[Closed] Tell me about sMArT MeteRS

Is your meter really under your boiler? That's an unusual place to put one. If your setting your boiler timings on something it's not your meter.

Smart meters are a con, at least for consumers. They'll let the energy companies get rid of staff who read meters, the savings from which they'll not be passing on to you. And they'll pave the way for demand pricing on energy, which will hit families and the less well off hardest.

Without demand pricing and other stuff like smart consumers, we need to invest heavily to increase generation and distribution capacity. The cost of which would fall to? Oh yes.

we need to invest heavily to increase generation and distribution capacity

No, we need to reduce demand.

No, we need to reduce demand.

True, but smart meters can help by making it more transparent around the costs of energy use.

Which is part of demand pricing

I'm lucky enough to have an energy company now that doesn't fit smart meters so I never get pestered.

You'll no longer have to submit meter readings.

You get a little screen showing your usage.

People will tell you they allow aliens to read your brain or something.

I had one for a bit until we changed supplier.

I didn't find it smart enough to be useful.
Consumption trickles along until you switch the oven or microwave on, then it goes through the roof, but none of this really helps you reduce energy levels.

I think some fancier ones will categorise energy levels by appliance etc which may well be a more useful way of doing things

I’m lucky enough to have an energy company now that doesn’t fit smart meters so I never get pestered.

How's that work when I thought the government has mandated that they have to?

People will tell you they allow aliens to read your brain or something.

Well remotely has got to be preferable to the old fashioned anal probe method surely?

smart meters can help by making it more transparent around the costs of energy use

There are ways of doing that much more cheaply.

Well remotely has got to be preferable to the old fashioned anal probe method surely?

I'm a traditionalist...

You get a little screen showing your usag

Is your meter really under your boiler? That’s an unusual place to put one. If your setting your boiler timings on something it’s not your meter.

Ah, there we are - so I was confusing this with a Nest type thing wasn't I! Glad I posted now. I knew it was me that was stupid, not my meter.
Yeah, so I wouldn't gain anything, except no need to step out of the front door to read and provide those meter readings.
Thanks STW.

I’m a traditionalist…

It's the walk that gives it away.

johnners
Member

we need to invest heavily to increase generation and distribution capacity

No, we need to reduce demand.

How does reducing demand work with electrifying home heating and cars?

How’s that work when I thought the government has mandated that they have to?

IIRC, small suppliers with under a few tens of thousands of customers are exempt. If new start-up's had to immediately start to supply smart meters, it would be a deterrent to them entering the market is the reason

How does reducing demand work with electrifying home heating and cars?

There are a number of regional huge projects starting to develop large scale hydrogen generation and distribution for heating and standby electricity generation. Electricity demand won't reduce, but in a couple of decades time the use of natural gas as a direct fuel source should have reduced to zero, then when Green Hydrogen comes on stream a little later it won't be used at all.

We just had one fitted. I found a deal that was £100/year cheaper than anywhere else, but conditional on having a smart meter. The only other benefit, since we have solar panels, is that it's easy to check whether we are producing 'spare' electricity. The downside is the installer removed the equipotential bonding from the old meter, didn't fit any to the new meter and just left a card, hidden in the rest of the documents, saying it needed fixing. Which I'm taking up with them.

There are ways of doing that much more cheaply.

Much more cheaply than "free"? Have I misunderstood something here?

IIRC, small suppliers with under a few tens of thousands of customers are exempt. If new start-up’s had to immediately start to supply smart meters, it would be a deterrent to them entering the market is the reason

Aaah, I did not know that. Thank you.

There are ways of doing that much more cheaply.

Much more cheaply than “free”? Have I misunderstood something here?

Just because you're not being charged directly to upgrade to a new smart meter doesn't make it free. We've all been paying levies on our bills for years that have been paying towards the roll out programme - including the phenomenal amount of wastage arising from SMETS1 meters - whether you've had one installed or not. Consider it a benefit you've probably already paid for, but not yet received.

Much more cheaply than “free”? Have I misunderstood something here?

Not unless you genuinely believe a meter supplied as part of a £13.4Bn rollout programme can be classed as "free".

I didn't think you could self-fit smart meters?

including the phenomenal amount of wastage arising from SMETS1 meters

This incredible inefficiency shouldn't be a black mark against smart meters but against incompetent governance.

We've had a smart meter for ages. In conjunction with smart tariffs from Octopus it's saved us a lot of money by being able to make use of electricity at very cheap periods. At the last bank holiday we were paid to use electricity on the Sunday morning, which was nice.

After the curiosity wore off we've never used the in-home display, I don't think that's the important bit.

We’ve all been paying levies on our bills for years that have been paying towards the roll out programme

Ah, fair enough.

the phenomenal amount of wastage arising from SMETS1 meters

Yeah, that was particularly stupid. I held off getting mine until the supplier could guarantee SMETS2. I'm with Pure Planet like the OP now and it's the only type they install.

I didn’t think you could self-fit smart meters?

You can't. In my case it was two new fully replaced complete meters. (Actually three because the first gas meter didn't work.)

I thought I'd allow my supplier to fit them so that I could stop manually taking readings every month or two (we've had someone visit to take readings... once or never).

Instead the installer cocked up the paperwork so the gas meter never got swapped properly so I've been on estimated readings since September.

Also, the display unit won't talk to the smart bit of the meter, apparently its a well known issue and is waiting for a software fix.

So nah. Bollox to that.

Smart meters are a con, at least for consumers. They’ll let the energy companies get rid of staff who read meters, the savings from which they’ll not be passing on to you. And they’ll pave the way for demand pricing on energy, which will hit families and the less well off hardest.

Ooof that's pretty harsh even by STW standards.

Currently being hassled to get one fitted. Someone came round to fit one two years ago. We told him to check the mobile coverage before he did so but he didn’t. He finished fitting it found out it didn’t work because there was no mobile coverage and had to refit the old one. There has been no improvement to the coverage in the last two years (its a topography issue rather than remoteness) but you can’t actually talk to ask them to stop sending the emails and texts.

They’ll let the energy companies get rid of staff who read meters

There can't be many of those left anyway.

There are a number of regional huge projects starting to develop large scale hydrogen generation and distribution for heating and standby electricity generation.

Not sure hydrogen is the answer. Using natural gas to make it? Why not just burn the gas in houses and power stations as we do do without another process in the middle.

Using elecricity? Looks like another expensive way to get a gas inferior to natural gas for heating and energy generation.

http://euanmearns.com/the-hydrogen-economy-more-green-mythology/

They are of no use to me really, stuff is turned off when I'm not using it.

My fridge-freezer is always turned on and my router is always on, but there's not much I can do about that.

I use the PC a lot, but that also has a lot of modern features too, so when I'm not going something intensive, the graphics card basically switches off and the CPU down clocks to less than 1ghz from 4.8ghz.

How does reducing demand work with electrifying home heating and cars?

It’s not about total electricity use but managing demand. Make electricity cheaper at low demand times and people set their cars to charge at 2am rather than 6pm when they get home.

Been very happy with Octopus Agile so far, it tracks wholesale prices with an extra price bump 4-7pm. The only thing we changed was to set delay on washing machine, tumble dryer or dishwasher if it’s ready to go in that time. If we need to cook then we do but usually with kids it’s mostly done by 4. Outside that peak period it’s very cheap - our average price paid per kWh has been just over 6p.

SMETS1 have been firmware upgradable for a while have they not?

I was supposed to get one fitted before lockdown, couldn't get into my neighbours house to get at the mains fuse (half a job by Scottish Power years ago) so now I'm back to square one.

I'm not in a hurry but I don't get the hatred, surely accurate billing (where it works) is far better than over charging for months or years at a time?

Not sure hydrogen is the answer. Using natural gas to make it?

Other methods are available. Electrolysis f'rinstance.

SMETS1 have been firmware upgradable for a while have they not?

Maybe, I don't think anyone is doing it yet.

Even smets2 meters will lose smart functionality when switching to most other suppliers for now (and I expect a few more years).

The smets1 fiasco should have heads rolling, I have so many clients trapped with a supplier and in fuel poverty because of them. The supplier is always happy tho...

No, we need to reduce demand.

For sure. After the reductions come the price rises and "incentives" as they will be framed, which will be punishments for some and higher costs, per unit, for all.

Bet they're chomping at the bit! The plebs were offered a chance at some say in this and rejected it in favour of the benevolent private sector deciding everything with minimal government oversight/rubber stamping.

SMETS1 have been firmware upgradable for a while have they not?

Depends entirely on the meter.

I’m not in a hurry but I don’t get the hatred

Some people like to dislike things.

Even smets2 meters will lose smart functionality when switching to most other suppliers for now

How so?

The smets1 fiasco should have heads rolling, I have so many clients trapped with a supplier and in fuel poverty because of them.

Hows that? All they lose is Smart functionality, not total functionality. Someone's talking pish.

If you have a smart meter, you can shop around and switch supplier as you can with a traditional meter.

If you have a first generation smart meter, when you switch supplier your meter will continue to accurately record gas or electricity consumption as before. However, if the new supplier cannot operate your meter in smart mode, you may need to temporarily take manual meter readings, and energy suppliers must inform you of this risk.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/consumer-guide-understanding-energy-meters-ofgem/smart-meters-guide-your-rights

They’ll let the energy companies get rid of staff who read meters

I haven't had my meter read for about 15 years (and i haven't got a smart meter, yet)

How does reducing demand work with electrifying home heating and cars?

I thought we were trying to reduce demand for fossil fuels?. My understanding is demand for leccy has actually gone down over many years, but more due to efficiencies like led bulbs and energy saving appliances.
So now coal has all but been removed from electricity generation the next step will be gas. I'd presume one of the key things to replace is very expensive gas peaker plants and replace with something like more hydro from1 Norway (which can be switched on/off quickly) and Elon Musk and his massive battery storage (there's often loads of over generation from wind and solar which is just dumped. Elon will just buy it cheap at those times and sell it to the grid at peak times but cheaper than spinning up a gas peaker plant). National Grid are confident they can already handle the EV revolution with only some local DNO upgrading. However, shifting to electric heating is the big worry.

I've also read recently that in addition to the grid link to Norway, they are now due to lay a link to Denmark. Plus Elon Musk now having his UK energy provider licence

Bump.
My supplier is pushing me to get one installed, at the moment I'm ignoring them.
Tinfoil hats aside, is there any reason not to get one installed? I'll happily get it done if it's no negative to me and stops the weekly phone calls.

is there any reason not to get one installed?

My last but one provider fitted one, I use manage my bills, the last two companies they've switched me to can't use it, so it's doing bugger all.

oddly I've been with british gas for 6 months, and they haven't yet asked me to put one in. I tried applying on their website and its broken. not so smart..

I’m ignoring them

Me too, don't see the point.

so I wouldn’t gain anything,

Not strictly true.

Ours has a red light on it that comes on when the power draw is hitting a spike. This affords you the opportunity to yell at your teenage son to "Get out of that bloody shower.....the red light's on!"

It's the modern version of "Are you going to be all day in the shower....That meter's spinning like a bloody helicopter"

They put a gas one in my porch on the floor.

It sticks out further than the old one.

I keep kicking the front of it with the pram.

They won't do anything about it.

I changed supplier and they don't even use the smart function.

Don't get one, waste of time waiting in for the man.

I would rather they fit me a solar panel or 6.

It’s the modern version of “Are you going to be all day in the shower….That meter’s spinning like a bloody helicopter”

Can we not go back to my student days of having to plug 50p's in the meter? A great way of keeping folk tracking their energy use.

I had smart meters fitted. The electric meter worked fine. The gas never worked and caused no end of problems when I tried to submit a reading when changing suppliers (the meter effectively reset to zero when you get a new one, but the system never updated because it never transmitted).
Now I'm stuck with 2 fancy looking meters that are difficult to read compared to traditional meters (the smart functionality isn't transferable. What a farce)
I wouldn't bother unless the industry has got its shit together. They're the future. But maybe not right now.

As soon as there is a tangible benefit to me, sure. Until then, no thanks.

How do smart meters get the data to the supplier?

is there any reason not to get one installed?

Not any more, no.

How do smart meters get the data to the supplier?

Same way mobile phones work.

As soon as there is a tangible benefit to me, sure. Until then, no thanks.

Do you enjoy submitting meter readings?

What's the script then cougar? Do you have a smart meter that is usable by all suppliers, or do you stick to one supplier?.

I had (a second one) fitted a few weeks ago, it means I can get to work and back for £1.10 instead of £3.30 so a definite benefit.

The gas doesn’t work as it’s too far away from the electric meter which acts as a master, but it’s 50% fewer readings I have to submit and they say they’re working on some kind of repeater/booster.

How do smart meters get the data to the supplier?

Same way mobile phones work.

Excel spreadsheet.

What’s the script then cougar?

Script? I've no idea what you're asking here, sorry.

Do you have a smart meter that is usable by all suppliers, or do you stick to one supplier?.

The former.

First-gen SMETS1 meters were crap and locked to a provider unless they are capable of a retrospective firmware upgrade. Worst-case scenario, you change supplier and you're back to regular dumb meters again.

Current-gen SMETS2 meters are a standard and provider-agnostic. They will work with any supplier.

As above, all the people with issues have experienced smets1. if you get one fitted now it will be smets2 and will work when you change from supplier to supplier. I've hung on until smets2 only is being installed, but I'm only doing it for substantial financial benefits same as phil5556 otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered.

Our supplier pestered us to get 'smart' meters, my wife said good idea so daughter was detailed to stay in for the fitter........puts gas and electric meters in situ then finds that they are not transmitting. Don't worry it'll probably go live in a couple of days, no it didn't. Covid kicks in and I take readings monthly just as I always have done 'cos I'm on it like a rat on cheese through being self employed in the past and having to watch the pennies. Up to now it's been a waste of my time and someone else's money, no sign of my supplier trying to get them 'smart' in the near future.
Smets 2 by the way.

I had (a second one) fitted a few weeks ago, it means I can get to work and back for £1.10 instead of £3.30 so a definite benefit

It actually finds you cheaper energy ... or what ?

It actually finds you cheaper energy … or what ?

No it reads you meter every half hour and sends that info to your supplier, your supplier gives you half hourly prices about 24hrs beforehand (very cheap during the night, expensive 4 - 7pm, up and down the rest of the time). It's up to you then how you use it. You can buy things that know those prices and can make things switch on and off based on those prices.
This is an example of ppkwh prices during the night
[img] [/img]

I can get to work and back for £1.10 instead of £3.30 so a definite benefit.

Can't see a meter saving me any wear on my bike tyres.

As someone with a lot of experience in the energy industry, as well as some time in customer service I can guarantee you the same people who think smart meters are a con are the exact same people who call up to complain that their estimated bill is too high.

Just had smart meters fitted for free* by Octopus within a month of joining. Installer was very polite clean and helpful. Means I can go onto a smart tariff with variable rates, cheaper electricity for me and a better balance network for all.

Very confused by the hatred for an innocuous device. Even though our gas and electricity incoming kit is from the 70s had no problem fitting the smart kit alongside it.

Thumbs up to Octopus energy.

We keep getting the emails and letters about changing to smart meters. We're not keen to change yet. It's an initiative to benefit the energy company not the consumer in the long-term. The tech is still not working properly as demonstrated by first generation units being replaced already and even the new units don't always work when you change supplier. Once the kit is sorted and works for the long term (decades, not a few years) then we'll change over. Until then it's business as usual for us with the meter readings.

I know someone who fits smart meters and although he keeps telling me to get one, he also tells me stories about all the broken, outdated, badly fitted meters that he is replacing. Including being told by him boss to fit the older style meter while they wait for the new ones because the company is booking the appointments without the stock level to match.

Refused here as well. Given my meters work and previous cockups no way am I giving them the chance to cockup again

puts gas and electric meters in situ then finds that they are not transmitting. Don’t worry it’ll probably go live in a couple of days, no it didn’t.

I had this with my gas meter. They replaced the meter a few days later, it's been fine since.

Very confused by the hatred for an innocuous device.

5G causes covid (that doesn't exist anyway) remember.

The tech is still not working properly as demonstrated by first generation units being replaced already

Being replaced by... ?

Once the kit is sorted and works for the long term (decades, not a few years) then we’ll change over.

What do you think is going to happen if it doesn't "work"? It's a meter. Worst case scenario, the smart bit of it fails and it turns into a regular meter exactly like you have now. It's not going to suddenly cut off your electricity or stop metering, you have nothing to lose other than the inconvenience of being home for an hour while they fit it.

If they had a 12 month lifespan and then had to be swapped, I'd take that as preferable to me rummaging around in a cupboard on my hands and knees with a torch between my teeth going "... is that a 6 or an 8?" every couple of months.

Joy of joys my new "smart" meters are in, up and running, and have been for a couple of months.  So I had to raise a complaint with my supplier as they have given me no indication of whether they can read the meters remotely, or if they are working from their end. Particularly relevant given the gas meter took a couple of weeks to go live, I wanted to make sure all was OK at their end, and if I could stop taking readings.

It turns out that they can "Access the meters" remotely, they do not have the capability to take readings and use them to produce bills!  So I still have to submit monthly meter readings...   At least I can now read the meters from the display unit in the hall, and not have to scrabble around under the stairs (electric)/on a ladder outside (gas).

So it's a smart meter that has a dumb-supplier on the other end...  To be honest I quite like the compromise!

Are you North of Sheffield or South?

There’s been a number of reports on electricians forums where customers on smart meters are getting their bills increase massively, very difficult to dispute with an energy supplier. I had one recently, installed a check meter for the customer so they could prove the smart meter was waaay out