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They've been turning my head a LOT recently and given that production is ceasing (in the UK) later this year I'll be sad to see them go.
I say see them go, but I know they'll be around for decades to come 'cos they seem indestructible.
So, aside from the woeful fuel efficiency and the fact they seem expensive for what they are - even used (and I know this flips as strong residual value), give me good reason to go right off them.
Have you driven one? They're a bit love/hatey!
Are you a farmer ? Do you spend a lot of time in fields ? Forests ? Deserts ?
I was talking about the end of the defender with my dad (Farmer up here in Northumberland) it went along the lines of
Him - Shame they are stopping making them
Me - Would you buy one?
Him - No Way!
For most things there are modern, cheaper, more reliable, efficient and practical alternatives. Of course if you want a lifestyle statement go for it 😉
They have the turning circle of a supertanker towing a caravan
but I know they'll be around for decades to come 'cos they seem indestructible.
spending lots of time, money and effort fixing them does not equal indestructible....
Yeah, a supertanker's turning circle I could live with, but with an added caravan, well, that would be too much.
I don't think its a coincidence that the people who buy them tend to be people who like to work on stuff, and are happiest with a spanner or a welder in their hand
theyre not very big inside. The driving position is cramped. The second row seats are uncomfortable for anyone over 4'6". (deadlydarcy finds them incredibly comfortable obviously)
It's an agricultural vehicle with some upholstery, and drives like it too 🙂
The new ones are made with some rubbish belgian steel that rusts as soon as it sees salty water. Theyre very much not indestructible, the chassis often need welding repairs to maintain them if they are not galvanised (and nothing leaves the factory galvanised BTW)
But they're bloody good fun to own. The kids love them. You look forward to the crappiest weather possible so you can show off. I wouldnt be without mine now.
Because I'll be jealous? I've always fancied one, from the days when I used to trundle round in an ex-RAF lightweight series III. Go for a 110 though to give you some decent space inside as that's about all the practicality you'll get from a Defender 🙂
Think spinal compression and a 4wd transit van
Hope you like getting dirty.
They have the turning circle of a supertanker towing a caravan
Could be worse - could be an Mitsubishi L200!
jamesfts - Member
They have the turning circle of a supertanker towing a caravan
Could be worse - could be an Mitsubishi L200!
At least there is less chance of the L200 breaking down half way through the 30 point turn 🙂
Only 30?
I've taken to just reversing ours home from work at the end of the day 😉
A 90 pickup is a very beautiful thing but thankfully that itch is well and truly scratched.
Oh yeah...that's it...right there, yeah
Keep 'em coming.
No. Not driven one - yet. Mrs T23 suggests arranging a test drive just to answer that love/hate question. I'm scared I might like it!
I spend no time at all in the extreme environments mentioned above, but the appeal comes more from its iconic look than the need for its abilities. Our annual mileage is very low - say 5K tops - so maybe the fuel efficiency isn't such a huge concern.
Maybe I've watched too much of [i]The Walking Dead[/i] and I'm mentally preparing for some kind of 'end of days' scenario where I can spot-weld some cuts of Heras fencing over the windows and plough through herds of zombie types to safety...
mileage is very low - say 5K tops
V8.
I spend no time at all in the extreme environments mentioned above, but the appeal comes more from its iconic look than the need for its abilities. Our annual mileage is very low - say 5K tops - so maybe the fuel efficiency isn't such a huge concern.
Ah the sort of owner I last saw cruising round central London in one, they really did convey that they had a certain look (though some people might not think it's a good on)
We run a 90 on the Farm, been trouble free for about a week now. Ok it's S/H, lives life on the Farm, carries all sorts of shite in it and yet we choose to use the Ford Ranger pickup if we're pushed to go anywhere further than ohhhh, 30 miles.
Although you do tend to have fond memories and clouded judgment, the only way I'd ever have another is if it's the last of the new series ones without the Air Con but all the other mods...
The Air Con melts the seals and the front radiators been hacked to bits to accommodate it.. Looks nice from a distance though, especially in dark Grey or Black.
Wilko...not fair. Why did you do that?
Actually, thanks for doing that. When I see a Defender on sale for £84K, I see sense, as it were.
From the farmers I insure I'm always amazed how often one has had a Defender pinched.
Still wouldn't stop me getting one but I'd want to keep it out of sight ie garage/barn or out of view from the road.
My one good reason not to buy one is have you seen figures of how many are being nicked at the moment all over the UK......appear to have taken over from BMWs!
I'm on my third. First was a 90 winch challenge / greenlaner which I re-chassised. Second was a TD5 110 which I rebuilt on a galv chassis. Third is a Tdci also rebuilt on a new chassis. Spot a common theme?
They are great fun to drive and own, but not without thier downsides.
As standard, they are noisy, not very fast, agricultural to drive and can be tempramental, corrode, will leak water in and oil out and the heater is crap unless you buy a Puma. They are a money pit as well - who buys a Defender and doesn't want to bolt some gucci kit onto it?
On the plus side, you'll never lose money on a Defender if you look after it - they are one of the few vehicles that won't really depreciate much.
Don't view a 90 as anything other than a two seater - you CAN carry more people, but won't be able to carry anything else.
A TD5 Discovery is a much more sensible vehicle for daily drive, but just don't have that Defender factor. In short, you've got to HAVE to own one....
They're one of the easiest vehicles in the world to nick and are dead easy to sell, so I'm told. I used to remove the rotor arm out of my series III lightweight whenever I parked it anywhere other than my garage. Not that anyone would have wanted to steal it mind
So, for clarification then, is the reason there are so many used ones available for purchase because they are (arguably) built to last, or because original owners regret their decision and want shot of them?
Or, just having read the immediate posts above, is it 'cos they've been nicked and are being fenced?
MikeWsmith - I live in Edinburgh, and they don't seem [i]so[/i] out of place here as they might in central London. Perhaps because we're not far from hills and farmland, or maybe the more landed gentry/weekend home on country estate types are more visible due to smaller population.
Anyway, so far so impressed. Thanks. Keep talking.
We have an immobiliser on ours, we've fitted a self destruct button in the form of an ignition key terminal on it..
Or...
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Get a Fourtrak. The best four x four x further. Proper Tonka toy that can tow with massive grunt and is bullet proof. (albeit cheap when it does go wrong)
LR = the best faux x faux by far 😆
My mechanics hates LR's with a passion. I had to drive a 110 long wheel base when I did some Ranger work on the SDW. Horrid things. the driving position is so squashed if you are of a normal height. On the road above 50 mph they are rather wretched as well. Look pretty but get use to being under it with a spanner and a hammer in hand.
^^ Them Mercs are quite "ace" 😀
[i]Yeah, a supertanker's turning circle I could live with, but with an added caravan, well, that would be too much.
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Well, exactly
Because Land Rover also make the Discovery
Just the right level of bling 8)
Genuine lol at get a 4 trak...... The one vehicle of this world rhat rusted quicker than a montego.
Defenders
They are understandably aukward , but also great fun to drive in. Road trips happen at a different pace ..... But never yet stationary through mechanicals......avoid late models with the big dash - takes up too much room.
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/i-am-man-defender-provider-mechanic
This thread probably worth a thousand words.
Get an ex military 110 wolf. Great fun "driving sensibly" with the soft top off and the rear end is robust. Well more robust than the front end of a civvie one.
Driven enough army land rovers in my time to come to the conclusion that unless its for off road stuff only they`re shi te, slow, uncomfortable and horrible to drive.
Thats my take on it anyway 😆
For the money a cheap LR will cost you'll get a cracking Fourtrak.
They rot but nothing a bit of welding and underseal doesn't sort.
Cheap to keep going as well.
Just my 2p.
Drove one when I lived in Edinburgh
110 td5 csw
Yes they can break down, no more so than any other car I've owned but they do tend to be cheap to fix
Corrosion problem with chassis but also where aluminium meets steel like door frames
If I was getting another I'd make sure the chassis, bulkhead and doors were well waxoyled
There were only the two of us when I owned it, not sure how we would get on as a family of five. I borrowed a double cab 110 the other week and the three kids seats were a tight squeeze
I'd also forgotten how agricultural they are having been driving a discovery 3 for the last six years
Try and get a test drive for a long weekend before committing
I hate mine mine it's cost daft money to keep it working yet I keep finding reasons for not selling it.
The current one is a td5 but next I think another series 2 or 3
Ours does at best 5k a year and modern ones rot far worse than older ones
Go drive one
For some of us that first drive will ruin your life forever
As for tdci there are a few with gearbox issues so a dealer and some warranty is best
I spent a few hours in a new one today. They do look great in a rufty tufty sort of way.
The trouble is, it was just comically rubbish.
It made me think of the sort of thing Yugo would be building today if they had survived.
This one was almost new but it feels like it's already gone round the clock once. Squashed, stupid doorhandles, lurchy, interior steams up instantly, gutters pour water all over you when you open the door, etc, etc.
But yet, the attraction to own one even for a short while remains inexplicably strong.
We owned an ex-MOD 90 for seven years. During those years servicing, repairs and upgrades cost us exactly £7000 on top so it was a labour of love and a hobby, not a sensible vehicle. Land Rovers are high-speed tractors so they are noisy, drafty, smelly, thirsty and they rust for fun. The 90 has an excellent turning circle if you get a farmer's model with the smaller 205 wheels. Most of all they are brilliant fun and when you drive one you become curiously invisible because other drivers don't view you as a threat to their road space.
We sold ours to a bloke who had zero mechanical sympathy and told us he just wanted something to "run into the ground".
*sniff*
"when you drive one you become curiously invisible because other drivers don't view you as a threat to their road space."
Interesting i found the polar opposite, where they would constantly try and barge me out the way in my little white van - they would stop and let the 90 in so not to get a girder in the face 🙂
They are crap to live with in the winter, apart from when it snows and they come into their own.
I've had 3, two 90's and a 110. They all leaked rainwater, the "heater" is next to useless. They were all uncomfortable after 30 mins of travel, and the "faster" you go the worse it gets. Very noisy inside which is tough on long journeys.
I have a Yeti 4x4 now, still miss the 110 all said though.
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My heater works just fine , but that makes me worry the head has cracked
Winter is fine just need a little mod to keep the side windows demisted.
And some silicone to stop the doors sticking shut
as someone who has only had 4x4 for last 20 years I may be a bit biased
but here is some rubbish written on this thread
fourtraks have shot up in price, you want something good and Jap get a trooper, better than fourtraks, and still cheap to buy
I have had cherokee's. ranger, troopers, l200, hilux, series landrovers, etc etc
always wanted a defender
so bought a new one 15 years ago
with fairly good and resonable expectations of what i was buying, they are slow ish, bad turning circle (but so are most large 4x4's) cramped inside, not and roomy or comfortable as a 20 year old trooper for instance
but they are ace, go any where do anything, I spent 3 hours out on boxing day pulling people out ditches and up hills in the snow ( I think all 4x4 owners should give something back)
ive done 17000 miles, no probs, heater works great in the puma ones, it'll melt yer foot ! quick clear windscreeen, heated seats, its built for winter
Im thinking of getting a new one this summer if i can still get one. I soundproofed mine, and fitted a tracker (a must)
go and drive a new one, realise its like a tractor crossed with a car !
I went for the 110 utility (VAT reclaimable if registered) seats five and van at the back, no one else makes this configuration (excluding double cabs pick ups which are awful for loading / unloading
also - I have never bought a new vehicle, only reason i did with the defender is it has such high second hand values
I had a series 2A, well I think it was, I had it many many years ago. It was a 2 1/4 petrol and had been fiddled with, it had fairey overdrive, safari roof, free wheeling hubs and a range rover rear diff.
It also drank fuel, leaked and the passenger door had a tendency to open itself on roundabouts.
I had some fun with it but also a few ahem issues, like the parked car I passed on my side of the road and the bloke coming the other way insisted in not deviating from his course and giving me a bit of room. His brand new Rover looked like it had been attacked with a giant can opener....oops.
Thanks, fellas. That's me convinced now...I think.
If for no other reasons than the experience and to scratch an itch, I may try hiring one for a weekend and negotiating the country roads of east Lothian and the car parks of the local retail parks.
An informed opinion will be shared here shortly thereafter.
ach go do an off road driving day at pitlochry 😀
If you have a long or fair commute and this would be your commuter don't do it.
If however its a scratch you want to itch- they are great at holding their value aren't they? More so now as they'll be collectable/etc/sort after more so as their numbers dip/people still want to get into one.
To drive- definitely marmite. A weird driving position, feel like your sat on a few mattresses and it leans wierdly as you corner. So if its a mixed commute you could easily become tired of it when you are already tired..
I grew up with them in the countryside, excellent at getting you into trouble and up to your doors in mud.
Drove a brand new one with 50 miles on the clock once and the was a rusty streak on the bulkhead where the water was leaking in. 😆
My mate has a 52 plate, the body cappings have fallen off and all 3 doors are scrap, all the Land Rover approved accessories have galvanically rotted the body.
I want one more than anything. 😯
It defies explanation.
It's like anything in life if you really want one and can afford one, get one, you'll only regret it if you don't.
If you don't get on with it, it can always be sold, I wouldn't worry about it and just buy one.
truly awful machines
The landy wot STW built:
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😈
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I worked for a company in deepest Derbyshire for a while which boasted a couple of LRs in the workforce and a Panda 4x4. Having experienced the Panda winch its way up a snow covered Winnats Pass, stop part way up next to a passer by (me) for a chat, then set off again displaying no signs of difficulty, I've fancied one of those ever since. The best 4x4 by far.
She's a beauty stoner.
I grew up with them in the countryside, excellent at getting you into trouble and up to your doors in mud.
Drove a brand new one with 50 miles on the clock once and the was a rusty streak on the bulkhead where the water was leaking in.
My mate has a 52 plate, the body cappings have fallen off and all 3 doors are scrap, all the Land Rover approved accessories have galvanically rotted the body.
I want one more than anything
I heard someone once say why are there so many still on the roads. The reason is its a vehicle people feel a passion for/a project/a personal folly. Hence why people go to the trouble of replacing Chassis, etc etc etc etc etc on an ongoing basis.
Its not because they are high quality 😀
I've been running an L reg Defender for the past 16 years (hence the user name). Most of the salient points have been covered above but to summarise
- Not remotely comfortable, only 1 chromosome removed from a tractor
- A giant Meccano set, every single part is easily available. You'll need a basic toolkit (angle grinder, MIG welder, lump hammer)
- Can do just about anything in the right hands
- Tend to slowly fall to bits, but you just bolt/weld new bits on
- The new ones are rubbish
- People keep out of your way when your front bumper is an iron girder
- Not a sensible vehicle unless you're a sheep farmer. But who wants sensible?
This might not help either.
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With MOD suspension you get less body roll but conversely, a little less axle articulation. That doesn't stop a 90 being absolutely mid-blowing on steep rough terrain such as used to exist in Lee Quarry before it got sanitised.... [i]*sniff*[/i]
They are great fun and we used to have some smashing family days driving the green lanes in the South Lakes:
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If you fancy this kind of stuff you can hire an ex-MOD soft-top 90 from Kankku in Windermere, equipped with satnav programmed with a green lane Lakes "safari".
http://www.kankku.co.uk/safari.html
I've always liked them, and would love a 110 county, or utility as said above. I was > < this close to buying one recently but the insurance (due to a big claim 2013) put me off. I don't do many miles- ca.7k a year but 4/AWD is useful for certain times of that year. In the end I bought a Legacy estate with Hi/Lo box. However it was a compromise vehicle and as much as I really like the Legacy, I still would like a LR at some point.
Remember that Defenders are 'gateway' vehicles and can easily lead on to the hard stuff.
35" wheels, 2" uplift, snorkel, winch, more chequer plate than a battleship.
When you find yourself applying a 'One life, live it' sticker, it's time to kill yourself 😆
You have to drive around with the window down unless you have impossibly small arms.
"You have to drive around with the window down unless you have impossibly small arms."
a myth - unless you have bought a new defender with its extra wide side impact doors.
its "one wife livid" isnt it rusty 90 ?
and stick yer 35 inch tires - 7.50 x 16 is where its at.
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mine currently - hoping to get a roof on it this weekend. - its an 1987 90 originally a 19j turbo diesel van - nowsporting a 200tdi and a truck cab/pick up. ground up rebuild after many years of neglect and "minimal maintainance" ....23 years of it to be exact.
Fortunately Mrs Rusty is a Landy fan and is out in the forest in it at this very momentits "one wife livid" isnt it rusty 90 ?
Kuhmo KL71 265/75 here, as big as it will go without uplift or spacers (see what you're getting into OP?)stick yer 35 inch tires - 7.50 x 16 is where its at.
Tell me why I SHOULDN'T buy a Land Rover Defender
buy a Toyota Land Cruiser or a Jimny 😀
currently on farmer spec 205 x 16s.
ive got dispensation at the moment because the picture below is the instruction manual we are working too.
Ms T-R and the 90 have prior history ....mainly involving the transfer box. she hates driving it but likes going away in it.
odly enough - my mate keeps saying buy a jimny.... strange that his 04 plate jimny just failed on terminal chassis and body rot - to the point where he doesnt think he can plate it up ....and hes a mechanic to trade.
Ah, yes, we got married in our farmer's 90 with 205s and the awful 2.25 petrol engine. It would turn almost as well as a London taxi but it only did 16 mpg and it was a rust-bucket.
a friend of a friend turned up at the VIP area of some shooting event at scone palace in his 2a.
upon getting out his car he commented to one of the others near by that his car looked at bit out of place in the sea of prestige motors.
the other lad replied - it was good enough for the queen its good enough for here.
why did a 90 have a 2.25 petrol in it . had someone downgraded it over the years ?
ok i stand corrected - 83-85 the 2.25 petrol was an option. That must have been horrific.
I drive 2 for work (different jobs). First is a a tarted up 1989 90 with a retrofitted Mitsubishi engine and stupid big wheels with A/Ts fitted, the other a 2002 crewcab 130 with a big tank of water in the back.
The first one looks great but is truly horrible to drive. Noisy, smelly, horrible clutch action and wallowy as a marshmallow hippo, it's like driving a canal boat and almost as damp inside.
Weirdly the 130 I actually really enjoy driving. It's on standard wheels which I guess helps.
I still want one of my own despite all the horror stories. I'd go for a farmer spec utility crew cab.
We have one at work and I can't think of one single reason to buy one over virtually any other vehicle if, as stated, you will not be using it as a work horse. I can't think of a vehicle I've driven that is worse to drive.
"I can't think of a vehicle I've driven that is worse to drive."
africa spec hilux.
cart springs make me sea sick with constant bobbing 😀
That was the LR Ninety, not the Defender 90. Like a series 3 but with modern innovations like coil springs and wind-up windows.ok i stand corrected - 83-85 the 2.25 petrol was an option
mines a ninety - windy windows didnt come till 87 - was slideys till then - im downgrading to slideys as the doorcars/windows take up too much room in cab 😀
i just wasnt aware they put the crap 2.25 petrol in. at least the 2.25 diesel was bombproof.
If you want the full, hard core land rover experience - rust, no performance, wayward steering, crippling fuel economy, drafty, damp, noisy downright dangerous above 40mph, you NEED a 101. Preferably one with someone else's DIY LPG conversion that basically just sprays neat gas into the intake manifold irrespective of whether there is demand for it, or for that matter irrespective of whether the engine's running. I'm particularly fond of the hacked about ambulance body that gives it the look of a vampire but without all the annoying militeria-fanboi magnetism. I also like the way my mate (it's his) upholds the just dragged from a swamp / run around Salisbury plain / trek across Goose Green appearance.
Stupendously good fun, all the same.
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The 2.25 petrol was much loved by the military as it would run on just about anything from jet fuel to squaddie piss and could survive being adjusted with a hammer.
Favourite thing in the world, good at everything, best thing I ever bought, anything else is rubbish.