[Closed] Tesla model 3 - anyone got one?

Someone around here has one but he doesn’t like to mention it much.

There’s two down the road, both black and both parked up when I came around the corner.

I don't have one, a near neighbour picked theirs up a month ago. It's the lower range 2wd model. It has a quoted 250 miles, when I asked soon after he got it he suggested roughly 190-200 on a full charge before he starts looking urgently for a fast charger. I think when you get more used to driving it you can improve on this if the local guy who has had a P85d for awhile is anything to go by.
The model 3 owner has a 7kw home charger so can get from 20-80% over night I think.

I looked at swapping my i3 for a TM3 recently. And whilst it's a great car, when you look at it, i simply couldn't find the will to spend that sort of money on a car so "low rent" in appearance and detail. The design of my i3 is streets ahead where it matters, and particularly in ways that make it feel 'special' whereas the Tesla feels like a dishwasher. Yes, a really efficient, superfast, and bang-up-to-date dishwasher, but a dishwasher none the less!

So instead, i'm currently waiting for BMW's M3 CS's to just drop a little more and buying one of those.....

(and keeping the i3 for pootling around because it's basically free motoring)

The model 3 owner has a 7kw home charger so can get from 20-80% over night I think.

I'd be interested to know if that's what he chooses to do or that's what it's capable of. My calculation suggest it's a 50-55kwh battery so with a 7kw charger he should be able to charge 0 - 100% overnight with a bit of time to spare.

The design of my i3 is streets ahead

I went in a friend's i3 and it was amazing, like being in a spaceship!

https://ev-database.uk

Is good at giving charge times of various models.

Colleague has one. He gets to charge it for free at work. About a 30 mile each way commute. Seems happy with it. This after some bmw 3 series. He doesn’t have kids, so no comment on family carability.

I sat in one in the US store. Felt like a mondeo with a big iPad in the middle of the dash and poorer build quality. I don’t really do cars though.

A customer came in with one this week. Looks very nice, inside was very nice. Went like a rocket. Loved the screen showing the scan of the road ahead. He is bring it in so we can fit some graphics on the side, classy!

i3s do not look good, but at least they're not as pedestrian as a Model 3. I couldn't spend sizeable money on something that has no emotion in it whatsoever.

Also wouldn't have an EV anyway as I'm not bought in to the hype, but that's for another thread.

Model 3 pedestrian? Not the one I was sat in on Wednesday. (Private road, before the hand wringers get started)

Drove a mates one the other day. Obvs fantastic to drive etc etc but hmmm not really a looker!

Having said that I have a leaf so....

Got picked up by another mate today in his MX5 . I reckon if Mazda did an EV version with say a 60kwh battery and 2wd rear motor they would clean up.

I have the performance version - bought through limited company.

Its a very good car, great fun to drive. The reviews generally echo what the car is like.

I'd agree that it's not the best looking car out there but it is fairly inconspicuous. Build quality seems good enough on mine.

Main downside is that the auto wipers are pretty cack.

I'd recommend a test drive - all the people who have been in mine have been pretty impressed with it.

Oh and the stereo is great as well.

Main downside is that the auto wipers are pretty cack.

I'm pretty sure I've seen someone directly complain on Twitter about this and Elon Musk said he would sort it, so watch this space. This is the sort of thing that now is sorted with a software update. This is what I like, traditionally A new car was handed over and the manufacturer washed their hands, but Tesla continuously update your old car beyond purchase, like your smartphone on android one or iOS. So, enough people say "fix the wiper action cos it's a bit rubbish" and it's fixed with a software update for everyone, not just the next new model 3, years down the line. Other big car companies will have to follow suit which is good for the consumer (having your car kept up to date beyond purchase). I'm not a Tesla fanboy, but I can see them positively disrupting and changing for the better an old engrained traditional market that needed a shake up.

Got one on 1 October, drove to France, drove back. It’s amazing.

I’ve wanted an electric car since riding up a long drag and having my lungs filled with all the shite from the engines passing me - happens loads but that time was once too much and I started to lay plans.

Had to be able to do distances as we do 10,000 miles a year but very little local driving (cycle/train to office).  Also must be able to take bikes. The only one option was a Model 3 (240 mile range) with towbar for bike rack.

I have never bought a new car before so cost was an issue.  New full EVs are 100% offset against tax in 1st year for business and I am self-employed. So that helps. I scraped the barrel and sold the diesel for the deposit to bring monthly payments down to a level I could sustain for business.

So to drive. Fast. Even with bikes on the back. Acceleration is basically, ‘you think you want to be there?’ Oh look you are already.

It’s  comfortable, great for a long drive (we did France to Yorkshire in a day). Sits happily at 70mph / 130km /hr - will definitely go faster if it weren’t for pesky speed limits.

Charging is easy - the car calculates where it’s going to need to charge on a long trip and sends you there. The Tesla network is well set up and the cars know what they’re doing so you just plug in, go for a coffee and it’s all pretty slick. Obviously you’ll probably mainly charge at home if you’re not on a long one. Bikes on back cut your range - still experimenting but more if you go fast - it’s the drag

I like that it’s a steering wheel and an iPad  to drive - not sure everyone will but it makes complete sense to me.

Will find pics next.

Tesla's aren't slow. The entry level sub 40k 2wd base model does 0-60 in 5 seconds, so well into fast hot hatch territory. The performance model that is £10k more 3.5 seconds, so you're well into >£100k super car territory, so more than enough performance for anyone who wants to make progress and risk their licence. And I think their real strength is their charging network and Google maps based nav system and integration into how it plans your journey the most efficient way via all the fast chargers, so your door to door time is similar to what it would be with a conventional car...well not that much slower. If I was visiting my brother in Aberdeen which is an 8hr door to door journey, in a model 3 it would be 2 maybe 3 'splash and dash' fast charges, which by the time you nett off the time I'd spend on a couple of stops for fuel and coffee anyway would only be maybe an hour more on the journey time. The current lack of availability of fast charging infrastructure with other EV's would make such a journey impractical - not than an EV would be for longer family journey's, we'd use my wife's car for that, but handy to have the capability on hand just in case and the Tesla charging network is really showing the way for the others. It'll get there, a case of when not if. Oh and they have the Whoopi cushion mode which would keep my kids entertained for hours.

Tesla have stolen a march on everyone so have the best EV's out there right now. It won't last as the other manufacturers are hot on their heels and will catch up, but for now and the next few years if you can afford a Tesla it has to be up there for consideration. I've been looking at EVs' recently. I fancied the iPace initially (look great, very fast, good range), but too large for my needs and beyond my budget - though some half decent lease deals around, but still too pricy, looked at i3 which was the favourite at one point - I like its funky looks, but it's Model 3 price, so why would you when you could get a Model 3? they're faster, larger and more practical and you can open the rear doors without having to open the fronts. But BMW are ditching the i3 soon and replacing it with new models so might be some deals coming.

Once you take all those runners out of the equation everything else is nowhere near as good and just bland and boring. Taking a look at an eGolf today which looks like it could fit the bill from the practicality side, but just looks like a bog std dull Golf (they could have styled it a bit more GTi ish instead of TDi ish) and think its a bit slow. I don't mind boring looks (Teslas look dull and boring too), but has to make up for it elsewhere, which Tesla's do.

BIK is zero on EVs from April too Clover which is an added bonus. I even bet some discount on my hybrid from then.

Wobbliscot there’s a whole new range of EVs coming out next year which will hurt Tesla as they’re far cheaper but yes still worth considering.

Waiting for a Rivian.

This is the sort of thing that now is sorted with a software update. This is what I like,

Absolutely, this has to be the way forward.

I'm looking at the future and thinking, v.3.5.1 is ready for update and you either plug it in or it wifi/blutooths itself and does it for you.

Brilliant.

Watching the trip that Clover has just done to France and back, gives me much more confidence about one as my next car, hopefully change of jobs mean I won't be driving nearly as much as previous role, so fingers crossed, should be able to cut my emissions pretty considerably in the future!

My mate has had two P100d's, he uses them to got to Garda with his Moth dinghy on the roof... says it takes ages but he's a convert. Does about 220 to a full charge, so it can take ages to get anywhere.

For instance, he and his mate (in an A4 diesel estate) drove back form Les Arcs and the A4 was 5 hours quicker and they both stuck to 70mph on the m'ways.

If you can stomach the current mileage and charging time, then why not get one..

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Finally found out how to post Clover's pic on here... (You'd think I'd be good at it...)
Here's the Model 3, with optional towball mounted bike rack. Without the towball, it wouldn't fit more than a road bike in it, I reckon, as it's not a true hatchback, but with a Thule three-bike rack, it'll fit three people./three bikes no problem.

How much time charging adds to a trip depends. We started from Valenciennes on full, had lunch in Reims and a coffee later on so arrived in Alsace in the same time as we would have done if driving diesel.

Setting off back we set off on 30% so charged for longer on the way back between Colmar and Calais (2 x 30-40 mins). Then Maidstone and Grantham on the way North on the UK side. One of those stops we wouldn’t have done in the Doblo. So probably an extra 40 minutes between Calais and Yorkshire.

My impression is that the Model 3 charges faster than the older Teslas. I can’t see trips within the UK taking significantly longer.

The other thing to think about charging vs buying diesel is - yes, on a long journey it might take you an hour longer to get there. But you'll have saved £50 or so in fuel. So what price do you put on your time? If you're worth more than £50 an hour, then you'll find it annoying to stop to charge (though you can work/pee/eat/drink coffee while doing it, none of which you can do on a petrol forecourt... 🙂

If you're happy to set off an hour earlier/get there an hour later and save the money, then you'll find that this slightly more relaxed travel approach is more than worth it.

One thing, we ended up getting the longer range model (340 miles) due to Tesla double matching our car. The longer range one was the only towbar ready available in the country. It was crazy busy collecting the car - people and new deliveries arriving in waves - so if you do go for one there can be flakiness but also they are very keen to help and there’s no pressurised upselling or ‘you really need this extra doodad’.

We reckon that putting bikes on the back of it pulls the range down about 20% if you’re going 50 and 30-40% if you’re tanking down the Autoroute so the extra range has been handy. That said, there’s a website called abetterrouteplanner.com which you can use to calculate journey times with charges for your model of car and it wasn’t adding too much time when I tried it for the 240 mile range model.

Can you not put roof bars on these model 3's?

As for the dodgy wipers being fixed with a firmware update, surely most 'more mature' car manufacturers wouldn't have let it out of the factory without decent wiper functionality in the first place? It's all well and good being able to get new functionality via software updates, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to push crap out too soon just because you can fix it later (see garmin smart watches as a case in point).

As it happens my bmw gets software/firmware updates over the air too, but i haven't felt the need for it because it all works well out of the box.

though you can work/pee/eat/drink coffee while doing it, none of which you can do on a petrol forecourt…

Is that the sound of a gauntlet being thrown down?

Thanks all.
Sounds pretty positive.
A couple of lads at work are getting theirs in a few weeks so will have a good poke around when they turn up.

If you do go for it hit me up for a referral code - we both get 1,000 free miles on the supercharger network.

Can you not put roof bars on these model 3’s?

You can (apparently) but I'd have thought that would decrease the aero even more than a towbar mount. And while you're not worrying about the extra money it'll cost you in drag, you are aware that it'll reduce range.

How much more range would you get doing 60mph?

surely most ‘more mature’ car manufacturers wouldn’t have let it out of the factory without decent wiper functionality in the first place?

My citroen auto wipers respectfully disagree.

Ha! Aye the auto wipers on both BMWs I've owned also disagree, absolute shite. Either too fast or too slow.. even with fine tuning the little dial thing. I really do pine for an old school intermittent wipers setting.

echo the above the BMW intermittent wipers are terrible, and there won't ever be a software update!!

We have a Model X. It's brilliant overall, but yes the auto wipers are flaky - although slightly better in the last software update. But then they are no better or worse than auto wipers I've had in several other cars. Pretty much everything else on the Tesla is better/faster.

My wife has a Model 3 on order, but putting it off until April for the zero BIK to kick in.

Future software update will include low speed pedestrian warning sound options including jungle rain forest, goats and Monty Python Holy Grail coconuts.

I came close but decided I just couldn't justify the lease cost, on a 9 + 35 & 8k miles it was just over £500 a month for the performance model (the LR not a whole lot cheaper). Given my commute is about 5 miles and I don't drive much on weekends I decided it would be a bit silly spending that much (which wouldn't have been spare change, would have meant cutting back on pretty much any frivolous spending) on something that's sat on my drive most of the time. I sort of regret that decision every time I read threads like this or watch a YouTube vid with one 🙁

Wobbliscot there’s a whole new range of EVs coming out next year which will hurt Tesla as they’re far cheaper but yes still worth considering

Not sure which ones you're talking about but the base Model 3 isn't a whole lot more expensive than some of the pretty basic EVs coming onto the market. You have to remember the Model 3 is a mid-market car with a pretty high spec interior (and thankfully not lots of stupid optional extras you get stung for with other manufacturers).

VW ID 3, MG ZS, Zoe, Peugeot 208, Leaf and Hyundai Ionqui for starters.

VW ID 3, MG ZS, Zoe, Peugeot 208, Leaf and Hyundai Ionqui for starters

They're either not competing with the Model 3 (range/performance/interior quality) or are similar pricing/more expensive. You didn't fall for the sub £30k ID 3 pricing did you? That's for the crippled version, the usable version (close to the standard Model 3 range/performance) will more likely be £40k

Not saying the Model 3 won't have competition, it will, but not from anything in the same league that's "far cheaper" any time soon.

I never mentioned range no I mentioned pricing which as you can see they fall under. If you go for a similar price there’s a few there too with a similar range or even better, Tesla are losing their grip.

OK so you're comparing apples with oranges, seems entirely pointless. Tesla are not trying to make the cheapest EV on the market, far from it.

No, you just ignored my point there are some cheaper more affordable EVs on their way.

squirrelking

My citroen auto wipers respectfully disagree.

Have you tried new wiper blades? Our Citroen auto wipers were truly horrendous - lurching across the screen either too fast or too slow, going at max speed in light drizzle etc.

We had some new Bosch blades put on a few months back & it absolutely transferred the operation of the intermittent wipe. I can only think that the new wipers are clearing the sensor area more effectively, so making the system better able to detect the level of water falling on the screen.

Might be worth a try.

No, you just ignored my point there are some cheaper more affordable EVs on their way

There are already cheaper EVs available. They aren't competing against Tesla - so what about the new ones coming are going to hurt Tesla as you stated? You think someone who is about to spend £36k+ on a Model 3 now will suddenly switch to a £25k EV with half the range & performance just because there's a few more of them to choose from next year? It's about as nonsensical as telling someone not to get a Audi A4 now as a there will be cheaper cars available next year and you're actually talking about a Ford Fiesta

Ah! Forget it.

They’re either not competing with the Model 3 (range/performance/interior quality) or are similar pricing/more expensive. You didn’t fall for the sub £30k ID 3 pricing did you? That’s for the crippled version, the usable version (close to the standard Model 3 range/performance) will more likely be £40k

What you did there was an actual realistic comparison rather than just spout some general rubbish about cheaper EVs taking Tesla's market away. I've been following the ID 3 forums a little and loads of people with reservations are now jumping ship to the base Model 3 because a) it's available right now b) it doesn't look any more expensive and c) it has more performance, range and interior space. Not to mention the all-important Supercharger network. So unless you really want a VW, there isn't a lot of incentive to buy an ID 3 over a Tesla 3. Being a hatchback is about the only thing going for it besides the badge (and a VW badge does nothing for me these days).

https://www.speakev.com/threads/canceling-id-3-reservation.142141/page-7

Not a model 3 but my neighbour has a Tesla Model X. He's happy enough with it and the children love the folding gull wing doors but...... the heater broke and it took about 6 weeks to fix during which the dealer supplied a non-electric vehicle, which put me right off them. Judging by the amount of time that he has one of the dealers cars on his drive rather than the Tesla, it also spends alot of time back at the dealers. Now maybe he has a 'Friday' car, but it does not seem to be very reliable............

Has anyone tried to get 2 med mountain bikes in the M3 boot? (Back seat down obvsly.) Wheels off is fine but preferably just front wheels off.

Not a model 3 but my neighbour has a Tesla Model X. He’s happy enough with it and the children love the folding gull wing doors but…… the heater broke and it took about 6 weeks to fix during which the dealer supplied a non-electric vehicle, which put me right off them. Judging by the amount of time that he has one of the dealers cars on his drive rather than the Tesla, it also spends alot of time back at the dealers. Now maybe he has a ‘Friday’ car, but it does not seem to be very reliable…………

Model X reliability is a bit hit or miss. Early examples in particular (up to around mid 2017) had all sorts of issues, including heater failures. But then they sorted pretty much everything out and it is now a great car. We've got 30k miles on our early 2018 Model X with zero faults. I wouldn't worry about Model 3 reliability as they have been pretty well sorted by now too.

Having driven a Tesla 3 Long Range AWD, I can't see why anyone would actually need to spend the extra on the Performance model - the LR does 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, which is 996 911 quick... The Performance comes with bigger brakes (not that you use brakes that much on the Tesla) and 20in wheels, which might look cool, but it's going to be £300 a corner for tyres and forget getting winter ones in that size. Unless you're going to track day it, then the 'normal' LR is fast enough for anyone.

What’s everyone’s view on residual values in say 3 years. It’s probable that battery technology moves on and your old Tesla will be potentially like an old laptop?

bikebouy

This is the sort of thing that now is sorted with a software update. This is what I like,

I actually find that pretty off-putting to be honest.
It's all well and good when they add a feature you like, and it works; but software updates can and do break or remove features you already had. Entire cars have been soft-bricked from failed OTA updates.

I'm on the Tesla subreddit and other examples I've seen are one update that caused somebody to nearly crash as their autopilot suddenly didn't behave the same after a major version change (think it tried to change lanes into someone having never done so on the previous version), and another update had slowed some people's cars down too.

It's a tricky one and one of the reasons why I was looking at leasing as part of me was concerned about residuals. But the Model 3 has been out a couple of years in the US and there's been no massive shift in technology since then and whilst there is some interesting new battery tech in development (using graphene etc.) the chances of it being commercially ready (at the scale EV cars need anyway) in the next few years is pretty slim.

As for other manufacturers catching up to Tesla (in terms of range/performance/cost) that's probably more likely but then, AFAIK, traditional car manufacturers are just buying in batteries (OK with a fair bit of investment in some cases) rather than putting the huge effort into it that Tesla has done/is still doing. So if anyone is going to make a big battery break-through it's likely to be Tesla anyway and maybe they'd then offer some sort of battery exchange option.

I think the biggest problem affecting residuals is EVs are still a relatively small market segment and if that doesn't change within the next 2 or 3 years it's going hurt premium EV residuals.

Nah, i think tesla are here to stay.
For example, I investigated getting an electric conversion done on my subaru forester, it would cost 10k, more than the car is worth, but that cost will surely come down in time.
Most of the companies i looked at were using tesla battery packs.
I can’t be the only person who would prefer to reuse an existing car, surely?

Two 27.5 Lapierre Zesties go in a Zoé with both wheels out and pedals off, so I'd be surprised if they don't fit in just about any EV.

How big is the boot space on the Model 3?
I know what it quotes in Ltr but some real world dimensions would be nice.

I actually find that pretty off-putting to be honest.
It’s all well and good when they add a feature you like, and it works; but software updates can and do break or remove features you already had. Entire cars have been soft-bricked from failed OTA updates.

I’m on the Tesla subreddit and other examples I’ve seen are one update that caused somebody to nearly crash as their autopilot suddenly didn’t behave the same after a major version change (think it tried to change lanes into someone having never done so on the previous version), and another update had slowed some people’s cars down too.

Having experienced first hand every single Tesla software update over the last 2 years, I can say that it's got a LOT better overall over that timescale. But it is true what you say about updates potentially causing new bugs and features changing. When they first went to V9 for example, Spotify was a nightmare (kept freezing or dropping signal for no reason) for a good few months until they eventually got around to fixing it. Autopilot has also had a few serious bugs come and go, but it's now pretty solid and night and day better than it was in early 2018.

The upside to all these software updates is a very slick and refined modern UI. The satnav for example is now super slick with Google sat maps and Autopilot integration (it can automatically exit motorways) and makes any other OEM satnav look like a complete joke.

Having driven a Tesla 3 Long Range AWD, I can’t see why anyone would actually need to spend the extra on the Performance model – the LR does 0-60 in 4.4 seconds, which is 996 911 quick…

Same reason you might buy a 996 Turbo over a 996 Carrera. Because you can! It's more about "want" than "need". But yeah, the AWD LR is a quick car in its own right, while the P model is full-on supercar quick up to 70 mph and then merely very quick after that. There is a video of Nico Rosberg racing his mate in a Model 3P in a 911 GT2 RS in Monaco and he lost! It was only a quick drag race, but shows how quick this thing actually is off the line i.e. f****** quick!

Has anyone tried to get 2 med mountain bikes in the M3 boot? (Back seat down obvsly.) Wheels off is fine but preferably just front wheels off.

Its a saloon with a relatively narrow opening. You might just be able to squeeze one in there (I've had to squeeze bikes through saloon openings in US hire cars on multiple occasions) but I'd be surprised if 2 fit. I've no idea if the seat even folds. Maybe 1 on the back seat?

What’s everyone’s view on residual values in say 3 years. It’s probable that battery technology moves on and your old Tesla will be potentially like an old laptop?

I would be more worried about 3 year residuals on a new diesel today. Battery tech is not moving on so quickly either. Supply is the biggest challenge they will face over the coming years.

I’ve no idea if the seat even folds.

Yes the rear bench does fold flat and is split.

Its a saloon with a relatively narrow opening. You might just be able to squeeze one in

I know, but Just wondering if anyone has tried (or willing to try) without having to take the pedals off. A number of you tube vids have described the boot opening as cavernous but relative to what?

If you just google "Model 3 with mountain bikes in the back" or similar you'll see some youtube clips/images of what fits

As Moshi says, the rear seats both fold flat, but annoyingly the Model 3 is a saloon rather than the hatchback it resembles. So although the boot is deep, plus the added rear seat space, you still have a letterbox shape to fit everything into. Most annoying part of the car really... Hence the need for a tow ball rack - which, incidentally, needs to be factory fitted (the towball gubbins, that is, for a princely £970 extra(!)), so check this if it's important to you. It can't be retrofitted, presumably for wiring and towball socket reasons. The towball is removable for neatness/aero.

I'd be more worried about the depreciation of buying a new diesel now than an electric. Car battery life doesn't seem to be ageing as badly as people (even the OEMs) predicted, so hopefully prices will stay reasonably cheerful.

without having to take the pedals off

Why? It's eaier than taking the wheels out and means you're less likely to damage either the other bike or car.

If you don't like a car don't buy it, but don't find silly excuses for yourself then use them as anti-EV propaganda.

It doesn't really matter what battery tech does over the next few years, the residuals will be based upon the performance and availability of the vehicle. no matter what comes along, you'll still have a car capable of 300 miles on a charge, o-60 in less than 5 seconds and reasonable comfort. There won't be that much on the second hand market to compete with it. The danger will be that Tesla manage to cut production costs and thus a new one is cheaper, thus reducing your second hand one. they did this recently with the Model S and Model X. Some owners lost £30000 overnight.

car so “low rent” in appearance and detail. The design of my i3 is streets ahead where it matters, and particularly in ways that make it feel ‘special’ whereas the Tesla feels like a dishwasher.

This. And it's not just the model 3 or just Tesla. It's an American thing.

They seem to do great drivetrains, great exterior looks (from a distance) and for Tesla, great suspension and handling, but the interior, paint and fit and finish is just awful. The two model 3 I've been in have had substantially different panels gaps on both side of the car, the paint was whisp thin on the panel edges and the interior was all over the place.

US Cars are often cheap for a reason.

Admittedly the Jag iPace is the complete opposite, the exterior and performance isn't that great, but the quality and interior is lovely.

You think someone who is about to spend £36k+ on a Model 3 now will suddenly switch to a £25k EV

The EV Corsa is £36k.

Yep, £36k for a Corsa. SO the market for Corsa's generally takes the path of least resistance in a Vauxhall Dealership... Customer: I want a car, Dealer: What car would you like?, Customer; One that goes forwards and backwards and I can get my 4yr old in the back, Dealer; Do you need any more space than that? Customer: No, I got to Tescos in it as well... Dealer: Here is a Black Corsa 1ltr and its cheap to run and Insure, Customer: Has it got a radio? Dealer; Yes, I'll set up the paperwork shall I.. Is there a part exchange? Customer: Yes, that Red Corsa outside...

And thats pretty much it, hardly any price differences in the grand scheme of things.. Px £2.5k for a 3yr old one and £17k for a new one and thats it..

Getting the Customer to delve into £36k for an EV that they don't understand or need is going to be challenging to say the least. I honestly don't think Vauxhalls focus groups have nailed their primary retail market at all..

Regarding the VW ID, well their claiming all sorts of mileages but at least the Golf ID is going to be Golf sized and cost a similar amount to a normal Golf (their words, not mine) which means the Customer walks in and says... Customer; I'd like a new Golf please, Dealer: we have an EV that'll do 300miles to a charge, can I ask what mileage you do in a week? Customer; About 150-200, Dealer: What colour would you like? Customer; Blue or Grey, Dealer; Px? Customer; Yes the white one outside, Dealer; I'll set the paperwork up shall I? Customer; Yes, can you tell me how I charge it? Dealer; Yes, certainly follow me....

The VW ID has it nailed IMO. Perfectly matched to customers expectations and priced accordingly.

It'll be a runaway success and build on the already perceived good name VW have built after the Diesel-Gate affair.

They won't be able to make them quick enough IMO.

Tesla will still be niche to a lot of people, and that "0-60" ludicrous mode will be pointless laughable gimmick as it is now.

My mate with the P100d used it twice then realised it's pointless since the grunt it has is more than enough to scare the shit out of any normal driver.

Admittedly the Jag iPace is the complete opposite, the exterior and performance isn’t that great, but the quality and interior is lovely.

Yeah, because it's not a JLR built product. It was designed and is built in Austria by a company that actually know what they are doing. The design came from them as part of a design mule for another EV car and JLR put their nose and tail on it and badged it with a poncing cat.

The EV Corsa is £36k.

I thought it game in around £30k? Still a lot for Corsa but that’s still £6k less than Tesla.

£36k, it was on FullyCharged show when Jonny was interviewing the EU Sales Director...

They did a direct comparison between a 1ltr and the EV...

Great show FullyCharged.

The VW ID has it nailed IMO. Perfectly matched to customers expectations and priced accordingly.

That's not what reservation holders are saying on the SpeakEV forum. Now it's becoming clear that it will be more like a £40k car than the £30k car they expected, many are having second thoughts. Ironically it's actually boosting Model 3 sales as people jump ship.

What’s everyone’s view on residual values in say 3 years. It’s probable that battery technology moves on and your old Tesla will be potentially like an old laptop?

I wouldn't worry at all. There are loads of stats on Model S battery lives and they seem to age extremely well; better than anyone was expecting. The Li-ion cells are charged and discharged very conservatively, so they last much longer than say Li-ion bike lights...

They seem to do great drivetrains, great exterior looks (from a distance) and for Tesla, great suspension and handling, but the interior, paint and fit and finish is just awful. The two model 3 I’ve been in have had substantially different panels gaps on both side of the car, the paint was whisp thin on the panel edges and the interior was all over the place.

I don't understand the obsession with panel gaps and paint thickness. It's not as if they are perfect on cars with a perceived reputation for "build quality". I had a dubious bonnet fit on a brand new 911 and I've seen some shoddy fit and finish on various Mercs and other "high end" cars. Tesla is merely average these days in that respect (much better than they were even 2 years ago). But they are simply great to drive compared to their ICE equivalents. That's why they outsell many of their direct ICE rivals. But diehards will always fall back on the quality issues and perceptions, which are not even of much concern these days with Tesla. For me it's all about the whole driving/ownership experience rather than walking around the exterior with a micrometer and paint thickness gauge.

£36k, it was on FullyCharged show when Jonny was interviewing the EU Sales Director…

Vauxhall website says £29,990 for the base version.

I don’t understand the obsession with panel gaps and paint thickness.

The former is a good gauge of the quality of the rest of the car. The latter tells you where it'll start to rust. All of my BMWs have been damn near perfect for the former, but Mu mini had a poorly aligned rear door - it leaked as the seal wasn't properly engaged My Z4MC had stupidly thin pain on the inside of the rear hatch...that's where it rusted. A mate's Mazda 3 had paint so thin on the shut lines of the doors that it was rusting noticeably at 3 years old.

Have you tried new wiper blades?

Yeah, last replacement were Bosch Aeros. Thinking about it cleaning the windscreen more often may help but it's always been flakey. Doesn't bother me that much as I just use manual, would be happier with variable speed like the Mondeo though.

Yeah, because it’s not a JLR built product. It was designed and is built in Austria by a company that actually know what they are doing.

You mean Jaguar paid the company to do it designed to the specification Jag provided. Nowt wrong with that, alot of car companies do similar things and share and buy designs. The Porsche 924 was a car that VW commissioned Porsche to design and build for them before they pulled the plug and did the Scirocco themselves as they could make it FWD and share platforms with the Golf and other models in the range, so it's something that has been done by car companies for decades. You say this like it's a bad thing. It's not as if the cars JLR actually make are crap quality. My dad has had two now and my mate has had one and they are every bit as high quality as any German car and the interiors are actually much nicer.

Panel gaps don't necessarily have anything to do with the functionally of the car - if it does then that is a deeper problem with the design and manufacture of the car. It is a measure of repeatability of your manufacturing and assembly processes. The better they are the closer you can design the panel gaps. This is part of the learning Tesla is doing to play catch up with the mainstream manufacturers that have been steadily improving panel gaps for the last 30 or 40 years of car manufacture and production and part of the reason why they're $1bn in the hole - it costs a hell of alot to buy your way into a very established and mature market. Also wide panel gaps make wind noise and worsen the aerodynamics and can make fitting replacement parts harder. But yeah, the rest is just aesthetics and not something you'd expect from a premium product.

But to be fair to Tesla I think the panel gap thing was something that affected early cars and things are alot better now.

We have one, best car I've ever owned, really good.

- range is accurate, can easily surpass the range if you're careful with right foot/reduce AC/make sure tyres are right pressure etc.

- chargers are fast (and getting faster) on supercharger network.

- roof rack is available and has marginal impact on efficiency (think it was tested at about 1% hit or something?).

- new software all the time improving car capabilities and driving experience.

- the boot can _just_ about fit a mountain bike frame in a bike bag, I had to take the stem and rear mech off but it did fit (large Santa Cruz 5010 CC), so not convenient for a day ride but OK for a long drive to holiday.

- long drives are easy; take a break every three or four hours, drink coffee, charge, go the loo.

I had a Model S before, the boot was huge and could easily swallow a bit with wheels off in a bike bag. I did 42,000 miles on that car and just replaced 4 tyres, that was it. Tight.

Disclosure, I live about 20 miles from the Fremont, California factory so I could see owning one in the UK might be a slightly different proposition. That and the price is more £££ I guess.