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Looks like another lone nutter running amok with a knife and wearing a (fake) suicide vest.
Is this "death by cop" or a genuine attack with terrorist intentions?
I feel for the officer that had to shoot the bastard.
I feel for the officer that had to shoot the bastard.
Why ? He’s saved more folk from potential death/ life threatening injury
Streatham: Man shot dead by police after stabbings in London https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51349664
Indeed Derek it must be terrible having to make that call but it can be for the right reason.
Why ? He’s saved more folk from potential death/ life threatening injury
Err perhaps because taking a human life is likely to a significant and life changing event no matter the circumstances.
Obviously there are exceptions, you know psychopaths, sociopaths and stuff...
Err perhaps because taking a human life is likely to a significant and life changing event no matter the circumstances.
He’s a trained officer
He’s a trained officer
They still have feelings..
He’s a trained officer
I’ve trained alongside them. It doesn’t work like Call of Duty.
The blokes with guns are probably employed after some considerable mental testing / evaluating. I wouldn't get all worried about them doing their job properly.
Plus one. Really, why be a total dick?
Yes a trained officer, and yes his training meant when it comes to that moment they are able to act, but that doesn’t stop them from being a feeling human being who has to deal with the repercussions
I don't know from experience, but I'd think killing someone who would have obviously gone on to kill potantialy a lot more people, you can probably take some solace in that.
The blokes with guns are probably employed after some considerable mental testing / evaluating. I wouldn’t get all worried about them doing their job properly.
Indeed they are but they’re human still.
A lot of trained army people can't kill when it comes down to it and they are in a position where they have too. Training does not equal no compassion for others just because they are on a different side...
Indeed they are but they’re human still.
Indeed I’m not saying the police officer won’t have feelings. But being a trained officer knowing you’ve stopped more chaos/death I’d be feeling more upbeat than down about it.
I’d be feeling more upbeat than down about it.
Keep your fantasies to yourself.
But being a trained officer knowing you’ve stopped more chaos/death I’d be feeling more upbeat than down about it.
Yeah you’re pretty clueless how it works. There may be some comfort in knowing it was for a good reason but feeling upbeat is not really how emotions work.
Luckily they’ll go their counselling following this to help them.
Indeed I’m not saying the police officer won’t have feelings. But being a trained officer knowing you’ve stopped more chaos/death I’d be feelings more upbeat than down about it.
They get removed from firearms duty and have to go through a shedload of debriefing, counselling, re-evaluation etc against a background of media scrutiny and the usual bollocks from people who have literally no clue asking "why didn't they just shoot to wound?" or questioning why they weren't on scene earlier or whatever.
Not really anything to be "upbeat" about - and that's before you even consider the fact that they've just taken someone's life.
Yeah you’re pretty clueless how it works. There may be some comfort in knowing it was for a good reason but feeling upbeat is not really how emotions work
He’s a trained police officer(anti terorrist) knowing that maybe someday he’ll have to use lethal force.
Not a snowflake
You’ll find your the clueless one !
I would imagine the police see shooting someone dead as them having failed in some small part somewhere. Got to feel for the guy who had to do it.
Not a snowflake
You’ll find your the clueless one
You sir are an idiot.
He’s a trained police officer(anti terorrist) knowing that maybe someday he’ll have to use lethal force.
Not a snowflake
You’ll find your the clueless one !
I’ll repeat for you. I’ve trained alongside them.
Every one of them I’ve met (have done a fair bit of assisting in training with them as OPFOR amongst other things and have a few long standing friends as a result) has been the polar opposite of the sort of guy you’d think would want to be an armed policeman. There are no trigger happy, Hondo wannabes that I’ve ever met.
They have all been sensible, serious and methodical when working and I know that if any of the guys I know had to pull the trigger on a live target they would see it as a failure of sorts, in that they had ended up at that conclusion, but they would do their job with the professionalism and vigour that they have trained for again and again and again.
I have nothing but respect for anyone who puts themselves in that position, whereby simply doing their job not only puts them directly in harms way in the most serious way but also puts them under so much scrutiny and appraisal both from professional bodies and armchair experts.
But being a trained officer knowing you’ve stopped more chaos/death I’d be feeling more upbeat than down about it.
Just a wild guess.... but I doubt you have even the slightest bit of relevant experience to make that assumption ?
If you do however, and you would genuinely feel upbeat about it, don’t tell anyone in your chain of command otherwise you will probably be out of a job.
Wow, even by our usual standards of ****tery we've found a new low here tonight 🤦
Alarmingly the reports now say the assailant was under police surveillance.
Initially they stated the assailant was chased by plain clothes.
I doubt anyone will be feeling upbeat tonight. 🙁
Yep, I wouldn't normally comment, but that is some prize bell-endery.
Have a sit down and a think plus one.
A 🙁
Being under surveillance won't stop you attacking someone unless the surveillance is REALLY up close and personal.
Though it would explain how quickly the Police stopped him before it became even more serious
Ok I’ll simplify it further
Trained firearms officer had to use lethal force to stop terrorist injuring or killing innocent people.
He feels his actions were a negative or a positive ?
Plus One. Have you ever carried a gun, are you a trained Firearms Officer? Have you ever stood infront of anyone pointing a loaded gun at you? Do you know what it's like.
Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on your own experiences, I'd like to know how they compare with mine.
I've had enough of STW, it's populated by...........
He feels his actions were a negative or a positive ?
Irrespective, he had to kill someone at work. Happy day or sad day?
@ morecash - I don’t doubt it.
I’m glad they had the right person under surveillance.
Alarmingly the reports now say the assailant was under police surveillance.
Don’t know how f it’s true about surveillance but unfortunately surveillance is quite a difficult job, and interdiction is a different step. it’s difficult to know what someone has planned more so in a ct thing like this where there may be no other reporting or intercept in the build up, you just follow someone day in day out and suddenly it kicks off. This attack might not have much build up and it’s very difficult to justify armed ops if you’ve no intelligence Also a lot of surveillance officers may not be armed. It used to be (outside ct) unarmed team, unarmed team with bolt on firearms team and then mobile armed surveillance team, obviously armed assets are at a premium and scarce. No one will be happy tonight.(obviously troll features will be)
He feels his actions were a negative or a positive ?
His actions were necessary. Negative or positive is completely irrelevant.
Just stop it plus one, please.
Q. "what did you do at work today daddy?"
Is your answer
1. I had to kill someone and every time I close my eyes I replay the event and I can't stop wondering if I could have done something different.
Or
2. I blew away some terrorist scum and saved democracy. **** Yeah!
Wow, even by our usual standards of ****tery we’ve found a new low here tonight
This forum in general really has went way downhill. Its always been bad. Seemingly full of armchair experts and folk who just like to sit online arguing with strangers. Dont these folk have bikes to ride instead?
I rarely comment on anything at all in the chat forums. Just like to browse through for half an hour before bed every now and then. But I'm less and less inclined to even bother looking at the forum as theres just so so much pointless tat. Any meaningful threads turn into ramblings like Plus One has ruined this.
I see I'm not the only one who thinks STW is just full of arseholes.
PlusOne isn't worth arguing with. Anyone with that kind of reasoning doesn't have the intelligence to continue the conversation.
What a shitty forum this has turned into.
And yet, if a forum member genuinely needs help, we'll rally round and do amazing things to support them.
And when the idiots get too much for me, I reread "sudocrem cat"
I think it's something we're going to see more and more. When I was growing up, there were still a lot of the ww2 generation around. I grew up with my grandads both of whom saw absolute horrors, and I grew up with something like 10 less great aunts and uncles less than I should have had, these things never happened to me but it was made real for me. It'd be damn hard for me to be hawkish about war, or to say "we survived the blitz, we'll survive brexit" (*), and damn sure I couldn't think something as daft as "killing people who need killed should make you feel good".
(*OK, bad example but pretty much none of the people saying that, actually remember the blitz, it's the same thing just a generation further along)
Sadly it's not like any of that ended with the war generation- I have mates I could have learned the same things from who served in Helmand, albeit in later life- but it's so so different now. Fewer and fewer people will have met with that. And in the UK fewer and fewer people will be telling stories of life before the welfare state and NHS, where the generation before couldn't ever take it for granted.
I mean, maybe I'm giving Plus One too much credit, it's always possible he has had these things around him too and is just oblivious to it. Regardless, I think it's pretty bizarre to think that good sides balance out bad things in your head.
More information coming out on bbc here:
Streatham attacker named as Sudesh Amman https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51351844
It does look like the whole sentencing / parole model has gone to sh** if he’s just been released and (1) was under such close monitoring by the police and (2) he’s injured jo public (3) he’s now dead.
This must justify a major review of the whole reform of terrorists (of whatever persuasion) guidelines.
The whole parole service is ****ed tbf, not just for terrorists. It's not protecting the public and it's not helping parolees.
I mean, it's always a risk, the goal isn't perfection- the only way to be 100% certain of no reoffending is to jail everyone forever. But this isn't isolated.
All happened just down the road from me. Fortunately I left for the shops 5 mins later due to feeling the need for a quick tea. I was heading the the shop next to boots. Cycled up to boots from a head on position, saw it was shut and thought it was odd, got closer to see a car on the wrong side of the road. Thought it was a minor traffic incident, continued on thinking it would be ok to turn left and then I saw the shot guy dead on the footpath and then I thought WTF is going on, seconds after that a cop with a very big gun runs towards me and screams get away now....don't think I have pedaled so fast in a long time! Little to close to home for my comfort. Thank God I was thirsty!
I see I’m not the only one who thinks STW is just full of arseholes.
It's really not. This forum helps much more than it hinders. Genuinely read some of the many other threads for perspective mate. I'm not digging at you, this forum is a bloody oasis most of the time when you look at (anti)social media.in general.
As for this attack. Its impossibly difficult to stop. Even with huge resources.
I am not making this political but after years of cutbacks in the prison service and policing the problem is not with anyone else but government and society.
No-one came out well from this. The officer that took this decision to end a life will live this day forever. Bloody awful for him. He isn't celebrating tonight for Christ's sake.
Of course the whole thing may have been allowed to happen to get public support for tougher laws that the likes of Priti Patel would be trying to ge in or maybe the police were trying to see who he contacted as they were trying to catch a bigger group. Neither of those options would be made public of course.
Not a very glorious martyrdom, was it? Shot on the pavement in a suburb of London a few minutes after managing to injure a couple of people. I wonder how his family must be feeling?
this forum is a bloody oasis most of the time when you look at (anti)social media.in general.
Nothing is perfect, but this, I agree with. Look how quickly gung ho I’ll thought out opinions are intelligently challenged, for instance.
Did anyone see the Home Sec on the news? She doesn’t even seem to know the difference between terrorism and counter terrorism, talking about the counter terrorism offences this man committed and so on. I didn’t think it could get worse than having Theresa May and her vendetta as Home Sec, but this one seems to be thick as mince.
Harrow is indeed a terrible place.
I didn’t think it could get worse than having Theresa May and her vendetta as Home Sec, but this one seems to be thick as mince.
It is not her lack of intelligence that is the problem, it is her sheer hatred.
Yeah maybe, I suppose TM mainly just hated the police, rather than everyone.
Of course the whole thing may have been allowed to happen to get public support for tougher laws that the likes of Priti Patel would be trying to ge in or maybe the police were trying to see who he contacted as they were trying to catch a bigger group. Neither of those options would be made public of course.
It's sad that those were my first thoughts as well - especially the first point.
It wasn't my first thought - but if, as the experts are saying, extremists are very hard to rehabilitate, then a change in sentencing/parole policy may be required. Not sure I'd trust the current government and their majority to do so in a sensible, proportionate manner.
The whole prison/parole system is critically underfunded. We could put more money into training and rehabilitation of all offenders, supporting them when they come out, or we could keep putting more money into rearresting offenders each time they are released, putting them through the system and locking then up again. Or we could put money into giving people better skills and opportunities from birth so that commiting crime in the first place is less likely
They get removed from firearms duty and have to go through a shedload of debriefing, counselling, re-evaluation etc against a background of media scrutiny and the usual bollocks from people who have literally no clue asking “why didn’t they just shoot to wound?” or questioning why they weren’t on scene earlier or whatever.
To spend your career training for something you hope to never do, which will be over in an instant, and have life and career changing implications for you. A level of responsibility that I personally could not deal with.
PLus I'm sure that once his name comes out in the press there'll be some jihadi cell plotting to kidnap and kill him on youtube.
Does anyone know if it is true that he will automatically be removed from firearms duty permanently?
Does anyone know if it is true that he will automatically be removed from firearms duty permanently?
No, he/she probably won't be suspended permanently. They are almost certainly suspended from operational firearms duties at the moment, partly to permit an investigation to proceed and partly to allow the officer and their family to have a break from the stresses of the role.
Contrary to Plus-Ones thoughts, shooting an individual (particularly at a moments notice) is quite a stressful experience!!!!!
Providing the officer and team are exonerated and providing they are willing to continue their role, there is no reason they can't return to normal operational duties.
It is worth remembering that all AFO's are volunteers, and get paid no more than a bobby walking the beat in any part of the U.K. (London weighting notwithstanding)
Judges sentencing remarks. Tried to influence his younger brothers - as young as 11. 🙁
https://www.judiciary.uk/judgments/r-v-sudesh-faraz-amman/
@yosemitepaul in a previous life having supported some training for CTFSO, CO19 and some specialist military units, I have the utmost respect for what they all do in this regard. Facing down individuals who may have suicide IEDs with nothing but small arms and a plate carrier. In busy public places. **** that noise. I'll take conventional ops thanks.
Made my old job seem much simpler in a lot of ways. Although a righteous shoot, I'm sure the individuals will be debriefing the whole situation for lessons learned and whomever put that particular dog down will have some settling of conscience to do.
I hope that is done painlessly and the process puts them back on duty where they clearly belong.
I hope that is done painlessly
Isn't there still a mandatory referral to the IOPC? So that "painless" debrief is likely to start with the words "you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if..."
Doubtful, firearms officers are authorised to carry firearms and empowered to make decisions to protect life up to the use of lethal force.
Saying nothing is not an option when you have those powers, you will answer all questions honestly and in full detail I would imagine. But with a fed rep there to ensure that the rules and process are followed.
This may provide more detail.
If someone dies within 72 hours of contact with police, which may have caused it or impacted it, it’s referred to IOPC, be that shooting or suicide. That process doesn’t need to start with a caution
Doubtful, firearms officers are authorised to carry firearms and empowered to make decisions to protect life up to the use of lethal force.
Saying nothing is not an option when you have those powers, you will answer all questions honestly and in full detail I would imagine. But with a fed rep there to ensure that the rules and process are followed.
This may provide more detail.
This is what I was trying to post.
They have all been sensible, serious and methodical when working
Especially the one who left his passport, David Camerons passport and a gun in an aeroplane toilet......
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51383104
I can only imagine the French cops must be a completely different breed. One death and 15 blindings of GJ protesters from 'non-lethal/aim at the body' fireballs and on film they seem to be gagging to get stuck in, even to firefighters. It makes you wonder what gets said and celebrated in their canteen culture.