You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Interesting move in the budget, looks to be supported by the opposition also.
Personally I would like to see a lot more regulation of all processed food contents, taxation doesn't really seem the right tool for the job, almost like saying we don't give a shit as long as we get a cut of the action.
ps. I hope this can be a discussion on food regulation rather than party politics.
Makes Fever Tree even more exclusive so plenty will be happy.
There aren't many causes I'd actually be prepared to die for. Actually theres just the one.....
I don't see how you can regulate out sugar, are you going to ban cakes? 😉 Added salts etc. sure but even then a lot of foods are moving away from adding a lot, its just people don't build a balanced meal from available produce. What they should do is reduce vat on healthy alternatives, bottled water should be cheap be often in smaller shops its not much cheaper than pop.
IMO it perhaps isn't the more elegant of solutions, but it's a decent/easy enough one.
We have a national cash-flow problem, more tax revenue will help it, well, it won't hurt anyway.
We have an obesity problem - if presented with two bottles of pop, the one with 15g of sugar in it for £1.50 or the one with no sugar in it for £1 hopefully, some at least will take the sugar free one.
It's simple to understand and simple to impose - the one downside I can see is that there's a huge mark-up on fizzy drinks, it's possible the makers could reduce the cost of the sugar versions of their products (citing lower production costs etc) to achieve parity in their pricing - to what end, other than 'evil' I don't know, but they could.
Can't really see it making a lot of difference, people will just pay the extra or pop to wherever and get a 2 litre bottle for a pound.
We have an obesity problem
The problem is a lot more complicated than fizzy drinks.
Much of the public health advice given for the past 40 years (maybe longer) has been tainted by corporate lobbying. Some of the myths are now starting to be broken down, but what is needed is proper regulation on how food is labelled and presented to the public, and watchdogs with teeth that can damage companies that deceive.
Doubt it will affect much really coz people in the West are loaded and can afford to buy sugary drinks even at higher price unlike those in the Mexico (where people are poor and sugar tax has impact on them or their spending habit).
It's more to do with self control and education. 🙄
Either way someone has just increased his personal value and profile ... the emergent of another "expert".
Another tax on the poor?
Do pubs still charge silly money for soft drinks on tap? Forward thinkers?!
get a 2 litre bottle for a pound.
The tax is apparently 50p on a 2 l bottle.
Basically because of other people having no self control I now have to pay more money for my sugary fix.
Great.
Will only affect me about once a month when I need that Irn Bru! (or lucosade if it's a really bad hangover) Just hope they don't start taxing the sugary coating on ibuprofen too!
Hangovers about to get as expensive as the night before!
I agree that whatever taxes exist on healthy foods should be reduced (if they, in fact, exist), but I do not agree at all with this:
.bottled water should be cheap be often in smaller shops its not much cheaper than pop
I would love to see bottled water banned altogether, or at least seriously curtailed in its marketing, on the basis of the amount of disposable plastic used to dispense what you can get in equal measure from a tap.
[url= http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/san-francisco-bans-sale-plastic-water-bottles-climate-change ]San Francisco has the right idea[/url].
Will definitely affect my non-alcoholic malt drinking habit though ... arrghhh ... apparently high in sugar.
But then how many of you kids drink non-alcoholic malt drink?
🙄
It's bullshit to appease a lobby group somewhere or seem like they're doing something. Milk and Pure Fruit Juice are both exempt but both can be as bad or worse than fizzy drinks.
It's a good thing to reduce sugar but this tax is a missed opportunity to point out hidden sugar in other foods such as the low fat industry where the fat is swapped for more sugar.
I would love to see bottled water banned altogether, or at least seriously curtailed in its marketing, on the basis of the amount of disposable plastic used to dispense what you can get in equal measure from a tap.
+1
Never understood why you would buy bottled water.
I thought you lived in Thailand, chewk?
Basically because of other people having no self control I now have to pay more money for my sugary fix.
We're already paying billions to treat their medical conditions via the NHS, so anything which might reduce that is a good thing.
nedrapier - Member
I thought you lived in Thailand, chewk?
Why? Because I drink non-alcoholic malt drink?
I lived in the paradise city called the Toon (NE or the GeordieLand) where bingo wings are plentiful and the women would deck you anytime if you try to argue with them ... 😯
I mean my main supplier of non-alcoholic malt drink is the very large Tesco supermarket.
I drink almost every brand of non-alcoholic malt drink there is on earth.
Ask me a non-alcoholic malt ... my favourite at the moment is Maltina from Nigeria. 😆 My local Iceland Supermarket has run out of Grace Mighty Malt (this one has a better aromatic taste so slightly ahead of the rest and price is good too at 50p/bottle).
Do pubs still charge silly money for soft drinks on tap? Forward thinkers?!
Remember the thread/social media backlash/trip adviser furor about the woman who complained that her "hot water fruit infusion" (hot water + slice of lemon) was too expensive in a tea room?
The cost of giving you a pint of coke is ~15p or whatever it is, the costof giving you a galss to drink it from, a barman to serve it, a table clearer to pick it up again and clean the table, paying the rent and bills is what makes a pint of coke cost £1.50 (or whatever it is in your local).
A Pint of beer costs about 16p too. Duty takes it to about 50p. And the overheads on serving a pint and VAT is the rest (i.e. all bar 50p is the same costs whether it's a pint of Beer or a glass of tap water).
I see a tax loophole....
Never understood why you would buy bottled water.
Because it's convenient, thirst quenching and much more healthy than fizzy drinks? I don't always have the forethought to leave home with a bottle of tap water in my pocket unfortunately.
Because it's convenient, thirst quenching and much more healthy than fizzy drinks? I don't always have the forethought to leave home with a bottle of tap water in my pocket unfortunately.
There is that, but quite a few cities have managed to ban it.
Be interesting to see whether sales of other (less healthy?) drinks went up in proportion.
Simple solution would be for shops to simply sell empty sports bottles and cities to install drinking water fountains.
Seems like a good idea to me. It's still cheap enough, but it'll be a nice little earner for the treasury whilst still being an optional tax.
And we'll all benefit from that. Or at least we should.
on the basis of the amount of disposable plastic used to dispense
25¢ deposit on a bottle here
although, tbf, most bottled water bottles are just going to be recycled in to fleece or something. only glass and old type plastic coke bottles that will be refilled.
not just sugar that needs something doing to it. salt too.
tricky with irn bru though, which is ace in full fat sugar form. coke etc. with artificial sweeteners just tastes a bit odd, but still tastes pretty much like its sugary version. sugar free irn bru tastes really disgusting.
Well, I welcome it. If nothing else, it might mean there's a greater choice of sugar-free options beyond Diet Coke and water in service stations and corner shops.
Definitely a good thing
Obesity is a huge drain on the NHS, and a big rush multiplier for cancer
Real shame they missed an opportunity again to force traffic light labeling as this would help highlight hire unhealthy many low fat options are
As above, it probably won't be enough of a pricc rise to stop people buying it.
However, from a health perspective the alternatives - diet - drinks have been proven to be pretty bad for you with regular ingestion, I refer to aspartinine, sorbitol etc.
Aren't we solving one problem but creating another, basically on the assumption that the other problem is currently much smaller that the former problem?
Why be so negative. It could be a win win situation albeit no where as good as it could be. If it reduces sugar consumption then great. If it doesn't it increase revenue. Great as well. No idea what it will be but why not a quid a litre? That would certainly enhance one of my options.
However, from a health perspective the alternatives - diet - drinks have been proven to be pretty bad for you with regular ingestion, I refer to aspartinine, sorbitol etc.
Only if your definition of proven is "alleged".
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/the-truth-about-aspartame.aspx
Useful link, I won't let it prevent me using diet tonic in my gin...
Can't be a tax on the poor, surely they would drink water.
Nobody says it but what these kind of sugar taxes imply is that the problem is mainly with poor thick people. They're not capable of making rational, informed decisions so they need poking with financial disincentives, which are largely irrelevent for the well off.
It helps to prevent these peole from crowding up busy trains, from cluttering up roads in London and it defends them for their insatiable lust to consume alcohol and pop.
Is this a tax on my energy drinks? Will gels be taxed as sugary drinks too?
Rubber_Buccaneer - Member
Is this a tax on my energy drinks? Will gels be taxed as sugary drinks too?
Yes, all drinks apart from pure fruit juice and milk drink ...
I think energy drink has much more sugar than any other drinks so you are screwed! Screwed! 😆
Thank gels are classed as food. This new drink tax wont do anything to stop folks drinking them, just less money for the household bills
mrsfry - Member
Thank gels are classed as food. This new drink tax wont do anything to stop folks drinking them, just less money for the household bills
Sugary food will be the next target I am sure. 😮
ah well, bye bye coke, hello
[img] 
[/img]
At what point will they put higher taxes on sugar? I don't mean sugar in stuff, but sugar itself.
Or how about in the first instance we stop subsidising its production...
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/sugar-beet-claiming-payments
Seems misguided just to aim it at drinks.
Has anyone thought retailers might put up all soft drink prices, to unify pricing, and then just make more % margin on "diet" or low/no sugar versions? If I was in the food & drink retail game, that's what I'd be looking at right now!! If that happens, the disincentive to consumers becomes reduced......
Nobody says it but what these kind of sugar taxes imply is that the problem is mainly with poor thick people. They're not capable of making rational, informed decisions so they need poking with financial disincentives, which are largely irrelevent for the well off.
Ermmmmmm! Ok. 😯
Nothing happens till 2018 so drink yourselfs silly
This kind of thing pisses me right off. I drink the odd can of coke kids have the odd sugary drink. Why do we all have to suffer because folk should move more and eat/drink less?
You have the odd one and you're suffering. Good job you don't have them regular you'll be inconsolable.
Headline diversionary tactic diverting attention away from the detail and small print elsewhere in the budget that is going to #### people over.
If I go to the shop and have to pay more for my cans of coke then yes I'm suffering. I won't have as much money to spend on a greggs lunch.
Byker Dummies?
I hope this is the start of the war on "added sugar" and is extended beyond drinks
10% of the NHS budget is spent on diabetes and its effects and 1 in 5 kids leaving primary school are obese .... 1 in 5 !! 😯
One day excess sugar consumption may will be seen like smoking is now.
People in office doorways stuffing down buns... mars bars and walnut whips sold only over the counter from a cabinet that's behind shutters
Why the downer on bottled water?
Theres is no more disposable plastic required to bottle water than any other drink and what realistic alternatives are there?
I hope this is the start of the war on "added sugar" and is extended beyond drinks
Its not just sugar is it though, our economy relies on distracting folk from they're otherwise shit life with cheap food, shiny cars and pink and blue TV.
Theres is no more disposable plastic required to bottle water than any other drink and what realistic alternatives are there?
A tap.
Realistic?
Well I've just managed to get some from a tap.
Every shopping street beach or Park out in Oz has drinking taps and bottle filling points. I reckon most people who would buy a bottle of water now carry a reusable bottle. Best idea in the world, ban bottled water in offices and meetings so easy to do taps and glasses.
There's a big promotion around bristol for using taps. Might seem obvious to some but others must need a prod. Part of the green capital legacy was the installation of drinking water taps around the city to refill bottles.
Exactly.
Sugar tax is having a positive impact in Mexico, so I would say it's worth a go.
Sounds like a great idea but wont replace all circumstances when being able to get a bottle of clean water is very handy.
This kind of thing pisses me right off. I drink the odd can of coke kids have the odd sugary drink. Why do we all have to suffer because folk should move more and eat/drink less?
If the increased tax reduces sugar consumption everyone will benefit.
However, from a health perspective the alternatives - diet - drinks have been proven to be pretty bad for you with regular ingestion, I refer to aspartinine, sorbitol etc.
Aren't we solving one problem but creating another, basically on the assumption that the other problem is currently much smaller that the former problem?
That is simply not true, sweetners are some of the most studied food additives and no one has been able to prove they are bad for you, certainly not as bad as too much sugar
And as Ro5ey says obesity now costs the NHS more than smoking, why shouldn't it be dealt with by tax
However, from a health perspective the alternatives - diet - drinks have been proven to be pretty bad for you with regular ingestion, I refer to aspartinine, sorbitol etc.
Partly because of the prevalence of scare stories and misinformation, Aspartame is one of the single most tested foodstuffs on the planet.
Sorbitol has laxative effects in larger quantities, so that does need to be taken into consideration (ie, great if you've got the opposite problem to start with, not so great if you have IBS).
aside from the science around sweeteners diet drinks aren't the only alternative. I have a pretty sweet tooth so do enjoy a good sugary drink but I reckon I could get by if they just reduced the amount of added sugar. I do look for the lower % sugar when choosing squash and the like and I can't say it makes a noticeable difference to taste.However, from a health perspective the alternatives - diet - drinks have been proven to be pretty bad for you with regular ingestion, I refer to aspartinine, sorbitol etc.
Why the downer on bottled water?
There's also the damage to the environment from delivery - some comes from other countries - crazy really.
Before the 70s we were quite happy with tap water but Perrier got this crazy thing going.
Thing is the producers will be paying the tax, and if they can reduce their overheads they will, so should at least help reduce the amount of sugar in these drinks
[quote=MSP ]However, from a health perspective the alternatives - diet - drinks have been proven to be pretty bad for you with regular ingestion, I refer to aspartinine, sorbitol etc.
Only if your definition of proven is "alleged".
> http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Goodfood/Pages/the-truth-about-aspartame.aspx
br />
Aspartame is hidden away in lots of foods, very difficult for those with PKU like Mrs b. Diet can be controlled but when its hidden in foods makes eating out very hard.
PKU
However, the panel said the ADI did not apply to people with phenylketonuria (PKU) – a rare genetic disorder where the body cannot break down phenylalanine. People who have this condition need to closely monitor their phenylalanine intake.
The EFSA report stated that: "PKU mothers with poorly controlled phenylalanine intake in their diet during pregnancy may give birth to babies with congenital heart diseases, microcephalus and impaired neurological function."
It is worth noting that phenylalanine occurs naturally in many protein-rich foods, such as milk, eggs and meat. Table top sweeteners containing aspartame or aspartame-acesulfame K must be marked with: “contains a source of phenylalanine”.
Its not just sugar is it though, our economy relies on distracting folk from they're otherwise shit life with cheap food, shiny cars and pink and blue TV.
I cant go on, throws himself off bridge! Good bye cruel world ! LoL
mudshark - MemberWhy the downer on bottled water?
There's also the damage to the environment from delivery - some comes from other countries - crazy really.
Before the 70s we were quite happy with tap water but Perrier got this crazy thing going.
I do dislike the idea of bottled water, but in most citys now its difficult to find a drinking water tap without local knowledge. Most public restrooms using mixer taps so id rather not drink luke-warm water, pubs arnt open early, cafes might give me some but I don't typically carry an empty bottle around with me when shopping.
I cant go on, throws himself off bridge! Good bye cruel world ! LoL
Sad thing is lots of people do.
Stato perhaps the push away from sugar drinks and bottled water will create the demand for better facilities. Other places have managed the change.
very difficult for those with PKU like Mrs b
Good point, but it's perfectly safe amongst the general population unless you've got a condition which precludes it (I knew there was one for aspartame but couldn't remember the details; that sounds tough, my sympathies). But that's probably true of many many things we eat, peanuts for example.
Queuing at Asda or Tescos I often notice mothers with huge multibags of crisps, multipacks of small juice drinks etc etc.
It's almost like they think children have the basic right to processed sugar in ALL it's forms. You are never going to change this mindset with any level of tax. It's the 'don't tell me what to do' or 'I know how to raise my kids'. Coke 2lt will still be on promos and if it becomes too expensive? Asda no doubt will have a 2lt cola that will become the same price as the old coke. Win win for the supermarket's.
Any particular reason why not? I appreciate it is convenient to pop into shop, buy something to drink, drink it then chuck the bottle in the bin but it isn't a big effort just take a bottle with you. You can even pre fill it. If you are shopping you'll probably have a bag to carry it. There is a lack of taps though. Also being British asking a cafe or pub to fill a bottle doesn't seem right to me. Something to work on 🙂I don't typically carry an empty bottle around with me when shopping.
Theres also exactly double the amount of people in the world now than 1970, it is a completely different place.
Water on tap sounds great in some circumstances but bottled water is quite an appealing product and if it helps ween people of the other much greater risk of death by diabetes then cost of recycling and an in efficient delivery in the short term is worthwhile.
It may make a bit of a difference, perhaps if a kid walks into a corner shop for a bag or crisps and a drink on the way home from school and see coke at £1 and something a bit healthier at £0.75. I presume at least some would choose the cheaper (healthier) option? Similar when families do the weekly shopping.
It's a small step and wont stop the obesity problem overnight but it could be a start, they could then do the same on other foods making it cheaper to eat healthier food. I don't mean apples compared to deep fried mars bars but some crisps/chocolates have far more calories than others.
It does unfairly penalise diabetics though.
they could then do the same on other foods making it cheaper to eat healthier food
It doesn't cost a lot of money to eat healthy, it's just the way we're bombarded with the unhealthy stuff all the time. I don't think it's just about money.
It does unfairly penalise diabetics though.
In what way?
I don't really get this "carrying a bottle of water around". When did that become a thing? I don't recall ever getting dehydrated doing the shopping.
Water on tap sounds great in some circumstances but bottled water is quite an appealing product and if
Sometimes if we put as much effort into doing good things as we do finding reasons not to, stuff could change a lot quicker.
Edit
I don't really get this "carrying a bottle of water around". When did that become a thing?
Most people don't drink enough water, most consume other liquids (tea, coffee or soft drinks etc) have a bottle with you and you will just drink water, probably more. It's entirely normal across places like Australia, it's a shock when I come back to the UK and don't get a bottle of tap water on the table, or just around any bar. It's a mindset change.
I suppose some people would be worried about looking mean if drinking tap water - either at a restaurant or just around town? We have a lot of water bottles in my house but my wife still buys little bottles of water to take with her for days out, bit annoying....
It doesn't cost a lot of money to eat healthy, it's just the way we're bombarded with the unhealthy stuff all the time. I don't think it's just about money.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying it costs too much to eat healthily. What I mean is adjusting the prince can sway some peoples buying habits. Look at the 5p bag charge, its 5p FFS but it has had a massive impact on how many bags get used and how people shop.
An example would be crisps, there are bags that contain 100 calories and others that contain 250. If the 250 calorie option cost more, people may choose the lower calorie (healthier) option while still eating the bag of crisps that they want. It also gets manufacturers to put more effort into creating lower calorie but tasty options as there will be a bigger market for them?