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We have a BTL flat to top up our pensions & have just been informed by our tenant, who has given notice, that they had a smart meter installed. Same supplier but they surcumbed to the invitations to have it done. Obviously new meter, and from what I understand, a smart meter that may be unique to the supplier. I would not have agreed to this as, at the moment, I believe they limit choice of supplier as there doesn't seem to be a common standard for smart meters. As there doesn't seem to be anything in the Tenancy Agreement or reason to withhold any part of the deposit do I just have to 'suck it up'?
What does the STF say?
smart meter that may be unique to the supplier
really, we've chanegd twice since we got one.
I think you have to suck it up.
smart meter that may be unique to the supplier
Some you need to get a new meter but not all.
Get annoyed, grumble then likely carry on as imagine it's really not all that bad.
Oh, maybe bum their dog.
We changed suppliers after having one, you just lose the smart element of it.
Depends what type it is - the newer ones are more universal to stop you being locked in with one supplier.
My electric company want me to fit a smart meter, but I'm not taking time off work to allow them to do it & have said they can fit it on a Saturday.
Whoever pays the bills can arrange installation, they don't need landlord's permission. AFAIK worst case is it just functions as a dumb meter if switching to a supplier that doesn't support it?
Talk about first world problems!
If they pay the bills it's their choice who they use and which supplier, they don't need you permission to try and save some cash.
As there doesn’t seem to be anything in the Tenancy Agreement or reason to withhold any part of the deposit do I just have to ‘suck it up’?
What does the STF say?
Aren't electricity meters owned by the company rather than the owner of the house? Personally I'd say you have to suck it up and to try to with hold part of the deposit would be a shitty thing to do. Even if the meter stops working as a "Smart Meter" for a different supplier it will still work as a "Dumb Meter" just like the one that got replaced so you're not actually any worse off. To be honest you come across a bit like landlords that I had who were annoyed when I transferred the telephone number to a new property. The fact that the number was assigned by BT to me as part of a contract didn't seem to interest them much.
I'd say sell the flat.
As Drac says it’s the tenants choice so it’s not that you suck it up it’s more that it is none of your business.
I would've thought any changes to electricity/gas/facilities stuff would have to be agreed by the owner of the property, surely!
But hey, I ain'ta landlord and STW consensus seems to be that you're a weirdo for even raising the issue, so whaddoIknow.
You should definitely murder them.
Display their corpses as a grisly warning to the next tenants.
I'd be more worried about the quality of the meter installation.
There's been a few instances of them causing problems.
Have they changed the type of electrons that drive it, will old ones not fit through the hole?
Don't be a knob, it will still work as a dumb meter and you can read it the old fashioned way.
"Investment Landlords" need to get over them selves and stop being cockwombles.
If you have taken offence to this then it applies to you!
We have a BTL flat to top up our pensions & have just been informed by our tenant, who has given notice, that they had a smart meter installed. Same supplier but they surcumbed to the invitations to have it done. Obviously new meter, and from what I understand, a smart meter that may be unique to the supplier.
My experience of a smart meter is that it really doesn't make any difference to anything much at all. If you / your tenant stay with the same supplier it simplifies billing and potentially helps to save money. If you swap to a non-compatible supplier, it just stops working as a smart meter. It doesn't lock you into using a particular supplier, it just means you no longer have a functioning smart meter.
In effect, it makes no difference to your choice of supplier. The only caveat is that if you want to be able to use the smart meter, you need a compatible supplier, but otherwise you can use whoever you want, you just won't have a smart meter.
We had a smart meter fitted by one supplier, changed suppliers, the smart meter no longer works as a smart meter, but we still get electricity just fine, we just have to take our own meter readings and upload them manually.
maybe bum their dog.
I read that as burn their dog and felt it was a bit extreme but I've zoomed in a bit now so carry on.
I'd be pleased I had tenants who seem to care about the building they were living in and tried to sort things out without constantly involving the landlord.
Dogbone (not a landlord).
Burn the flat, and also bum their dog, as suggested.
Bum their gerbil as well just to be sure and then nick their biscuits.
Definitely torch the flat with all their possessions in. After you’ve held them hostage for a 24 hour ‘Pulp Fiction’ style reign of terror to teach them the error of their ways.
We can take the dog bumming as read, obvs
Any chance you could bum TJ as well?.
then nick their biscuits.
This is getting out of hand.
As above, it's done now. Personally I wouldn't be too upset about this particular thing, but I would be a bit peeved that they'd messed with building/infrastructure stuff without thinking to check with you first. They're moving out though, so not much to be gained by making a fuss about it. Don't think you've got any grounds to withhold deposit - what is your actual loss?
At the very most, you could use it in discussions as something you're upset about, in the hope that they'll understand where you're coming from and be less combative about any other damages you're claiming deposit for. But if they really don't get why you might be upset or they don't care if you're upset or there's no other damage to discuss, then just forget about it.
Any chance you could bum TJ as well?
I read that as burn TJ and felt it was a bit extreme but I’ve zoomed in a bit now and am disappointed.
Have they changed the type of electrons that drive it, will old ones not fit through the hole?
Yes, they had to, so that electrons created purely by wind and solar can be distinguished from those generated by fossil and nukes, so that they only allow eco friendly electrons through for those people that pay for eco friendly power. Otherwise they'd have had to build a totally new national grid for them 😉
Folk who own property they don’t live in deserve all they get.
Oi!
Nobeer he might not be my type
I read that as burn TJ
Surely, we should hang the blessed TJ.
As there doesn’t seem to be anything in the Tenancy Agreement or reason to withhold any part of the deposit do I just have to ‘suck it up’?
What does the STF say?
I'm going to say you're being unreasonable. No damage has been done. Smart meter will work with any supplier (either as dumb meter or smart meter). You sound a like a fanny of a landlord I had when I was young and renting. Wanting total control over everything but also to be paid for the privilege.
but I would be a bit peeved that they’d messed with building/infrastructure stuff without thinking to check with you first.
But as mentioned they don’t have to check with the landlord it’s up to them as the bill payer (Kilo, landlord - not bumming or burning any dogs, puffins, etc)
Folk who own property they don’t live in deserve all they get.
Cool I get a monthly rent 🙂
Miserable moaning landlord in bemoaning tenants shokka.
The meter isn’t yours, it’s the energy suppliers.
Make sure you put the rent up on the next tenants, just because your so pissed off and need to take it out on people who rent.
Thatll calm you down princess.
🤷♂️🤣👎
As others have said, they don’t need your permission. Last flat that I rented was given a smart meter by the electricity company while I was there, didn’t cross my mind to tell the landlord.
If you don’t want this to happen, pay the electricity bill yourself.
U OK HON? XX
Footnote: you cannot withhold the deposit for this. The deposit is in a DPS scheme, right?
Do they still catch fire, these smart meters?? That would be my concern.
(My local shop almost burned down after they had one fitted: True fact)
(that's burned, not bummed)
Hand clap for perchypanther, although obviously Morrissey is now evil.
Wee in their shoes?
Looks like it's perfectly legal for them to do this but I don't blame you for being narked.
Most people change suppliers once a year so if the tennants want smart metres each time that's potentially a new box a year until meters get standardized. Seems reasonable to me that a landlord would be narked about having his walls drilled once a year by an unknown contractor, supervised by someone who doesn't care about the long term well being of the property.
As a tennant I think I'd inform the landlord and see if they wanted some kind of backing board put in to avoid drilling into the wall or just wanted to be be onsite to supervise.
Hurrah tenants who have paid the bills and been pro-active. Sorry but don’t come across all hissy as the tenants probably see themselves as people you your pension top up as a home. Everyone hates landlords and I accept that being one.
Many thanks for all your responses - particularly the humerous ones. Trust STF! I did express my dissatisfaction - and I really felt that was all I could do - but was more concerned about the cowboy stories you hear about the installations & the possibility of limiting suppliers. I'll just go and ride my bike now.......
Wee in their shoes?
If the meter is in the shoe cupboard that could be a bit dangerous.
Tough tittie, it's up to the tenant as they are paying for the energy.
Given the nature of the UK housing market and the bias towards BTL investors making £££ I have little sympathy generally.
I believe they limit choice of supplier as there doesn’t seem to be a common standard for smart meters
Incorrect - it will likely become "dumb" if switched but you then just submit readings, old-school, so you have lost only the IHD, which you didn't know you had anyway.
ALL PROPERTY IS THEFT! LANDLORD BOURGEOIS SCUM!
I would not have agreed to this as, at the moment, I believe they limit choice of supplier as there doesn’t seem to be a common standard for smart meters
Your belief is incorrect.
There are basically two forms of smart meter, SMETS1 and (surprise!) SMETS2.
The older SMETS1 are the ones tied to the provider. If you subsequently change providers, nothing happens other than the 'smart' bit will probably stop working. They don't limit anything.
The newer SMETS2 meters use a SIM card and are standardised across providers, so you can change provider and keep the smarts.
Most people change suppliers once a year so if the tennants want smart metres each time that’s potentially a new box a year until meters get standardized.
Energy UK's most recent round-up says:
'During quarter 1 of 2019, 4.9 percent of the total customer base in the Electricity market switched. For gas, over the same time period 4.8 per cent of customers switched'
So extrapolating from that, it seems unlikely that 'most people change suppliers once a year'.
Also, they've been begun rolling out second generation smart meters which are transferrable between suppliers, so the dystopian fantasy of 'most people' swapping a smart meter once a year is fading fast. It's even possible, though unlikely, that the OPs tenant actually had a second gen meter fitted. Worth checking anyway even though only around 500,000 have apparently been installed, any which have been fitted after 15 March 2019 should be second generation, SMETS2 meters. Or something like that. Dependent on infrastructure...
INtersting BWD, I'm sure I'd read different stats on switching recently. Also I didn't know that SMETS2 were around already.
INtersting BWD, I’m sure I’d read different stats on switching recently. Also I didn’t know that SMETS2 were around already.
I may have got it wrong, but this is the gov.uk source (below). The trend does seem to be towards more frequent switching, but there are a fair few news stories saying that even though numbers are rising, a significant proportion of energy customers are still on basic, expensive tariffs because of inertia.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/quarterly-domestic-energy-switching-statistics
a significant proportion of energy customers are still on basic, expensive tariffs because of inertia.
This is absolutely the case, albeit the downsides are lessened by the price cap. If I remember I'll search out the stats I'm thinking of...here we go its a CAB/Ofgem report. SAmpled 2,900 customers (quite mixed) and found 18% have in the last year.
Possibly not statistically accurate/significant enough to pro-rate to the entire population.
I didn’t know that SMETS2 were around already.
Scottish Power have been hounding me to get a smart meter for months and I've been roundly ignoring them. But I got an email from them a couple of weeks back going "hey, we've got the new meters now!" so they are being rolled out now it would seem, presumably entirely dependent on your provider.
They probably did it to try and save money as they'd already had to sell their children into prostitution to pay their slum landlord.
Has anyone bummed TJ yet? and did you wear lid?.
Folk who own property they don’t live in deserve all they get
Not sure if you are serious here..but I kinda agree. No sympathy for btl land lords whatsoever. If you are prepared to exploit the housing market and keep other folks off the property ladder then the pay off is folk may not treat your property in the fashion you would like.
Do you have to keep it?
Had mine removed when I bought a house.
You need to take a chill pill.
At least they’re paying, haven’t destroyed your flat or have squatters.
If you are prepared to exploit the housing market and keep other folks off the property ladder
Or conversely: provide rentable housing for people that either cannot afford a mortgage or don't want to be tied to one.
Or conversely: provide rentable housing for people that either cannot afford a mortgage or don’t want to be tied to one.
It's a vicious circle isn't it. Individual landlords might be perfectly nice people and it is a needed service, but every well off person buying property for extra income is making it harder for poorer people to buy property to live in.
Not something that will ever be fixed by berating forum members, as fun as that is.
‘During quarter 1 of 2019, 4.9 percent of the total customer base in the Electricity market switched. For gas, over the same time period 4.8 per cent of customers switched’
This is absolutely the case, albeit the downsides are lessened by the price cap. If I remember I’ll search out the stats I’m thinking of…here we go its a CAB/Ofgem report. SAmpled 2,900 customers (quite mixed) and found 18% have in the last year.
Possibly not statistically accurate/significant enough to pro-rate to the entire population.
Those look consistent so I was deffo wrong. Most people don't. Crazy.
making it harder for poorer people to buy property to live in.
It is a vicious circle, but the idea that everyone that rents is "poor" is a bit outdated I think.
I was 32 before I bought my first house. Prior to that I rented. It let me stay in much nicer accommodation than I could afford to pay a monthly mortgage for (e.g. a nice 3 bed flat in Bruntsfield, Edinburgh with a garage) and six month terms meant we were free to easily move around the country following our careers.
It is a vicious circle, but the idea that everyone that rents is “poor” is a bit outdated I think.
I think it’s more a case of poor people have no other option. It is worse nowadays as the rental market is a different beast to what it used to be. I could only ever afford to rent shit holes. My mortgage for a nice house is about £200 less than renting something similar. Kinda the opposite of what you described.
And the vicious circle continues to like, spin, man
It’s a vicious circle isn’t it. Individual landlords might be perfectly nice people and it is a needed service, but every well off person buying property for extra income is making it harder for poorer people to buy property to live in.
...don't forget people who buy shares - they're making it harder for poor people to buy businesses. Bloody investors. They should follow the virtuous route of spending their cash on coke and hookers rather than investing in property and businesses. After all the tax payer picks up the slack.
What about your local LBS? Shouldn't they give up their business so a poor person can run a business on the same site? Every LBS is making it harder for poorer people to run a shop of their own.
let us know how you got on with the dog plz op.
I own a flat which I used to live in, but now rent it out to a chap with a bearded dragon (which I think is a lizard).
I live in a rented house whilst renting out my flat
Is that ok? Do the two cancel each other out - or should I go and self flagellate? Do I have to bum the lizard at all?
It is a vicious circle, but the idea that everyone that rents is “poor” is a bit outdated I think.
Didn't say that. Renting is a necessary and useful part of the housing market but more and more people are being locked into it as their only option - which makes it more appealing to buy to let for those who can.
don’t forget people who buy shares – they’re making it harder for poor people to buy businesses. Bloody investors. They should follow the virtuous route of spending their cash on coke and hookers rather than investing in property and businesses. After all the tax payer picks up the slack
I think this is a straw man but I'm not attacking landlords so much as advocating for widespread communist revolution.
The UK housing market is totally distorted and concentrates money in the hands of those who have it. From sold off council houses now being let at twice council rates to unaffordable housing stock in many cities.
BTL is a disgraceful way to run a countries housing stock and leads to many issues
Before the accusations of hypocrisy its a long story how we ended up with an extra flat but it was not bought to let. It was bought to live in. We cannot sell because of ongoing litigation.
We do try our best to be good landlords remembering that its our flat but someone else home
I've a smart meter, and I rent, I didn't think twice about asking my landlord, as 1. It's non of his business and 2 the meter it's attached to doesn't belong to him.
I just read TJ's post and agreed with it...do I have to bum him because quite frankly I'd rather not or burn his lizard ( the preferred option but still not ideal)?
I just read TJ’s post and agreed with it…do I have to bum him because quite frankly I’d rather not or burn his lizard ( the preferred option but still not ideal)?
What kind of lizard? Is it big enough to bum?
Hangf on a mo - its not my lizard. I have never even met it. These two threads about rentals are getting very weird!
David Icke has assured me that TJ actually is a lizard, so I’m definitely not bumming him
Or his Guinea pig
the meter it’s attached to doesn’t belong to him.
The new meter is attached to the old meter?
outofbreath
Member
…don’t forget people who buy shares – they’re making it harder for poor people to buy businesses. Bloody investors. They should follow the virtuous route of spending their cash on coke and hookers rather than investing in property and businesses. After all the tax payer picks up the slack.
Isn't that the exact opposite of how shares work? They allow business people with no money to go to rich people with no business ideas* and ask for money in order to grow their business?
Whereas in almost all cases the mortgage on a property is quite a lot less than the rent. Which in a perfect market is the cost of the convenience of being able to live somewhere with no ties. In the distorted market we do have it ties up supply. Most tenants would probably be quite happy paying ~1/3 less and actually acquiring equity rather than paying 50% more and having nothing spare to save for a deposit.
*not necessarily true, but the gist of shares is you make less money than if you could have hypothetically done the business yourself but instead you buy it and have someone else run it for you, thus allowing you to do things like own shares in several business and spread the risk rather than trying to be the director of a bank and oil company and an electronics retailer personally.
If the tenant pays the bills they are perfectly within their rights to have a smart meter installed, but its poor form not to have advised the landlord of this. I also think it would be poor form to withhold any deposit - as it's hard to see any loss being suffered as a result, unless there was damage caused by the installation itself, in which case crack on...
It’s fates way of telling you that buy to let is a disgusting capitalist racket that prevents the less well off and first time buyers getting on the housing ladder. One for the little guy..
I remember a landlord that didn't like showers, among other things. OP comes across as rather similar.
It staggers me that people would think they have redress for something that has zero effect on them, financial or otherwise, and has not been set out in a contract with the other party.
Even if it did have a financial impact, that's just a consequence of where you've decided to put your money.
The older SMETS1 are the ones tied to the provider. If you subsequently change providers, nothing happens other than the ‘smart’ bit will probably stop working. They don’t limit anything.
A lot of the SMETS1 meters can have the firmware updated by the original installer which then enables them to be enrolled with the centralised DCC system just like a SMETS2 meter and be switched between suppliers.
Some suppliers are a lot closer to delivering this than others, but it is something the industry is working on.
ALL PROPERTY IS THEFT!
This is why I stopped drinking leaf tea.
TDS should laugh at any deduction claims for a tenant getting a smart meter installed.
And finally the letting agent fees "money for old rope" swizz has been dead since 1st June. \o/
Tough crowd!
I don't think the OP deserves the kicking (and bumming) you lot want to give out.
I had to rent when relocating for work and I would asked before I added a smart meter or changed any of the fabric of the building. Seems reasonable to me.
Its not just poor form attempting to withhold deposit - it would be illegal.