[Closed] Terrorism

Cougar, ****ing on point. People just projecting their impotent rage, I'm sure there may have been a few tough people out last night, but unless you're a ninja there's not much you can do about a van or a knife.

I don't want anyone rounded up, I'd just like to try and help these lads, to hate that much is unhealthy, to kill others ain't cool, and to lie in the street after being dropped by an armed copper is no way for anybodies child to go.

Unfortunately I got in trouble a few years back, so I can't help. DBS prevents it, which is a pain. In fact I'd like to see a little less killing on the whole. It's all a bit pin toess and doesn't seem to be getting anybody anywhere.

@cougar

Agreed and I thank you for the support of my post. But it would only take the right conditioning and someone to offer the means and opportunity for one or 2 of the minority who think this way to fall into the same trap in just the same way.

More arrests in relation to the recent spate of terrorism

I posted a link to the independant on the other thread that higlighted how the MCB havr been utterly complacent and effectively created a victim industry out of the prevent scheme - it got deleted by a mod who then went on to let people bang on about internment. Seemingly if youre opinion is laughable they don't mind - but wor betide you post something that challenges their view.

Political Idlam is the problem - and it has been used as a tool of subdjugation throughout the world against people who haven't wronged Muslims - East Timor anyone?

But sure, keep saying it's our fault we got involved in a war because 2500 civilians of NATOs were killed in a single incident.

All this kid has heard his entire life is Muslim Terrorists. He had no understanding of the effects of foreign policy. He had no understanding of the effects on a population on an invasion.

Some scenes from 1988 - you may recall that this is long, long before drone strikes or wikileaks

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How about we stop pretending that Islamic extremism is something that stems out of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan?

MCTD has it above.
I doubt that we will stop these attacks this century. Sadly.
I am amazed how few we have actaully. Its so easy as yesterday and the Houses of Parliament event proved. Indeed these were no where near as bad as they could have ben. A bomb isn't so easy but I bet the materials are out there being collected as I type.
I bet I could wreak the same havoc myself within the next hour. Driving my Landrover round the carpark at Pedalabikeaway here in the FoD would do as much damage. I fail to see how we stop that.
Maybe we will reach the point where the structure of our streets will have to seperate vehicles and people. Another good reason for more pedestrianisation and cycle ways maybe? Won't stop a bomb but it might stop and artic ploughing through bus queues.

I don't believe that dialogue will work especially well. Worth a try but I think it needs a huge effort from the Muslim community at the highest level. Its happening but not at the level needed and official/governement pushing of this will be resented as interefering sadly. Society doesn't fail people. People fail society. Unles there is a learning disability humans know the rules. They choose to ignore them, be they the kids at school who chuck rubbers across the table or the nutter with a van as yesterday. Respect for them No way. They lost any chance of that when they started thinking in an antisocial way. Finally. Balls to the lot of them. Its not stopping me doing what I want to do. I wonder if I would be so brave if I ws in a different situation, ie a pub in London? Hmm. Even so Balls to them.

Suppose we could look at how the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia came about (and Israel for that matter)...

Look to British Intelligence and [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John_Philby ]St John Philby[/url] (father of Kim Philby, linked to among other things, the Kincora scandal)

[b]In November 1917 Philby was sent to the interior of the Arabian peninsula as head of a mission to Ibn Saud, the chieftain who professed Wahhabism[/b], the movement within Sunni Islam, and bitter enemy of Hussein bin Ali, Sharif of Mecca, leader of the Hashemites and of the Arab Revolt, both contenders to become "King of the Arabs". Philby secretly began to favour Ibn Saud even though British policy supported Sherif Hussein. Philby completed a crossing from Riyadh to Jeddah by a "backdoor" route, thus demonstrating Saud and not Hussein was in control of the Arabian highlands.

In November 1918, Britain and France issued the Anglo-French Declaration[5] to the Arabs, promising self-determination. Philby felt there was a betrayal of this assurance, along with others made in the Balfour Declaration and the Sykes-Picot Agreement. He saw the promise of a single unified Arab nation as having been betrayed. Philby argued that Ibn Saud was a "democrat" guiding his affairs "by mutual counsel" as laid out in the Quran, in contrast to George Curzon, 1st Marquess Curzon of Kedleston's support for Hussein. After the Iraqi revolt of 1920 Philby was appointed Minister of Internal Security in the British Mandate of Iraq.

In November 1921, Philby was named chief head of the Secret Service in Mandatory Palestine, working with T. E. Lawrence and meeting his American counterpart, Allen Dulles. At the end of 1922, Philby travelled to London for extensive meetings with parties involved in the Palestine question, included Winston Churchill, George V, Edward, Prince of Wales, Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild, Wickham Steed, and Chaim Weizmann.

Considering his role, mention of talks between Philby and one of the key architects of the Holocaust, Adolf Eichmann are particularly eye opening:

John Loftus, who worked in the United States Department of Justice Office of Special Investigations Nazi-hunting unit, claims Adolf Eichmann, while on a mission to the Middle East, met with Philby "during the mid-1930s"

+1

We've all got that out our systems what should we actually do then?

I'll kick it off..

Stop selling arms full stop not to certain groups just stop selling them.

Stop the flow of Saudi money into UK mosques.

Put more police on the streets in predominantly muslim areas.

Hold the web companies responsible for content.

We need to hold the press to account for inciting hatred and deliberately misleading the public.

you can keep your fishing through history for an answer that just isnt relevant anymore.
I will add to Woppits suggestions tho. (eyes & ears open and report it...)
Think about your immediate environment, think about what you are going to do.
Im not talking full on tinfoil hat paranoia here, but nobody wanders alone down a dark ally in town brandishing a fist full of fifties and the latest iphone, you keep your valuables where you know where they are and you make a huge fuss when you spot someone with their hand in your mates jacket.
Same(ish) rules apply. Take all reasonable precautions.
Your dessy for the evening has a lot more to do than just drive home.

How about we stop pretending that Islamic extremism is something that stems out of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan?

How about you stop trolling? As you are well aware, western meddling in the Islamic world did not begin with Iraq and Afghanistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/22/world/middleeast/years-of-torture-in-iran-comes-to-light.html

@ninfan

As you are well aware, the west have been involved in nefarious ways across the Middle East for a lot longer than people imagine. Whether it be Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Lebanon, Israel etc. etc.
We have pitted regime against regime, supplied arms to all sides to suit whatever political will the time has offered. Millions died in the Iran Iraq war and guess what, we armed both sides.

Look at the way we, The British Empire treated the population of India, The way we conducted Partition in 1947, or the way we conducted ourselves in Afghanistan in the 1800's. We could go further back to the Crusades.. It's just a long succession of perceived atrocities against Muslim or other populations that has cumulated to where we are today. And everyone of these ventures has been for the profit of a few and the expense of many innocent lives on all sides.

If more people realised this maybe there would be a better understanding. I am fully aware that there are no easy solutions but if we do not acknowledge our past errors we will be damned to repeat our mistakes forever.

you can keep your fishing through history for an answer that just isnt relevant anymore.

Bollocks...

The simple fact is, even though events that led to the formation of the Wahhabist Saudi state took place 100 years ago, the attack yesterday in somewhere I know well would never have happened, in the same way if your great grandparents hadn't been born, you wouldn't exist.

More recently, look into the [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_Club ]Safari Club[/url]

The creation of the Safari Club coincided with the consolidation of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI). The BCCI served to launder money, particularly for Saudi Arabia and the United States—whose CIA director in 1976, George H. W. Bush, had a personal account.[11]

BCCI also served as an intelligence gathering mechanism by virtue of its extensive contacts with underground organizations worldwide.

Casey took personal responsibility for maintaining contacts with Saudi intelligence, meeting monthly with Kamal Adham and then Prince Turki.[15] Some of the same actors were later connected to the Iran–Contra affair.[39]

The existence of the club was discovered by the Egyptian journalist Mohamed Hassanein Heikal, who was permitted to review documents confiscated during Revolution.[3][4][40]

Safari Club members, the BCCI, and the United States cooperated in arming and funding the Afghan mujahideen to oppose the Soviet Union.[41] The core of this plan was an agreement between the United States and Saudi Arabia to match each other in funding Afghan resistance to the USSR.[42] Like military support for Somalia, this policy began in 1980 and continued into the Reagan administration.

I believe the child abuse (in Rotherham st least) was going on well before any drone strikes in ****stan.

Indeed. Saville, Harris, and others were at it long before drones were invented.

You need to change the thread title. This thread appears to be about Muslim terrorists not simply terrorists.

Either you've succumbed to racism by implying terrorists means Muslims or you've chosen to discuss one aspect of terrorism but have written an incorrect thread title.

There are consistently acts of terrorism around the world that have nothing to do with Islam.

Very UKip to imply terrorists mean Muslims by default.

I don't think I need to. I make no such implication. You on the other hand...

And another +1 to lucorave

"Theresa May says 'enough is enough' after seven killed in London Bridge attack. Prime minister says there is ‘far too much tolerance of extremism’ in UK."

Yup.

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edenvalleyboy - Member 
You need to change the thread title. This thread appears to be about Muslim terrorists not simply terrorists.

Either you've succumbed to racism by implying terrorists means Muslims or you've chosen to discuss one aspect of terrorism but have written an incorrect thread title.

There are consistently acts of terrorism around the world that have nothing to do with Islam.

Very UKip to imply terrorists mean Muslims by default.

All very true. I don't like equating terrorism to Islam (not Islam itself but "radical" Islam inspired terrorism if you like), but there's no denying the change in terrorism in Europe and how most people will now just assume a terrorist incident in Europe is related to Islam.

Given that since 2000 in Europe, the majority have been. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Europe#Lists_of_incidents

What would I do,
1. Close all faith schools, secular schools only from now on with a varied mix of children from all races.
2. No single race/religion 'ghettos' diversity is needed.
3. Discourage/ban the wearing of the burka, it's just a control garment forced onto women.
4. Outlaw Halal slaughter, again religion has no place in the food chain.
Integration is the only way forward, and as this is the UK then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round. If we could get the kids playing together from an early age this would all be cleared up in a matter of a few years.

a varied mix of children from all races

How you going to do that in places like Berwick, Inverness, Penrith, etc.

Are you going to bus people in?

Lucorave - we all know a while back the Ottomans subdjugated the Greeks as well - not sure there are any Greeks funding terrorism against Turkey right now to take Northern Cyprus.

Political Islam - has always taken a chauvanistic and expansionist stance in regards to their neighbours - maybe our ancestors when they laid waste to the middle eastern empires and divied them up between various European powers....remembered that.

then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round

What would you do about the whole arming, training and brainwashing people to fulfil covert geopolitical and economic objectives on behalf of Her Majesty's government?

Or selling weapons that create massive humanitarian crises such as what's currently occuring in Yemen?

Or does that not matter despite the inevitable blowback, because it's profitable for interests connected with Her Majesty's Government?

you can keep your fishing through history for an [b][u]answer that just isnt relevant anymore.[/u][/b]

Bollocks...

The simple fact is, even though events that led to the formation of the Wahhabist Saudi state took place 100 years ago, the attack yesterday in somewhere I know well would never have happened

call it how you like JHJ - i know how we got here, unless you can change history, its not an answer?

2. No single race/religion 'ghettos' diversity is needed.

I suggest an obligatory house/job/school swap of one in twenty households between rural Surrey and inner-city Leicester. 💡

Integration is the only way forward, and as this is the UK then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round. If we could get the kids playing together from an early age this would all be cleared up in a matter of a few years.

Think about it from the Muslim 'incomers' perspective for a second. If faced by a hostile local community that shout '****' and much worse at you across the street where is the incentive to integrate? The current situation is as much the white British people's fault for shunning and ostracising as it is the muslim communities fault for not integrating.

its not an answer?

Before you can find a solution, you need to diagnose the root of the problem; it's only in the last year or 2 more people are becoming aware of the role of the Saudi Empire in actively spreading extremist ideology and the strange and disturbing trend of continued support from western governments and intelligence agencies.

Raising awareness is the 1st step in bringing about positive change and practical solutions, on a grass roots level.

The only way to totally stop these attacks is to have a level of state control and intrusion that we can't financially afford, and I wouldn't want to live under.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40150162/london-attack-theresa-may-says-things-need-to-change

convert

Think about it from the Muslim 'incomers' perspective for a second. If faced by a hostile local community that shout '****' and much worse at you across the street where is the incentive to integrate?

As opposed to actual murderous sectarian hatred they may have left in other countries? Sunni's and Shia's don't exactly live hand in hand in many places. War, ethnic cleansing, genocide and god knows what else people have left behind but yeah someone "shouting ****" probably makes them see western society as something that needs destroyed.

The current situation is as much the white British people's fault for shunning and ostracising as it is the muslim communities fault for not integrating.

No it's not. That's nonsense*. The average "white" British person has little or no blame or responsibility for people conspiring to go on a murderous rampage in the name of Allah.

*awaits 3 week ban.

If we could get the kids playing together from an early age this would all be cleared up in a matter of a few years.

I have the most bizarre image in my head of you inviting the Muslim kids over and then force feeding them sausages, whilst shouting "this is ENGLAND".

1. Close all faith schools, secular schools only from now on with a varied mix of children from all races.
2. No single race/religion 'ghettos' diversity is needed.
3. Discourage/ban the wearing of the burka, it's just a control garment forced onto women.
4. Outlaw Halal slaughter, again religion has no place in the food chain.

Ah, four of the commandments of the Western Religion.

Integration is the only way forward, and as this is the UK then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

The western Religion has spoken.

@tom_w1987

http://www.mfa.gov.tr/greek-cypriot-state-terror-revealed.en.mfa

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/famagusta-ghost-town-heart-cyprus/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EOKA_B

For more information on the alignment of various terror organisations in Turkey and the Middle East I would recommend you look at what Sibel Edmonds, former FBI Officer, has to offer on the subject. You may find some enlightening information on our modern situation.

There is a reason the United States Intelligence Community placed so many gagging orders? on her.

Integration is the only way forward, and as this is the UK then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round.

What if they don't want to, what if they are happy as they are. Integration sounds like the ideal but that is not how the human race works and is largely a dream scenario.

Take the million or so brits in Spain. Have they spread themselves across the whole of Spain integrating into all the villages and small towns. No, they have largely stayed together and go to the "british" pub and have fish and chips. This is not a muslim/UK integration issue.

I don't think the British pensioners are blowing themselves up on the Costa del Sol though kerley.

I have no clue what you are going on about El-bent.

. The average "white" British person has little or no blame or responsibility for people conspiring to go on a murderous rampage in the name of Allah.

as for integration its a human thing and everyone needs to do more.
Who here thinks the brits in spain are wandering around perfectly integrated and indistinguishable from the local populace?

its an interesting tangent
how is the expat community viewed across the rest of spain? Do they bring wealth and are tolerated, or do they do nothing for the average espanol

/tangent

Integration sounds like the ideal but that is not how the human race works and is largely a dream scenario

British history disagrees. We're full of all sorts of people from all over the world. The end of street has families from Europe, South Asia, East Asia, the Middle East and Southern Africa, and their kids are all everyday British kids with Cardiff accents. One generation is all it took. That's not to mention Jews, Hugenots, and whoever else from history.

The thing is that when people integrate, you don't notice them. I had a British Muslim colleague, he was the same as everyone else. In fact even more cynically grumpily piss-takingly British than the rest of us.

Yes and they all fit in and rub along together with largely shared values...except one group of course.

Thats not blaming that group btw but the influencers we let prey on them.

We (our leaders) are talking to the wrong people in the Muslim community. The council are all self selected, male and older. The majority of the population group is young and female. Just maybe we should get this sorted first?
(Grabbed from The Conversation UK) earlier

Sunni's and Shia'

Short marriage to be sure - but I love I Got You Babe.

except one group of course

Which group?

@MG
I think the time for your kind of silliness has past.

[quote=Sandwich ]We (our leaders) are talking to the wrong people in the Muslim community. The council are all self selected, male and older. The majority of the population group is young and female. Just maybe we should get this sorted first?
(Grabbed from The Conversation UK) earlier

Just not true
http://www.mcb.org.uk/announcement-of-mcb-election-candidates/

Who here thinks the brits in spain are wandering around perfectly integrated and indistinguishable from the local populace?

Well, I probably did get a bit more burnt than my clubmates this weekend during the race, but at the same time I think I'm fairly integrated. So to answer the question: yes and no.

Turns out one of the trio was reported by a neighbour recently. The intelligence people are appearing increasingly incompetent. Maybe good old fashioned men on the ground info gathering and not blanket surveillance should be a top priority. More wheat less chaff.

I have no clue what you are going on about El-bent.

How comes I'm not surprised at this?

@MG
I think the time for your kind of silliness has past.

Not being silly. If you don't understand my question then say so, don't insult.

I wanted to know if wilburt was suggesting Muslims don't integrate? Or singling out some sub-set of Muslims for not integrating? The former is manifestly not true, the latter is a pointlessly self-referential - of course people who don't integrate don't integrate, by definition. There will always be immigrants who don't integrate, because some of them are simply shy.

The intelligence people are appearing increasingly incompetent.

Or just under-resourced?

Apparently five other potential attacks have been foiled in the last ten weeks.
I think the intelligence services are simply overwhelmed.
And what do you then do with the suspect? You need fairly firm evidence to put them in jail, where they would just end up radicalising other people.
Perhaps send them to Downing St for a telling off by the bloody difficult woman, after she has told off Google and Facebook.

No it's not. That's nonsense*. The average "white" British person has little or no blame or responsibility for people conspiring to go on a murderous rampage in the name of Allah.

You misinterpreted what I meant. I meant the current level of integration or lack there of is as much the responsibility of the white British as it is the Muslim immigrants (or two or three generations standing).

Maybe good old fashioned men on the ground info gathering and not blanket surveillance should be a top priority.

I can tell you very definitely that Islam discourages integration.

Denying that is silly.

The intelligence people are appearing increasingly incompetent.

Or just swamped with information keeping an eye on 20,000 plus people? And just throwing money and staff at the problem means you have less experienced people trying to do the same impossible task.

except [b] a tiny minority of [/b] one group of course

I think you'll find

I'm not talking about the ones who kill people but the ones who reject western values.

They are not a tiny minority and should be stopped.

I can tell you very definitely that Islam discourages integration

Can you go into a bit more detail?

Manchester is presently delivering a massive two fingers to terrorism! 🙂

Pop down to Halifax, Dewsbury, Rochdale etc with your daughter or wife.
Have a walk around so how it works out for them.

I'm not talking about the ones who kill people but the ones who reject western values.

They are not a tiny minority and should be stopped.

This group always get mentioned, yet despite living, working and close friendships with people who follow Islam - they seem a very small, perhaps tiny minority. This, in a major city with a large Muslim population - Birmingham.

I don't just associate with male Muslims but Muslim women and whole families too. Not just professional or middle class Muslims either l, but those from Sparkhill, Ward End, Sparkbrook etc. So surely they cannot be a large group?

What would I do,
1. Close all faith schools, secular schools only from now on with a varied mix of children from all races.
2. No single race/religion 'ghettos' diversity is needed.
3. Discourage/ban the wearing of the burka, it's just a control garment forced onto women.
4. Outlaw Halal slaughter, again religion has no place in the food chain.
Integration is the only way forward, and as this is the UK then races and religions have to integrate into OUR way of life not the other way round. If we could get the kids playing together from an early age this would all be cleared up in a matter of a few years.

secular education system you say? Like France? How well is that working out for them? give me a break, your rhetoric is rooted in prejudice, whilst you seek a solution however noble that is, further persecution is not the answer.

Turns out one of the trio was reported by a neighbour recently. The intelligence people are appearing increasingly incompetent. Maybe good old fashioned men on the ground info gathering and not blanket surveillance should be a top priority. More wheat less chaff.

Without going into specifics, we live in a societal time when there has been a huge upswing against intelligence gathering and 'secrets'. Wiki leaks, Snowden etc have moved the dial on public tolerance of being surveilled. However, the public has an expectation of safety which does sadly require intelligence operations and secrecy. A delicate balance. I work in this area and all I will say is for every successful attack there will have been myriads of foiled ones which you will never hear about. I do think things need to change but covert comms channels make it incredibly difficult to monitor, WhatsApp I'm looking at you. Tough times for sure. What I'm sure of is they aren't incompetent.

If we could get the kids playing together from an early age this would all be cleared up in a matter of a few years.

They do, I was walking through Birmingham the other day and there was half a dozen kids, average age of 6, in a variety of skin colours and speaking brummie with a variety of accents running around and playing happily together.

The problem is, as they grow up the media and their older peers or parents will teach them that there accents and skins makes them different. Racism and fear of other cultures is taught. Simple as, it's nurture not nature.

reject western values

What does that even mean? Just over 50% of those who voted last June did that (or my perception of those value). I would probably find this QT lot equally contemptible as those who committed the atrocities in London and Manchester - can we intern them aswell?

[img] ?w=470[/img]

Did you not learn from the last time for arguing on a thread where respect should be shown? See you in 2 weeks.

If only the numbers of police hadn't been cut.

equally contemptible as those who committed the atrocities in London and Manchester

Delete your account.

[quote=molgrips ]I can tell you very definitely that Islam discourages integration
Can you go into a bit more detail?

Hadith or Koranic reference please

My specific objection Nzcol is the blanket collection of information. Targeted intelligence there isn't a problem with at any level. I regularly read Schneier and the intelligence community is constantly over reaching its remit. I don't expect to be 100% safe that is incompatible with a free society. Concentration on those that are reported by the community would be a better approach than over reliance on blanket computer monitoring. 2 attacks from people reported is incompetence get out from behind the screen and do it the old fashioned way.

[quote=Nipper99 said]I would probably find this QT lot equally contemptible as those who committed the atrocities in London and Manchester

Then you are an idiot.

At a bit of a tangent maybe law enforcement and the judiciary might take road killings of cyclists a little more seriously as a result of Westminster and London Bridge. We can but hope! 😉

Pop down to Halifax, Dewsbury, Rochdale etc with your daughter or wife.
Have a walk around so how it works out for them.

I've been to Halifax. Saw nothing unusual.

I was walking through Birmingham the other day and there was half a dozen kids, average age of 6, in a variety of skin colours and speaking brummie with a variety of accents running around and playing happily together.

I think the majority of people do this. It's just that some people want to focus on the segregationists so they notice that more than integration.

nickhit3

secular education system you say? Like France? How well is that working out for them? g

That's got far less to do with France's education system and more to do with their colonial forays into muslim nations in North Africa and subsequent ghettoisation of said muslims creating a fertile breeding ground for radicalisation.

Pop down to Halifax, Dewsbury, Rochdale etc with your daughter or wife.
Have a walk around so how it works out for them.

What's this even supposed to mean? I was born and raised near Dewsbury and have also lived in Halifax. I genuinely have no idea what you are going on about.

+1 Sandwich, I completely agree.

I work in an Asian area of Rochdale.
I've absolutely no idea what you're on about either.
Neither do my African, European and Asian colleagues who have just read this thread and your comments.

One of our residents, a Muslim man, has been in tears all day, repeatedly asking why these people are doing this in the name of his religion.
His parents can't give him an answer, neither can I.

Islam doesn't make people do this.
Ignorance makes people do this.

Love, light and peace people.

I can tell you very definitely that Islam discourages integration.

Denying that is silly.

I drove past my mum's house yesterday to find her (Muslim) next-door neighbour doing a load of gardening for her. I assume it's part of Ramadan, one of its tenets being "Generosity." Next time I'm passing I'll be sure to knock on his door and tell him what a bad Muslim he is.

My views on organised religion are well documented, but I live in an area with a larger-than-average Asian populace and I can tell you from first-hand experience who is "integrating" and who isn't round here. All the shitehawks on my block are white.

Rusty Spanner

Islam doesn't make people do this.
Ignorance makes people do this.

And yet there will obviously be corners of the world where the attack will be celebrated. Since there is no canonical authority on what is correct in regards to Islam it comes down to who shouts loudest and I imagine for moderates it's hard to shout down the Saudi's and their $100 billion a year budget of hatred.

well the term canonical refers to christianity, and RC at that, so of course its true they dont have it just like christanity does not have the hadith

Hey well done you scored points. Here, take some points.

I still don't know what you mean.

God was created by man.
Everything done in the name of God is the work of man, with all his failings and vulnerabilities.

Any thought, any ideology can be used to influence people in an infinite variety of ways.
It's just how we are.

Blaming Islam makes about as much sense as blaming the Wright brothers for a plane crash.

mitsumonkey - Member
What would I do,
1. Close all faith schools, secular schools only from now on with a varied mix of children from all races.

I agree completely, ****ing madness that we create divisions so young, would be hugely unpopular with Catholics, Muslims, Jews, etc etc, Sadly Blair loved them and his heirs Cameron and Gove loved the free school as a way to splinter education in the name of parental choice, Maybot wants her grammar schools too so that's a no no

2. No single race/religion 'ghettos' diversity is needed.

3. Discourage/ban the wearing of the burka, it's just a control garment forced onto women.

4. Outlaw Halal slaughter, again religion has no place in the food chain.

Rusty Spanner - Member

I still don't know what you mean.

God was created by man.
Everything done in the name of God is the work of man, with all his failings and vulnerabilities.

How do you think this argument would have fared against the young men who tried to murder people with a van, then began stabbing random stangers with hunting knives?

Do you think you would have been able to stop them in their tracks? Do you think at any point you would be able to make them question the validity of their beliefs?

Any thought, any ideology can be used to influence people in an infinite variety of ways.
It's just how we are.

So are all beliefs equally dangerous and equally benign? Does Buddism or Sikhism have the same potential for violence as christiantiy or Islam? Is it impossible to have a set of beliefs that can't be misconstrued or misinterpreted or twisted towards violence?

Awaits three week ban.

Is it impossible to have a set of beliefs that can't be misconstrued or misinterpreted or twisted towards violence?

Quite possibly very rare...

People form their beliefs to their desires, not generally the other way round.

[quote=jimjam ]Hey well done you scored points. Here, take some points.

I pointed out a flaw in your point, react how you feel best represents you

What would I do,
1. Close all faith schools, secular schools only from now on with a varied mix of children from all races.

2. No single race/religion 'ghettos' diversity is needed.

3. Discourage/ban the wearing of the burka, it's just a control garment forced onto women.

4. Outlaw Halal slaughter, again religion has no place in the food chain.

Junkyard

I pointed out a flaw in your point, react how you feel best represents you

No you were just being a pedant, trying to score points by deliberately misinterpreting my use of the term "canon". Either that or your not aware of the broader use of the word canon and the term canonical which doesn't necessarily refer to christianity or catholocism.

i am always astounded when meat eaters suddenly care about animal welfare issues.

Have you witnessed both forms of slaughter first hand for the comparison? I have btw.