[Closed] Talk to me about pillar drills!

Look on Ebay for a local Startrite Bantam, Ajax, or Flott.

Go old school solid duty rather than new Chinese rebranded junk.

I have a Startrite in my home workshop that will outlive me and an Ajax at work that has seen decades of abuse and is still like new.

Yes, see if you can find an old refurbed unit rather than some new flimsy unit made from pressed steel

Throat depth. Also important in other subjects, but not applicable here.

Chuck capacity - for both large and small drill bits. Some chucks take a minimum or 5mm, which isnt best for small jobs using thin bits the type of which you need a pillar/bench drill* for, so it doesnt wobble about and snap, but most will accomodate down to sub millimeter sizes.

Variable speed. Many cheaper drills involve the need to change pulley sizes, which involved slackening off the belt, swopping to a larger or smaller pulley then tightening up the system again, which is a real pain. Far better it a twiddly knob.

Depth of cut. Basically how far the chuck travels when you turn the lever. More is obviously better, but with long travel you must have accuracy, and its not uncommon to find cheaper drrils have more run out the further they travel, eg it its only got 50mm and runout can be small, but further, 70-90 the run out is more, so you could at the start of the hole be accurate, but att he end of the travel be a sub mill or more. Usually this is down to price.

Chuck to table/Chuck to base sizes - The distance from chuck to table denotes how big an item you can fit under it. Sometimes if very deep you swing the table out the way and mount it directly onto the stand. So a longer pillar is more preferable to a shorter pillar.

Table - (the thing you sit/clamp the work on) this is mounted directly to the pillar and slides up and down it, secured by a collar and clamp. The best option here is one that adjusts with a rack and pinion via handle. The plain clamped no handle type you need to wiggle about to get it to rise and fall, and this can be a pain trying to center it again, [plus you can be adding in the weight of the workpiece, so can be quite a handful . Try to opt for handle adjust if you can and ignore those that dont.

Motor power - More is better, but usually its about 1/2-3/4-1 hp Obviously the larger is designed for larger bits, usually more associated with metal rather than wood working.

------------
Radial arm drills. This is a different beast entirely. Usually the same capacities only the difference is the entire head unit can slide forward and tilt left or right, allowing you to better drill in at an angle, rather than trying to mount the work piece at the angle, which is probably best with larger or misshapen work pieces.

*
The bench drill is used for drilling holes through materials including a range of woods, plastics and metals. It is normally bolted to a bench so that it cannot be pushed over and that larger pieces of material can be drilled safely. The larger version of the machine drill is called the pillar drill.
I add this bit in before some wag** comes along to say otherwise.

** Did I spell that correctly 😉

We have a Bench mounted Startrite - its probably 35 years old (bought new by my Dad) but has seen fairly light use and is still immaculate.
I also have a floor mounted 'Meddings' which is a little more industrial than the Startrite - i bought it from an MOD disposal auction - it was (and still is) as good as new

I'd look to spend your budget on something good but lightly used.
Otherwise i'd probably look at Record Power if you really want new.

I've a meddings also

No wahalla changing the belt from pulley to pulley tool free.

Great bit of kit weighs heaps needs moved round with the engine crane. Has zero deflection in the Arbor

I'd second the go old go heavy and go mechanical. Although don't buy junk just because it's old. Buy on condition

Fobco also a good name if going second hand.

Great thanks all. Was leaning towards new but given the unanimity of advice here will keep an eye out used too 👍

I have a Meddings bench top and an Elliot Progress floor standing. The Elliot is a beast, and beautifully made. Needs a crane to lift it.

New drills are pants at that price range, as mentioned already. I had a 'Clarke' (catalogue rubbish) branded one for a bit. The runout was horrific and the drive belt would slip under any sort of load.

I replaced it with a gear driven Arboga-Maskiner I got for £80 at an auction. Old and the quill is quite worn, but it's in a different league.

So in a roundabout way, what I'm saying is (echoing everyone else above) I'd get an old one 🙂

Second hand is usually better if you can find a good one. They are really desirable. I spent ages looking and nothing compact came up. I ended up with a new one and it's ok. I struggled to find one that went super slow as that was a feature I wanted. The speed adjust is a bit of a fiddle, it's tool-less and only takes 30 seconds but enough of a pain that I don't always do it. As mentioned, the chuck only goes down to 3mm. I've got a set of 1/4 hex shank bits to get round this. It is definitely lower quality than an industrial one so if I ever come across one I'll replace it but it does the job.

Just be aware that most of the older pillar/pedestal drills mentioned may well be three-phase unless somebody has already fitted it with a single-phase motor or added a VFD.

Buy old and industrial.

I bought a Clarke one years back for polishing etc, but compared to proper industrial drills it was made of cheese.

As mentioned, the chuck only goes down to 3mm. I’ve got a set of 1/4 hex shank bits to get round this

Pin vices are your friend (cheaper versions are available)

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/vices/0539952/

Pin vices are your friend (cheaper versions are available)

Yeah, I tried those first. The concentricity wasn't great. The hex shank bits are much better. Pretty cheap too.

Got my eye on a couple of old, heavy looking ones - trying to source single phase to save messing about with inverters and the like. I do have a storage unit with 3 phase, but really wanted this for at home. As they are, unsurprisingly, nearly all collection in person, it’s a bit of a balancing act trying to find a good one within a reasonable distance..

I have a startrite as well, one thing you really need to do is find out what kind and size of chuck your new drill runs especially if you want quick release. Ditto for manuals. No faffing with belts here either, just a case of pulling them from one pulley to the other like at school. Mine is a Mercury, they are all good but some are more industrial than others if you know what I mean. 10 speeds have a planetary gearbox in the quill but don't seem to be too scary if the teardown I saw is to be believed. My 5 speed can be lifted as 2 pieces (head and tailstock)

On three phase, if you find one cheap then I wouldn't discount it, once you add an inverter you get the benefit of variable speed.

Ukworkshop and mig-welding.co.uk are other places worth checking, depending where you are it could be some drive, I had a 3 hour round trip to get mine.

So after a lot of faffing and being outbid a few times on old classics I went for this.

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It’s a Sealey GDM150 - seems decent quality. Not aerospace standard I grant you but more than adequate for me to mess about with. Have already neatly removed a couple of sheared off bolts - plenty more to come 😀

Looks good that👍
Your walls want dusting.

I'm jealous 😆

I'd love a pillar drill.

Now you have pillar drill you will want a vertical mill... <\NeverEnoughTools>

And a lathe.

Just want to add that I have a 'crappy' Clarke branded small bench drill, that I use for woodworking. I've owned it for over 10 years now, and it's had a lot of use, and still going strong. It's accurate enough for my needs, and I'm quite fussy. I doubt I'd want to use it for metalworking, but that's not my thing anyway. It has drilled into aluminium and steel plate ok. I bought it from one of the big sheds; I didn't have much money at that time, and not much space. It was only ever meant to be a 'temporary' solution, but it's done very well, considering it was only £60 or something. If I were to replace it today, I'd go for something like an Axminster Trade, Record Power or similar.

Having used many brands such as Meddings, Startrite etc, I would say that buying a decent one can be a bit of a minefield; unless you really know what you're looking for, and a decent working knowledge of such machines, you could end up with a real dog. Old drills have often had a hard life, and it's about knowing how to service them, and identify any issues. I'd never recommend one to a novice, there's a lot of proper knackered old junk out there. Tool auctions such as the MOD one as mentioned above, can be a much safer bet, as they'll have been checked, but you'll be paying quite a bit more, most likely. At least with a new drill, you'll have a warranty, sales support etc. Old drills can be a real bargain though, especially the larger ones. They're a bit like pianos; the idea is great, until you consider the logistics involved in transporting them, then finding space and setting them up properly. It is sad that many just end up in scrapyards though.

That looks very similar to my Axminster drill...

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/5593/14350047157_7b0c5e3bb1.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/5593/14350047157_7b0c5e3bb1.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/nS4K5a ]Fixing Garden Bench[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

It’s a Sealey GDM150 – seems decent quality

Good that it has a bit of height to it,always handy.
That's a worrying set of shell cases waiting at the side though #WMDworkshop 🙂

Lols - I did edit the photo slightly to remove the pile of ones I’ve already polished up! I bought them to go in my CVRT Sabre, but then I realised they rattle around like a bucket of bolts so have never actually installed them in the ammo racks...

I can’t bring myself to get rid of them though, but i should really as they go for a tenner or so each these days!

About the height - where it is at the moment is not ideal as I have to stand on a (sturdy) chair to use it 😏

That looks very similar to my Axminster drill…

Is that one of their 'Craft' range? They seem a significant step up from the 'Clarke' branded ones like mine.

It’s a Sealey GDM150 – seems decent quality. Not aerospace standard I grant you but more than adequate for me to mess about with

Well, unless you're actually making aircraft, I wouldn't worry! That looks spot on.

This thread has now given me feelings of inadequacy regarding my 'crappy' Clarke pillar drill. 🙁

What set me off down this route was trying to use my mates 50 quid jobbie - it was hopeless - when the handle managed to unscrew itself for the 3rd time was when I decided I had to do better!

No regrets at all so far - drilled out some snapped off screws last night - 2BA’s so only about 5mm diameter - managed to put a 2mm bit straight down the middle of them, then used a small torx bit to unwind - super satisfying!!

I'm using a Startrite for 40 years now, and was 2nd hand when my Dad bought it.

Runs beautifully, original motor, chuck and quill bearings.

If I ever have to replace it, I would head straight to Warco.co.uk for a new machine.

(I have a Warco bench grinder, 30 years old).

@bridges - I wouldn’t worry, you would be surprised at how much some of the Clarke’s can handle! Do wish I had a concrete floored garage for a proper one. 😉

I bought a CDP102B for ~£100 from Machine Mart, it’s been great. One tip to help with accuracy is to use a scissor jack to gently brace the table as that is where most of the flex is. No room for a proper heavy duty one in my shed, but fine for wood working and light duty steel. Not aerospace grade but OK for DIY use 10 times a year.

Managed a lot of 40mm diameter straight holes through 54mm birch plywood with a Forstner bit when I made these last year.

https://flic.kr/p/2j78c81
https://flic.kr/p/2j7aCCj

That looks very similar to my Axminster drill…

Is that one of their ‘Craft’ range? They seem a significant step up from the ‘Clarke’ branded ones like mine.

I think mine is https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-craft-ac315pd-bench-pillar-drill-105106

Or the equivalent when I bought it.

It's OK, the chuck is just held on to the drive shaft with a wedge shaped compression fit which can't take much torque, I tried using a hole saw in some ply and the chuck came off straight away. In the end used an 18V Bosch drill which has far more oomph!

It’s OK, the chuck is just held on to the drive shaft with a wedge shaped compression fit which can’t take much torque, I tried using a hole saw in some ply and the chuck came off straight away. In the end used an 18V Bosch drill which has far more oomph!

You mean Iike most pillar drills.

Morse taper when fitted right perfectly good at the job

I bought them to go in my CVRT Sabre

erm.......I think we need some pics!

Are any of the Clarke ones any good? I want one to sit on a bench. They've got a few models between 2 and 300 quid. Are they still junk at that price?

I live around the corner from a Machine Mart and don't fancy driving across the country to pick up an antique when I'm not sure what I'm looking at.

I bought them to go in my CVRT Sabre, but then I realised they rattle around like a bucket of bolts so have never actually installed them in the ammo racks…

WE NEED PICS!

I bought a £40 FERM from Screwfix about 15 years ago. Cheap but at the time you could buy cheaper.

I wouldn't want to try any precision metal work, but for everything else it's absolutely fine.

I've it bolted to a half-height filing cabinet - solid.

Looking at Screwfix now, looks like you'd need to spend £110-130 for the same level of quality.

Ok! Will post some pics but will do it in another thread to avoid derailing this one. I’m rebuilding one of the final drives at the moment to fix a leaking hub seal. Sorting various things was a big part of the reason for buying the drill.. 😀

Are any of the Clarke ones any good? I want one to sit on a bench. They’ve got a few models between 2 and 300 quid. Are they still junk at that price?

I live around the corner from a Machine Mart and don’t fancy driving across the country to pick up an antique when I’m not sure what I’m looking at.

Well mine is this model, as far as I can see:

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cdp5rb-5-speed-bench-mounted-pillar-dri/

Not sure why it's £10 more than the blue one. But they're essentially Chinese made cheap machines, intended for 'occasional' and light use. They aren't made to particularly exacting tolerances. The plastic guard on mine broke first time I used it, the handles unscrew on a regular basis, I have to check everything's safe before I use it. It has a limited (50mm) drilling depth. It lacks a rack and pinion height adjust mechanism. It's really not great. But it gets the job done, and has served me well for over 10 years. I can't complain for £60. But I am now feeling the need for something better, as the level of my work demands a higher level of accuracy. The runout isn't bad, but then I'm using it on wood, at relatively shallow depths. A bit more power, better accuracy and more depth would be good.

These Axminster and Machine Mart drills look practically identical. More powerful motor on the MachineMart version, and the Axminster one is nearly £90 more. For just a little more than the Axminster drill, this looks like a better machine:

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cdp452b-550w-16-speed-bench-mounted-dri/

Of course, it's all about what's in stock. This is probably the very worst time to be buying tools, as CV has seen a massive reduction in manufacturing, shipping and therefore stock, so prices are at maximum. I wouldn't call any of the Clarke stuff 'junk'; some of it might not be brilliant, but it's useable. And I think you're wise to be cautious about buying something second hand without experience; I bought a lathe a few years ago, and it was basically a pile of scrap. Might have been great once, but the amount of work involved in getting it just to run, let alone run well, just wasn't worth it.

Actually I have too much on today to go through the rigmarole of posting a load of pics 😀 but here’s a couple to be going on with. The final drive I am fixing is the bit that takes power from the gearbox to the tracks via sprockets. It has had a leak from the inside hub seal for the last couple of years and I finally got fed up of it. The drive itself weighs 70-80kg and is a really awkward shape so a real pain of a job, but not technically difficult really.

The seal that needed replacing cost £5!

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Brilliant,I thought you were joking about the CVRT,I mean..like who has one of those in their garage? Excellent boat storage system going on there 🤣🙃👍

Lol! That must be handy for the run down to the Asda superstore. I bet nobody bothers parking too close to you! But how many gallons to the mile does it do??

I bought a lathe a few years ago, and it was basically a pile of scrap. Might have been great once, but the amount of work involved in getting it just to run, let alone run well, just wasn’t worth it.

Was it from machine mart as well ? I nearly bought a small lathe there (well big for Machine mart) but on inspection it was junk and basically scrap unless your intention was to turn large metal into small metal.

Having seen a bit more detail about the type of work the OP might be doing with the drill and the obvious fact that he has a fair bit of engineering ability, something I have thought of doing is buying a good quality Mag-drill and a drill vice and then simply fabricating a table to hold the vice with a suitable mounting point for the mag drill. That way you get the versatility of a pillar drill that will also work with broaching bits, and that can be used as a stand=-alone mag drill too when needed. Most Mag-drill come with a broaching chuck and a standard chuck, but worth checking first.

Just googled this as I reckon it must have been done before and found this thread......

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/mag-drills-how-precise.67064/

Was it from machine mart as well ? I nearly bought a small lathe there (well big for Machine mart) but on inspection it was junk and basically scrap unless your intention was to turn large metal into small metal.

No; it was an old, very heavy British made thing, can't remember the brand now. Was once a decent quality machine. The problem was that it was all quite tired and worn out. So many things would have needed doing, to make it run, and I doubt it would ever have run very well. The motor looked potentially dangerous for a start. So I threw it in the cellar somewhere, where it probably still remains, rusting away. At some point I need to put it outside for the local scrappies. The problem with buying something without prior knowledge and experience, is that if you do buy a dud, you've then got to get rid of it. I basically paid some chancer to do just that. Caveat Emptor.

Aye it’s good fun when it works and the sun is shining but it requires a fair bit of commitment to keep running. I’ve learnt a lot about how to fix stuff over the years - mostly by breaking it in the first place!

Mpg per the book is 4.5 - this is a reconnaissance vehicle not a tank as such so it’s fairly light (8 tonnes or so).

But it’s only done 10 miles a year for the last few years so actually fairly environmentally friendly, especially as it was built the best part of 50 years ago now 😃

I’ve bought some small end mills and a cross vice which I might experiment with too.

Basically almost everything I read says ‘don’t’ when it comes to using a drill for milling, but it would be handy if it works for very light stuff.

I thought as a start I might have a go at lightening some old pedals!

@timbog160 - I can see why you wanted a better pillar drill! Your garage is bigger than my house 😂 Very impressive stuff in terms of keeping it running.

That way you get the versatility of a pillar drill that will also work with broaching bits, and that can be used as a stand=-alone mag drill too when needed

Aye,Mag drills have their place,this place is not 5 metres up on steelwork when some other halfwit contractor,looking for a 110V supply,unplugs the magnet feed.😮🙃😜

Aye,Mag drills have their place,this place is not 5 metres up on steelwork when some other halfwit contractor,looking for a 110V supply,unplugs the magnet feed.

Aren't they supposed to have a safety strap for exactly that scenario!

Aren’t they supposed to have a safety strap for exactly that scenario!

I am sure this is now compulsory, and in any well documented and approved risk assessment for working at height with sharp spinning things, would be top of the list. But this was far away and long ago, in a time when a connection to the site 110 transformer was everything. Even now, I can still remember the noise of it bouncing down the scaffolding.😂

Just came across this. Looks like a decent bargain for someone. No connection with the seller!

Bargain indeed, both items would clean up fine,just don't mention Hammerite or trailrat will burst in to flames 🤣

Bugger, I'm going to Sheffield this weekend but already planning on bringing a bike back!

I'm in Sheffield. Is it actually a decent bit of kit?

It would appear so, Ajax seem to go for similar money to my Startrite. The buyer isn't kidding when he says the vice is worth as much as the drill either.

Have a look on mig welding forum and UK workshop (as well as previously sold) if you're unsure but if you're local it looks like a damn good deal.

I thought that was an opening bid not a buy it now price! Bargain!!

I just hit the button. My Mrs is going up north with the big car so I'm collecting it on Monday. Watch out for my 'How the hell do I fix a pillar drill' thread.

Right, what the hell did I just buy? It certainly makes my garage look like I really mean business. I have no idea what I'm going to do with it yet.

My mate tells me it's got a 'Morse Taper Quill' which is a good thing apparently.

They both look like they will clean up just fine.Morse taper is indeed good news (get some drifts Drill drift ). Bigger drills ,reamers and other attachments await 🙂

Good man!! Looks superb! 😀

We have a few floor mounted Ajax at work - good machines taken a lot of abuse over the years.

The slot that is exposed on the spindle when you pull the Chuck down is where you stick the drift to drop the Chuck out. Rotate the Chuck by hand whilst looking into the slot till the two slots line up. Bang the drift in and the Chuck will drop into the rag/cushion you've placed below.

IIRC - they are MT2. You can stick some whacking great big old school drill bits in for serious swarf production!

The thumb knob on the rotary dial/scale is for setting a depth stop.

Thanks for the tips. I have an overwhelming urge to drill things.

I wonder if I have any bike parts which need speed holes.