Terrifying close pass whilst road riding-advice requests

Pickup and sheep trailer - nowhere near Stirling were you? https://road.cc/content/news/christina-mackenzie-disgusted-hit-and-run-driver-296657

I'm guessing not Scotland given there'a actually an online portal for you to be able to use. Not sure what next course of ation, but I'd not be happy either. There's no online portal in Scotland so I'll be back on to the non-emergency line to demand a better response.

If there was swearing on the video then the police will probably charge you with something

It's a sad reflection of how overwhelmingly car-centric this country is that crimes that should/would be followed up in any other circumstances just get a blind eye turned to them.

This morning I absolutely lost it at the driver of a big Merc (E or S), who decided to overtake me on a bend, then when there was an oncoming car just pulled into me rather than stop, then decided to slow down so I was stuck alongside him. Why, you've already demonstrated an offensive level of ineptitude and lack of spatial awareness, at this point you may as well go forwards as back.

Is the 14 day limit a self inflicted thing by the police or is it something to do with it being a traffic offence? In any other walk of life the statute of limitation would be massively longer.

An aside - what prompted it as an incident? If you put you moron logic head on was it just you existing that started it or did he get delayed by a handful of seconds? As a placid kind of person on and off the road (and a happy drunk) I sometimes find it hard to understand how people manage to get themselves wound up enough to a road rage red mist or a bit fighty.

🤣

No provocation on my part other than my existence, on that section of lane
Reviewing the video, the delay was minimal ie attempted to pass almost immediately
The verge here was soft , v muddy and sloping down to a ditch
I’d intended to pull in at the next passing place when I became aware-which I did: to receive further verbals
Throughout I said nothing
Apart from a couple of f-g hells during the pass

North Yorkshire

Tell the police the driver mis-gendered you. He/She/They'll be round there in a shot...

The incident was a deliberate and reckless act potentially threatening my life

Thats a 999 as far as I'm concerned. Dont back down.

In my experince NYP are usually pretty good too so stick with it.

I didn’t phone 999 because the first opportunity was after they’d driven off
I was too shaken and not thinking clearly also
I feel very cautious about possibly wasting police time
But I’d like to pursue this outcome to a successful conclusion if at all possible

It involved deliberate intimidation

and

I phoned the police non emergency line

Do not go together. It was either the one or it was the other. You told the police it wasn't an emergency and they've reacted accordingly. I get why you perhaps don't want to bother the cops or perhaps you don't think it was worth a 999 call, but the cops (like every other public service from the NHS to the courts ) is running on 2 people, a part time paper clip and a website. Don't be surprised if they don't react like International Rescue when you've told them already that they don't need to.

TL:DR Don't vote Tory.

Sheep trailer? It'll be a sheep farmer and it's lambing season...

trace down the farm the farmer works on and release a a pack of hungry foxes into the lambing enclosure.

typical angry farmer by the sounds of it

TL:DR Don’t vote Tory.

Never have
Never would

I may not have mastered block quotes yet

 

Let me guess.
Came up behind you driving too quickly for the road and the type of vehicle.
Waited 2 seconds before pressing the clutch and revving the shit out the engine.
You didn't evaporate so 4 seconds later the horn of retribution was deployed repeatedly.
You didn't suddenly transform into a Honda Fire blade, so the knuckle head just overtook anyway, with 4in of ropm for the shitbox landy, and 2in for the wider flatbed trailer.
Omce alongside he decided to teach you a lesson for having the audacity to breath by pulling left to push you off the road without giving a rats ass if you ended up under the trailer.
Then an oncoming car forced him to stop so you could exchange pleasantries.
If it had been his daughter on a horse he probably would have waited 5 mins, but a bloody cyclist, well thay can all die painfully if they dare delay him for 5 seconds from his most important job in the world.
Tosser.
NYP traffic unit
NYP crime commissioner.
MYP cheif constable with the video.
Give them 3 days to follow up then papers, YouTube, bombers, spray all his sheep rainbow colours, hammer frozen sausage into the landy etc

I feel very cautious about possibly wasting police time

This is absolutely not wasting police time.

Is the 14 day limit a self inflicted thing by the police or is it something to do with it being a traffic offence? In any other walk of life the statute of limitation would be massively longer.

There is a requirement for *some* road traffic offences where the offender was not stopped and warned at the time, that the police issue a notice of intended prosecution be served either on the driver or on the registered keeper of the vehicle.  The logic is to give you a reasonable opportunity to preserve any evidence that may support your defence (e.g. records of who was driving, in modern times dash cam footage etc).

It also does not apply for some of the most serious offences (like causing death/injury by).  Realistically bad overtakes without a collision are prosecuted as Careless/Inconsiderate driving (s3 of the RTA), unfortunately for the OP the requirements for notice of intended prosecution do apply in these cases.  The requirement does not apply if there is an accident (its reasonable to assume anyone involved in an accident knows there is a risk of prosecution).

s3(a) of the Road Traffic Offenders act does provide a 'get out' for the police if it is not their fault they can't ID the person to serve (e.g. if theres no keeper registered at DVLA, or false plates etc).  If the police are saying it does not apply (and I think they are right) then they have failed in the eyes of the law to apply reasonable diligence. Is it fair that when the state's law enforcement agency doesn't apply reasonable diligence that "offenders get away with it" probably not, but it's better than the state having the power to pursue prosecutions even when the state screwed up.

If the footage really shows threatening behaviour the police could prosecute it as Breach of the Peace (or similar) which will not have the same time limit.  i'd suggest to get that to happen you need a traffic cop who really is disgusted by what he sees in the video, and someone at CPS who isn't afraid to take a risk.   No audio will make that harder.

The incident was a deliberate and reckless act potentially threatening my life
How can I pursue/escalate this please

To be honest its probably not worth the stress, hassle etc.  You are very unlikely to succeed now that the time limit has passed.  Would it be more frustrating if 18 months from now (probably having turned up for court twice and sat around all day whilst the case didn't go ahead) the Prosecutor on the day thanks you for coming but says "sorry we haven't got some critical paperwork in order (or failed to disclose it) so are dropping the case" or "having reviewed the file I don't believe there is evidence of the crime alleged, so CPS will not pursue" or "the accused pled guilty to another offence last week as part of an arrangement for us to accept not guilty today" because all of them are possible - all of them happen every day and an odd case (like using non road traffic stuff for a driving offence) is probably more likely to fall over.  And you should maybe consider what would have happened if the police did their bit quickly and the driver put his hands up to it - good chance he'd have been offered (and grudginlgy accepted) a "What's driving us" course where he sits in a classroom for half a day and every so often moans about bloody cyclists holding up essential farm traffic whilst the others similarly tut that they weren't actually using their phone, or only parked on the zig zag lines to get cash out the bank.

Is the 14 day limit a self inflicted thing by the police or is it something to do with it being a traffic offence? In any other walk of life the statute of limitation would be massively longer.

There is a requirement for *some* road traffic offences where the offender was not stopped and warned at the time, that the police issue a notice of intended prosecution be served either on the driver or on the registered keeper of the vehicle.  The logic is to give you a reasonable opportunity to preserve any evidence that may support your defence (e.g. records of who was driving, in modern times dash cam footage etc).

It also does not apply for some of the most serious offences (like causing death/injury by).  Realistically bad overtakes without a collision are prosecuted as Careless/Inconsiderate driving (s3 of the RTA), unfortunately for the OP the requirements for notice of intended prosecution do apply in these cases.  The requirement does not apply if there is an accident (its reasonable to assume anyone involved in an accident knows there is a risk of prosecution).

s3(a) of the Road Traffic Offenders act does provide a ‘get out’ for the police if it is not their fault they can’t ID the person to serve (e.g. if theres no keeper registered at DVLA, or false plates etc).  If the police are saying it does not apply (and I think they are right) then they have failed in the eyes of the law to apply reasonable diligence. Is it fair that when the state’s law enforcement agency doesn’t apply reasonable diligence that “offenders get away with it” probably not, but it’s better than the state having the power to pursue prosecutions even when the state screwed up.

If the footage really shows threatening behaviour the police could prosecute it as Breach of the Peace (or similar) which will not have the same time limit.  i’d suggest to get that to happen you need a traffic cop who really is disgusted by what he sees in the video, and someone at CPS who isn’t afraid to take a risk.   No audio will make that harder.

The incident was a deliberate and reckless act potentially threatening my life
How can I pursue/escalate this please

To be honest its probably not worth the stress, hassle etc.  You are very unlikely to succeed now that the time limit has passed.  Would it be more frustrating if 18 months from now (probably having turned up for court twice and sat around all day whilst the case didn’t go ahead) the Prosecutor on the day thanks you for coming but says “sorry we haven’t got some critical paperwork in order (or failed to disclose it) so are dropping the case” or “having reviewed the file I don’t believe there is evidence of the crime alleged, so CPS will not pursue” or “the accused pled guilty to another offence last week as part of an arrangement for us to accept not guilty today” because all of them are possible – all of them happen every day and an odd case (like using non road traffic stuff for a driving offence) is probably more likely to fall over.  And you should maybe consider what would have happened if the police did their bit quickly and the driver put his hands up to it – good chance he’d have been offered (and grudginlgy accepted) a “What’s driving us” course where he sits in a classroom for half a day and every so often moans about bloody cyclists holding up essential farm traffic whilst the others similarly tut that they weren’t actually using their phone, or only parked on the zig zag lines to get cash out the bank.

And poly gives a perfect, if rather verbose explanation as to why trusting or even expecting any Police force in the UK to actually do anything other than issue a crime reference number to use in an insurance claim is a pitiful waste of time.

Reminds me of the guy at my club who was almost run off the road by a coach, the driver of which subsequently shouted all kinds of abuse at the poor chap

Retribution was had the following Monday when the club member rocked up at the chaps work in his official capacity ….of traffic cop…

Think the driver lost his job over that as I recall😂😂

You are very unlikely to succeed now that the time limit has passed.

Only 3 days passed thus far
Sorry for the confusion

 

And poly gives a perfect, if rather verbose

Poly.....verbose.....well, that's entirely out of character 😀

Do not go together. It was either the one or it was the other. You told the police it wasn’t an emergency and they’ve reacted accordingly. I get why you perhaps don’t want to bother the cops or perhaps you don’t think it was worth a 999 call, but the cops (like every other public service from the NHS to the courts ) is running on 2 people, a part time paper clip and a website. Don’t be surprised if they don’t react like International Rescue when you’ve told them already that they don’t need to.

Not really.

999 and 101 AFAIK (in the center's I've worked in) end up at the same switchboard (once you've rung 999 and asked for police, 101 goes directly to them), the only difference is 101 calls won't get answered until all 999's have been cleared. If you're phoning 999 for a non-emergency then you're just gaming an overstretched system and possibly delaying them picking up an actual emergency call.

999 if there's a crime in progress or a threat to someone, everything else 101.

If you phone 101 and report something they'll still send a car out if they can/it's worthwhile (I've ended up having that happen twice myself).

I thought the suggestion was that although we were only 3 days in the report would be sitting in the to do file a d might not get to the top in time.

I've actually seen the opposite scenario to this. Cyclist hit by car. Injured. Reported accident at police station but wasn't willing to give a statement so the driver could be charged.

Tell the police the driver mis-gendered you. He/She/They’ll be round there in a shot…

Time you stopped reading the Daily Mail

I thought the suggestion was that although we were only 3 days in the report would be sitting in the to do file a d might not get to the top in time.

Ah sorry, yeah I've just read the OP again.  You are right, oddly they seem to have the resource to explain what happens if they don't do anything but not do the right thing in the first place.  In that case speak to cops and make a fuss.  If you don't like the answer complain to your local P&CC (are they due to be elected in May?).  Remind them that ALL they need to do is post a standard template letter within the 14 days.

Poly…..verbose…..well, that’s entirely out of character 😀

🙂

Reminds me of the guy at my club who was almost run off the road by a coach, the driver of which subsequently shouted all kinds of abuse at the poor chap

Retribution was had the following Monday when the club member rocked up at the chaps work in his official capacity ….of traffic cop…

Lovely bit of karma but it is a shame that it was only dealt with because the victim was also the cop. His life is no more important than anyone elses.

His life is no more important than anyone elses.

Even sheep on a trailer. But no, in the real world we're not important because 'bloody cyclists'.

And poly gives a perfect, if rather verbose explanation as to why trusting or even expecting any Police force in the UK to actually do anything other than issue a crime reference number to use in an insurance claim is a pitiful waste of time.

Sorry for your experience, but from friends who ride around the Notts/Derbys/Leicester borders all 3 are excellent. One seems to report 2-3 a week and gets at least a warning letter sent, he's currently got 3 awaiting a court appearance.

Which is the standard it should be.

One seems to report 2-3 a week

Blimey...a week? I'm not sure I'd still be riding (or at least the routes he does) if I was getting that many reportable close passes a week - well done him on his perseverance....I think.

Tell the police the driver mis-gendered you. He/She/They’ll be round there in a shot…

Time you stopped reading the Daily Mail

don't rise to it, can only see one reason why this comment was made.

spray all his sheep rainbow colours

if this is the only viable course I’m in!

we were dangerously close passed by a bus on a quiet back road. Had he waited about 20 seconds we would have passed the pinch point and there would have been no bothers.

now i’m not a serial complainer, in fact this was the first time I’ve felt that strongly so i reported to both the bus company and Derbyshire police.

The police reviewed the bus cctv and the officer concluded we were basically at fault for cycling on a back road, we shouldn’t have been in the way of the bus and i should consider my own actions in complaining as he was a very experienced driver and complaints like mine could be damaging to him.

The police response was in equal measures very disappointing and not a surprise.
OP. I’d take a deep breath and chalk it down to experience. You’ll just get wound up if you try to take it anywhere

The police reviewed the bus cctv and the officer concluded we were basically at fault for cycling on a back road, we shouldn’t have been in the way of the bus and i should consider my own actions in complaining as he was a very experienced driver and complaints like mine could be damaging to him.

That’s not how roads work though. I would be complaining to their superiors. Sort of response you’d expect from a DM comments section

Ditto
Very close pass by Fire Engine, not on call no blue lights got up close in a 30 limit.
Pinch point with one of those ridiculous cyclist off ramp, 90 degree turn avoid some plant pots, then 90 degrees rejoin.
Needless to say i went straight on as the fire engine expected me to follow the stupid detour.
I was going 21 or 22 mph, he was going a nearer 40. Approx 6in off my bar end.
Complained, reviewed, fobbed off with
a cynical reply. professional drivers, take cyclist safely seriously, wasn't speeding, wasn't that close.
I left it at that and every time i drive through the pinch point i shudder.

Blimey…a week? I’m not sure I’d still be riding (or at least the routes he does) if I was getting that many reportable close passes a week – well done him on his perseverance….I think.

I stopped riding on the roads in the 90's because I realised that I was actually spending more time annoyed with / arguing with drivers than enjoying the cycling.  I dread to think what I'd have been like if there had been portable cameras.  I like to believe I'm older and wiser now, and have gone back to the roads. Probably I'm just a bit desensitized to it, but I actually see worse driving (including to cyclists) when I'm behind the wheel than when I'm on the bike.

My road riding is mainly around Glasgw, East and West Dunbartonshire and Renfrewshire. I honestly can't remember the last time I had a close pass. I'm out two or three times a week.

Maybe because it's mainly urban riding so drivers are getting held up anyway? Maybe because I use a mirror and ride a metre from the kerb. Any pass that would be closer than 2 or 3 feet I see coming and drift left as it passes. But I can't remember needing to do that much.

Route choice? A regular route includes Hardgate to the Erskine Bridge along the A82. I use the shared pavement for that stretch. Crazy not to. That mile of road had two cyclist death within 6 months back in 2016. There is another couple of roads I tend to avoid but largely happy cycling anywhere inside the city.

I have once had to ride off the road onto the gravel shoulder to avoid being hit by a 60mph camper van. That was Nevada though. While it was annoying as I had watched him coming in my mirror and was aware that he couldn't move out because of oncoming cars and was showing no signs of slowing. So I was ready and picking my spot and stayed upright.

In fairness it is also partly because I don't bike commute so I can pick and choose times of day etc. I have used this road for years with no issues (Balmore Road) . This youtuber has regular problems on it.

I think thats less of a technicality, more about laziness.
We can clearly see the identity of the driver by the hat he is wearing. A hat that of the one or maybe two people that would be in charge of that car it can only be.

This was a simple overtake that didnt end in disaster, but imagine if it was the case of a murder or something really bad. Im quite sure that identifying feature would have pretty much convicted him.

Not sure what to advise but situations like these are putting me off investing in cameras for my road bike. I do a lot of miles on country lanes (audax rider) and find most farmers are pretty considerate but there is the occasional exception. The main culprits are people in posh 4x4s in my experience.

Report a road traffic incident | North Yorkshire Police

FunkyDunc
Free Member
Report a road traffic incident | North Yorkshire Police

Posted 1 hour ago

Have already done this after d/w non emergency line

Update:
Received email confirming positive action

Unfortunately their policy is not to share whether this is a letter, a course or something stronger

Is there an open source option for me to follow up the outcome available please
This episode matters to me and I intend to escalate if the result is too trivial

Many thanks for the feedback thus far on my OP

I think thats less of a technicality, more about laziness.
We can clearly see the identity of the driver by the hat he is wearing. A hat that of the one or maybe two people that would be in charge of that car it can only be.

Its both.  There is a technicality (which is publicised on the web) where if the s172 request is returned without signing it then it can't be used as definitive proof of the driver (on its own).  In England there is case law that not signing the s172 request is itself an offence but the Procurator Fiscal believes that this may not be the case in Scotland.  They don't want to test the law in the appeal court because if "unsigned" is legal in Scotland all road traffic stuff is screwed.  I've no idea why they haven't brought forward a revision to the law to close any potential gap.

However you are right there is laziness/overwork/lack of experience at play here.  A s172 request is only one way to prove the identity of the driver.  There's video evidence here. The cyclist (or any other witnesses) may be able to identify the driver.  In other cases a circumstantial case from insurance database, the registered keeper, the fact an unsigned s172 request was provided by someone etc could still be made - although that probably needs you to spot the issue before the trial day which means the PF actually has to look at the file properly (so you can have a police officer there with insurance details, the person who sent and received the s172 letter to speak to it etc).  But the problem is these cases are tried in summary courts, usually with either the least experienced PF's who get backed into a corner or a very experienced PF who's mission is to get through the cases as quickly as possible and get back to their "more important" other work.  One day a PF will test it - if they win it may go a long way to shutting the unsigned loop hole.

I'm very surprised the assault didn't get pursued.  With a second witness and the video, it seems like a straightforward case.  I do wonder if people are regularly complaining to the cops if that dilutes their personal credibility with those officers though.  Whilst there's absolutely no excuse for an assault like that, both the earlier overtake and that filter aren't moves I'd have made - its not just car drivers who are impatient and have "must get past" syndrome.

I’m very surprised the assault didn’t get pursued.

The assault was pursued. The driver got a Recorded Police Warning. In 2020-21 there was 1908 assaults disposed of in this way.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/criminal-proceedings-scotland-2020-21/pages/19/

Whether this was sufficient for this incident is a matter of opinion but the police, courts, and prosecutors are obviously happy with minor assaults being dealt with in this way.

https://www.mygov.scot/police-fiscal-warning-penalty

Though it was poor service that the victim wasn't informed of the disposal. A matter of routine IMO.

This youtuber has regular problems on it.

Looking at the shadow, it appears that he's in primary. There is absolutely no need for him to be stuck out in the middle of the road like that other than to antagonise other road users in order to generate footage for his channel. It's going to get him killed. Is he the same shouty idiot that's been doing this for years or have they multiplied?

Not that it excuses the driver's behaviour of course. That was an absolutely stupid overtake, quick thinking on the part of the oncoming driver saved them all.

... and the second one, there's no way I'd have filtered down the inside of that car. The driver was clearly trying to deliberately block the cyclist from passing, he was over the centre line. From the driver's reaction ("every ****ing day") they have previous.

Again, doesn't excuse the driver's actions, but the cyclist is causing confrontation that could easily be avoided. Even on a bike, what are you going to do on a road that chocka, arrive 30 seconds earlier?

There are no winners there.

@tpbiker
That incident wasn’t in edinburgh was it?

Is he the same shouty idiot that’s been doing this for years or have they multiplied

He's the same shouty man from ITN news in 2011. Nevermind getting squashed, he's gonna give himself a heart attack or stroke carrying on like that.

He’s the same shouty man from ITN news in 2011.

He was on Sky News with that assault clip. Blamed it on Brexit and Covid.

IRC - you are quite right it was “pursued”, Ive no idea what guidelines they follow for deciding when it’s worth going to court and when a RPW is ok.  PF and court don’t review that on a case-by-case basis but will be glad for the reduced workload.

you are right not telling him the disposal is unhelpful (and depending when it was he probably had a right to know under the victims and witness legislation).  I can’t help thinking that a serial complainer will get less interest from the police than if he had never been in touch before?  Yes we would like every bit of shit driving prosecuted but ever since people started posting this stuff on YouTube (and it’s entire channels devoted to it) I’ve been uncomfortable with it.  I know my younger self would have done the same if YT and cameras were around.  I’d have convinced myself that cameras offer me protection, but probably unwittingly driven by likes on social media would actually have been putting myself in harms way (from vehicles or fists) in a way that “older” me wouldn’t.

Update:
Notice of prosecution has been served on the driver
My faith in the system has been restored 😅

@poly

n uncomfortable with it. I know my younger self would have done the same if YT and cameras were around. I’d have convinced myself that cameras offer me protection, but probably unwittingly driven by likes on social media would actually have been putting myself in harms way

As it happens I live about 4 miles away and regularly ride most of the same roads he rides. Admittedly not as often because I'm not a full time commuter. That said, I have never had any incident with a vehicle where I thought "if only I had a camera I could send it to the police".

Of course I wouldn't be on those roads in the rush hour. There is a tarmac surfaced towpath which eliminates 2/3rds of the miles of his commute with no distance penalty. A fast road rider will be slower on a towpath as it is shared. For a 9 mile commute I would say a time penaltly is well worth the relaxed ride on the towpath. I am quite happy riding in busy peak hour traffic when I have to. It can be quite enjoyable filtering past long queues. It is full on concentration though.

In fact when I used to have the choice of riding the road those clips were on for my commute or a 3 mile longer towpath route I used the road about half the time depending on time of day/traffic volume etc.

The worst incidents I had bike commuting were drunk peds coming onto the road to assault me. No reg number to pick up so not sure how helpful cam footage would have been in identifying them. In any case I saw them coming and had done my shoulder check so could give them a wide swerve.

Again, doesn’t excuse the driver’s actions, but the cyclist is causing confrontation that could easily be avoided

Yeah, he could just not ride a bike and leave it to experts like you! FFS this place never disappoints does it!

Don't be a knob. That's not what I meant, as well you probably know.

My only recorded close pass, Police Meh! . I just don't use that road anymore 🙁

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0bAyp3fNnwc

@redthunder - That's poor driving and inexcusable.

However, I would call that 'too close for comfort' or 'dangerously close' rather than a close pass. My close pass was such that I still don't know how the car mirror missed my bars, there must have been less than an inch (25mm in new money) between them.

End result was the same for both of us though, I don't ride that road any more.

Don’t be a knob. That’s not what I meant, as well you probably know.

I can only see the words that you write, shame they seem to make you appear like a daily mail reader just out of primary school.

If you think I'm a Daily Mail reader then I suggest you do more reading yourself. I've only been prolifically the opposite on here for, what, twelve years? And you were already here when I arrived.

That said, I have never had any incident with a vehicle where I thought “if only I had a camera I could send it to the police”.

Yeah. I've been commuting by bike as my main transport for most of the last 20 years, so perhaps 50,000 miles in total. I've had one incident where a dashcam would have proven that a moron drove into me intentionally, which was pretty bad but that's the only incident I can recall.

These people that have YouTube channels and new incident videos daily must be doing something different.