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If it's any consolation they are looking into the wiper issues:
https://electrek.co/2019/10/14/tesla-deep-rain-neural-net-automatic-wipers/
Bit of overkill you could say - an infrared sensor sounds a lot simpler.
I've got the Model S - go for it, you wont regret it ever!! Especially when the Easter Eggs drop!! They are fantastic cars! Do it!!
Disclosure, I live about 20 miles from the Fremont, California factory so I could see owning one in the UK might be a slightly different proposition. That and the price is more £££ I guess.
No, pretty much the same experience I've had in the UK. Pricing is actually pretty competitive over here now too. At one point the performance models were even cheaper over here for some reason.
The former is a good gauge of the quality of the rest of the car. The latter tells you where it’ll start to rust. All of my BMWs have been damn near perfect for the former, but Mu mini had a poorly aligned rear door – it leaked as the seal wasn’t properly engaged My Z4MC had stupidly thin pain on the inside of the rear hatch…that’s where it rusted. A mate’s Mazda 3 had paint so thin on the shut lines of the doors that it was rusting noticeably at 3 years old.
Okay, so I've looked closely at the panel gaps on my 2018 Model X and they are considerably more consistent than the ones on our Nissan Qashqai (which are actually quite poor in places). Actually I remember when we bought the Model X, the car they had in the showroom at the time (mid 2017) had appalling panel fits - worst I've ever seen and unacceptable. I spoke to the sales manager about it and he told me newer cars being delivered were much better. I took it with a pinch of salt and waited a few months until they replaced their showroom car. Lo and behold the next batch of demo cars they had were much better. To the point that panel gaps were a non-issue. Following the Tesla forums at that time backed up this observation, along with dozens of other improvements they made to the car over that period. So I finally ordered one in Oct 17 for a Feb 18 delivery. 30k miles later it's never missed a beat. Sample of 1 I know, but it is my real personal experience.
As for paint thickness, the finish on my pearl white is as good as anything I've had before (including Porsche and BMW) and it's all aluminium so I don't see it rusting! I admit I haven't actually measured the paint thickness, but I'm not really concerned about it. As an overall car it is a sublime way to waft around. It feels quicker than my 911 C4S due to the response/instant torque and the UI is a million times more advanced and functional. So I wouldn't think twice about ordering a Model 3 based on my own experience with Tesla.
Nearly everyone saying Teslas are junk are really trying to convince themselves that their Merc, Audi, Porsche, BMW, Jag, RR is still a better car. Yet the vast majority of people who buy a Tesla coming directly from those marques do not choose to go back, me included. In fact it's pretty common to buy a Tesla and then quickly end up replacing all your other cars with a Tesla or other EVs too, which is what we are in the process of doing in the next year. That must tell you something and perhaps gives you an idea why Tesla are disrupting the market. They are not perfect by any means, but they are doing a lot of things that traditional manufacturers had totally missed.
My brother has one (and probably the extended range software if I know him) but he often uses one of his other cars because of the potential hassle of having to find somewhere to charge it.
That must tell you something and perhaps gives you an idea why Tesla are disrupting the market.
Not sure you can call it 'disrupting' (which is doing the same thing but in a different way) - it's just progress in the same way that roads took over from trains for cargo.
Anyhow, I know three Tesla owners and all of them have gone back to IC cars for a variety of reasons (one is a petrol-head with loads of cars and got the Tesla for fun but lets a colleague use it 95% of the time and another - heavy short journey car user - found she just had to charge it "all the bloody time" so she got rid).
That said, the EV market is only going to go one way, the cars will get better and I'm sure I'll have one one day.
They are not perfect by any means, but they are doing a lot of things that traditional manufacturers had totally missed.
What they've done in such a short space of time is remarkable. Dyson seem to have tried and failed. The rest are playing catchup which they will eventually. As to whether they will be able to offer better value than Tesla at that price point and offer better charging infrastructure is another story.
Not sure you can call it ‘disrupting’ (which is doing the same thing but in a different way)
Not sure I follow you there? Tesla are making cars (same thing) but with long range EV powertrains and a more modern UI (in a different way). Even their ICE competitors consider them to be "disruptive" and they have more or less kickstarted the mainstream EV market in a way that cars like the Leaf, i3, eGolf didn't. I think it's a good thing for the industry and customers alike. Now we will likely see a wave of other desirable EVs that people will choose on their own merits compared to ICE cars, rather than putting up with serious compromises just to look a bit "greener".
Tesla are making cars (same thing) but with long range EV powertrains and a more modern UI (in a different way).
I was going to respond but don't have the time. Read this... it will explain.
I guess it depends how you define what a market disruptor is but if you accept one definition is to enter a mature market with either a new product type or a significant technological advantage such that you quickly gain market presence and force the pre-existing market leaders to adapt and bring competing products into the market then personally I think Tesla have achieved that.
Tesla don't dominate the car market by any means but they are a major player in the EV car market and absolutely are the technical leader that others are playing catch-up to in that segment. Not only that but they're also now looking to change other aspects of traditional car manufacturing (look at their wiring loom ideas as an example).
I understand some people have a natural aversion to anything positive being said about Tesla, Tesla's fanboi's are their biggest enemy - some of the shite they spout in YouTube videos is a joke. But I'd certainly agree with the many people that think the EV market would be a lot less advanced than it is now without Tesla. We'd all still be hoping for something with a bit more usable range than a Leaf whilst the big manufacturers were focusing more on clean diesel tech or something...
Tesla don’t dominate the car market by any means but they are a major player in the EV car market and absolutely are the technical leader
Hmmm... From SHarkbaits link thats not quite true.
They may have put all their eggs int he EV basket, and rightly too if you want to compete or take sales away form other majority market players, and it's taken some true deep development... Just what the other manufacturers wanted, why R&D in the EV space when someone else is developing the technology.
1% of market share in US is commendable, but they're going to have to up the design of their cars because they ain't distinguishable from an A5 or bloated jelly mould kia.
Once the VW ID is out, and proven, that'll be it pretty much for them.. when the likes of VW have the design button pressed and the technology to support the product it will take a had hand in the cash pocket not to buy one.
Once the VW ID is out, and proven, that’ll be it pretty much for them..
Actually the ID.3 seems to be driving Tesla 3 sales right now.
https://www.speakev.com/threads/canceling-id-3-reservation.142141/
Reservation holders are losing faith in both the pricing and specs causing them to switch to a Tesla 3 (a car they may not have previously considered as VW fans). Fact is Tesla have made the Model 3 very competitive with UK pricing well below what was expected a year ago. The ID.3 now looks pretty expensive for what it offers and I wouldn't be tempted by it ahead of a Model 3. I think Tesla made it to market in time with the Model 3 to sell a shit load of them. Already starting to see them driving around on a regular basis. Central London is flooded with them!
Once the VW ID is out, and proven, that’ll be it pretty much for them..
Actually the ID.3 seems to be driving Tesla 3 sales right now.
https://www.speakev.com/threads/canceling-id-3-reservation.142141/
/blockquote>I think people underestimate the Tesla - this is from the cancelling id3 thread.
After much deliberation and sitting with my ID 3 deposit sat with VW and lack of updates, especially about price - I broke ranks and took a test drive in a model 3 on Friday.
A friend has had his model S for 3 years and it is an epic drive. I thought the model 3 would not be any where near as nice to drive. Well I walked into the Tesla showroom, no hard pressure sales. I just asked if I could see inside a standard range +, the guy opened one up in the car park from his mobile and said fill your boots. When I went back in he asked me what I thought. Surprisingly the quality and finish of the car both inside and outside is very good; not far away from my recent S5. 5 minutes later after handing my license over he handed me the cars card (owners just need a paired mobile phone in their pocket) and said off you go take as long as you want. The autonomy and the acceleration of the standard car is fantastic.
Needless to say I have now cancelled my ID 3 order and ordered a M3. Ok, the M3 is potentially going to be slightly more expensive, but it is still sub 40k. However the tech on the simple 15" screen and the panoramic roof sold it for me, which the ID 3 1st will not have.
It was a tough decision as I have been in VW and Audis for years, but Tesla really have made a great car.
Central London is flooded with them!
Is this mostly because of the tax/charges advantages available right now (that may not exist in a few years time) and that there isn't a viable alternative available?
Once the VW ID is out, and proven, that’ll be it pretty much for them
I wouldn't be too sure about that... they've come too far to just disappear but it will certainly get harder for them - especially in Europe. I don't think they can rely upon the sports car sector as they just don't have the [perceived] quality.
Look at the £150k Porsche Taycan, you can guarantee that it's going to be beautifully manufactured and will have performance to match, at least, plus they've pre-sold a massive 30,000 of them before anyone's taken a test drive!
(and it's not people looking to make money because the production volume is going to knock that on the head)
Interesting times over the next couple of years.
I was going to respond but don’t have the time. Read this… it will explain.
That's a pretty odd way of looking at it, but it's in writing so it must be true. Their argument seems to be that Tesla has not taken a significant share of the overall global car market and therefore it is not a disruptor. Yet every EV that mainstream manufacturers release is instantly compared to a Tesla, even if not a direct competitor. They have become the defacto benchmark for future cars. It's almost embarrassing for the likes of VAG to be in a position of playing catch-up and almost monthly announcing a revised accelerated plan for EV development. Not disruptive at all I would imagine. Without Tesla there would be little incentive for them to make the effort, which is why they fell so far behind in the first place.
Look at the £150k Porsche Taycan, you can guarantee that it’s going to be beautifully manufactured and will have performance to match, at least, plus they’ve pre-sold a massive 30,000 of them
I've been following the Taycan a bit too (being a long time Porsche fan). I think you will find that a lot of those 30,000 reservations are nothing more than letters of intent and people were expecting it to be in the £70-80k price range. It's hard to spec the 4S version below £100k. I'm sure it will be a great car, but it's not going to sell in vast numbers at that price level. They might tempt a few Model S owners away, but once you get used to using the Supercharger network it's a hard decision to make.
I think people underestimate the Tesla – this is from the cancelling id3 thread.
That’s for the First Edition though not the standard ones so not sure that’s a true reflection.
Once the VW ID is out, and proven, that’ll be it pretty much for them
I wouldn’t be too sure about that… they’ve come too far to just disappear but it will certainly get harder for them – especially in Europe. I don’t think they can rely upon the sports car sector as they just don’t have the [perceived] quality.
I don't think they'll disappear, I think they'll be in a very crowded market when the big manufacturers nail the EV build and productions lines.. then I think it'll be a bit niche' like riding SS fully rigid MTBs was back in 2011.
It's hard to see their design developing forward, even the Alfa SUV has Tesla like headlights.. and that's pretty much blatant copy... the soft round A5 look is dated already... and not because it's just a fat A5 it's because it looks ghah and bloated... I see EV's becoming more sleek and refined and edgy...
The X to my eyes looks like yer-moms jelly mould and like the Merc R series and that was butt ugly..
Tesla X
Merc R Series
I'd agree the Model 3 styling could be better (although it looks better in person IMO, the paint looks much better to).
I think the main thing for Tesla is whether Elon wants to continue to drive it or if he's more interested in Mars now. Whilst he didn't found the company or invent the tech it's his vision and ability to attract investor funding that's got them where they are but it still takes a hell of a lot of his time up. I can see him either selling it on or at least scaling back complete car production and instead offering battery, drive train or chassis packages to other manufacturers.
In the meantime though they've still got the Model Y, pick-up and Roadster to come (the Model Y looks pretty decent to me and the Roadster I think is stunning), the truck could be a game changer to (although I think the cost might be a problem...). I think the Model 3 is as mass-market as they want to get, making and shipping cars in the volume the Model 3 is being ordered at is just too much of a headache for a company that's more a tech company than a car company.
The other thing Tesla is doing is their neural net and the advantage that gives them especially when developing self-driving. You've got the big established car manufacturers still playing catch up on the battery and drive train, they're not even in the same league when it comes to self-driving development - they're pretty much relying on other tech companies to sort that and to licence it. Yes Elon's vision of a robo-taxi Tesla fleet within the next year or two is fantasy but it's definitely the future.
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Fact is Tesla have made the Model 3 very competitive with UK pricing well below what was expected a year ago.
Might be what you thought, but not what most others expected. Musk hinted on Twitter 9 months ago that the price was going to start around £33k (SR+ £34K?), some predicting sub £30K, turns out to be over £38K for the base model.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/elon-musk-predicts-base-tesla-model-3-uk-price/
Without Tesla there would be little incentive for them to make the effort, which is why they fell so far behind in the first place.
As I understand it, more likely Global / EU / Gov legislation that's driving decision making in VW and others. Big fines coming in EU next year for car makers not making the effort
Might be what you thought, but not what most others expected. Musk hinted on Twitter 9 months ago that the price was going to start around £33k (SR+ £34K?), some predicting sub £30K, turns out to be over £38K for the base model.
There are 2 sides to this. Those who had been following it pretty closely (like me) and those just flicking through the news and mags. The base model is not even on sale in the UK yet. The SR+ is actually pretty well specced compared to a BMW at the same price point. At the other end of the scale, the Performance plus model ended up a full £10k less than initially predicted before UK launch. I know this because we had one on order.
As I understand it, more likely Global / EU / Gov legislation that’s driving decision making in VW and others. Big fines coming in EU next year for car makers not making the effort
BT (before Tesla) the automotive giants were telling their governments that long range EVs were not viable and nobody would even buy them. That argument doesn't really hold after what Tesla achieved in their market sector. Tesla set an example for others to follow - which was always their intended mission as explicitly stated.
I don’t think they’ll disappear, I think they’ll be in a very crowded market when the big manufacturers nail the EV build and productions lines.. then I think it’ll be a bit niche’ like riding SS fully rigid MTBs was back in 2011.
The EV market is anything but crowded. The appetite is there for massive growth with room for everyone to get involved. For all the PR talk, nobody is flooding any market with EVs anytime soon. Hybrids are what the mainstream manufacturers are really trying to sell over the next 10-15 years, because they fit much better into their current business model.
It’s hard to see their design developing forward, even the Alfa SUV has Tesla like headlights.. and that’s pretty much blatant copy… the soft round A5 look is dated already… and not because it’s just a fat A5 it’s because it looks ghah and bloated… I see EV’s becoming more sleek and refined and edgy…
That's just fickle styling trend. Tesla focus on aerodynamics (look at the Cd figures for all their cars), drivetrain efficiency, practicality and the whole UI. I've never had anyone comment on our Model X looking dated either, but that's pretty subjective. In reality it is quite dated in its design cycle - based on the 2012 Model S platform. In some photos (especially with a wide angle lens close up) it can look bloated, but in the flesh it's a well proportioned car. People just don't realise how big they actually are.
Here’s a vid, a vid of a car that all manufacturers should be making...
Had a look at one at the weekend - surprised how narrow & letter-box like the boot opening is.
Unfortunately the boot is too small for our needs.
Thats some read right there..
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