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No decision yet, but after watching the "Maddie Goes Electric" videos above we have found the following helpful things:
https://ev-database.org/ - nice database of available electric cars to help narrow down the choice based on whatever criteria you feel is important.
https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/ & https://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/ more useful buying info and reviews.
https://www.zap-map.com/ & https://www.plugshare.com/ - mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Useful for checking out what charging facilities are available nearby.
So it looks like we have a 43kW charger in a car park very near our house. It is apparently run by http://chargeyourcar.org.uk/
As far as I can tell it is FREE to use, though you need a ChargeYourCar membership which costs £20pa. Does that sound about right/typical?
Octopus that was the supplier I couldn’t recall cheers B.a.nana
So I've been musing again about electric cars - with a view to potentially choosing one in the future as the BIK for company cars is so low. I like cars of all types so read/watch reviews, follow Fully Charged and other channels etc.
A smaller range one for the wife would be ideal for her use locally and I like the idea of reducing emmissions, but to buy personally is pretty affordable at the moment. Fuel savings for low mileage certainly doesn't offset the purchase cost.
If doing regular national travel for work, I've come to the conclusion that a Tesla would be the only rational choice at the moment. Having had a hybrid before, you soon lose the will to use chargers that may be slow/non-working/occupied (ECOTRICITY!!!) and that are located at crappy-expensive-coffee service station locations. Being tied to that several times a week with a full BEV (such as the good-value but low range MG) would soon become v tedious. Looking at ZappApp things are improving but by no means sorted.
With the Tesla supercharger V3 rolling out now (250kW) and a model 3 able to add 75 miles in just over 5 min you're starting to approach a solution that works......if your route is near one at the right time. If going this route though, I would be worried about how quickly or otherwise that this network is going to expand in the next year or two and therefore how much capacity they have, for the undoubted sales boom that's now underway.
In an ideal world you would have a choice of affordable cars, that have ~350-400 miles of actual range, charge it at home 95% of the time, with solar PV doing some of the heavy lifting charging-wise and the car acting as a store for those volts and feeding back into the house for the peak evening use when it's not needed.
I lease an i3 through Zenith and had it delivered last December with about 7 weeks from BMW confirming order to getting it delivered so you may be lucky and get it earlier
So here is a map of 24hr public access charge points around me.
https://imgur.com/gallery/9ztJmea
Even if you remove the filters the other chargers are at either B&Bs/car dealerships for customers only or car parks where you have to pay on top of any charging fee.
Looks like Calderdale council need to sort themselves out. There’s 3 free to use in town near me and 2 where you pay but all are free parking.
Oh! The zap-map 24hr filter is broke as it shows only one with 24 access near me and it’s a one I didn’t know was there so that’s 4 where you pay.
Wait they’ve also installed 2 more free to use just on the edge of town so that’s 5. None of which at a services.
Octopus that was the supplier I couldn’t recall cheers B.a.nana
On that subject, I found this helpful on the zap-map website. .zap-map.com/charge-points/ev-energy-tariffs/
EV designed tariffs generally don't show up on the usual comparison engines, because they are a bit left field, so you need to do the research yourself. In that list on ZapMap there is no mention of Octopus Agile tariff, it's also worth considering in terms of the whole home and your car, but it's in beta testing at the moment (which you can join) so a bit of an experiment. If you do consider Agile then you really need your home car charger to work with the Agile tariff, I'm only aware of Ohme smart chargers / cables that currently do this, but there might be others.
Looks like Calderdale council need to sort themselves out. There’s 3 free to use in town near me and 2 where you pay but all are free parking.
Oh! The zap-map 24hr filter is broke as it shows only one with 24 access near me and it’s a one I didn’t know was there so that’s 4 where you pay.
On that map you’ve got all of Kirklees (425000 residents) and a lot of Calderdale (205000) plus bits of Bradford and Leeds.
Quite a lot of people in these areas live in houses with no drives (lots of terraced houses) so can’t put their own point in.
Don’t think I’m against EV’s at all. I have a hybrid at the moment (not a plug in) and would love a full EV. In fact when my work car comes up for renewal (2.5 years away) I’ll probably get one. But that’s only because I can fit my own charger as I have a drive and a suitable location to fit a charger. There’s no way on earth anyone living round me could have an EV if they didn’t have their own charger or got a free charge at work at a push, unless they were a complete martyr to the cause.
Are you aware of this programme swedishmetal? https://ev.engie.co.uk/wyca.html
I live in the Aire valley and there are about 7 being installed up the valley (unfortunately not in Skipton)
Wow a whole 17 charge points for 425000 residents in Kirklees. Which are now going to get hammered as they are free.
Wow a whole 17 charge points for 425000 residents in Kirklees.
Do all 42500 thousands drive a car, own an electric car, have no access o their own power and plan to charge their cars at exactly the same time?
This map is interesting they’ve installed loads in the last 30 minutes.
So again you’ve not read what I typed. Nearly all of those are at restricted locations - B&B/hotels or car dealers (for customer use only) or car parks which charge a parking fee on top of the charging fee. I know, I’ve checked them all. You simple cannot use them unless you are staying at the hotel, using the car garage, or paying the parking fee on top.
In my map I didn’t even filter to ones which only need a debit/credit card.
You’re going to look pretty stupid if you keep reading things selectively.
So again you’ve not read what I typed. Nearly all of those are at restricted locations – B&B/hotels or car dealers (for customer use only) or car parks which charge a parking fee on top of the charging fee.
I did but you’re like Harry and trying to make out owning an EV is a really bad idea, it’s not but the infrastructure has a long way to go no one is deny that.
You’ve checked them all? Really you went around everyone single one?
You’re going to look pretty stupid if you keep reading things selectively.
Not as silly as someone selecting filters, some of which aren’t working, to,try and make a bad point.
oh look more folk finding their local charge points in odd locations.
several villages near me have their ONLY charge point in cafes/bnbs/pubs for customer use only.
one of which i know the owner reasonably well and they frequently get folk knocking on their door when the cafe is shut to use their charger - they have even had a german couple wave a phone at them and say this app(which is not something they have listed with) says you can charge here...... AT 2 AM
Wow a whole 17 charge points for 425000 residents in Kirklees. Which are now going to get hammered as they are free.
You have a point, I'd consider it a risk at the moment without a home charger. However, national stats say 60% of pop have a drive, this may not be the case in Kirklees but it won't be as far away as you seem to think. Those people have no need of other local charging. demand isn't there at the moment, but I don't think it will be long before you start seeing rows of chargers in all Shell / BP etc petrol stations and councils will be forced to do more when there's some demand.
I don’t think it will be long before you start seeing rows of chargers in all Shell / BP etc
BP bought charge you car network so yup I’m sure we will see more.
I did but you’re like Harry and trying to make out owning an EV is a really bad idea, it’s not but the infrastructure has a long way to go no one is deny that.
Again not reading what I wrote. I have never said owning an EV is a bad idea. A lot of people saying everything is rosy about EV charging but it simply isn’t. YOU might live in a place where EV charging is plentiful but a lot of people don’t.
I’ll say it again, if you can’t fit your own charge point then an EV isn’t really a viable option right now for anyone in my area. At the moment you can’t go into EV ownership without open eyes knowing the positives and negatives for the area you live in.
You’ve checked them all? Really you went around everyone single one?
I’ve been to 90% of all the locations where there are EV charging points in recent years around Huddersfield. I’ve seen a lot of these charge points recently as I’ve been considering an EV myself so keeping an eye out so I know where they are located and what restrictions there are. ZapMap confirmed what I knew at the places I’ve been to before and gives info about all the other locations.
I was going to make a list of all the charge points in my area and try to figure out which ones are useful for potential EV owners but I can’t find a way to export a list from ZapMap.
There’s no point in discussing this with you anyway as I’ve seen you argue about points in other threads. I am sure you’ll be able to take a sentence or two from this post and twist it to try and make me look stupid or try and argue in a different direction. If that makes you happy then go ahead I just feel sorry for you. I hope you are more reasonable in person.
Again not reading what I wrote. I have never said owning an EV is a bad idea. A lot of people saying everything is rosy about EV charging but it simply isn’t. YOU might live in a place where EV charging is plentiful but a lot of people don’t.
I have you keep implying it is. No one has said it’s rosey it needs a little bit of work now which can be a pain.
I’ll say it again, if you can’t fit your own charge point then an EV isn’t really a viable option right now for anyone in my area. At the moment you can’t go into EV ownership without open eyes knowing the positives and negatives for the area you live in.
That is more like it yes maybe not great with but as I said Calderdale council should also address this like other councils have. Of course you need to research if it’s viable for you but that’s the same for any car. I’ve not gone for one yet because of the limited range on early models but it’s highly likely I’ll be ordering one next.
ZapMap confirmed what I knew at the places I’ve been to before and gives info about all the other locations.
It seems it’s not that accurate with it’s filters though.
Having chargers at pubs and shops is a sensible business solution for towns, they get trade from those using the chargers and the customers get to charge their car. Free parking would be a much better idea on top of that something Newcastle city council should be thinking about as it’s a bit crap in Newcastle.
Free parking would be a much better idea on top of that something Newcastle city council should be thinking about as it’s a bit crap in Newcastle.
double edged sword really .
Electric cars are one application where park and ride really does make sense. Stick the space polution/storage out of town where there is space and use mass transit into the middle.
Electric cars are one application where park and ride really does make sense. Stick the space polution/storage out of town where there is space and use mass transit into the middle.
Makes sense for any car but yes that’s where York was great but encouraging people to go EV with no parking fees helps where people insist on parking outside the doors.
"York was great but encouraging people to go EV with no parking fees helps where people insist on parking outside the doors."
initially - great- the backlash dundee got for removing the free charging/parking for EVs hasnt been great.
Free parking and access to charge points at park and ride give them an incentive to use the park and ride and their EV
if they want to park in town then they continue to pay.
Free parking and access to charge points at park and ride give them an incentive to use the park and ride and their EV
if they want to park in town then they continue to pay.
Yeah I can see that argument too.
Electric cars are one application where park and ride really does make sense.
Not if you're parking a green-leccy charged car to jump onto a diesel bus it doesn't!
swedishmetal, try downloading wattsup app chose 'new journey' 'nearest charger' I'm pretty sure they just list public access chargers (not private or private destination) in descending order from your current location. i think it does include supermarkets etc, but they are places you can charge at without being expected to shop or use the facilities. might not include some really new or under construction
Not if you’re parking a green-leccy charged car to jump onto a diesel bus it doesn’t!
Are you saying people shouldn’t use public transport?
Not if you’re parking a green-leccy charged car to jump onto a diesel bus it doesn’t!
space polution is as much of an issue in city center as air.
we have hydrogen busses
we also have trains
Not if you’re parking a green-leccy charged car to jump onto a diesel bus it doesn’t!
But you have to consider the bus emissions against the number of passengers it carries on average.
Also, leccy buses and trams exist.
People who are considering an electric car need to get out of this obsession with public charging points. We’ve had a new shape Nissan Leaf for over a year and 20,000 miles now, and have used a public charging point TWICE. Once because it was a novelty and free at Tesco (and a good parking spot) and once at IKEA again for novelty value, because we didn’t need it for range. You plug the car in at night people; it’s always full in the morning, and unless you’re one of the 1%ers that drive LOTS a day (get a diesel car, it’s okay. They are designed for you) or doing one of your 1% long ass journeys (get a coffee) then you simply won’t routinely NEED public charging. We live semi rural, have family around an hour away that we see regularly and longish commutes and school runs (32mile round trip and 44mile round trip respectively).
Honestly, one of the very BEST things about an EV is never having to go to a petrol station again.
Think of it like your phone. It’s only if you hammer it or if your battery is knackered that you ever need to charge it during the day. If that’s the case, you need a different phone, not a petrol powered one.
Edit; and if you can’t charge at home, don’t get an electric car. They aren’t for you yet.
Get out of here V8 we don’t need reasonable arguments in an EV thread.
The biggest issue for me personally is a lack of EV estate cars. I know why they aren’t made (Biggest EV markets don’t really want them) but that doesn’t really help right now. If I got a car with a real 200 mile range I could use it for work but the amount of kit I have to keep with me means I effectively don’t have a boot space in my current car (Toyota Auris Hybrid - my works needs changed after I got it but I can’t swap it - 4 year lease!).
Hopefully in 2 years time that will have changed.
SUV style may be the answer I’m trying to resist the E-Tron 50 offer that popped up this week, it’s affordable on the deal they’re offering but delivery a little too early for me.
Check how you can transport bikes. My Toyota isn’t type approved for a tow bar so I can’t fit one (had to sell my Thule rack).
Couldn’t really get an SUV (don’t like them anyway) style if I had to put bikes on roof as neither me or my wife are very tall.
Friend of mine works for Audi and was boasting about them installing lots of chargers for their new electric cars. Chargers for Audi’s only - making the charger access problem worse!!!!
I know the ID 3 has a tow bar option but orders have paused on that although they’re hinting on being back on order soon.
I’ve always been an SUV hater then we got Kodaiqs at work they’re superb a lovely vehicle to drive and massive inside.
Friend of mine works for Audi and was boasting about them installing lots of chargers for their new electric cars. Chargers for Audi’s only – making the charger access problem worse!!!!
If true that’s ridiculous just like Tesla keeping their network locked.
Who has Ionity?, isn't that a handful of car companies. They have massively banged the price up for charging unless you have one of their cars, that's what I understand anyhow. So, everyone else can still use them, but you pay big time for it.
Who has Ionity?, isn’t that a handful of car companies.
Isn’t that what the German groups are heading down as they’re super chargers, I’ve seen one yet.
That's what swedishmetal's mate is on about I reckon. So, it's not a closed network, but outsiders pay a premium.
Ah maybe.
and Hyundai / kia
https://ionity.eu/en/news-storage/hyundai-on-board.html
Hmmm! And Ford too as well as VAG so that’s quite a lot of cars.
If the charging network doesn't eventually sort itself out then government will eventually need to step in and regulate.
e.g. Think back to the bad old days of mobile phone chargers before the EU legislation forced companies to adopt common USB standards. I think that is probably where we are now.
That’s what swedishmetal’s mate is on about I reckon. So, it’s not a closed network, but outsiders pay a premium.
You can look it up on Audi website, looks like Audi only to me but I didn’t delve too far.
Maybe there will be 2 tiers of EV charging in the end. Fancy expensive cars will get their own network where they can charge quickly and widely and normal cars will scrat around for facilities and be at the mercy of hundreds of small charging companies trying to harvest data and screw people out of as much money as possible. 😂😂
Audi have partnered with other manufacturers and Shell to form Ionity, a joint venture to create a European high–power charging network. By the end of 2020, Ionity will have installed more than 400 high-performance stations across Europe; 40 stations are currently planned for the UK with more to follow. Initially located along major motorways, Ionity stations will have the capability to charge at an output of up to 350kW - a significant boost to charging times achieved by current electric charging stations. For the Audi e-tron, it means the battery can be recharged to 80% in under 30 minutes and within 50 minutes for a full charge**.
Definitely says other manufacturers.
Maybe there will be 2 tiers of EV charging in the end. Fancy expensive cars will get their own network where they can charge quickly and widely and normal cars will scrat around for facilities and be at the mercy of hundreds of small charging companies trying to harvest data and screw people out of as much money as possible
Or maybe we'll end up with petrol stations adding charging as another string to their bow, and being as ubiquitous, if not more so, as they are now.
Fancy expensive cars will get their own network where they can charge quickly and widely and normal cars will scrat around for facilities and be at the mercy of hundreds of small charging companies trying to harvest data and screw people out of as much money as possible.
Sounds like something from Black Mirror. *dislikes*
Or maybe we’ll end up with petrol stations adding charging as another string to their bow, and being as ubiquitous, if not more so, as they are now.
Maybe, but you would think a common plug standard would be easy enough.
The Gulf in town has a charger so it's already a thing.
can you imagine the spark potential from your car in a petrol station given how dangerous* your mobile phone is.....
*i know its a myth - i know the danger is the distraction but still ..... sparky.
Maybe, but you would think a common plug standard would be easy enough.
Indeed most are starting to use CCS now.
How handy, the vast majority of chargers around here are Type 2. 22kw at that, some as low as 7.
How handy, the vast majority of chargers around here are Type 2. 22kw at that, some as low as
Yeah most around here have Type 2 minimum a few have others, type 2 fits ccs chargers.
If you are in a place with a vast majority of 18-22 kW type 2 chargers (I am) check out the rating of the car's onboard charger. Peugeot brags about its Peugeot 208's ability to fast charge at 100kW through the euro-combo plug but forgets to say that there are very few euro-combo chargers and next to none rated 100KW. And most important the Peugeot's onboard charger is only rated 7kW, so you can only draw 7kW from a type 2 charger even if it's rated higher. The Leaf has the same problem, it can charge at 50kW with a CHAdeMO but only 6.6kW on the more common type 2 chargers.
The Zoé can charge at 50kW on euro-combo (I wouldn't want to charge faster as it would reduce battery life) and has a 22kW on-board charger that can make full use of 18-22kW type 2 chargers.
can you imagine the spark potential from your car in a petrol station given how dangerous* your mobile phone is…..
*i know its a myth – i know the danger is the distraction but still ….. sparky.
I expect you're joking but It's a none issue, the pumps and screens are powered by electric in every petrol pump for gawd sake, as are a dozen other items dotted around the forecourt.
Difference being they will most likely be intrinsically safe.
Difference being they will most likely be intrinsically safe.
Just like mobiles.
There's already loads being installed in petrol stations anyhow, so it clearly isn't considered an issue beyond the usual HSE stuff and Petroleum regulations.
I wanted to get a Tesla 3 long range for my next company car, but couldn’t get the numbers to work to convince my boss. £200 a month extra lease cost over current car, which outweighed the monthly saving in fuel.
I wanted to get a Tesla 3 long range for my next company car, but couldn’t get the numbers to work to convince my boss. £200 a month extra lease cost over current car, which outweighed the monthly saving in fuel.
If you have to pay for fuel on personal miles, What about your BIK saving from 1 April as well, how much would that save you per month personally in total? Is it worth paying the diff to become a Tesla Tosser? (BillOddie's phrase on page 1, not mine)
I was told that garages don't like you using your mobile in case you drop it and create a spark, nothing to do with the device being safe, this may of course be nonsense.
We don’t do a lot of local miles but we do long trips with bikes so it had to be a Tesla Model 3 with towbar for bike rack. I had to accept it was going to cost more than owning a 10 year old Fiat Doblo but I couldn’t be the person on a bike who hates being overtaken by diesel fume spewing cars and also drive a diesel.
A few years ago I did a trip in Nissan eNV200 so I thought I was prepared for charging (ie an inevitable nightmare involving frequent calls to helplines to reboot barely used chargers etc). You have to give it to Tesla though, their network is flawless - the car tells you when and where to charge, how many stalls are available and how long you need to charge for. I’m in awe - I’ve never actually liked owning a car but I’m embarrassed to say that I love my Tesla. We’ve done two 1,000 mile trips to France for about £60 each charge costs so a bit of the monthly payment is offset.
As for access to charging networks - I see both sides. Tesla charging is super fast and well set up so that as soon as you’re full you get a text to move your car - plus you get charged if you leave it. No one else does that at the moment hence plug in hybrids camping out on EV charge points all day long. There will have to be some planning around fast charge points (which actually take a few hours to charge) where you might not want to bump people off them (no shopping centre wants to encourage people to leave rapidly for instance) and rapid chargers (less than an hour to fill) where you do need to enforce moving on so that no one turning up with a low battery is stuck waiting an indeterminate length of time.
Right now we’ve just got a 3 pin plug at home and the local Lidl has a rapid podpoint if we’re ever in a hurry. By the summer we’ll have a Zappi so we can charge from our solar.
Drac
Subscriber
SUV style may be the answer I’m trying to resist the E-Tron 50 offer that popped up this week, it’s affordable on the deal they’re offering but delivery a little too early for me.
The e-tron is everything that's wrong with EVs. 2.7 tonnes and a 71kWh battery to do 186 miles in favourable conditions.
The e-tron is everything that’s wrong with EVs. 2.7 tonnes and a 71kWh battery to do 186 miles in favourable conditions.
Well not really it’s just one that is an SUV style there are others which are city cars, family hatchbacks and saloons. I’m not sure an example of one is all that is wrong with them.
You have to give it to Tesla though, their network is flawless
Tesla do seem to have realised the importance of the network that other ICE manufacturers haven't.
Strikes me as as a very Apple-style pay a premium but "It Just Works" approach.
I was struck by the same thought when I went to the Tesla shop in Edinburgh. It wasn't a garage or a showroom: it was much more like an Apple Store. Shiny, minimalist, brightly lit store, sat between other normal shops, with two Teslas and a Powerwall on display, demo videos playing on the walls and "Geniuses" answering questions.
If I had money to invest I'd be chucking it their way!
Still with the obsession about charging points. Who does more than 150-200 miles a day regularly without returning to home?
You sir?
Get a diesel.
The rest of us?
An EV suits, unless you can’t charge at home. In which case get a little petrol car, an EV would be a faff.
(I’d like an estate too, mind you, or even better, a pickup that doesn’t look like it’s straight out of an 80’s arcade game)
This is a lot of pages about a 12 mile commute. Did anyone point out that an ebike would be the best bet for such a journey? 🙂
@GrahamS
A mate with a Leaf confirms the ChargeYourCar thing in that car park, though he thinks there is a PAYG option in the app
Still with the obsession about charging points. Who does more than 150-200 miles a day regularly without returning to home?
You sir?
Get a diesel.
The rest of us?
Exactly. The people who 'need' to drive 200 miles a day must be in the <1% range. Majority of people can just charge overnight every few days (realise those in blocks of flats have a different challenge but again that is not the majority of people)
Majority of people can just charge overnight every few days
Just plug it in whenever you get home. Timer set for stupid cheap rate midnight - 4am-ish. Job jobbed; it’s really not a hard concept. Who would need a 500 mile fuel tank if you had a petrol station (or even a refinery, as an analogy for those lucky enough to have solar panels) on your drive?
How many people need 7 days battery life on their mobiles ‘just in case they go on holiday and there are no convenient plugs?’
Just plug it in whenever you get home. Timer set for stupid cheap rate midnight – 4am-ish. Job jobbed;
These are my Agile prices tonight, less than 1ppkwh 02.00-05.30. I even get paid to use lecky at one point
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B.A.Nana
Member
I wanted to get a Tesla 3 long range for my next company car, but couldn’t get the numbers to work to convince my boss. £200 a month extra lease cost over current car, which outweighed the monthly saving in fuel.
If you have to pay for fuel on personal miles, What about your BIK saving from 1 April as well, how much would that save you per month personally in total? Is it worth paying the diff to become a Tesla Tosser? (BillOddie’s phrase on page 1, not mine)
Yes I’ve thought about salary sacrifice to cover the extra cost, though the Tesla 3 is a bit of a compromise in other areas like size and range.
My experience is the current charging infrastructure is too hit and miss and ranges not great enough to be reliant on just a non-Tesla EV at the moment. Non-Tesla EVs are great if your travelling circumstances are just right. A 40kwh Zoe does work perfectly for my commute - a 60 mile round trip which gives me spare capacity if I need it that day (I rarely have to use the car during my working day). I can stick it on the free 7kw charger at the park and ride (which I use to avoid the exorbitant car parking charges and the fight for any spaces at work and I really enjoy the short bike ride across the city everyday). The only problem is occasionally other EVs get on the chargers first but I’ve got more than enough spare capacity for that not to be a problem to get home and I just plug it in overnight there on the granny cable.
For longer trips I really have to have an ICE but am now starting to think about at a Tesla 3 to replace that later in the year if the money works for me personally. Their charging infrastructure being the game changer to get over the mess of the rest of the charging infrastructure. Makes me wince at the thought of taking the Zoe on a really long journey - would take a lot of planning, coffee breaks and crossing of fingers.
I can stick it on the free 7kw charger at the park and ride (which I use to avoid the exorbitant car parking charges and the fight for any spaces at work and I really enjoy the short bike ride across the city everyday). The only problem is occasionally other EVs get on the chargers first but I’ve got more than enough spare capacity for that not to be a problem to get home and I just plug it in overnight there on the granny cable.
This is a major problem for EV owners trying to do long distances - local EV drivers squatting the charge point for the free parking and or free electricity. It would be better if the parking were still payable and the electricity cost at least 10% more than charging at home in the day. The parking place also needs to be the most inconveniently placed parking space to discourage ICE vehicle owners from squatting it.
But try taking you Zoé on a long trip, Devbrix. That way you'll never again squatt a charge point you don't strcitly need.
Totally agree Edukator, that’s my point really, the non-Tesla charging network is a shambles and you can only make it work if your particular travel circumstances fit.
I lusted after an i3s but have gone for a Kia eNiro through the salary sacrifice scheme.
Looking to switch to a more appropriate electricity tariff.
Anything better than Octopus Go?
If not, does anyone have a referral code to share?
We'll each get £50 credit...
@Dangerboy. I am on Octopus Go since I got an EV. Very good experience and I like what Octopus do as a business, seems very forward looking.
I can provide a referral code if I can work out how the PM system works..
Dave
I lusted after an i3s but have gone for a Kia eNiro
You won't regret the extra 140km and extra space.
Dangerboy, Octopus Agile is worth considering, depends how nerdy you want to get. For it to be really effective with your car you need an Ohme or zappi EV charger (might be others) or an Ohme cable with an untethered EV charger.
As an EV owner I feel I should comment on a few points raised on this thread...
(apologies, I haven't read every post)
Charging speed
Try timing yourself from the moment you park to when you get back to your car next time you stop at a motorway services on a long journey for a rest, a pee, to buy a pint of milk and drink a cuppa. You might be surprised. For me this stop is enough to add 50 odd miles to my battery easily and if I need more it's more than taken up by wolfing down a quick lunch, or spending a few minutes catching up with a few emails. My view: it's an inconvenience if you want EVs to be an inconvenience, or if you go out of range very often. With modest forward planning it's of little concern. Little enough forward planning you can do it on the way.
You start every day full so remember that this event only happens on the days you go out of range, which are fairly rare for most. And the charge you need to add is just enough to finish your day. Rarely near a full charge. The time to a full charge is not a number that affects your life on a daily basis, unless you bought the wrong car or can't charge at home.
Overall I reckon I use public charge points for about the same amount of time in the year as I spent before at petrol stations filling up. Maybe a bit more but not much. However that time is spent working, or having a cuppa or shopping or walking the dog, not in the cold with a smelly diesel pump in my hand. I know what I'd rather be doing...
I don't have a dedicated charge point at home, although I intend to get one, and this doesn't matter that much. A 3 pin plug is slow though, at 10a (NB a UK 3 pin plug won't take a sustained 13a, car chargers are set to 10a for 3 pin). 16a "commando" blue socket better, 32a better still, but any of them will charge most cars overnight, when you didn't want to drive the car anyway.
That Harry video is mostly quite fair IMO, but his signing off comparison of miles added per hour charging vs miles added per hour filling a conventional car is idiotic, unless either he can fill his range rover up while he's asleep, or he drives his car so constantly that he never sleeps.
Overall, a little mindset shift you need on a long journey is that you don't tend to run the battery low then charge it up. What you tend to do is plug your car in because you've stopped. You charge at your breaks, rather than breaking for a charge. For this reason (and others) the fear of a diversion getting you in a mess is not a practical reality unless you want to make a point of it.
Charging plug compatibility
Different manufacturers using different sockets is technically true but has ceased to be an issue of much note, as I understand it. Vast majority of cars use type 2 and ccs nowadays, and I've yet to see a charge location that doesn't suit these. Regardless, you'd use zapmap or similar to choose where to charge, and that gives you all the info you need.
Published range
The way I drive it my car doesn't give me the published range either. Of course it bloody doesn't. Just like none of my previous cars gave the published mpg from the same test. The difference in percentage terms is similar, perhaps a bit better with the EV. Winter is materially worse than summer, which was true with internal combustion too, but less noticeable.
Using the heater sensibly, ie by someone who grasps what a thermostat does, isn't a big deal. If you're really worried about this warm your car for 10 mins while it's plugged in before the long journey, which will ease the effect on range.
Surprise surprise, not all EVs are equal. Tarring them all with that Harry fellow's 440wh/mile at 74mph is like saying all internal combustion engine cars drink fuel like a range rover. Don't spend your life moving air out the way with an SUV if you want sensible energy consumption. Charging speed is if course affected the same - if you car does less miles per kwh, it'll charge at less miles per minute.
Public charging access
Different charge points use different methods of paying. App, membership, card or contactless payment. This is a bit of a pain. Roll on the day they all see the light and take contactless payment and charge per kwh. And there are more of them, and they're faster. Some of the faster ones are silly money, but still not petrol money and you'll use them hardly ever, so they probably won't affect your overall costs materially.
So this provision is a bit crap in the UK (except tesla), and I don't think Harry is wrong on it, but you probably won't use it much. If you will, then as things stand it could cause you a problem, but hopefully this will improve soon. Buy a car with enough range to cover your normal day, and some.
Having off street parking...
... affects all the above convenience points. Obviously. You need to be able to charge at home overnight somehow or you will be inconvenienced in a fairly big way. Good on you if you still go for an EV of course, but it takes away the convenience benefit.
Assuming you have off street parking you also won't be interested in public charge points near home of course.
Emissions
Add up the emissions associated with extracting, refining, transporting and burning fuel on one side vs lifecycle uk electricity emissions plus grid and charging losses on the other side. Incorporate manufacturing emissions as well. You'll probably conclude a good 3x the emissions for internal combustion over electric for an otherwise similar car over its life. On this alone I felt I had a personal responsibility, when the time came to replace my car, not to buy another internal combustion engine.
Costs
Yes, it's more like for like, but at least add up all the costs, not just the purchase price. And this point is really about the new car buyer, because 2nd hand EVs mean early tech and small volumes. That'll change. How much more expensive can you handle for a significant (some would say massive) reduction in environmental impact? If your answer is nil, you're basically Donald Trump 😉
I don’t have a dedicated charge point at home, although I intend to get one, and this doesn’t matter that much. A 3 pin plug is slow though, at 10a (NB a UK 3 pin plug won’t take a sustained 13a, car chargers are set to 10a for 3 pin). 16a “commando” blue socket better, 32a better still, but any of them will charge most cars overnight, when you didn’t want to drive the car anyway.
The charge time for the Zoé at 10A on a normal socket is 29h 34mins, that's hardly overnight and its a small car. A 16A greenup is the minimum you need at home, and unless you have a public charger that is always free just up the road, a 7kW a very good idea..
Charging at 10A is a really bad idea especially in hot weather, so much goes into battery cooling a smaller proportion gets into the battery. I know this from experience after charging at 10A in hot weather - A heat pump that takes about 1kW halves a 2kW charge rate but only reduces a 7kW charge rate by 1/7.
The charge time for the Zoé at 10A on a normal socket is 29h 34mins, that’s hardly overnight and its a small car. A 16A greenup is the minimum you need at home, and unless you have a public charger that is always free just up the road, a 7kW a very good idea..
Fair enough. I suppose what I meant was that even on 10A you can add 100 miles overnight, which does most people's normal day or tops up a moderately discharged battery, which is probably the most common situation at the end of the day. When I got my car I already had a 16a socket and it wasn't til I'd done 10k miles that I got round to getting an adapter to fit my 32a (7kw) socket. At that point I pretty much forgot about charging time at home, but most days I was already timing charge for midnight to 7am for min grid carbon intensity on 16a, so I was getting my daily usage out of modest charging kit/time.
Also notable that charging losses are higher on lower currents. 29.5 hours means nearly 30% charging losses for a 50kwh zoe if my maths is right. My experience was nowhere near as bad but on 32a I get c.10%.
Edit: seen your extra paragraph now. I haven't experienced the cooling issue to any great extent - how big a deal is it in the UK climate?