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If there is a strike on 30June I will take my kids to school regardless and sue the school for breach of the contact that we (parents; teachers; & children) signed at the beginning of the school year.
Not convinced you'll get a whole lot of sympathy here 😉
See thread "look after your own kids..."
Don't they get enough time off as it is.
[gets the grenade in early]
Why dont they go on strike on one of their days theyre not at school, but that would be so easy.
what contract?
If there is a strike on 30June I will take my kids to school regardless and sue the school for breach of the contact that we (parents; teachers; & children) signed at the beginning of the school year.
Promise?
You have a contract with your school?
What forms the consideration in this contract?
Told you!!!
Here they come....
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My father and mother were both teacher, both had long holidays, both retired early, both did prep and marking but not beyond what was considered to be within their professional obligations - from their own admission.
If there is a strike on 30June I will take my kids to school regardless and sue the school for breach of the contact that we (parents; teachers; & children) signed at the beginning of the school year.
What, your kids that much hassle?
Good luck can we have an update sounds exciting.
My father and mother were both teacher, both had long holidays, both retired early, both did prep and marking but not beyond what was considered to be within their professional obligations - from their own admission.
When did they retire?
I have the contract somewhere. I could dig iy out if I could be bothered. The initiative was the schools, I assume the ratiaonale was to demonstrate to the kiddies the teachers' commitment to teach, supported by the parents, with a promise from the pupils....
Dad was 50ish, 15ish years ago; mum was 60ish, 5ish years ago
What, your kids that much hassle?
Yep, when you are booked on a £500 / day course as a work objective - hit directly in the pocket if I fail to attend.
Still time to get them adopted if you want to save that money.
How ironic OP that you talk of contracts...oh I can't be bothered... 'night all
I have the contract somewhere. I could dig iy out if I could be bothered. The initiative was the schools, I assume the ratiaonale was to demonstrate to the kiddies the teachers' commitment to teach, supported by the parents, with a promise from the pupils....
i very much doubt it is an actual legal contract.
Teaching is very different now from what it was 15 years ago, 5 years ago, not such a big difference. But the pressures on teachers have been increasing over the years. I'm sure your mother will attest to that.
[color=blue](Full disclosure - I'm a teacher).
Home/school contracts are a good idea on the surface (we have one), but actually have very little substance. Much better to actually try and build a positive relationship between school and parents by other means (community projects, good quality communications, getting parents involved in school in practical ways, etc.).
Of course, there is no 'right to strike' in UK law (although IIRC EU legislation and High Court rulings earlier this year run strongly contrary to that), so you could always try a legal challenge against your children's teachers.
My own union has not yet made a decision on strike action. If I'm honest I would be torn - I understand the union/profession's stance, but striking as a teacher doesn't personally feel right to me.
slainte 😕 rob[/color]
Did you sue the school on the royal wedding day?
What we need is more acadamies where the managers set and enforce the curiculum, and also set the pay.
You mean where academies where the education costs more for worse results?
ours has huge signs outside saying how well it does.
Teachers striking again!!!!!
One of the two unions involved has never had a national strike in its entire history.
yes - but the actual experience is that they are very costly and do not improve results .
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/jun/04/academy-comprehensive-results-indistinguishable
project - MemberWhat we need is more acadamies where the [b]managers set and enforce the curiculum,[/b] and also set the pay.
That gave me a chuckle haha. Too many managers in education that are not fit for purpose.
ours has huge signs outside saying how well it does.
could have bought some books instead
My father and mother were both teacher(sic), both had long holidays, both retired early, both did prep and marking but not beyond what was considered to be within their professional obligations - from their own admission.
This will have been in the days of chalk boards, corporal punishment and teachers wearing long black gowns?
My wife is a teacher and your words do not reflect the status quo for teachers today. It is a hard job, made harder by ****wits in government (both national and local) who could not find their collective arses with sat-nav assisted hands. It is not the life I would choose for myself or my children. You are talking shite my friend.
i dont care i hate sending my kids to school every day poor fekkers. 😕
Dad was 50ish, 15ish years ago; mum was 60ish, 5ish years ago
So old enough to be involved in the last big Teacher strike in the 80s then.
This will have been in the days of chalk boards.....
I suspect it was before then........in the days of blackboards.
Are these the same teachers that were wringing their hands about people taking their kids on holidays in term time?
Are these the same teachers that were wringing their hands about people taking their kids on holidays in term time?
Perhaps, but that is entirely consistent. They recognise that every day of education is important and that is why their greatest threat is to withhold that day.
project - MemberWhat we need is more acadamies where the managers set and enforce the curiculum, and also set the pay.
Without extensive tests, it's impossible to tell if this comment was intentionally or unintentionally funny. I'll let you know when we hear more from the lab.
What we need is more acadamies where the managers set and enforce the curiculum
Quite right, what this country needs is more meaningless management ****speak and less actual education.
A. Dailymail-Reader
Well said that Daily Mail reader! And with Michael (who knicked my chin?) Gove in charge, you can be sure of ****speak flowing like water.
I suspect that they're striking over the proposed changes to pension arrangements (thats not been communicated in this bun fight). Should this be the case then I expect that the teachers (or at least unions) are taking the view that they shouldn't have their pensions raided so the government can balance it's books after a recession that they didn't cause, and that they had an expectation of certain pension arrangements when joining the profession. Agree or not I can understand why they might feel the need to take a stand.
Happy to have my suppositions challenged
Buns... Where? Are they allowed on the iDave diet?
Speaking of academies, i was told schools get almost £30k for the conversion process and they are encouraged to use it on lawyers and accountants to get things straight. I guess that is one way to help the economy grow: use public money to subsidise the private sector.
I guess that is one way to help the economy grow: use public money to subsidise the private sector.
Unintentionally ? funny.
On Radio 4 last night they had a teacher explaining the main reasons why they are going on strike.
1. Their pay has been frozen for 2 years.
2. They have been asked to up their pension contributions (not their fault but the bankers, so why should they pay for it) her words...
She did sprout another reason, but by that stage I was already in disbeleif.
However I do like a good strike though, not enough in the UK these days.
Dad was 50ish, 15ish years ago; mum was 60ish, 5ish years ago
Under the proposed changes, your mam and dad would have another three years of work ahead of them.
Most employers pay 3-10% of salary as a pension contribution.
The teachers already get an effective 20% employer contribution (based on the delta between pension benefit entitlement and their personal contributions) but are moaning because they are being asked to make a larger personal contribution at a time when many people outside of the profession have no pension at all, and no spare cash to start one.
No fasrmer john - they agreed in 2007 to make a larger contribution and to have the state contribution capped. However having agreed significant changes to make the scheme sustainable and affordable the government now wont to reduce the benefits greatly to reduce the state contribution greatly
So old enough to be involved in the last big Teacher strike in the 80s then.
Yeah, same as my mum. She didn't strike. Nor did my dad in the first miners strike (Early 70s I believe) He saw what was coming and jacked it in.
As far as I can see you have to be a bloody idiot to go on strike. I can imagine what would happen if I did.... I'd find myself with no job fairly quickly.
1. Their pay has been frozen for 2 years.
2. They have been asked to up their pension contributions (not their fault but the bankers, so why should they pay for it) her words
Ahh diddums. Join the club.
Strikers = Workshy wasters. Grow up.
Strikers = Workshy wasters. Grow up.
So members of the Association of Teachers and Lecturers are going to strike for the first time in their 127 year history simply because they are "workshy" ?
Grow up PeterPoddy and try to think of a sensible comment.
What we need is more acadamies where the managers set and enforce the curiculum,
They could enforce accurate spelling, for a start.
Academies?
Curriculum?
What we need is more acadamies where the managers set and enforce the curiculum,
Or the school where you learnt to spell under special measures. 🙂
PP, when the teachers got improved pay and conditions,did she take them? Or did she refuse,since she had not taken the industrial action that forced change.
You know the issue with pensions is only very indirectly related to the financial crisis we just went through. The real problem is that we have an ageing population. When the baby boomers retire, in about ten years time, there will be more people in retirement than there are in the work place. Those working today pay for today's pensioners hence there won't be enough in the pot when those working today all retire.
There is a connection with the indirect results of the economic crisis, in that depressed rates of return act to reduce the net value of contributions over time.
But as for it being a crisis that banker 'caused' well I think we've dealt with that one numerous times here. The bankers didn't pour the money down a well, they gave it to us, teachers, nurses, doctors, accountants, sales people; whatever your profession, if you have a mortgage, credit card or indeed any form of debt you're directly part of the problem and even if you don't, you've still benefited from the glut of cheap credit that drove the UK economy along and kept prices, unemployment and inflation low.
But as for it being a crisis that banker 'caused' well I think we've dealt with that one numerous times here. The bankers didn't pour the money down a well, they gave it to us, teachers, nurses, doctors, accountants, sales people; whatever your profession.........etc etc
So we've dealt with whether the crises was "caused" by bankers on numerous occasions ?
And the conclusion we came to was that bankers had behaved perfectly reasonably - they were not greedy and incompetent, and therefore not in anyway responsible for the crises ?
I must have missed those threads........have you any links geetee1972 ?
On Radio 4 last night they had a teacher explaining the main reasons why they are going on strike.1. Their pay has been frozen for 2 years.
2. They have been asked to up their pension contributions (not their fault but the bankers, so why should they pay for it) her words...She did sprout another reason, but by that stage I was already in disbeleif.
Disbelief? Why?
Essentially, taking inflation into account, the teachers are getting a pay-cut.
Under new legislation they are paying more into their pensions (surely one of the few 'perks' of the public sector?) to see less at the end.
Add to this increased red tape (such as 'contracts' between schools and pupils) and a curriculum that is turned on its head every few years by new 'forward thinking' education secretaries, I'm struggling to find a positive reason for going into teaching.
What we need is more acadamies where the managers set and enforce the curiculum, and also set the pay.
Without extensive tests, it's impossible to tell if this comment was intentionally or unintentionally funny. I'll let you know when we hear more from the lab.
I think we have to assume irony here as no one could be stupid enough to believe that AND be capable of writing in sentences.
The bankers didn't pour the money down a well, they gave it to us...
They did. They even gave us money that wasn't theirs to give, all to make more money in the longer term.
I also think 'lent' is the word you're looking for. 'Gave' indicates they don't want it back...
Sorry, but I feel I'm missing the point.
1. Their pay has been frozen for 2 years.
2. They have been asked to up their pension contributions (not their fault but the bankers, so why should they pay for it) her words
I work in the private sector and have had to change my pension arrangements in the last twelve months because of the economic pressures being faced by my employer. My pay has also been frozen for the past two years despite facing longer hours and greater uncertainty. I don't have the option of going on strike, all I can do is get on with things and look for a better job in the meantime.
I've got no time for teachers or any other public sector workers who moan about how hard they have things. They should just shut up and get on with their chosen profession like the rest of us.
I don't have the option of going on strike, all I can do is get on with things and look for a better job in the meantime.
Yes you did have the option of going on strike. Just because you weren't prepared to stand up for your terms and conditions don't simply assume that no one else is.
Northwind - Memberproject - Member
What we need is more acadamies where the managers set and enforce the curiculum, and also set the pay.
Without extensive tests, it's impossible to tell if this comment was intentionally or unintentionally funny. I'll let you know when we hear more from the lab.
Posted 10 hours ago # Report-Post
Wasnt meant to be funny, but truth, why do we need a national pay scale, and national conditions, supply and demand, and in working class areas you need working class skills/trades and in the more affluent areas you need more academic lessons, to suit the parents ideologys.
Just like in the old secondary and grammer schools,
....in the more affluent areas you need more academic lessons, to suit the parents ideologys.Just like in the old secondary and grammer schools,
Ah........those halcyon days when people knew their place, and a child's entire life was decided upon sitting an exam at the age of 11.
Just like in the old secondary and grammer schools,
[i]Grammar[/i]
Oh, and you should use a full stop to end a sentence, not a comma.
😉
I've got no time for teachers or any other public sector workers who moan about how hard they have things. They should just shut up and get on with their chosen profession like the rest of us.
The difference is that teachers, like nurses and firemen, are providing a public service. I daresay that whatever you do Big Dave is ultimately a private enterprise with the ultimate aim of making a profit. The public sector is traditionally the ball used in the game of politics cricket and the end result of underfunding is far more reaching than your company going bust.
To put it into context, if your company doesn't make a profit, it folds and you have to look for a new job. If the ambulance service is underfunded, lives that could have been saved will be lost.
The bankers didn't pour the money down a well, they gave it to us, teachers, nurses, doctors, accountants, sales people
No they bloody didn't. They lent it to speculators with very little thought as to how it would be repaid when various bubbles burst, but not giving a $hit because by the time that happened most of them would have already taken their bonuses and moved on elsewhere.
They TOOK IT from us, teachers, nurses, doctors, accountants and sales people, mainly indirectly, by using the money that those people had accrued in their pension funds, or money that councils had collected and had in the bank waiting to be spent on services.
The aging population is a problem, but one which we have known about for years, but which the people who were in charge of the system have done sod all about - remember all those companies taking "pensions holidays" in the 1990's because their funds were in surplus? Remember Robert Maxwell? We (including the teachers) have been shafted by 30 years of bad Government, bad governance, poor auditing, corporate greed and rapacious BANKERS.
Wasnt meant to be funny, but truth, why do we need a national pay scale, and national conditions, supply and demand, and in working class areas you need working class skills/trades and in the more affluent areas you need more academic lessons, to suit the parents ideologys.Just like in the old secondary and grammer schools,
Exactly. The current and recent crises have been caused by the removal of the class barriers to education. By pretending that the working classes have the same rights to education as the middle and upper classes we have produced a generation of Bankers, Teachers, Engineers and the like who clearly lack the cultural heritage to carry out those jobs successfully. The issue is that on the surface you can teach a monkey to press buttons, but ultimately, when things go wrong, you need a level head and a steady hand on the tiller and these qualities cannot be attained by just sending a kid from a working class environment through the motions of education. Filter them out early enough and we will avoid these National crises.
Edit:
If the ambulance service is underfunded, [s]lives [/s] children's faces that could have been saved will be lost.
Grow up PeterPoddy and try to think of a sensible comment.
That's what I think. Sorry if you don't like it, but tough. Personally, I'd never strike for anything, I'm not and never will be in a union. All it does is shoot yourself in the foot as far as I can see. Do the job or leave and get a better one. Even I can do that, and I don't give a hoot about work.
Teachers have it easy, even my mum used to admit that. She just got bored of it the last few years before she retired.
Teachers have it easy, even my mum used to admit that. She just got bored of it the last few years before she retired
Then she must have been a crap teacher. But the crapness that some teachers are allowed to get away with is a different issue.
If that's how your life has worked, you have really lucked out, you just don't know it. In reality it isn't so simple for most people.
I don't have the option of going on strike, all I can do is get on with things and look for a better job in the meantime.
Yes you do.
However, you probably don't have a collective pay deal like teachers do, which means that there may well be similar jobs to yours out there at different rates of pay. If my wife (teacher) moves jobs she will still get the same pay and conditions elsewhere. She's not in a position where she can hawk herself around for a pay rise.
Personally, I'd never strike for anything, I'm not and never will be in a union. All it does is shoot yourself in the foot as far as I can see
Have you checked out employment law before there were unions and afterwards? Very little was freely given and required protest and actions of the workers. Even you have won for our actions
She's not in a position where she can hawk herself around for a pay rise.
And that's the price she paid for leng term stability, guaranteed pay rises and a pension. Low risk, low reward, if she wants to take the higher risk for the higher reward, she's perfectly free to do so.
How often do we hear about teachers being fired for underperforming?
That's what I think. Sorry if you don't like it, but tough.
Don't be such a sensitive soul, the "grow up" suggestion was the same one which you gave to teachers.
She just got bored of it the last few years before she retired.
It sounds like she was really committed teacher. In contrast my mother who was a kindergarten teacher, carried on doing voluntary teaching in schools long after she retired - until she was physically too weak to walk to the school in fact. She never grew bored of teaching.
I've got some paint in the shed and a few cardboard boxes that you could cut out some sort of plaqueard, though you'll have to supply your own broom handles.
And oil drum,
And burgers,
And tents,
And loud hailers..
I wonder if you'll all be kettled into Traf Sq like sheep.
Teachers have it easy...
😆
That's my favourite quote of the day so far.
This guy had a particularly easy time, and was obviously supported all the way through his easy career: [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/may/24/teacher-dumbbell-peter-harvey-community-order ]http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/may/24/teacher-dumbbell-peter-harvey-community-order[/url]
I'm not complaining. My wife is very happy in her job (or more accurately VOCATION - I don't think she would want to do anything else) - I was merely reminding Big Dave that there is always a context to these apparently straightforward issues.
Risk/reward is also a pretty stupid measure as it often seems to be rolled out to justify extremely selfish behaviour. For example, bankers have been quite happy to risk other peoples money when all the rewards accrue to them. Whilst at the same time, where would we be without all of those people who work in "low risk" (financial risk) jobs, like teachers, nurses, soldiers etc, who actually keep society running.
I don't have the option of going on strike, all I can do is get on with things and look for a better job in the meantime.Yes you do.
er, no I don't. Mainly because I'm not a union member and because I'm realistic about the financial situation that my employer is in. Unless it is over something truly serious like safety related issues I have no sympathy for those who choose to strike. In fact if I tried to strike my employer would sack me without hesitation. I have worked for a council in the past and I refused to strike even then. If I'm paid to do a job but there is something I'm not happy with I'll do all I can to change it but if if that isn't possible I'll find another job with better conditions.
Maybe its time public sector workers realised they are in a much better position in terms of job security and financial benefits than the vast majority of private sector workers.
In fact if I tried to strike my employer would sack me without hesitation.
which would be against the law.
so you work 60 hr weeks with no holiday, holiday pay,sick pay? all benefits fought for by unions that improved the lot of the workers
Unless it is over something truly serious like safety related issues I have no sympathy for those who choose to strike. In fact if I tried to strike my employer would sack me without hesitation.
Yes your law breaking employer thanks you for being so weak as to never stand up to them as they would sack you ..if only we had mor epeole like you we could still have the dark satanic mills and child labour ...employers give you nothing unles syou make them as there sole reason for existence is to make money the less they pay you , the harde ryou work ect the more they make.
er, yes you do.
"Essentially, taking inflation into account, the teachers are getting a pay-cut."
Oh poor teachers...Mrs FD and myself both currently work in the Public sector and have 2 years pay freeze in place, and it looks like our pension is going to be affected too. The government is taking money off us left right and centre in additional taxes (or removing tax benefits) too, so all in all we are taking home less money now than we were 2 years ago. Taking inflation in to account we are getting completely screwed. Yes we are a bit mythed by it because we both work hard.
However
1. We are glad we still have a job that pays a good wage (just like any teacher)
2. In the current climate you are lucky to be in work and not being made redundant!
Both my parents were teachers and I also know many teachers, but some times they do live a bit too far in the own little world bubble.
Maybe its time public sector workers realised they are in a much better position in terms of job security and financial benefits than the vast majority of private sector workers.
Yeah - job security for life...
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13717183 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-13717183[/url]
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8428013/MoD-redundancies-Gurkhas-heaviest-hit-by-Army-cuts.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8428013/MoD-redundancies-Gurkhas-heaviest-hit-by-Army-cuts.html[/url]
With the same benefits as the private sector...
[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7920462/Fresh-bonus-fears-as-bank-profits-rise.html ]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7920462/Fresh-bonus-fears-as-bank-profits-rise.html[/url]
Taking inflation in to account we are getting completely screwed.
You said it yourself.
And that's why teachers are looking at striking.
I don't have the option of going on strike, all I can do is get on with things and look for a better job in the meantime.
Here's the rub. What if your employer was more or less the only option?
It's a little more difficult to switch jobs for better conditions when all LEAs offer more or less the same terms (apart from London weighting, which is a touch unfair, every where is expensive to live and work in these days).