud measures )
My phone companies know where I am

So, the surveillance state might have some uses after all!

As others havesaid, I'd far rather be sorting out trivialities like a passport than a funeral.

If people were genuinely fearful of their lives then their bags would have been the last things on their mind.

How can people make an accurate assessment of the danger? The bag-carriers should be identified and locked up for the safety of the travelling public.

Duir has it regarding turning into wind. I fly a 777 sized aircraft - we no longer talk about turning into wind. These are huge aircraft. Turning on a 45m runway is a precision manoeuvre that has to be done at a slow speed. Much better to get the thing stopped, do the drills so you can make the call to evac or not.

And there was less than 5 kts wind anyway.

Some people like whoever said 'shades of Manchester' on page 1 just want to blame the crew whatever the situation. This was actually a classic case of learning from Manchester and a cracking job by all the crew and emergency services. To use a cliche - textbook.

If people were genuinely fearful of their lives then their bags would have been the last things on their mind.

Is this another illustration of how blase people have become, that they don't need to watch safety demo's because it'll never happen to them, and they can ignore the bit about leaving bags behind because it doesn't actually seem that urgent.

We need another instance where loads of people do get badly burnt because they've delayed to pick up bags, then maybe folks will start listening. Or failing that (and for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not genuinely wanting another instance with casualties and fatalities) then we need to take action against the people that ignored it to make the point and make people take notice.

It's no different in my mind to say drink driving. You know the rules; a nice crew member in a uniform told you in a safety briefing a few minutes earlier (if you listened) and they probably announced it again as they announced the evacuation. Just because it didn't matter this time - does that mean drink driving's OK, as long as you don't actually have an crash as a result?

On the money as usual

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/what-happens-in-vegas-stays-in-vegas-says-ba-20150910101818 ]What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, says BA[/url]

I fly 777's with a large carrier, who happens to fly 777 from LAS to LGW :D.

We do still consider positioning the burning engine downwind in this situation, but for all the reasons discussed, it isn't always possible.

This incident shows how quickly things deteriorate when fire is involved. The a/c was only half full - consider a full A380 with 500 pax trying to get of with their carry on luggage.

There is a video somewhere of evacuation trials on the 747 during its certification, using students. On one run, they were told the first 100 down the slides would receive a cash bonus. This created chaos inside, with people clambering over each other for the exits. I imagine a cabin full of smoke and flames would create the same effect.

if I was on a plane on fire I'd be shouting at the numptys to forget their baggage and get of the f-ing plane. I'm not shy and retiring.

if I was on a plane on fire I'd be shouting at the numptys to forget their baggage and get of the f-ing plane. I'm not shy and retiring.

I am shy and retiring but I'm not sure I'd limit myself to shouting.

Don't they have a flight marshall on board who could shoot anyone trying to leave with a carry on?

I think it's safe to say people collecting bags did not assess the risk properly. It's a fire. There's a lot of fuel about. You may be overcome by fumes very quickly. You get out as fast as possible.

I think it's safe to say people collecting bags did not assess the risk properly. It's a fire. There's a lot of fuel about. You may be overcome by fumes very quickly. You get out as fast as possible.

Hopefully there will be prosecutions.

Can we also make a pact to shoot all the lazy journalists misusing the word "heavy"? I do despair at BBC reporting.

[quote=piedi di formaggio ]I'd consider myself a 'frequent flyer'. I check where the exit is relevant to where I am sitting and check for life jacket, etc. It's a habit I've got into.

I'm currently far from a frequent flyer - haven't taken a flight for years - but did fly very regularly many years ago. I also check where the exits are. Before the safety briefing - you don't need to listen to that to know where they are or how many rows in front or behind. The safety briefing doesn't tell you the best way for you to go, and when you're in your seat watching it it's too late to see the exit 2 rows behind you. So the chap reading his paper who's just been on another flight where they've given all the same information and who checked out the exits before he sat down might well be better informed in an emergency than somebody paying rapt attention. I always put down what I'm reading out of politeness, not because the briefing is particularly useful. I suppose the Hudson River incident has shown that it might be worth paying attention to the bit about lifejackets, but TBH the chance of one being useful is incredibly tiny.

I tend to wear trousers with roomy pockets to travel, so don't need to pick up a bag to have anything important with me.

Could be wrong, but isn't there something in US aviation law that saws you legally have to comply with any and all safety instructions?

I think it's safe to say people collecting bags did not assess the risk properly. It's a fire. There's a lot of fuel about. You may be overcome by fumes very quickly. You get out as fast as possible.

Would have been shorter to write: I think it's safe to say people collecting bags are dicks

Obviously collecting bags is a dumb thing to do, but how many of us could honestly say how they'd react in that situation? I've never had to escape a burning plane...

looking at the updated bbc news article it appears people did shout at others collecting bags, clearly even that didn't work. Plus they say its unclear it there is any way people could be prosecuted or fined for doing so.

Could the overhead lockers not, errm, lock in the event of an emergency?

[edit]

I thought they'd sacked him when I read the headline...

[i]
British Airways fire pilot: 'I'm finished flying'[/i]

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34206347 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34206347[/url]

ATC said "Speedbird 2236 heavy, fire services on the way."

Heavy is part of the callsign - designates the size of aircraft by amount of wake vortices it generates (Light, medium, heavy, super).

Pilot praised as a hero...

And then he goes and spoils it all by wearing that jacket and tie!

[img] [/img]

I mean what was he thinking?

Pretty lucky that a 1990's Dr Who was flying that day. I'd imagine the skills learnt whilst fighting Darleks must have helped considerably....... 😆

Obviously collecting bags is a dumb thing to do, but how many of us could honestly say how they'd react in that situation? I've never had to escape a burning plane...

I think that's a fair point - people react to panic in many different ways.

But I do think there is a bit of a difference between instinctively grabbing a handbag on the way to the doors and actually stopping in the aisle to get your full-size pull-along cabin bags out of the overhead lockers.

Mind you, it was Vegas, maybe they were full of money...

That jacket and tie are the colours of the Wooden Spoon Society, a substantial kid's charity set up by some rugby supporters in 1983.

I do think there was some stupid people on that flight for taking luggage off with them, but if they don't get told/reminded of what to do, it be very hard to judge, Also I think we might have to blame the FAA (American CAA) for changing BA EVAC commands!
(if below is true) from tweeter!

When I became a flight attendant in 2005, our evac commands were… (2/8) #britishairways

RELEASE SEATBELTS! COME THIS WAY! LEAVE EVERYTHING! CROSS YOUR ARMS! JUMP! JUMP! (all caps b/c we’re yelling)(3/8) #britishairways

Then the FAA told us our commands were too complicated, so it changed to: (4/8) #britishairways

RELEASE SEATBELTS! COME THIS WAY! GET OUT! GET OUT! GET OUT! (5/8) #britishairways

I propose we add the LEAVE EVERYTHING back in, b/c this is BULLSH*T. (6/8) #britishairways (this had a pic of passages with red circles around the bags)

This is passengers potentially KILLING other passengers over a bag of makeup and a laptop. (7/8) #britishairways

LEAVE EVERYTHING, people. Leave everything. (8/8) #britishairways

That jacket and tie are the colours of the Wooden Spoon Society, a substantial kid's charity set up by some rugby supporters in 1983.

Well there you go, who knew. A hero and a good egg.