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deformation of character
Stretching things a bit, surely.
deformation of character?
As a kid I once stuck some Star Wars figures in a vice and crushed them beyond recognition.
Thankfully I was below the age of criminal responsibility otherwise a charge of Deformation of Characters might have ensued
Thankfully I was below the age of criminal responsibility otherwise a charge of Deformation of Characters might have ensued
What's the statue of limitations on that?
Quite liking the new Porsche
30,000 orders already.... Wow!
I suspect it's going to pretty epic.
Stretching things a bit, surely
Repeated attempts at describing my character negatively on a public website is not a stretch. Perhaps he should give me the benefit of the doubt, or PM me asking my intention if as a mod he feels I’m trolling, but i’m not and he didn't.
As I said before, my opinion is that as a Mod he’s an even greater responsibility not to promote this behaviour.
Anyway, can we continue nicely with this quite education thread?
IMO, this sort of thing is the future for commuters - especially when they can make them autonomous.
You'll either leave you family car on the drive or rent one when you need one.
We're already in a car club for our "second" car, which can be a van if we need one. Despite having a £200 a year charge before you even look at rentals, it's still cheaper than a second car.
Repeated attempts at describing my character negatively on a public website is not a stretch.
You seem to have missed the joke. Defame = saying bad things. Deform = changing the shape of something (i.e. stretching things).
I'm sold that EV is better for the environment than an ICE.
But with the reduced costs of driving, our roads will be even more congested.
Simply swapping out an ICE to EV is not the complete answer. We need to think how we travel and own cars. Perhaps in the future they'll all be autonomous and you just hail one that is going by.
I'd quite like a Tesla though. It's not often I need to drive further than the range and if I do I'll just rent a car using the huge savings I'm making not running an ICE
Cough!
New EV Corsa.... £26k
Yep, you read that right.
£26k for a chuffing corsa.
This small car EV market is ripe for ripping the cash out of those who think “I want a car, billy down the road said his corsa is nice, let’s git one of em’”
Mugs.
Agreed, I just don’t have time right now #slighltyskewededinburhgdefence
There you go you admitted yourself you're winding people up deliberately. You'll notice all I pointed out was you were trying to get a bite no name calling or slating you.
As a mod and forum user I'm free to point out what some people are doing.
No Drac, no where in that sentence does it state that "I'm winding people up deliberately" so I did not admit to that at all.
Furthermore the post to which I referred to with the sentence...
Agreed, I just don’t have time right now #slighltyskewededinburhgdefence
... is this one
Do you have evidence of that? Where? I mean, if they are shipped into a container back to China, fixed, sent to the factory etc thats also and eco negative. Why aren’t they fixed locally avoiding all that and also boosting the local mechanical workforce, an ICE based industry that’ll need to move with the times?
If you want to promote Tesla as properly eco you need to do your research on everything, not just fuel and performance.
Which as you can see is loaded with question marks, because I'm asking the questions, and admitting I am doing so because I don't have the answers, and the reason for that is I didn't have time to research it. I am asking this questions of those more learned or researched or that have more time on their hands to do so.
You've made an assumption that I posted it to wind people up, when the fact of the matter is that its a genuine ask for information. On that very assumption, you've then chosen the defamation of character route.
You are wrong on your assumption of my intent, and you should apologise in the same way you chose to defame - publicly here
As a mod and forum user I’m free to point out what some people are doing.
Of course you are, yet with caution in case you should make incorrect assumption and with a vocabulary that does not cause offence. I refer you to Marks guidance.
The autonomous driving would be a big draw for me actually. Obviously I’d prefer it to drive itself completely, but it’d be nice to be able to have it take over for a minute on a quiet stretch of motorway whilst you eat a sandwich, stretch, rub your eyes, fetch a kid’s toy etc etc.
Although I didn’t realise it was an extra cost option. I might not spec it if it costs more than a few hundred.
I think the current Tesla range (S, 3, X) come with adaptive cruise and keep-in-lane as standard*. aka 'Autopilot' - these options will keep the car in the lane, steer at speed around most corners, and a pre-set distance from the car in front. Just the sort of thing to have if you need to pick up that toy from the footwell.
It also includes collision avoidance which will try and avoid motorway side-swipes as well as forward collisions.
The Full Self-Driving (FSD) option at £5,800(!) adds auto-parking (parallel and perpendicular reversing), automated motorway lane change (with confirmation from driver while regulatory approval is sought in the EU and UK), navigation on autopilot (car automatically joins motorway, navigates on the motorway changing lanes as necessary, and leaves the motorway when needed), and the promise/lure of remote summoning your car in a car park, red light warning/braking, and maybe one day autonomous driving with supervision.
*Tesla change the included features on occasion.
[edit] @FuzzyWuzzy, sorry, didn't see you'd answered this already.
You are wrong on your assumption of my intent, and you should apologise in the same way you chose to defame – publicly here
I am sorry you felt offended by me saying you were trying to get a bite.
Interesting reply Drac, let’s leave it there with the double standards available for everyone to see and move on.
Cough!
New EV Corsa…. £33k
Yep, you read that right.
£33k for a chuffing corsa.
This small car EV market is ripe for ripping the cash out of those who think “I want a car, billy down the road said his corsa is nice, let’s git one of em’”
Mugs.
FITM because this time I checked the Vauxhall website instead of watching Carwow Vid..
£33k.
Yep....
Does anyone else on here have a model 3.
My SO will pick one up (SR+) next week to replace a MB. Looking forward to it.
I've had a Model S for a while now. I've driven a few other (non-EV) cars in the same period and each time I cannot wait to get back into the Model S. Last year I did weekly commutes of 200 miles or so each way. Using the SuperChargers on those trips was great - nice 10-30 minute stop partway through the journey to take a wee and have a tea. Probably already been commented on, but there's rarely any need to add more charge than you'll use in getting to your next charger or your destination. Most times I took longer sipping hot tea than charging to the necessary level took.
Why get a Model 3? We didn't want another diesel or petrol car after having driven an electric. We tested an IPace and a Kia eNiro before settling on the 3.
Would likely have got the eNiro - nice to drive, cheaper than the IPace, viable as a regular day to day car. Sadly, you can't buy them or even order them with any guarantee of getting one in 2020. And the Model 3 price isn't too different.
The Jaguar was fairly plush. High up. 'chunky'-feeling. But so many buttons and switches and stuff all over the place in the cabin!
Both the Kia and the Jaguar had very weak regenerative braking, even in their 'high' settings, compared to the Tesla's default. This just felt weird - like when you get into an automatic after driving a manual and it 'creeps' forward in drive.
To the OP, try a Model 3 if you can. You might prefer the 320d. But based on my experiences I have no idea why that would be so.
Madame just said the Model 3 was the third best selling car in the UK last month. I don't know where she got that from but she's always right so you can argue with her if you disagree.
Indeed it was.
<p class="p1"><span class="s1">Most popular new cars in the UK in August</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">1</span><span class="s2"> Ford Fiesta – 3,978 registrations</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">2</span><span class="s2"> Volkswagen Golf – 3,439</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">3</span><span class="s2"> Tesla Model 3 – 2,082</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">4</span><span class="s2"> Ford Focus – 1,886</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">5</span><span class="s2"> Mercedes-Benz A-Class – 1,880</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">6</span><span class="s2"> Ford Kuga – 1,770</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">7</span><span class="s2"> Volkswagen T-Roc – 1,685</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">8</span><span class="s2"> Volkswagen Tiguan – 1,632</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">9</span><span class="s2"> Vauxhall Corsa – 1,592</span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s3">10</span><span class="s2"> Ford Ecosport – 1,477</span></p>
Oh FFS!
I imagine you know someone who knows how to clean that up a bit? 😆
And here's what I got when I posted the above:
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The server encountered a temporary error and could not complete your request.
Please try again in 30 seconds
I’ve had a Model S for a while now
Test drove a 75D about 18 months ago. Really really liked it but the model 3 just feels tighter and more nimble. Interesting to see which you prefer to drive.
The Jaguar was fairly plush. High up. ‘chunky’-feeling. But so many buttons and switches and stuff all over the place in the cabin!
Agreed, I'm really used to the screen now - love the minimalism of the 3. All those buttons and dials feels OTT, guess that's the advantage when you can design a car from a clean sheet.
^^^
A bit like a golf buggy with an iPad 😀
A Tesla Model 3 is top of the list for the replacement of my current vehicle but i'm a bit apprehensive about the touch scree. My experience of touch screens with sat nav's and in car systems is they are no good in cars as its harder to hit buttons when the car is moving as your hand moves as the car moves up and down. touch screens are not very popular in aircraft cockpit design for this very reason...the risk of inadvertently hitting the wrong button (happens with my current touch screen in car system when changing radio stations) and not having that positive confirmation that you've hit and activated the button without having to take your eyes off the road...or sky...to look. Also I can imagine that simple things like diverting the direction of the airflow from the vents being operated by multi touches of a touch screen will become very tedious and annoying pretty quickly. Maybe the whoopi cushion function makes up for all those things.
I'll obviously reserve judgement until I get a chance to test drive one, but I much prefer the Jag in every way, and you can get better lease deals on them, especially the dash featuring proper buttons, but it's just too big and SUV like for me so already discounted...my wife already has an SUV so no need to have two on the drive.
Yeah I'm surprised the voice control is apparently so crap, would seem the logical thing to get working well if you don't want to add more knobs & buttons.
The undeniably good thing about the i-pace is it isn’t built in the UK. It’s built in Graz, Austria. By a company who know what they’re doing when it comes to building EV.
Still a shit looking vehicle though, so some things never change.
All it needs is a new grill, new tail design, better designed rear and it could pass for a decent option.
As is, it’s screwed together well...
Well we know how to screw cars together in the UK pretty well, just as well if not better than any other country in the world looking at the production at the various Japanese plants in the UK which are acheiveing world class levels of product quality and production efficiency. It's not 1970's British Leyland anymore. And assembling an EV is no different to assembling an ICE car. These things come designed to be bolted together like lego kits intended that the 'skill' of the assembler doesn't influence the quality of the product.
As for the aesthetics, well that is in the eye of the beholder but to my eye the iPace is the best looking EV currently available. It receives rave reviews especially about its interior and aesthetics, so it seems their product design team have done a pretty good job with it. If only it was a bit smaller and compact it'd be the top of my list.
🤷♂️
JLR innit.
JLR innit
Ohh i dunno, they make a decent tea bag. How much harder can a car be?
I visited the Audi plant near Heilbronn and can assure you that fit and finish still depends on the 'skill' of workers. Some parts of the works were full of robots but the assembly was based on cars moving through stations where bits were added by hand (with various devices to make it easier and reduce the physical effort needed). The workers were trained to work on several stations and changed regularly because that way it was less mind-numbingly boring and they did a better job.
As for the aesthetics, well that is in the eye of the beholder but to my eye the iPace is the best looking EV currently available.
Agree, front-on it's a bit "meh" but all other angles I like it. It's a pity it's so pricey (lease deals seem OK to be fair although there's a lot more options to get stung by than with a Tesla)
LR innit
Ohh i dunno, they make a decent tea bag. How much harder can a car be?
Every owned one?
My dad's had two (XJ and currently an XF Sportsback) and a mate has had one (XF Sportsback). equally as good as the BMW's, Audi's and MB's they each had before. Drove better, nicer interiors, equally as screwed together.Like I said before, they're not 1970's BL.
I visited the Audi plant near Heilbronn and can assure you that fit and finish still depends on the ‘skill’ of workers. Some parts of the works were full of robots but the assembly was based on cars moving through stations where bits were added by hand (with various devices to make it easier and reduce the physical effort needed). The workers were trained to work on several stations and changed regularly because that way it was less mind-numbingly boring and they did a better job.
I've visited many car assembly plants - spent many hours in them while studying Manufacturing Engineering, and if the 'skill of the assemblers' matters then the manufacturing engineers haven't done their job properly. Once you get on the assembly line floor its all about banging them out...a car rolling off the production line every 30 seconds or so...there simply isn't enough time for fettling at each station.It's about engineering out the variability so absolutely no need for fettling. fettling introduces variability and poor quality. Forget the myth of craftsmanship..that's fine for a one off thing, but for mass production craftsmanship or skill doesn't come into it. The car is broken down in to packages of tasks that take 30 seconds to accomplish...not 29 seconds or 31 seconds, and fully completed modules are delivered to the assembly line just in time and the assemblers simply offer them up and bolt them in while the vehicle is still moving on the transfer line. No fettling required.
My dad’s had two (XJ and currently an XF Sportsback) and a mate has had one (XF Sportsback). equally as good as the BMW’s, Audi’s and MB’s they each had before. Drove better, nicer interiors, equally as screwed together.Like I said before, they’re not 1970’s BL.
Just for balance.... I know a number of people with Range Rovers and they've had umpteen problems and every one them has replaced them with other makes as soon as they could.
Yup Landrover is still a bit poor they're notoriously unreliable and despite taking only 30 seconds to add in parts they get it wrong.
the assemblers simply offer them up and bolt them in
Which requires skill to do in the time allowed. If your tailgate shuts with a nice equal gap at the right depth then someone had the skill necessary to get it right in 30 secs. Mine doesn't (Renault). I was amused to see rubber hammers being used to udge things into line.
With an EV, the mechanical simplicity means it is much more robust, there are many many less things to wear out, the big bits are actually really easy to replace (compare the complexity, difficulty and time required to say change a set of pistons in an engine to changing a battery cell in a battery….).
Electronics wear out too and can be very expensive to replace. The touchscreen control module used by Tesla has been designed in a way that pretty much guarantees failure after a few years. Kind of an auto-bricking feature, makes me wonder if they didn't hire their engineers from Apple.
https://insideevs.com/news/376037/tesla-mcu-emmc-memory-issue/
We’ll certainly get an EV at some point since the range is now fine for even the 350mile (single day) trip to in-laws MrsG does to father in laws every week. Although as a (self confessing person interested in driving) they have no appeal other than as white goods. Also how about someone making an estate not a SUV / saloon / hatchback.
Wobbliscott, Suggesting the operators have no skill rather elevates the production engineer's and designer's skill at their expense. I can only imagine your experience in a production environment is limited.
TBF, the Zoe is the best looking electric car at the minute, as has been for a few years. Get a bigger battery and a bigger motor in there, could be fin.
The Model 3 looks like a car that's been designed to not advertise any car - aka a generic 'car' shape that a kid will design. I spotted on on the motorway a couple of days ago, bland it certainly is for the money.
Not being funny, but £30k plus for a car is way above anything than most folk can afford - it's for lease hire - not for a 'purchase'.
TBF, the Zoe is the best looking electric car at the minute, as has been for a few years. Get a bigger battery and a bigger motor in there, could be fin.
The new Zoé with a 50kWh battery and more powerful motor is in my local showroom next month. 🙂
The bigger range on the Leaf/Zoe has got me interested them but it’ll depend on delivery times on ID3.
At last BMW have announced their full electric 3 series (ok i4)
Hopefully will be the first EV to show tesla how to do things properly.
**** me, that grille 😂
Thanks for posting that! Apart from the fact it’s ugly as *** from the front, it’s interesting that they’re operating a combined ICE/EV assembly line. VW has emptied entire factories and put them to 100% EV production.
Don’t worry in reality the production car will be pretty normal
**** that is ugly.
pls ignore
It seems that Polestar have already introduced a car that's better than the Tesla Model 3, FunkyDunc. And it's nowhere near as ugly as that i4. And I'm afraid that while we know it's a concept, BMW's form on design lately, especially when it comes to grills, has been awful.
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/polestar/2
I think established manufactures will quickly catch up and take over Tesla in terms of the actual product. Tesla might still remain if they can continue to innovate, but as we've seen with other products and industry sectors it's hard/impossible to continually innovate and wow people...even the once mighty iPhone is slipping from it's perch. I test drove a Model 3 last month and was disappointed. Sure it's quick in a straight line and handles....just like a normal car...perfectly composed and adequate, but wasn't wowed by the handling and the rest of the car was just a bit bland and I hated the big iPad. Then the sales experience was not great...no sales men, so no bargaining and getting deals, rubbish finance deals...the whole take it or leave it thing, which is great on a product that costs a few hundred quid, but win a £40 - £50k car you want and need a bit of attention. All subjective I know, but that's cars. Just not for me.
Those who have been in the business alot longer know how to design cars, know what people want and can industrialise the manufacturing process and make money and offer great deals and finance options and flexibility will ultimately win out. Disruptors in the industry bring some nice little ideas to the table and challenge the norms, but those little touches can easily be replicated and improved upon, and they can leapfrog the disruptors and become the innovators themselves.
Those who have been in the business alot longer know how to design cars but often dont bother putting the effort in.
FTFY
Still with grills and wet cooling systems? I is disappoint.
I was last in a BMW dealership in 1996, just after I joined the RAF. I was in the market for a new car. The utter disdain for me by the sales staff made we walk out and swear to never return.
I bought a SAAB 9-3 coupe from next door. They opened the car, let me crawl over it and made me a coffee.
I’ll never buy a BMW.
The Polestar2 however......
Re Tesla - I heard from industry sources but haven't researched this, that Tesla are quietly taking over the "home battery" market. As is stands things like solar panels are relatively inefficient, especially of course when the sun goes in. Yet Tesla have design home/inside infrastructure smart batteries which can harness incoming energy, store it and use it at peak periods, during grid shortages or timed with The Grid to supplement / reduce draw in it at appropriate times. Allegedly this may be Tesla's real future.
You're talking about the Tesla Powerwall, and I suspect they're betting big on that. Not only great for homes where solar is sufficient if stored locally, but they have a utility product for storing alongside a solar farm, backup, etc.
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
It seems that Polestar have already introduced a car that’s better than the Tesla Model 3
Not seen that before, looks interesting!
Tesla is all about the battery, drive train and 'autopilot' tech - they've done remarkably well turning into a fully fledged car company in a short space of time but their customer service and the car as a complete package certainly leave a lot to be desired. I'm surprised none of the big manufacturers did a licensing deal with them (for batteries and drive train), wasn't that Elon's original goal? Perhaps they have but aren't shouting about it.
The Polestar2 is interesting, I figured it would be £65k+ i-Pace territory, at £50k (with decent options) it's certainly going to compete with the Model 3. I wonder what the customer service/backup is like though, aren't they a separate company from Volvo or are they going to use their dealer network? It's one thing to set up some new experience centres in cities to market the car (a la Tesla) but is that the service network as well? It might not need an oil change but Tesla has demonstrated there's still a fair bit that can go wrong (hence why they do so poorly in reliability surveys), if Polestar was backed by the Volvo servicing network it would be another big factor in their favour.
Then the sales experience was not great…no sales men, so no bargaining and getting deals, rubbish finance deals…the whole take it or leave it thing, which is great on a product that costs a few hundred quid, but win a £40 – £50k car you want and need a bit of attention. All subjective I know, but that’s cars. Just not for me.
I can see your point, but surely the reality of their business is they can't build them quick enough to satisfy the demand therefore it's a sellers market? I wonder if you could skip the waiting list if you went in with a coffee for the salesperson and started haggling upwards on the list price.
[not a tesla fanboi, just intrigued by the level to which they polarize opinions]
Another person interested by the Polestar- looks nicer, interior more interesting, potentially better build quality than tesla m3. But more money and less range according to autocar. I also really struggle to see how for a national business user, anything but the tesla charging setup would work. As has already been said above a national system of >99Kw chargers with either one membership app or contactless and live feedback on availability is needed to be agreed for all the other manufacturers to compete.