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Before anyone shouts "Gove out" (yes, I know he has already gone) I'm talking about Teachers and their personal political followings / beliefs / ideologies.
I'm a qualified teacher and, personally, do not mention politics unless it is due to the news. I am sure this is a stance of many teachers but....
I know of a teacher who is a staunch Labour follower. Party member...spouts off about it in public...goes door knocking during campaigns etc.
Whilst there is nothing wrong with this in and of itself, my thoughts are surely these beliefs will find the way into the classroom despite any best intentions.
What do you think? Should teachers be 'allowed' to be party members? Where do you draw the line? Is it ok to be a UKIP member? BNP? The list goes on.
Just wanted to throw this one out to see what the thoughts of the STW massif are!
Should teachers be allowed to have a belief in a religion?
[quote=morgs ] my thoughts are surely these beliefs will find the way into the classroom despite any best intentions. Well, that's only your opinion. Perhaps you are underestimating your colleagues ability to distance his classroom work from his outside life?
Do you think the same about those of a religious persuasion?
What about homosexuals?
Whilst there is nothing wrong with this in and of itself, my thoughts are surely these beliefs will find the way into the classroom despite any best intentions.
Presumably this would be true of your beliefs too?
I work in a faith-based school so..... 😉
What do they teach ? Probably hard to introduce politics into maths
You should not be able to be a teacher if you belong to a racist party
As noted faith is worse my kids have a happy clappy teacher in a non faith school and there have been numerous complaints about them
Sorry...should have made my point a little clearer...
This person is incredibly passionate about there beliefs. I am passionate about things also (reading, rugby and music - all things which my class are aware of and all things coincidently found on the national curriculum).
It is the passion about the beliefs that make me wonder if that line can be drawn....does that make sense?
My wife is a 6th form teacher, very strong interest in politics but not a strong supporter of any one party. I'd guess it's pretty difficult to keep politics out of some lessons but surely the best teacher would not inflict their own beliefs onto the students but educate them about all the political parties.
Banning teachers from membership of the BNP, green party etc sounds reasonable - just on the grounds of basic standards of intellect. Not dissimilar to the requirement for minimum grade C GCSE maths / english to enter the profession, which isn't controversial AFAIK.
all things which my class are aware of and all things coincidently found on the national curriculum).
Is politics not on the curriculum?
Many - most? - people are passionate about their beliefs. Doesn't mean they're unprofessional. (Of course, doesn't mean they aren't either.)
And he / she is just one teacher. Other teachers may well have other opposing views. What are you suggesting, that (s)he be excluded from teaching because they enthusiastically support the Labour party? What if they just support them a bit rather than a lot? How do you define the difference?
I am passionate about things also (reading, rugby and music - [b]all things which my class are aware of[/b] and all things coincidently found on the national curriculum).
That's a good point actually, kids are sneaky. When I was at school, a popular sport was to get teachers talking about their interests; if you could find something they were enthusiastic about it was a really good way of avoiding having to do any work for half a lesson.
As noted faith is worse my kids have a happy clappy teacher in a non faith school and there have been numerous complaints about them
I blame their Father 😀
A genuine interest in the political process - we don't want that passed to our young people do we......
One of the reasons I've just left the noble profession is that, increasingly, there is less room for individuals. Years ago it was encouraged, then tolerated and now it's suppressed. At least they can can question teachers and most kids do - they just believe the media.............
I blame their Father
do you mean god? 😛
Surely it is good for kids to meet all sorts of people, and learn to make their own judgements?
IME kids are often sharper tools than we credit them for, and teachers generally very good at treading the line between character and views vs not indoctrinating or being weird.
I would hate teachers to be bland, and not feel that they cannot take some passion into the classroom.
I'll happily tell the older kids about what I think in terms of politics if they ask and some do. I was really pissed off at the last local elections when some members of my sixth form tutor group werent registered to vote...my mum didnt register me...YOU ARE A ****ING ADULT NOW. Only I didnt swear..
My a level economics teacher went on to be a labour home sec... husband liked porn . Anyway she was both a good teacher and very neutral.
Where do you draw the line?
It's really simple.
Teachers can hold whatever political affiliation they like as long as they don't explicitly bring it into the class. Obviously ones beliefs determine ones acts and opinions but professional should be able to draw this line.
That said, what should happen and what does happen are two different things. I teach in Scotland was appauled to hear some of the stuff colleagues were saying to pupils about the indyref espcially as we'd had explicit instructions from the local authority not to discuss it at all.
Teachers can hold whatever political affiliation they like as long as they don't explicitly bring it into the class.
Agreed. I'd include religion in that as well.
Obviously, when studying religion or politics, then there would need to be a fair, balanced explanation of all sides, but without taking on the "belief" bias of the teacher.
it depends though CPt as I think at extremes of either it is not great /raises issues.
Imagine someone teaching creationism for example or a BNP teacher discussing slavery or a marxist interpretation of history if you prefer
FWIW imagine if it was a muslamic swan teaching gay Jihad [] you may need to remember a thread to get that particular meme] but we would probably have issue with someone preaching "hate" in education or an extreme islamic view with say separation of the sexes etc
Some opinions are ok but some are too extreme Obviously the issue is where we draw the line and who decides what is and what is not "ok".
Junky, I think that children should be taught about the extremes, and shown that they are, quite simply, wrong!
Some opinions are ok but some are too extreme
Hence my point - There should be teaching [i]about [/i]the extremes, but not teaching the extremes. The two can, and should be separated.
They should teach us to read better 😳
Puts on hat, sits in corner, thinks of what he has just done
Depends, I had a Doctor of Politics, an old school corduroy wearing Oxford graduate politics teacher who was what one might call Old Labour during my A-levels. He was quite happy to give us his views and he was quite happy for us to argue back with him.
We enjoyed it.
Colleagues of mine were overheard talking in the staffroom about how someone was coming to their church to show them 'actual fossils from the Garden of Eden'. Fortunately they are not RE teachers.
At the end of the day, although I disagree with their views vehemently as long as they don't spout it in the class I don't really care. If you want to corrupt young minds like that you need to start an after school club instead!
as long as they don't explicitly bring it into the class.
What about when its more implicit rather than explicit?
Growing up in the 80's, I don't think my teachers gave me anything like a rounded view of, for example, Nuclear power (or weapons for that matter)
You should what stuff geography teachers get away with these days....
You should what stuff geography teachers get away with these days....
Do I know you? 🙂
It's ludicrous to suggest that personal views should be kept out of the classroom. That's not to say you should not explore contrasting views via devil's advocate, neutral chair or stated commitment. Kids are not so easily swayed by teachers to change their behaviour let alone their views.
To adopt a completely 'neutral' stance means that you leave the kids vulnerable to whatever they've picked up in the mass media or on the street and that would be a disservice indeed. Teaching kids to think critically is where it's at.
Well considering there is a variety of political opinions in the big bad world, it would be good preparation for students to experience a range of political opinions in the school environment. Unfortunately "Gove is a ****er" does not give one an extensive education in political perspectives.
Educationalists are the most left-wing tribe I know.
Banning teachers from membership of the BNP, [b]green party[/b] etc sounds reasonable - just on the grounds of basic standards of intellect
...wait....what??!!
Rancid bait is best left alone.
Always thus. We had a couple of staunch Labour teachers when I was at school, history & modern studies funnily enough. I think it was pretty well known, and so discounted. Maths teacher was very pro-SNP (this would in the mid 70s) but as you say, less likely to stir things up really. In a small town its inevitable.
Worse was the old school geography teacher who boasted of his friendship with Idi Amin (!!)
Banning teachers on the grounds of "ideology" is one of the most insidiously totalitarian ideas out there.
Why inevitable in a small town?
Banning teachers on the grounds of "ideology" is one of the most insidiously totalitarian ideas out there.
Absolutely!
Sorry...should have made my point a little clearer...
This person is incredibly passionate about there beliefs. I am passionate about things also (reading, rugby and music - all things which my class are aware of and all things coincidently found on the national curriculum).
It is the passion about the beliefs that make me wonder if that line can be drawn....does that make sense?
Hope you're not encouraging them to play rugby. It's incredibly dangerous - one of the most risky outdoor activities IIRC. 😉
If you can legally vote for them, I have never understood how you cannot belong to them. Just because I enjoy cycling and belong to a team, doesn't mean when I service someones car I'm then going to try and get them to park it up and ride instead, funny thing called professionalism, private life and public life should be kept seperate.
I had a geography teacher who was more than a tad racist who presented his views on African Farming which were wrong in a pseudo academic way that gave them credibility in my mind for far too long.
On the other hand one of my favourite teachers was a committed Christian and Vegetarian and I enjoyed hours of interrupting his lessons and arguing the toss with him.
If teachers present their beliefs and views as just that then I see no harm and much good in debating such matters with pupils.
If teachers present their religious political or racial opinions as facts to be learnt and adopted then that is clearly wrong.
If you can legally vote for them, I have never understood how you cannot belong to them.
You can it is just you cannot do certain jobs
For example the police have a legal duty to serve everyone equally - could they and would they do this duty if they were a racist?
Furthermore it would , could and should be raised in a court case when someone is charged by them and it could well raise reasonable doubt.
Same with teaching - would a racist help children of certain races to achieve their best or pick on them?