Teachers Strikes - Is this a bit wrong?

A strike is called when 2 parties cannot reach an agreement, employer and employees, while it is one side striking the situation is not wholly of their creating.

The employer benefits from the strike by not paying the wages during the strike, the employee loses those wages. I see no problem with doing something to regain that lost income. Pretty sad that a teacher feels the need to work extra hours offering private tuition in the first place to supplement low wages.

Seems a shame that they think this is the solution for poor teaching in school and is a grossly unfair system based on affordability.

Do they think that, or are they just being realistic about the effects of their constrained funding, including most pertinently for this discussion… what they can pay their teaching staff?

(£35 x 8 x 2 = £560 cash)

Don't forget Income Tax and NI.

Do they think that, or are they constrained by their funding, including most pertinently for this discussion… what they can pay their teaching staff.

They do think that. I had a sit down chat with the head of maths to ask why so may kids need to get extra tuition. His response was that it is perfectly normal in that subject and nothing wrong with the school. He then pulled out stats sheets to show me how good their grades are, totally missing the irony that they are only that good partially due to the absolute fortune being paid locally for maths tuition.

What do you want the school to do? How do you want them to fund what you want them to do?

Don’t forget Income Tax and NI.

i think by his addition of the word cash he was suggesting that he believed they were not declaring it .....

The employer benefits from the strike by not paying the wages during the strike, the employee loses those wages. I see no problem with doing something to regain that lost income. Pretty sad that a teacher feels the need to work extra hours offering private tuition in the first place to supplement low wages.

I agree.

Don’t forget Income Tax and NI.

Cash only....

i think by his addition of the word cash he was suggesting that he believed they were not declaring it …..

"Believes"... do you mean guessing? Not handling card or cheque payments doesn't automatically mean dodging tax.

Cash only….

OP doesn't say cash only, they say £560 cash.

And I would assume the tuition is done remotely anyway? We pay our additional tuition fees by bank transfers and I do not begrudge a single penny of it - our daughter has moved from the bottom set and into the top set in maths because of it. And she wasn't in the bottom set because of poor teaching, it was because she needed additional help on a one-to-one basis that no teacher in a state school can possibly afford to give.

I see no problem with doing something to regain that lost income. Pretty sad that a teacher feels the need to work extra hours offering private tuition in the first place to supplement low wages.

Pretty much spot on. The disagreement isnt between the pupils and the teachers. bummer if you cant afford the tuition though.

Cash only….

Shit bags. string em up. unfortunatly the only control you hold there is to insist in paying into an account, and they will then just give your slot to someone who doesnt have any qualms about dodging tax.

Ironic really, as the tax they are dodging pay their salary? theoretically, if the wern't dodging taxes they governemnt might be able to pay them properly.

Cash only….

OP doesn’t say cash only, they say £560 cash.

Oh man, you're gonna feel silly.

Oh man, you’re gonna feel silly.

Unless I am missing something glaringly obvious, I don't think I am. The OP's language could imply the teacher will only accept cash payments but it doesn't directly say that is the case. Does it? I have re-read it a few times now.

Edit: Ahhh - he says so in follow-ups.

My bad

Overthinking it mate.

As alluded to above - you should be thinking why does a maths teacher (4 year maths degree at university, plus teaching masters plus placement) feel the need for a second job?

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I’m going to suggest it’s not because they want to spend less time with their family at home. </span>

Ironic really, as the tax they are dodging pay their salary? theoretically, if the wern’t dodging taxes they governemnt might be able to pay them properly.

True.

Though there's nothing wrong with paying or receiving cash, it's what is done with it afterwards.

HMRC have a hotline if you want to report suspicions

I think the ultimate bosses of the school would rather you paid for all your kids tuition, rather than sponging it off the state. (Their view, not mine)

Why is she only charging £35 per hour. Tell her ask for £50 per hour. There is plenty of demand.

Overthinking it mate.

I think you are right, I think.

What do you feel about the teacher that supplements their income via private tuition when they could be doing an afterschool club?

It's their time - they aren't paid when they strike, so free to offer themselves up for other income at that point.

My query - when my wife's school were on strike earlier, then the kids were all set work to do instead of teaching; some teachers put in considerable time beforehand to record lessons, etc. Many kids were still in school, and supervised by others (if not taught) in doing this work. She might be free but are the kids she is offering to?

My employment contract says that moonlighting during contracted hours is considered misconduct, which could result in disciplinary action or termination of employment. Working another job whilst pulling a sickie would clearly be in breach of my contract, but I'm not sure whether the same would apply to striking - it 'feels' similar.

By the way, I've got no problem with people striking, or people doing additional work in their free time, apart from the fact it may be a necessity.

I've also got no problem with paying for services/good with cash. Whether they pay tax or not is none of my business - it's a matter between them and HMRC.

My employment contract says that moonlighting during contracted hours is considered misconduct, which could result in disciplinary action or termination of employment

Have you checked the Maths teacher's contract?

Working another job whilst pulling a sickie would clearly be in breach of my contract, but I’m not sure whether the same would apply to striking – it ‘feels’ similar.

Totally different, one you get paid for, the other you don't.

when my wife’s school were on strike earlier, then the kids were all set work to do instead of teaching; some teachers put in considerable time beforehand to record lessons, etc

is that not against the unions advice specifically.....

Not contracted hours as they are withholding their labour and not being paid

I know lots of folk who need to do exam marking to make ends meet. But as a second job it's taxed at 40%.

Yes that's against union advice. You shouldn't be asked to cover for a striking teacher and a striking teacher shouldn't be setting work for strike day

My employment contract says that moonlighting during contracted hours is considered misconduct,

The employer isn't paying the teacher when they're on strike.

But as a second job it’s taxed at 40%.

No it's not - only earnings over the threshold attract the higher rate irrespective of how many different jobs you work.

None of my teaching contracts had any clause regarding other work. A few of the staff had other jobs which they fitted round their timetable. Working for other schools was not encouraged by the SMT at my last place though, but mostly to ‘ensure focus’ on their own institution. Part timers were often given hours that made it difficult to work in two places- never explicitly for that reason but some of us had suspicions.

To declare - I am a teacher who currently teaches in the independent sector for a school that "does not recognise unions" - whatever that means.....a topic for another thread.

I feel mixed about this. I agree, it 'feels' a bad look. Friends I know who have been out (in Scotland) have declared (the teachers directly, not via school management) as a school that they (the teachers) were spending the day either manning the protest at the gate in rotation, in school providing emergency supervision for children with particularly difficult home lives or catching up on preparation or paperwork at home. Whilst declaring you were working unpaid on a strike day could also been seen as counter productive, I think it probably helped to keep the parents on side. Maybe also highlighted the amount of paperwork necessary too. A maths teacher on strike but offering private tuition to those who could afford it feels a little bit like a paramedic pitching up at a hospital gate picket line with a minicab and offering out paid lifts to hospital.

when my wife’s school were on strike earlier, then the kids were all set work to do instead of teaching; some teachers put in considerable time beforehand to record lessons, etc

Also sort of self defeating, if there is no negative effect, why bother striking at all...

A maths teacher on strike but offering private tuition to those who could afford it feels a little bit like an paramedic pitching up at a hospital gate picket line with a minicab and offering out paid lifts to hospital.

A better analogy would be working shifts at a local private hospital....

Here is the rub, his private tutor is a maths teacher in a neighbouring school. She is striking for two days this week. Whilst striking she is offering 8 extra tuition sessions per day. (£35 x 8 x 2 = £560 cash. Nothing wrong with my maths).

Is it right that a teacher strikes, in doing so kids miss out on lessons just weeks before exams, same teacher then profits from selling private tuition to backfill?

I'm surprised if that is technically acceptable to do whilst striking.  I'm certainly no expert on strike law but refusing to work for your employer because of an industrial dispute is one thing, working for another employer is rather different.  That doesn't mean the main employer would actually do anything even if they knew - the legal department are likely to be risk averse about picking a fight with people on strike.  However, I imagine the union might take a dim view, because if this sort of thing is widespread then its the Mail/Torygraphs dream - "Teacher's striking whilst earning triple time cash in hand".  Personally, I think it really dilutes the employee's message - as an external observer I can judge how much of a dick the employer is being because the employee is prepared to lose wages over it, then there's value to what they are striking for.  Perhaps I should be wondering if striking paramedics are actually covering big events for private agencies, and nurses are banking in care homes etc.

Not sure how my moral compass spins on this, but I booked lessons anyway as he needs the input and help.

I think I'd probably end up doing the same in your shoes.  I suppose you could argue that the tutor is just compensating for the lost learning her tutees are getting and has their interests at heart. ;-).

His response was that it is perfectly normal in that subject and nothing wrong with the school. He then pulled out stats sheets to show me how good their grades are, totally missing the irony that they are only that good partially due to the absolute fortune being paid locally for maths tuition.

I hate the whole concept of tutoring.  Middle class parents buying their kids a better mark.  BUT I think you are both right and wrong - it does provide schools with a nice "get out" for having mediocre teachers* but really it's a societal problem not a schools one - why are we obsessed with passing exams?  (* FWIW at our local school its not the teaching skill that is the problem - its the in school behaviour/culture which means there is less time for decent teaching - and that is a good school that people buy houses specifically to get in to, god knows what the less desirable schools are like).  I'd also say its a bit of a parental problem too: quite a few friends send their kids to tutors but have never tried to just help them themselves - 2023 society though, you just buy a solution.

quite a few friends send their kids to tutors but have never tried to just help them themselves

I couldn't help my kids with their yr5/6 maths homework – I haven't a hope now (year 9)!

quite a few friends send their kids to tutors but have never tried to just help them themselves

Pretty sure it's all changed now, no more long division etc and something called 'chunking' now!

I quite liked old school maths, using Bartlow's 5 figure tables for trig look ups pre-calculator days...

I couldn’t help my kids with their yr5/6 maths homework – I haven’t a hope now (year 9)!

Mine didn't want to hear it from me (PhD in basically Applied Maths). I've coached other children for free.

Whether they pay tax or not is none of my business – it’s a matter between them and HMRC.

If you're a tax payer and don't want to pay more tax than you should, then it is your business.

Usual anti-teacher bollocks from some STWers.

Picky, picky doing their utmost to find fault. Modern parents eh. No respect just obnoxious arrogant unpleasant people challenging everything and contributing nothing when they'd do better questinning their own approach to parenting and take some responsibility for bringing up thei kids rather than let the kids' mobile phone do it.

Good parents who value the efforts made by tezchers exist, if you are one ingnore the above rant which started tongue in cheek but when reread seemed uncomfortably close to reality in too many cases as multiple threads on this forum demonstrate.

Also sort of self defeating, if there is no negative effect, why bother striking at all…

Wasn't the striking teachers that necessarily did that. But the point was (and remains unanswered) does the teacher even have an audience if the kids will still be in school supervised by TA's, senior staff or doubled up classes.

Mine didn’t want to hear it from me (PhD in basically Applied Maths). I’ve coached other children for free.

Hah yes - I do get that from them when I offer to help on subjects I can – most recently they are studying the Nazis in History and I know plenty on that subject (currently reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich) but they don't want me anywhere near them 🙁

Usual anti-teacher bollocks from some STWers.

I don't see much in the way of anti-teacher posts on here - just views on the morality of tutoring whilst on strike.

I hate the whole concept of tutoring. Middle class parents buying their kids a better mark

+1 bitd the only kids in my youngest son's year to pass the 12+ and get into grammar school were ones who were tutored, as a single parent this was something I could ill afford & probably resulted in him having to do a first degree before getting onto a physio course in a decent uni - so 3yrs extra uni fees & 3yrs behind in earnings, now doing very well, but you've heard the phase being poor is expensive 😯

EIS have declared that exam marking is fine as SQA are seen as a second employer. Although you'd normally mark exams outside your normal working hours I'm not sure how that work in times of strike. There's usually a hiccup here as we have two days holiday in June and marking software flags an issue as you are marking in school time. Easily sorted with a phone call.

Morally judging people for working their second job whilst on strike is immoral.

I hate the whole concept of tutoring. Middle class parents buying their kids a better mark

Isn't the root cause lack of funding for schools, which means they can't provide the necessary resources?

You can't blame those that can afford to, making up the difference. Well you can, but it's missing the bigger picture.

You can’t blame those that can afford to, making up the difference. Well you can, but it’s missing the bigger picture.

Yeah, I cannot see a single parent thinking 'hey, I won't pay for my child to get additional tutoring because it will put them at an unfair advantage over those who can't afford it'. And at the end of the day, as I said before, some kids just need it - I have twins and one gets maths better than the other and has always been in the top set. What do we do? Refuse to help the one that was struggling (she asked for our support as she didn't want to be in bottom set for maths with all the disruptive kids who couldn't be arsed).

Pretty sure it’s all changed now, no more long division etc and something called ‘chunking’ now!

I couldn’t help my kids with their yr5/6 maths homework – I haven’t a hope now (year 9)!

And do you think the methods of teaching arithmetic changed between your parents and you learning?  I recall my parents moaning about the "new" methods of "borrowing" in primary school subtraction, and my dad wanting to use his slide rule rather than a calculator.  BUT I don't think you actually need to know the right answer to help someone work out how to solve many problems*.  All you need to do is be able to help them work out where to look (a text book, their notes from what they did the day before, the BBC bite size website, Youtube etc), or provide a sounding board to talk through a difficulty (which often when they explain the problem out loud to you they will help solve themselves as articulating what they know and don't know is half the battle).  I see it in the young people I hire today - theres two distinct groups: the ones who expect spoon fed and the ones who presented with something they don't understand will go and dig around to find a way to try and understand.  From what I can tell the first group will often have had not just one tutor but multiple (perhaps maths, chemistry and english) but the latter have had none or perhaps one in something which they really genuinely struggled in but really needed to get to the uni course they wanted (otherwise why study a subject that doesn't "mesh" with the way your brain works!).

* I completely get that there are some problems which when you are presented with you have absolutely no idea how to solve.  I think we can still teach our children how to approach them.  Its unlikely the teacher sprung it on you for a laugh so its probably related to what you were learning.  Can we use other example problems as a clue etc.  Of course ultimately unless you are a teacher in that specific subject you might not get to the right answer or the best route to the right answer etc, but if you only have a very small number of problem questions left to seek help with the pupil can go back to their class teacher and ask for specific help with a specific problem/type of problem.  My other observation (and this was true in the 80's/90's too) is that social stigma makes it difficult for kids to go into the class and ask for help.  Weirdly, there is a strange "British" phenomenon where the Stigma is not the fear of looking stupid in front of your classmates by asking for help; its the fear of looking keen or interested in front of your classmates.  Its ok for your parents to pay for a tutor, but its not OK to ask the teacher to explain it in the class!  That's an issue we can help coach our children on!  There's a societal problem when its not cool to be smart.

Mine didn’t want to hear it from me (PhD in basically Applied Maths). I’ve coached other children for free.

Now I do have some sympathy for that position.  I think if we are honest and look inward - we'd probably realise that at least 50% of that issues comes from us not them!

and my dad wanting to use his slide rule rather than a calculator.

I did have my Dad's slide rule, but not seen it for many years - this just reminded me of it....

If I find it, I can leave it to the cats. They will have something to remember me by in years gone past.....

Sounds perfectly reasonable from the teacher. I agree that it shouldn’t be necessary from a quality of teaching perspective. I disagree about the financial perspective. Look how many NHS consultants moonlight in the private sector on the side and they are definitely not on the breadline. If thats how a teacher chooses to spend their time when they arent at work then thats their choice.

Yep, key principle of a strike is witholding your labour from an employer, accepting you won't be paid, and spending the time as you wish. Could be at a demo, watching telly, or earning money another way.

The school will be witholding the wages, and could well be using that money to pay cover staff/ LSA s / overtime to manage the timetable.
I've no probs with the teacher doing the reverse.

You can’t blame those that can afford to, making up the difference. Well you can, but it’s missing the bigger picture.

Divide and conquer

I hate the whole concept of tutoring.  Middle class parents buying their kids a better mark. 

Tutoring > moving house to be in catchment area of better school > sending kids to private school...until all schools are good, it's going to continue...

As a kid I never felt easy with the fact my folks sent my sister to tuition for maths. I never went and thought it a bit odd that my sister should get more help than me.

Now I realise it's because my folks could afford it, my sister needed help and the school system was shite.

I've worked as an English teacher in Germany tutoring 7-10 year olds in the basics of English because their parents were worried about their kids not passing the exams at aged 11 to get into the higher level of education.

The system is corrupt.

Education might be free, but it isn't fair.

It benefits those who have more at their disposal.

The more money at your disposal the more likely your kids will do well. You're more likely to have books at home if you're from a well to do/aspiring family. You're more likely to have after school help in subjects.

Life is rigged

I'm glad I don't have kids and don't have to make these moral judgements.

I would be crap at it...

I wonder if your kids maths teacher tutors the children from the school where your maths tutor comes from?

Life is rigged

Very much so, but education is only a part of it. IMO socialisation is a bigger part of it. We are a function of our environment. We have a set of values, aspirations and objectives modeled by our environment and experiences.

You can have a model school manned by elite teachers in a deprived area but you won't have more kids getting into Oxbridge, better results can be obtained by mixing up kids from different areas in schools hence the carte scolaire in France and school busing in the USA.

Then we have the parents. You know what to do if you want your kids to suceed, become a teacher, whatever your background and wherever you live. Junior went to Science Pau Paris and the Humbolt Berlin. In Science Po they do their utmost to recruit from diverse backgrounds and regions. Sure you have to score high in the entry competition but you have to offer more, in junior's case skicross and musical talent. Kids from les cités are alloted a number of places. The result is more diversity but two social groups are still over represented, rich kids and teachers' kids.

Oxbridge meanwhile is still dominated by the rich.

I am supporting the teachers they should be paid enough for one of the most important jobs and for having to deal with nightmare entitled parents.

but it isn’t fair.

And you've only just noticed?

Life isn't fair, never has been and never will be.

You just make the most of the hand you've been dealt and try not to makes things worse along the way.....

or and try to leave the world a slightly better place then when you found it (although probably not possible in terms of global warming).

regards the tutoring during a strike - i feel sorry for the kids having to do work on their day off!