Tax/Salary sacrific...
 

  You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more

Tax/Salary sacrifice advise

60 Posts
29 Users
76 Reactions
347 Views
Posts: 220
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Just received an email from my employer that due to the recent NMW increase my salary sacrifice benefits (car, c2w and pension) take me below the NMW so they are changing my pension to a relief at source pension.

I believe this would mean I don't make NI saving on the contributions so would leave me worse off (the email failed to mention this)

I have now reduced my pension contributions from 14% to 7% to keep me above NMW and asked to be kept on salary sacrifice.

The problem is now as I am in Scotland anything I earn over £43,663 I am paying 42% tax and 8% NI which makes me feel violated and I would rather have this money put in my pension.

I am told by HR it's only my base Salary that is used for the calculations and they can't take into account allowances I have been given, can anyone confirm is this is correct? I have tried searching but can't find anything

If this is correct what are my other options? Can I ask my employer to keep my salary sacrifice and also pay extra money in via relief at source? Or any other options?

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 12:01 am
Posts: 8613
Full Member
 

I'm confused, you drop below NMW but also earn above £43k, how many hours a week do you work?!

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 7:17 am
davros, matt_outandabout, theotherjonv and 3 people reacted
Posts: 1199
Free Member
 

I am paying 42% tax and 8% NI which makes me feel violated

Does it really?

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 7:23 am
cerrado-tu-ruido, soundninjauk, thebunk and 7 people reacted
Posts: 27603
Full Member
 

If I new NMW was £43k I’d have changed my job a while ago!

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 7:29 am
Posts: 32265
Full Member
 

I’m confused, you drop below NMW but also earn above £43k, how many hours a week do you work?!

Something doesn't stack up here, I think there's a misunderstanding.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 7:30 am
Posts: 5055
Free Member
 

The problem is now as I am in Scotland anything I earn over £43,663 I am paying 42% tax and 8% NI which makes me feel violated and I would rather have this money put in my pension.

Says a Tory voter who only earns the Minimum Wage.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 7:31 am
Posts: 1672
Full Member
 

I guess if:

£1.5k a month salary sacrifice lease car
(Maybe his work pay most of it as a company car allowance)
AND £400 per month paying off a £7k bike on C2W
AND £600 per month pension contributions.

That could take our poor violated OP below NMW. Must be a lot tough life even with the schools, hospitals and other public services up here being in such good shape

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 7:39 am
Posts: 45504
Free Member
 

National Minimum Wage = @£20100 annually.

So are you putting £23k+ into pension, car and c2w?

Or do you have a low base salary with allowances for shift, or bonuses or similar?

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 7:43 am
Posts: 12507
Free Member
 

Well this is going well for you OP 🤣

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:08 am
cerrado-tu-ruido, ads678, kimbers and 5 people reacted
Posts: 5055
Free Member
 

I would rather have this money put in my pension.

You've a car & a bike, sounds like you're not prioritising your pension anyway.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:19 am
kimbers and kimbers reacted
Posts: 6762
Full Member
 

What the OP is alluding to is real although rather extreme in their case due to the combination of high pension contributions and whatever they are sacrificing for the car plus bike schemes. That is salary sacrifice so for the purposes of minimum wage calculations is taken off the gross figure. The OPs gross salary minus the salary takes their net gross salary below the minimum wage calls.

This was a reason given to us for not wanting to do an EV car salary sacrifice scheme as it wouldnt' be available to lower earners as it would take them below the NMW. Tosh of course, HR just didnt want to administrate it and were looking for excuses.

OP, are the allowances contractural, if not they may not contribute to your salary for NMW purposes.

And yes paying over 50% tax on £43k is disgusting despite what many here think. Instead of dealing with the real cost of living issues governments just hammer middle earners time and time again.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:22 am
 DT78
Posts: 10064
Free Member
 

I know plenty of very well off people doing there best to pay as little tax as possible, so I won't jump on him for that

But yes I don't understand how you can be falling into the higher rate tax band and earning minium wage....

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:22 am
Posts: 12482
Free Member
 

And yes paying over 50% tax on £43k is disgusting despite what many here think.

Whereas another view is that it is disgusting that some people earn £100K a year while other earn £20K a year with none working any harder than the other but the £100K person just having been more fortunate in life.

Take the amount of tax you pay out of it and just look at net income and see if you feel better.  i.e. £100K person gets around £60K, £20K person gets around £20K.  £60K person still doing alright aren't they...

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:29 am
cerrado-tu-ruido, kimbers, kimbers and 1 people reacted
Posts: 9093
Full Member
 

This is how it works OP - you've obviously maxed out your salary sacrifice to a big extent - well done.

By the way, the sacrifice on the car and bike also affects the amount the company pay into your pension, one of the big reason's I've not got myself a nice shiney EV ay £700 a month on our scheme - that's a massive amount of pension (over £150 a month in my case) that my employer wouldn't be contributing.

One thing is certain, you're now in the 40$ bracket, tough shoot. that's how it works - you've maxed out your salary sacrifices.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:37 am
kimbers and kimbers reacted
Posts: 32265
Full Member
 

And yes paying over 50% tax on £43k

Unless I've missed something, how do you end up paying 50% tax on all £43k?

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:38 am
kimbers and kimbers reacted
Posts: 220
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Sorry should have said my base salary is around £35k the rest is made of allowance and overtime etc

I work a lot of hours and due to my shifts and having a baby and toddler my partner is unable to work

If we were both working full time earning NMW we would be significantly better off due to the way tax works

I am definitely not well off but I can see why people might think that as didn't want to post my full Household situation

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:43 am
andy4d and andy4d reacted
Posts: 45504
Free Member
 

Unless I’ve missed something, how do you end up paying 50% tax on all £43k?

Scotland income tax and NI.

https://www.gov.uk/scottish-income-tax

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:45 am
 poly
Posts: 8699
Free Member
 

And yes paying over 50% tax on £43k is disgusting despite what many here think. Instead of dealing with the real cost of living issues governments just hammer middle earners time and time again.

it’s commonly misrepresented as such but it’s NOT 50% tax on £43K, it’s 50% tax on earnings OVER £43k.  If you don’t know this , I’m not sure you deserve 43k!

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 8:50 am
robola, hooli, MoreCashThanDash and 5 people reacted
Posts: 3826
Full Member
 

Yep progressive taxation. Lots of people don’t seem to understand it!

of course once you reach the higher tax band you get taxed more but you do receive higher pension benefit too in terms of tax relief.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:04 am
Posts: 9539
Free Member
 

I.e. £100K person gets around £60K,

rofl

how do you end up paying 50% tax on all £43k?

Agreed, there's a huge amount of duff info on this thread

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:06 am
 poly
Posts: 8699
Free Member
 

Sorry should have said my base salary is around £35k the rest is made of allowance and overtime etc

I work a lot of hours and due to my shifts and having a baby and toddler my partner is unable to work

to answer your original question.  Some types of payment count, some do not.  You’d be better placed checking the .gov.uk site than asking here with vague questions.  One thing to be aware is the NMW is determined on your pay period (eg monthly) not annually and so some low basic very high commission people paid quarterly or annual bonus can trip over these sort of issues too.

you’ll find it difficult to get people to feel much sympathy for someone maximising their salary sacrifices to avoid tax, who has discovered some limitations on it.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:07 am
 poly
Posts: 8699
Free Member
 

£100K person gets around £60K

A person in Scotland earning £100k and doing absolutely nothing to manage their tax now earns £65.2k pa.  If they were in England the same person would be on £68.5k.

At 60K it would be £45.6k and £43.5K respectively.

at 40K is its £32.2k and 32.3k

at 30K you get 25.1k either way

at 22k you get 19.4K either way

as the op has discovered higher earners can do various things to manage their tax which benefit them more that low earners, and which the lowest earners might not qualify for at all.  Everyone always believes they pay more tax than they should and that higher earners should pay more than they do!

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:28 am
cerrado-tu-ruido, droplinked, AD and 5 people reacted
Posts: 12482
Free Member
 

Wait until they get into the over £100K bracket and start losing their tax allowance meaning that in real terms the money from 100 - 125 is getting 60% taken from it.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:33 am
Posts: 5055
Free Member
 

And folk in Scotland earning the actual NMW are better off than those in England because they pay less tax - why do you want to make lower earners pay more tax?

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:49 am
kimbers, matt_outandabout, kimbers and 1 people reacted
 poly
Posts: 8699
Free Member
 

If this is correct what are my other options? Can I ask my employer to keep my salary sacrifice and also pay extra money in via relief at source? Or any other options?

To come back to the OP's question.  I don't think there's any rule that they can't do both, but they are under no obligation to do so and it will probably cause them a load of admin hassle and potentially break IT systems so I wouldn't be surprised if they say no.

YOU can make additional contributions yourself, which would then entitle you to make a claim to HMRC for the difference (for the PAYE element, not the NI element).

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:50 am
Posts: 3723
Free Member
 

Wait until they get into the over £100K bracket and start losing their tax allowance

Yeah, everyone i know in that bracket is just dumping it into their pension and waiting till they're 55 to drawdown their pension tax free and pay off the mortgage.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:56 am
juanking and juanking reacted
Posts: 5055
Free Member
 

Sorry should have said my base salary is around £35k the rest is made of allowance and overtime etc

I work a lot of hours and due to my shifts and having a baby and toddler my partner is unable to work

If we were both working full time earning NMW we would be significantly better off due to the way tax works

That is irrelevant of whether you're in Scotland or England...

So crack on - go find a lower paid job AND get your OH out working.  Sunak & Co have been talking about 'slackers' 🙂

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:56 am
Posts: 5055
Free Member
 

Yeah, everyone i know in that bracket is just dumping it into their pension and waiting till they’re 55 to drawdown their pension tax free and pay off the mortgage.

Not the most sensible idea, using up the tax-free allowance like that - likely means paying higher levels of Income Tax through their retirement (especially once their State Pension kicks in).

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 10:00 am
 Aidy
Posts: 2941
Free Member
 

By the way, the sacrifice on the car and bike also affects the amount the company pay into your pension

That's not how it works in any company I'm familiar with.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 10:05 am
Posts: 3636
Free Member
 

Must be a lot tough life even with the schools, hospitals and other public services up here being in such good shape

Source: trust me, bro!

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 10:06 am
Posts: 12482
Free Member
 

Not the most sensible idea, using up the tax-free allowance like that

Maybe not but I get the house extension that I really wanted when 56 rather than missing out on it for 11 years by keeping my tax free money with the added point of "could always be dead by then".

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 10:26 am
Posts: 1000
Full Member
 

You could always set up another private pension outside of the work one. You get 20% credit on payments in. If it is higher rate tax you are saving then you will need to file self assessment tax return to claim back the rest. Not as efficient on NI I believe, but there you go.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 10:32 am
Posts: 9093
Full Member
 

@Aidy, it does in ours - we've an average salary pension scheme (Higher Ed), so based on gross salary after deduction of benefits. It's too big a hit given around 23% is paid in on top of my contributions.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 11:01 am
Posts: 9539
Free Member
 

Yeah, everyone i know in that bracket is just dumping it into their pension and waiting till they’re 55 to drawdown their pension tax free and pay off the mortgage.

If you're in the 100 to 125 bracket then fair enough. But if you're approaching 150 then the best option is to alternate. Use pension conts one year to reduce your taxable to a ton, then next year take the full 150. That way you pay 50% marginal on that £50k every two years rather than 60 % marginal on £25k every year.

And also, you've probably paid off the mortgage already if you're earning that much.

Not the most sensible idea, using up the tax-free allowance like that – likely means paying higher levels of Income Tax through their retirement (especially once their State Pension kicks in).

Agreed

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 11:35 am
juanking and juanking reacted
Posts: 15907
Free Member
 

I'm surprised the organisation let you sail so close to the minimum wage by taking on your last SS.

Also when you give up your SS you are going to still incur significant costs for the following tax year.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 12:15 pm
Posts: 3002
Full Member
 

I’m surprised the organisation let you sail so close to the minimum wage by taking on your last SS

Its not up to them to give you financial advice - the rules are, you cannot salary sacrifice so much that it takes you under minimum wage, thats it. So if you want a bike to work, increase pension etc, fine, your choice, so long as you dont breach that requirement. The OP has now bust that figure, so they need to fix it.

Its black and white, and not the employers job to decide what shade of grey is right for the employee.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 12:21 pm
 5lab
Posts: 7921
Free Member
 

OP : the minimum wage is £11.44. The 40% tax rate kicks in at £43,663 in scotland. You have to work 3816 hours a year to start clipping, which is 73 hours a week or 10.5 hours a day with zero days off per week (assuming your holidays get paid with all your overtime included), or 12 hours a day on a 6 day week. Are you really hitting that number of hours?

And also, you’ve probably paid off the mortgage already if you’re earning that much.

nice one. 100k is £5,700 per month, a good wage. a 3 bed semi round here is £600k (ish) - even a 30 year mortgage is more than half your take-home pay at current interest rates (£3,200 per month)

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 12:31 pm
Posts: 12507
Free Member
 

Any care to place a bet on whether the bike on salary sacrifice has ever been used to you know... Cycle2Work

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 12:33 pm
Posts: 931
Free Member
 

There's an awful lot of people on here not understanding how salary sacrifice works.  OP already said he's on 35K plus OT etc.  he's used salary sacrifice to make sure he doesn't hit the 50% marginal tax rate at £43K which applies in Scotland and to minimise his tax.  The amount of salary sacrifice he's taken has reduced his hourly rate from approx £18 per hour to below the new minimum wage of approx £11 which is not allowed hence employer mucking around with his pension contributions as that's the only salary sacrifice that isn't fixed.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 12:54 pm
Posts: 9539
Free Member
 

nice one. 100k is £5,700 per month, a good wage. a 3 bed semi round here is £600k (ish) – even a 30 year mortgage is more than half your take-home pay at current interest rates (£3,200 per month)

I don't have the details on the figures behind your calculation, but I'm not sure the front figures stack up.  What LTV are you assuming? And why 30 years for someone on £100k PA?

Most people on £100k will not be at the beginning of their earning, and house buying journey will they? Fair enough, I don't have a clue about dahn sarf,  but there's vanishingly small people around here on £100k starting off a £600k purchase in the ~90-100% LTV area.  Most people on £100k are likely to have bought a house ages ago.

Not that it's really of huge importance, so perhaps I should just shut up about it. 🙂

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 1:02 pm
 poly
Posts: 8699
Free Member
 

@Aidy, it does in ours – we’ve an average salary pension scheme (Higher Ed), so based on gross salary after deduction of benefits. It’s too big a hit given around 23% is paid in on top of my contributions.

you on a defined benefit rather than a defined contribution scheme?  I think you may be right the DB schemes often calculate AFTER any other salary sacrifices have been made.  For defined contributions it would be unusual if the employer contribution (say 5%) was based on salary after other sacrifices rather than contractual salary.

am I right in thinking that your contribution to DB schemes is deducted from your pay after NI though not through salary sacrifice so not directly comparable to the OP?

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 1:11 pm
 5lab
Posts: 7921
Free Member
 

I don’t have the details on the figures behind your calculation, but I’m not sure the front figures stack up. What LTV are you assuming? And why 30 years for someone on £100k PA?

Most people on £100k will not be at the beginning of their earning, and house buying journey will they? Fair enough, I don’t have a clue about dahn sarf, but there’s vanishingly small people around here on £100k starting off a £600k purchase in the ~90-100% LTV area. Most people on £100k are likely to have bought a house ages ago.

Not that it’s really of huge importance, so perhaps I should just shut up about it.

its not too difficult to end up on a 6 figure salary in London at the age of 30 - software devs are on that kind of money, as are doctors and a bunch of other professions. At that age you're unlikely to have a significant deposit. The figures I threw up were for a 100% mortgage but even if you chop 20% off all the numbers you would still end up on monthly payments of £2,500 per month, on a 30 year mortgage. And why 30 years? because if you have a shorter term the payments are even more unaffordable. At that rate you'd have to spend ~half of a six figure salary from 30 till 60 to be able to be mortgage free.

We live in a london commuter village and I know a reasonable number of folks who are on 6 figure salaries, mostly in their late 30s or early 40s. Nearly all of them have very large mortgages. My point with the calcs was just to show that a good salary does not mean your house is paid for.

Things are more expensive in the south, and wages are appropriately higher, so people get taxed more, as a proportion of their income, than those up north living a similar lifestyle. Its a form of weath distribution, and is likely needed to balance out everything

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 1:50 pm
Posts: 9539
Free Member
 

Righto. I hear you.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 1:56 pm
Posts: 220
Free Member
Topic starter
 

I’m confused, you drop below NMW but also earn above £43k, how many hours a week do you work?!

My salary sacrifices has brought my base wage below NMW. My allowances and overtime brings this back up to over £43k

Does it really?

Yes it does, especially when I am doing overtime knowing half the money is goings in Tax and NI before I even receive it.

If I new NMW was £43k I’d have changed my job a while ago!

I dont think you have read the OP fully or I have not explained it clearly enough

Something doesn’t stack up here, I think there’s a misunderstanding.

I don't think you have read the OP fully or I have not explained it clear enough

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 2:11 pm
Posts: 220
Free Member
Topic starter
 

Says a Tory voter who only earns the Minimum Wage.

I don't vote

I guess if:

£1.5k a month salary sacrifice lease car

(Maybe his work pay most of it as a company car allowance)

AND £400 per month paying off a £7k bike on C2W

AND £600 per month pension contributions.

That could take our poor violated OP below NMW. Must be a lot tough life even with the schools, hospitals and other public services up here being in such good shape

My base is £35k which it's calculated from. I salary sacrifice around £12k a year between all the benefits so your figures are way off.

National Minimum Wage = @£20100 annually.

So are you putting £23k+ into pension, car and c2w?

Or do you have a low base salary with allowances for shift, or bonuses or similar?

Yes you are correct with the low base salary and extras.

Well this is going well for you OP 🤣

The title is Tax/salary sacrifice advise but the majority of people that have replied don't even know what salary sacrifice is

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 2:20 pm
Posts: 7114
Full Member
 

The title is Tax/salary sacrifice advise but the majority of people that have replied don’t even know what salary sacrifice is

*advice

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 2:31 pm
Posts: 220
Free Member
Topic starter
 

You’ve a car & a bike, sounds like you’re not prioritising your pension anyway.

I balanced them all out keeping within the salary sacrifice rules but now my pension is getting affected as it's the easiest target for my employer

What the OP is alluding to is real although rather extreme in their case due to the combination of high pension contributions and whatever they are sacrificing for the car plus bike schemes. That is salary sacrifice so for the purposes of minimum wage calculations is taken off the gross figure. The OPs gross salary minus the salary takes their net gross salary below the minimum wage calls.

This was a reason given to us for not wanting to do an EV car salary sacrifice scheme as it wouldnt’ be available to lower earners as it would take them below the NMW. Tosh of course, HR just didnt want to administrate it and were looking for excuses.

OP, are the allowances contractural, if not they may not contribute to your salary for NMW purposes.

And yes paying over 50% tax on £43k is disgusting despite what many here think. Instead of dealing with the real cost of living issues governments just hammer middle earners time and time again.

Thank you for the genuine advise, I believe the allowances are contractual as they are mention in current job adverts but how do confirm this?

I know plenty of very well off people doing there best to pay as little tax as possible, so I won’t jump on him for that

But yes I don’t understand how you can be falling into the higher rate tax band and earning minium wage….

I am definitely not well off but I can see why you might think that as I choose not to include my whole family situation

Base salary approx £35k, £12k of salary sacrifice is brining me below NMW. Then overtime and allowances are bringing me about the higher tax band.

Whereas another view is that it is disgusting that some people earn £100K a year while other earn £20K a year with none working any harder than the other but the £100K person just having been more fortunate in life.

Take the amount of tax you pay out of it and just look at net income and see if you feel better. i.e. £100K person gets around £60K, £20K person gets around £20K. £60K person still doing alright aren’t they…

I think in your example the majority of the time the person earning £100k is working harder or has worked harder to get there than the person earning £20k though obviously some have just been more fortunate in life.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 2:32 pm
Posts: 5746
Free Member
 

We have a very complex tax system and some odd and painful addional tax bands.   If Scotland is like England just wait until the taxable salary hits £60k and the op starts paying additional rate income tax to repay the child benefit on those toddlers.   I've been in a 70% income tax band for a while,  just got out of it but now in 55% band....yep, pension contributions seem very attractive.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 2:46 pm
Posts: 220
Free Member
Topic starter
 

This is how it works OP – you’ve obviously maxed out your salary sacrifice to a big extent – well done.

By the way, the sacrifice on the car and bike also affects the amount the company pay into your pension, one of the big reason’s I’ve not got myself a nice shiney EV ay £700 a month on our scheme – that’s a massive amount of pension (over £150 a month in my case) that my employer wouldn’t be contributing.

One thing is certain, you’re now in the 40$ bracket, tough shoot. that’s how it works – you’ve maxed out your salary sacrifices.

You have made me double check and my company calculates it on my base salary which is good but obviously by paying me allowance instead of higher wage they don't need to pay pension contributions on that part

to answer your original question. Some types of payment count, some do not. You’d be better placed checking the .gov.uk site than asking here with vague questions. One thing to be aware is the NMW is determined on your pay period (eg monthly) not annually and so some low basic very high commission people paid quarterly or annual bonus can trip over these sort of issues too.

you’ll find it difficult to get people to feel much sympathy for someone maximising their salary sacrifices to avoid tax, who has discovered some limitations on it.

Thanks for the genuine reply I have searched but could not find anything on what payment types count so I have asked on hear,

I am not looking for sympathy but I do feel it's treated so differently having 1 parent working lots of hours Vs 2 working parents

To come back to the OP’s question. I don’t think there’s any rule that they can’t do both, but they are under no obligation to do so and it will probably cause them a load of admin hassle and potentially break IT systems so I wouldn’t be surprised if they say no.

YOU can make additional contributions yourself, which would then entitle you to make a claim to HMRC for the difference (for the PAYE element, not the NI element).

Would me setting up myself be any less tax efficient than my employer doing it?

You could always set up another private pension outside of the work one. You get 20% credit on payments in. If it is higher rate tax you are saving then you will need to file self assessment tax return to claim back the rest. Not as efficient on NI I believe, but there you go.

Thanks for the genuine advise, I am going to research this route but not sure I want to go through then hassle of a tax return.

I’m surprised the organisation let you sail so close to the minimum wage by taking on your last SS.

Also when you give up your SS you are going to still incur significant costs for the following tax year.

Its not up to them to give you financial advice – the rules are, you cannot salary sacrifice so much that it takes you under minimum wage, thats it. So if you want a bike to work, increase pension etc, fine, your choice, so long as you dont breach that requirement. The OP has now bust that figure, so they need to fix it.

Its black and white, and not the employers job to decide what shade of grey is right for the employee.

I believe they let you get so close as the more you salary sacrifice the more money the company saves in employer NI but I could be wrong about this

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 2:49 pm
davros and davros reacted
Posts: 220
Free Member
Topic starter
 

This is how it works OP – you’ve obviously maxed out your salary sacrifice to a big extent – well done.

By the way, the sacrifice on the car and bike also affects the amount the company pay into your pension, one of the big reason’s I’ve not got myself a nice shiney EV ay £700 a month on our scheme – that’s a massive amount of pension (over £150 a month in my case) that my employer wouldn’t be contributing.

One thing is certain, you’re now in the 40$ bracket, tough shoot. that’s how it works – you’ve maxed out your salary sacrifices.

You have made me double check and my company calculates it on my base salary which is good but obviously by paying me allowance instead of higher wage they don't need to pay pension contributions on that part

to answer your original question. Some types of payment count, some do not. You’d be better placed checking the .gov.uk site than asking here with vague questions. One thing to be aware is the NMW is determined on your pay period (eg monthly) not annually and so some low basic very high commission people paid quarterly or annual bonus can trip over these sort of issues too.

you’ll find it difficult to get people to feel much sympathy for someone maximising their salary sacrifices to avoid tax, who has discovered some limitations on it.

Thanks for the genuine reply I have searched but could not find anything on what payment types count so I have asked on hear,

I am not looking for sympathy but I do feel it's treated so differently having 1 parent working lots of hours Vs 2 working parents

To come back to the OP’s question. I don’t think there’s any rule that they can’t do both, but they are under no obligation to do so and it will probably cause them a load of admin hassle and potentially break IT systems so I wouldn’t be surprised if they say no.

YOU can make additional contributions yourself, which would then entitle you to make a claim to HMRC for the difference (for the PAYE element, not the NI element).

Would me setting up myself be any less tax efficient than my employer doing it?

You could always set up another private pension outside of the work one. You get 20% credit on payments in. If it is higher rate tax you are saving then you will need to file self assessment tax return to claim back the rest. Not as efficient on NI I believe, but there you go.

Thanks for the genuine advise, I am going to research this route but not sure I want to go through then hassle of a tax return.

I’m surprised the organisation let you sail so close to the minimum wage by taking on your last SS.

Also when you give up your SS you are going to still incur significant costs for the following tax year.

Its not up to them to give you financial advice – the rules are, you cannot salary sacrifice so much that it takes you under minimum wage, thats it. So if you want a bike to work, increase pension etc, fine, your choice, so long as you dont breach that requirement. The OP has now bust that figure, so they need to fix it.

Its black and white, and not the employers job to decide what shade of grey is right for the employee.

I believe they let you get so close as the more you salary sacrifice the more money the company saves in employer NI but I could be wrong about this

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 2:50 pm
Posts: 1000
Full Member
 

but not sure I want to go through then hassle of a tax return.

It is only a hassle when you owe them money! If they owed me I would be cheerfully doing it on the 6th April every year. If your main income is from a single employment it is a doddle anyway.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 3:05 pm
Posts: 2880
Full Member
 

my pension is getting affected as it’s the easiest target for my employer

if you’re concerned about your employer nibbling away at your pension pot as what happened with BHS then you can arrange a transfer each year to take your pension balance and sweep it into your SIPP [assuming DC pension, not DB) which is under your control. Most at risk that way is one years’ contributions.

Secondly, if you drop your pension contributions down to the minimal amount to receive the biggest employer match contribution. You can then pay the excess into your SIPP.

Automatically get your 20% back each month and tax return each year to get your additional rate back. You’ll receive this as cash so can put it into your SS ISA so it’s not locked away ‘till State retirement age.

Despite what many on here say, I would not feel bad at all about making your tax contributions as efficient as possible- you need to look after your family first and foremost. No one else has their best interests in mind.

The govt. have plenty money; only the current lot chose to wang it all to their mates instead of funding essential services.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 3:16 pm
Posts: 15907
Free Member
 

Fair play to OP for maximising his tax situation, I couldnt be bothered with all that work.

How much impact is all this salary sacrifice having on your total pension pot though? Correct me if I am wrong but pension contributions are after Salary Sacrifice salary deduction ie your pension contributions will be lower, as will your employers (if they contribute)

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 3:29 pm
 5lab
Posts: 7921
Free Member
 

OP - another option is to pay into a SIPP (private pension) outside of salary sacrifice. You will get all the tax back, but not the national insurance (which is the difference to doing it in salary sacrifice).

scotland has more odd rates of tax than the rest of the UK does - see

[img] [/img]

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 3:55 pm
 poly
Posts: 8699
Free Member
 

If Scotland is like England just wait until the taxable salary hits £60k and the op starts paying additional rate income tax to repay the child benefit on those toddlers.

If he hits that threshold using allowances having salary sacrificed down to the NMW he's doing something impressive!

Thanks for the genuine reply I have searched but could not find anything on what payment types count so I have asked on hear,

In fairness though you've been a bit cagey about the allowances so anyone here with the facts has to guess!  So what you are looking for is probably here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/calculating-the-minimum-wage/calculating-the-minimum-wage but you are going to need to do quite a bit of reading and thinking to work out what applies to you.  Thats the reality of tax avoidance - if you want the lazy option you'll pay slightly more tax!

I am not looking for sympathy but I do feel it’s treated so differently having 1 parent working lots of hours Vs 2 working parents

And yet you don't vote!  Do you know your wife can potentially transfer some tax allowance to you?

Would me setting up myself be any less tax efficient than my employer doing it?

The most tax efficient way is for your employer to do it via salary sacrifice.  After that it makes no difference if they do it or you do it, but you'll have to put in some more admin effort.

but not sure I want to go through then hassle of a tax return.

then I think your claim you feel violated (perhaps you need a dictionary!) is exagerated.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 9:15 pm
 irc
Posts: 5188
Free Member
 

"And yet you don’t vote! Do you know your wife can potentially transfer some tax allowance to you?"

Only if you are not a higher rate taxpayer.

I was also told by the taxman by phone that even though I had made pension payments to reclaim my higher rate tax I was still no longer eligible for the married couple tax transfer.

So the effect of the Scottish tax thresholds is that someone whose wife is a non taxpayer who earns £1000 over the £43k threshold loses out of that £1000 - £520 tax and  NI plus £200 by losing the marriage allowance - £720.

https://www.gov.uk/marriage-allowance

Which is why I make a pension payment to avoid  higher rate tax.

https://www.brewin.co.uk/insights/how-pensions-lower-your-tax-bill-scotland

For info of OP I have not had to do a tax return to reclaim the higher rate tax after paying into a pension. I am on PAYE.  Each year in February I work out roughly how far over the £43k I will be.  then make a single payment of the appropriate amount. Then I phone the inland revenue and tell them.  They sort it out. Either by tax code adjustments  or a rebate payment.

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 10:01 pm
Posts: 220
Free Member
Topic starter
 

@poly That link has answered one of my original questions, allowances do not count towards minimum wage. I was looking at salary sacrifice information when I should of been looking at the minimum wage section. Thanks again for the help.

Looks like my options are setup my own pension where I will automatically get 20% tax relief and get more if I do tax return or I could pay into a pension in my partner's name and receive 20% relief even though she isn't working which might be beneficial when the day comes to retire

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 11:22 pm
Posts: 220
Free Member
Topic starter
 

@irc looks like I will be receiving a letter from the tax man reclaiming the marriage tax allowance,

 
Posted : 26/04/2024 11:27 pm
Posts: 5746
Free Member
 

Your non working spouse only gets tax relief on pension payments upto £2880 iirc. Although again Scotland may be different to England.

 
Posted : 27/04/2024 8:08 am
 irc
Posts: 5188
Free Member
 

"or I could pay into a pension in my partner’s name and receive 20% relief even though she isn’t working which might be beneficial when the day comes to retire"

I have done this. The advantage being that as my wife has no other income every year's £2800 is boosted to £3500. £700 free cash. Then whereas when I take my pension I will pay tax on any withdrawals (after the 25% tax free lump sum) she can withdraw £12k a year tax free if she does it in the tax years before she starts claiming her old age pension.

 
Posted : 27/04/2024 3:17 pm
Posts: 649
Free Member
 

If you’re in the 100 to 125 bracket then fair enough. But if you’re approaching 150 then the best option is to alternate.

Beat option is to go four days a week. Time is the biggest luxury there is.

 
Posted : 28/04/2024 8:34 am

6 DAYS LEFT
We are currently at 95% of our target!