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You've got to hand it to the guy, Elon Musk knows how to do an unveiling. Not only does he reveal a cool artic that can do 500 miles on a single charge, but then they open the back up and out comes a secret roadster
0-100 in 4.2 seconds and a 620 mile range..... bloody hell!!
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42021713 ]BBC[/url]
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Exciting. Was just watching it, thinking 'how many STWers could find gaping holes in that?'
*edit. Third!
I saw it reported that it's more aero than a Bugatti Veyron. How can that be? Relative to its size or something?
I would like to see a collaboration with Boston Dynamics.
Breaker one-niner, we need a new slang word for this bobtail rig, over.
I think its brilliant
bitasuite - MemberI saw it reported that it's more aero than a Bugatti Veyron. How can that be? Relative to its size or something?
Probably because it doesn't require the same amount of cooling ducts and air intakes as there is no engine to feed & cool.
Woooooooo!!!!!! 🙂
That is one very impressive semi
It's the opposite of Apple, poor public speaker, but amazing products....
more aero than a Bugatti Veyron
More aero in what sense, downforce or aerodynamically efficient? With hypercars I would have thought the former is a lot more important than the latter.
It's a shame they couldn't design something where the driver could see a cyclist beside the cab... it's got less visibility to the sides and down than a standard hgv.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient
Cd is proportional to area, so what they're saying is meter squared to meter squared it's more aero than the veyron.
CdA is critical, not Cd.
It's the opposite of Apple, poor public speaker, but amazing products....
Well not really. Apple make amazing products, not sure Tesla do...yet at least. By all accounts the quality of Tesla product is a bit shoddy. My dad took one for a test drive and he wasn't impressed compared to cheaper BMW/Merc/Audi quality. I'm sure they're getting better, but for an £80k car they've got a way to go. They're lucky they're customer base is more interested in the green credentials over the product quality and happy to put up with the lack of quality and multiple warranty returns. I don't think BMW/Merc/Audi would survive long with Tesla levels of quality.
[quote=wwaswas ]It's a shame they couldn't design something where the driver could see a cyclist beside the cab... it's got less visibility to the sides and down than a standard hgv.
Quite - any truck with that little glass is shit whatever other attributes it might have. Back to the drawing board Elon.
It's the opposite of Apple,
They're not a tax avoidance company who make the occasional phone?
Sorry.... 0-100mph in 4.2 secs??? that's half a sec faster than a Veyron!
😯
🙂
Fricking awesome.
I guess those who bemoan the visibility have noticed there are no side mirrors either. I wonder what they have instead....
😉
The roadster looks phenomenal! How the hell do you keep something like that quiet in these times?
We took a Tesla taxi from Schiphol to our hotel for the Stones concert. ****nell it went fast and was almost silent. Impressive indeed.
I saw it reported that it's more aero than a Bugatti Veyron.
Well it looks smaller, cos perhaps the electric motor is smaller than whatever monster is in the Veyron. But also, they might've dialled in less downforce.
I wonder if it's lighter?
How much does the truck cost?
Impressive stuff but Tesla really do need to sort out their production issues soon rather than mask them with new product announcements. I recently watched "Revenge of the electric car" (Amazon Prime) which has a bit of a behind the scenes at Tesla in their early days, scary how close they were to going pop and it still seems the company is much more focused on R&D than production.
[i]the company is much more focused on R&D than production.[/i]
The real money is in the patents, not the products.
It's a shame they couldn't design something where the driver could see a cyclist beside the cab... it's got less visibility to the sides and down than a standard hgv.
It's got sensors all round, so won't let the driver hit a cyclist...
I love driving and I love petrol engines (well big noisy ones at least) but I can't wait for my level 5 autonomous car to take me and some friends to the most remote little country pub in the middle of nowhere then drive us home at 2am without complaining 🙂
bitasuite - MemberI saw it reported that it's more aero than a Bugatti Veyron. How can that be? Relative to its size or something?
Did they specifically say Veyron? If so it is a fairly old design.
a secret roadster
roadster? Is that as meaningless a term as "shooting brake" has become?
"A roadster (spider or spyder) is an open two-seat car with emphasis on sporting appearance or character. Initially an American term for a two-seat car with no weather protection, usage has spread internationally and has evolved to include two-seat convertibles."
I'm still waiting for one of these...
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Impressive all round
There's no question that I'd like that little roadster, but the noise is missing which is such a big part of the fun
While I admire what Elon Musk is trying to achieve, I can't help think that Tesla are trying to run, before they can really walk & spreading themselves too thin.
They should concentrate on getting that Model 30 out in numbers (IMO) before doing all this other stuff.
From the article:
The Model 3 is behind schedule due to factory delays, a situation Mr Musk described recently as “production hell”.The 46-year-old had been camping at Tesla’s Gigafactory in Reno, Nevada, to oversee battery production for the new cars. However, while the company had predicted it would make 1,500 Model 3 cars in the third quarter of 2017, in reality it only managed 260.
In car production, 1500 cars is peanuts so to only manage 260 cars in 3 months is not great.
By comparison:
from an article I found written in 2014, 1000 Mini's roll off the production line at Oxford, per day!!
And the Qashqai is produced in Sunderland at a rate of one every 62 seconds.
Tesla should sort production out of the things they have committed to & then move onto other stuff. Or decide they don't want to do a 'car for the people' type vehicle & concentrate on the whizz-bang stuff.
The next Tesla model. Strip felling is going to be back in fashion real soon.
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Did they specifically say Veyron?
Just found the [url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2017/11/16/16665266/tesla-how-to-watch-semi-truck-elon-musk ]article[/url], it's actually the Chiron. But as wwaswas says, it's the CdA that's important not Cd.
As for the roadster, is it really necessary for a car to go from 0-60 in under 2 seconds? Surely this will endanger other road users. It's all about willy waving rather than being a mode of transport.
As for the roadster, is it really necessary for a car to go from 0-60 in under 2 seconds? Surely this will endanger other road users.
I see where you're coming from but it's capability not necessity... it's perfectly possible to drive a 6s car into people/other cars, or even a 8s or 10s car. Just because it's got the capability to go really fast doesn't mean you have to use it or can [i]only [/i]go fast.
If you're going to go down that path then legally enforced maximum rates of acceleration and limited overall speed* are the logical steps, but you try suggesting cars should be lmited to 70mph and see what backlash you get, let alone limiting how quickly you can get there...
*local speed limit radio broadcast by street signs, received by car and automatically applied, why not eh?
is it really necessary for a car to go from 0-60 in under 2 seconds?
We dont really have to go down this avenue again do we?
Both great vehicles but I wouldn't want either. I like the statement they don't make in the vids which is - your old internal combustion engine vehicle is just old hat, flthy, slow, noisy and tasteless. People bought dull FWD Audis on the basis of the quattro image and people are starting to take electric cars seriously. Tesla has its part in that, thanks Tesla people.
Tesla levels of acceleration are just pointless, I note one above ventures "dangerous" and I can't disagree. When i bought the Zoé I thought I'd never use eco mode. In fact the only time I use normal is for overtaking, eco mode is perefct for driving in the flow of traffic without getting dirty looks from the passenger seat. Passengers have adapted to vehicles where noise precedes acceleration, so brace themselves. Floor the throttle in an electric car and it takes off without warning so even humble Zoé levels of go surprise passengers whose heads thump into the head restraints (audibly bcause there's no other noise).
is it really necessary for a car to go from 0-60 in under 2 seconds?
Of course not.
But:
In a petrol car, you need to make it bigger to make it go faster, and this makes it use up more fuel. So there is a significant downside to a faster car. So we think of fast as fun but naughty, and eco-unfriendly.
In an electric car, the best batteries to use also happen to have really low internal resistance which means they can comfortably deliver huge amounts of power, and if this only for a short time there's no downside. So to make an electric car all you need is to make the wires thicker and off you go.
It's a good thing that they have done this, because the petrolhead and motoring world now thinks they are awesome, which has helped the credibility no end. I can't imagine the Top Gear fan-sphere would get excited about a car with a 300 mile range that did 0-60 in ten seconds. It's a statement, and a marketing ploy - and it seems to have worked pretty well.
Edukator - Reformed TrollTesla levels of acceleration are just pointless, I note one above ventures "dangerous" and I can't disagree. ...... Floor the throttle in an electric car and it takes off without warning so even humble Zoé levels of go surprise passengers whose heads thump into the head restraints (audibly bcause there's no other noise).
I think you missed a perfectly good opportunity to tell us about your long and successful racing career along with blurry photo and quote from Bob Pipesmoke, senior assistant editor of British Hillclimb & Autocross monthly 😉
*local speed limit radio broadcast by street signs, received by car and automatically applied, why not eh?
Pretty sure they've trialled that in Sweden, as soon as you enter a 30 etc, your speed is capped.
In an electric car, the best batteries to use also happen to have really low internal resistance which means they can comfortably deliver huge amounts of power, and if this only for a short time there's no downside. So to make an electric car all you need is to make the wires thicker and off you go
The electric car's "killer app".
Now if we could just fix the charging problem.
Erm, except leadfooted customers in Teslas are finding that their batteries are degrading after only a few months use, heavy discharge rates = rapid degradation. Especially noticable in Ludicrous/bellend mode.
Much the same as heavy charging loads = rapid degradation.
ragging it = increased wear and reduced life, whoddathunkit?
Pretty sure they've trialled that in Sweden, as soon as you enter a 30 etc, your speed is capped.
oh? not heard about that one, off to google...ta
Fell free to take the Micky out of me on the basis of my forum persona, Jimjam, but I think you're wrong to take the Micky out of Russsel Bulgin. Have a read of some of his work and judge for yourself:
I found him really likeable. Edit to add: he was a cyclist, I used to turn up at events with a bike in the car and was known to ride special stages on my old touring bike at a time when pace notes weren't allowed and some knowledge of stages essential to have any chance when other drivers had done the stages my times before.
Not to this degree. they are talking something like an 8-10% drop after a few months.ragging it = increased wear and reduced life, whoddathunkit?
And how could charging it fast be "ragging it", when the whole advertising push is rapid charging (but your battery might end up knackered).
As for batteies having limited life if you "rag them", how long does an internal combustion engine and its drivetrain last if you "rag it" everywhere?
In normal use batteries last rather well (one is still going fine in a Taxi after some huge mileage - Google it). The Zoé only fast charges to 90% or so then slows down to avoid deterioration.
The Zoé only fast charges to 90% or so then slows down to avoid deterioration.
They pretty much all do that, it's thermal mgmt, as they charge they get hot, which makes them harder to charge, so they back off at about 80% and then go to a slower charge mode.
If you had a ludicrous mode that overloaded the entire system every single time you used it, not long. TBH, from what i can tell, even the standard mode is pushing it on discharge limits. That's why they don't have ludicrous modes on fuel cars. So the engine/transmission will last several years, even with ragging everywhere. (Unless you deliberately try and break it.)
Or if you tried to fill the tank twice as quick as it was designed to be capable of, you'd end up with fuel all over your trouser leg. Or maybe with the filler flexy blowing off and dumping fuel all over the floor.
Hmmm. Acellerating at 1G gives a 0-60 of around 2.8 seconds. Aero doesn't really kick in until 60mph so where does the extra traction come in? How do the tyres have coefficient of friction over 1 without wearing our in ten minutes?
I'm confused.
I have a lot of time for what Tesla (Brand, and Musk as boss) are trying to achieve.
The product isn't perfect; but then, the current crop of their electric cars are way better than the best internal combustion engine cars of just ten years ago, which had by then had over a hundred years of development. See where I'm going wit this...?
Unlike many commentators, I've been very lucky indeed to be inside a Tesla Roadster on the Lotus test track with one of their drivers at the wheel. An experience which would probably be sufficient to convert most sceptics. The level of performance that is available is so high that even a modest percentage of it is exhilarating; driven sensibly, this range of cars last very well indeed and also need charging much less than the doom-sayers suggest...
I wonder if it'll log you out as often as STW does... (having logged back in again)
I like the Truck idea, the car is pointless. No reason to produce cars that have inane 0-60mph speeds in a modern 21'st century... simply pointless cock waving and has no real place on any roads other than Race Tracks.
The Truck though is impressive, the lower slung cabin is a bonus to other road users, that has to be celebrated .. because we all know current Truck design is lead by morons masquerading as wallpaper paste designers who use nose bleeds are success criteria.
Assume the Truck can be remotely controlled too, hope there are some smart ethically minded software designers out there than limit the speed to regulate it in ALL scenarios. Happy to see a punishment 240v to the driver should they drive like dicks and maybe they'd learn that they don't own the road, simply use it like the rest of us.
We have 3 Teslas at the sailing club, bought by the A typical Tesla driver.. self important twonks who wear M&S check shirts and expect to be able to park in Disabled Bays even though there full able bodied. Easy to spot them... Yaking away in corners fiddling with dinghy control mechanisms shouting at themselves.
ghostlymachine - Member
If you had a ludicrous mode that overloaded the entire system every single time you used it, not long. TBH, from what i can tell, even the standard mode is pushing it on discharge limits. That's why they don't have ludicrous modes on fuel cars. So the engine/transmission will last several years, even with ragging everywhere. (Unless you deliberately try and break it.)
Never had an ICE car with launch control then? They generally don't recommend you use it regularly because it will hammer the transmission.
Braking G-froce on the telemetry of competition saloon cars reaches over 1.3G. Traction control can be set to get similar G to braking G assuming theres a surplus of torque on hand (which there is).
If you had a ludicrous mode that overloaded the entire system every single time you used it, not long. TBH, from what i can tell, even the standard mode is pushing it on discharge limits. That's why they don't have ludicrous modes on fuel cars.
That's why Teslas aren't made by normal car companies, but by a tech startup.
Edukator - Reformed Troll
Braking G-froce on the telemetry of competition saloon cars reaches over 1.3G. Traction control can be set to get similar G to braking G assuming theres a surplus of torque on hand (which there is).
I'm assuming some of that is down to the aero that exists at their cornering speeds. Any way 1.3G= 41.6ft/s/s
So to get to 88fps takes 2.1 seonds in a situation with mostly minimal aero. I'm still suprised by the 1-9 seconds claim. Obviously I'm missing something.
The 0-100 of 4 seconds is a lot more convincing. 147 fps at 1g takes just over 4 seconds so the aero will have a much higher effect.
[quote="bensales"]Never had an ICE car with launch control then? They generally don't recommend you use it regularly because it will hammer the transmission.Yes, dozens. They basically play with the margins on shifting durability and quality. So it takes your 250000km transmission to something like 240000km, also reduces life of engine mounts and certain parts of the driveline. I think its BMW that have a counter on theres so you can only use it a certain number of times between services, some others may do as well. Certainly doesn't result in a measurable loss of power while still under warranty.
[quote="molgrips"]That's why Teslas aren't made by normal car companies, but by a tech startup.You mean they won't be around long enough to worry about warranty? Or is it because people just keep giving them money? Or possibly as they've not yet had to deal with a lawsuit for selling shonky cars?
Or is it because people just keep giving them money?
Basically.
They don't have a legacy brand to look after and aren't competing with all the other manufacturers to produce reliable fleet cars or cheap but decent superminis for your first car etc etc. They have a very narrow market segment, and are still trading on the novelty factor.
They are gambling that they can use this to create brand image, and then from that move on to cheaper cars by increasing economies of scale. VW wouldn't gamble everything on that, but it doesn't matter if Tesla do.
Then when Tesla get everyone used to the idea of electric cars and start to drive down the cost of batteries (this is decent sized IF) other manufacturers can join in without having had to front any of the risk.
All working out very nicely so far, let's hope it works out.
Don't most "launch" systems overload components?
I remember the Nissan GTR had trouble with its gearbox for similar reasons... and I know the McLaren P1 would do the same after speaking to someone who worked on it. They aren't designed for 100% throttle to be used very much.
both semi (s****) and roadster sound promising.
With regard to the roadster specifically (as I like a fast car) , IMO there's more to sports cars than just straight line acceleration , handling is as important (often more so) as straight line speed/acceleration.
The tesla P100D which is very fast in a straight line, has been slated for its handling, and couldnt manage more than ~3 minutes quick driving before it went into limp mode due to overheating components. I think it managed a 10 minute lap of the nurburgring.
I know Its not really marketed as a sports car, but still, the performance figures are a big selling point for it, but they dont say it can only sustain that performance for 3 minutes ....
This roadster will need to be able to be a proper rounded sports car, not just a one trick (and only for 3 minutes) dragster to take significant sales off the current supercar manufacturers.
Lets hope it does , as the more competition there is, the lower prices of these sort of things will become.
As an aside , my cheapo li ion brushless RC car gets mega hot in 3 minutes as well, same problem I guess.
[url=
Girls[/url]
This roadster will need to be able to be a proper rounded sports car, not just a one trick (and only for 3 minutes) dragster to take significant sales off the current supercar manufacturers.
But the previous car had more than one trick. It's electric, and helping to bring in a transport and perhaps environmental revolution. Bugatti aren't doing that are they?
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and helping to bring in a transport and perhaps environmental revolution
I think for most buyers of sports cars that sort of thing is secondary to the performance (not just straight line) of the car.
Maybe the roadster will be able to use all its performance for more than 3 mins -i hope it can, and buyers can be bask in the glow of having a really fast well handling sports car that isnt simultaneously killing the planet.
The point i was making is that a headline number on its own does not a sportscar make. You could be forgiven for thinking that though because of the industries fixation on 0-60 times. I guess its an easy to measure,easy to understand metric .
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I can't work out if he was impressed or not 😉
There are now at least four electric car owners on this forum, including the site owner. I haven't seen a negative comment posted by any of us. THey do what it says on the box with no fuss.
Other manufacturers were there before Tesla but as they were ICE players there was little or no incentive to make electric cars more attractive than the ICE ones. They were pandering to the green lobby, their governments, legislators more than presenting a new transport philosophy. Tesla set out to make an electric car better than an ICE car and they've done it by any objective measure.
molgrips - Member
This roadster will need to be able to be a proper rounded sports car, not just a one trick (and only for 3 minutes) dragster to take significant sales off the current supercar manufacturers.
But the previous car had more than one trick. It's electric, and helping to bring in a transport and perhaps environmental revolution. Bugatti aren't doing that are they?
Mol looks like he's locked into his own "save the planet"' "it's a revolution I'm telling you" thought locker.
Electric cars like this one only appeal to those that think they can go faster than anyone else, it's simple.. make a fast car fast and only people with enough cash to buy one can drive it.. thereby creating a Brand based on Image and nothing to do with saving anything.. We've constantly done the "saving the planet" crap to death and one day you'll realise vehicles like this have absolutely nothing to do with saving anything other than us less wealthy from buying into a Brand based on Image alone. The wealthy care less about anything other than being seen in a fast car like this, and have pictures taken of them in it/driving it or getting out of it.
I've said many times on threads like this and I'll say it again... Let Musk come to the market with a mass appeal, mass produced, ethically sourced transportation system that can benefit all.. then put the infrastructure in to cope...
Until then...IMO..., it's just a vanity project to lure the wealthy into the Brand, a Brand based on Speed and Thrills from an electric powered car.
[b]bikebouy[/b], my dad bought himself a 2nd hand Tesla Model S a couple of weeks ago. Can you accurately a) describe his personality to me; and b) describe his reason(s) for buying it? Thanks.
As for 0-60 times:
Why, you unsure who he is and what his personality is?
I'd go have a word with him if I were you.
As with most things there are as many reasons for buying as there are buyers.
For the Zoé mine were:
Les CO2, no pollution at the point of use, less pollution over life cycle and recycle, no noise pollution. It's consistent with having a surplus from my solar panels
The drive, it's a delightful little thing. I didn't want to give the one they lent me back so I ordered one.
But mainly so I can be all smug and self-righteous on STW. 8)
Why, you unsure who he is and what his personality is?
Oh, come over all shy now, have you?
No, just wondered why you didn’t know your own fathers personality and his reasons for choosing a Tesla, I guess you don’t speak very often.
I can pop round if you like..
Have they done a campervan yet?
Somebody I know has just been killed by a guy in a Tesla. I’m sure his family will be delighted to hear a faster one is on its way.
rene59 - Member
Have they done a campervan yet?
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-tesla-camper-mode/
I love Elon Musk, he strikes me as being on the cusp of turning into a Bond villain.
The world needs people with his ambition, just don't let him get his hands on an extinct volcano cave for his HQ
[url= http://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/news/motor-mouth-the-inconvenient-truth-about-teslas-truck ]Canadian driving site alleges numbers don't add up for the truck[/url]
It will add an interesting new aspect to the ‘which 56mph limited truck is the fastest’ game that is so popular on the A1.
Without folk like tesla pushing the limits of what is possible electric car development would be much slower
Musk made it clear to me at least that the 30min charge was not from flat to full, it corresponds to what a driver would need to charge between stops, for example when loading or unloading. He's not a great speaker but in my mind at least it's the ide that 30min charge covers the range to the next (legally obligatory in Europe) rest stop or load/unload.
As for a journalist who writes "one must be au courante". Yes sir you really are "running water".
ranksinatra - MemberI love Elon Musk, he strikes me as being on the cusp of turning into a Bond villain.
Perhaps he already is a Bond villain. Ever think of that? What if Neuralink is actually a device that will allow him alone to control millions of autonomous cars and trucks and buses with his brain, and Space X is intended purely to create a moon lair to hide in?
What if all he's doing is waiting until all cars are fully autonomous and running Tesla software, then he flies off to the moon and unleashes a "Maximum Overdrive" type scenario unless the world pays him a Jillion dollars?
Makes you think.
Agreed, there is no doubt the mans got vision and the investors to fund it.
Wild claims are his prerequisite, his modem operandi so to speak.
But that truck needs a small service station, the size of your local Petrol Station, to charge one vehicle at a time in his estimated time from flat to full.
If he’s going to build these too, then I’m going to support his mighty endeavours, but he’s going to need a small planet of powerstations to provide the sparkly bits.
Maybe he should build a spaceship to collect solar radiation in a net, convert that to sparkles and wave a big wand around held in his left hand whilst gabbling on a podium and gesticulating to us with his right hand and proclaiming “you’ve got no vision”
Sadly pragmatism prevails.
Subsidies from US government and very poor quality control what could go wrong?