Yes, I know they have a horrendous reputation.
However, I am looking at one for all sorts of practical reasons. In addition, as far as new build estates go, this one overlooks greenspace to the rear (which cannot be built on because hill), has a larger open space to the front, the estate seems well spaced and lots of trees etc, and generally there are some really good reasons to consider it for us at the moment.
I also took a walk and spoke to three occupants of neighbouring houses on the street - all were very positive about the quality of the build, the speedy snagging response from developer (Bellway), and the overall feel of the estate and neighbours. That has helped put my mind a bit more at ease.
The house is half built, so developer has already chosen 'upgrades' which all seem pretty much what we would have chosen. But we are past extra sockets, choosing the kitchen or bathrooms etc.
So:
- what do I need to know/ask about specification I have not already thought about?
- what are the chances of some discount/free flooring/sweetner on the last three houses (due for completion in November) of an 80-house development? All 77 other houses are complete and folk moving in now, these are unsold as they have only been released since May.
- anyone got experience of buying one and it not being a nightmare? I am pragmatic about new build settling, having snagging etc. Heck, the house we bought 12 years ago had a list of things we had to deal with second hand - from stinky smokers room to dodgy plumbing and electrics.
If 77 of 80 houses are sold I think your chance of a discount is slim to none!! 😀
Can't help with the rest as I've never bought a new-build.
My only advice having seen my sister and niece buy them is make sure there is enough parking and that drives are big enough for todays SUVs or the roads will be a nightmare.
My sister moved into a new build last year and seems very pleased. The only gripe she has is the roads around the estate haven't been finished yet.
I'm not sure how durable some of the paint finish is especially in the bathroom, so if it was my house I'd repainting the skirting fairly soon (and replacing the doors as they are typically cheap and nasty), but overall the house looks good, and is an annoyingly better layout that than mine 🙂
I'd buy a new build over an old 50+yr old house assuming I was confident with the builder, design and efficiency. I have very little confidence with the Victorian builders and anyone in-between. Where are they now to resolve their errors?! 😉
The only way there's no chance of a discount or sweetener is if you don't ask for one. The asking price will absolutely have a haggle margin built in which allows the sales bod to get a profitable sale and you to get a 'deal'. If you don't ask, you don't get.
If 77 of 80 houses are sold I think your chance of a discount is slim to none!!
It's quite common for free flooring or other upgrades to be offered to shift the remaining plots on a development. The developer won't want finished houses left unsold
Take the site manager for lunch and get the low-down on what's going on. I've bought a new-build and that worked well, as he also told me all the stuff that they'd throw in for free.
Get a professional snagging company. I don't actually know what a developer would do when the snagging company shows them a wall that's out of tolerance, but it just means that the minor stuff is handled as one big block of work at the start.
Developers will cut costs everywhere they can. They'll cheap out on electrical work in particular (you'll get a single pendant in each room and downlights will have almost no slack) and nothing will be accessible. They're under huge time pressure so mistakes will be made.
Get them to run ethernet cable to each room during the construction process.
You might not have internet for a year or so (though less of an issue now with 5G or Starlink).
They only tell you where the social housing on the development is *after* you sign the contract. It was never an issue at my end of the estate but it was a nightmare at the other side.
It's quite common for free flooring or other upgrades to be offered to shift the remaining plots on a development. The developer won't want finished houses left unsold
Yeah, thinking about it, I'd have thought the last few plots will attract some discounting/freebies as they (the developer) want to be gone.
My parents went to look at a new build near us earlier this year and they came back with a hilarious bit of paper with rules and fees on it. You needed permission from the estate management company to paint the front door a different colour, change the windows, put a for sale sign up in the front garden, put a trampoline in the garden... etc. If you broke a rule and they sent you a letter there was a fee to pay for that. There was an annual estate management fee to pay as well.
check to see if the road has been adopted by the council
Road is (as yet) unfinished and un-adopted, and after all the construction traffic in a poor state at present.
Fees and rules: good call. Will ask.
Fibre broadband is on site and running already. Too late for ethernet to each room - I had already asked.
Lights etc - is what they have 'upgraded' so a lot of spotlights, two pendants in one room etc.
Some social housing on on the road we are looking at - 6 were sold to key workers, 6 are Housing Association rentals.
And yes, we would get a snagging company in.
Estate (mis)management companies are a joke, barely a step away from HOA…
A friend of mine is the second owner of a property that has estate management and the public spaces weren’t mowed once in the first year he was there. At one point, the residents were withholding the fees due to lack of action by the management company.
I think it's less of an issue for the last few years, people have cottoned on, but just check it's freehold and not leasehold too.
Have a look at a YouTube channel called Gosport handyman. He does building, DIY, house renovation etc. but has done several videos on new build houses, including his own. He is knowledgeable and looks objectively at the positives and negatives.
One of the obvious upsides is building regs on insulation etc. have got stricter over recent years so a new build is likely to be much cheaper to heat than an older house. Also, all appliances and equipment in it is brand new, under guarantee, up to latest spec etc. So you will be far less likely to be hit by a surprise bill for a new boiler, dishwasher or whatever a year or two after moving in. I'm well aware that some developers cut corners and there are horror stories, but if you research the developer and get a good snagging company in, I think it's a sound move.
We live in a 200 year cottage which is lovely and has many upsides, but it costs a fortune to heat and is a massive maintenance time and money black hole. We will be downsizing soonish and I will definitely be looking a somewhere a lot newer. We may miss the "character" but I'll be enjoying more free time and a healthier bank account!
Check to see of its in the updated flood maps.
Roads might not be adoptable if there is permeable paving. (Normally where the tarmac turns to brick setts)
Check to see if they actually bothered to build the SUDs they said they would.
Both of ours (Barrat in Kirkliston and Muir in Auchterarder) have been good overall, although I say that through gritted teeth as both developers were guilty of some poor quality work and general low grade shoddiness. All I would say is that it is NOT a perfect buying experience, they will have cut corners, you will have to spend more of your own money making them right, but not for a moment to I believe that it is any worse than buying pre-owned. It's a case of knowing what stuff to shout about and what stuff just to suck up and accept, this will spare a lot of pointless angst down the road.
Also, all appliances and equipment in it is brand new, under guarantee, up to latest spec etc. So you will be far less likely to be hit by a surprise bill for a new boiler, dishwasher or whatever a year or two after moving in.
Yes, but pay attention to the appliances being installed, our Zanussi appliances were clearly the cheapest and shoddiest the developer could get away with, the fridge freezer is making a bloody racket after 3 years and is not cost effective to fix, and the cooker has needed repaired twice and both times the repair-person has been surprised by the poor quality (apparently a dated/cheap design). Our kitchen was the biggest source of bugbears, think it was installed by Swann when the site manager wasn't looking from spare bits and pieces they had left over at the end of the job 🙄
We live in a 200 year cottage which is lovely and has many upsides, but it costs a fortune to heat and is a massive maintenance time and money black hole.
Ditto. I do look longingly at new builds at times, whilst thinking "you lucky ba$tard$..."
Does is come fully kitted with air source heat pump and PV panels etc? Underfloor heating? All stuff I'd love in our old cold money pity (that I love in may other ways). However, we knew people moving into a 'exec' new build with all of the above and the remedial work required on the heating setup to make it work in a way that was vaguely efficient ran nearly to 4 figures and lots of conflict with the developers about if they were responsible or if what they were doing was an 'upgrade'. My only concern is some of these mid sized developer firms are employing people who have not kept up to speed with this newer tech like specialist firms have and are 'fitting it' to meet regs etc but not doing it in a way to best advantage the consumer long term - not because they are cutting corners, they just don't really know what they are doing. This was 4 years ago though - maybe the information/education/understanding across the sector has improved since then.
We had three succesive new builds in the same village, and now live in a renovated Victorian house. I'd take the new build quality every time! Our first was built by a small local company, second was the same company taken over by a bigger one,as was the third. Quality went down and fittings were not as good, nor was the quality of snag correcting. But the company was decent (David Wilson Homes).
Don't be afriad to raise snags, all new houses will have them. Check the fittings are what you've paid for and they have delivered what was on the specification. Check obvious things like doors closing, although expect the floors to be level (a now celebrated case). Worst we had was our neighbours triple garages had to be rebuilt because there was not enough cement in the mortar and the walls had to be replaced (whilst the roof was held in place). We had little to complain about to be honest and all three houses are still standing and in great shape. A bodged renovation of an old house on the cheap by a previous owner is a much worse proposition!
My other tip is every trip to B&Q is £200. All those curtain rails, blinds and bits... It gets a little wearisome the third house around!
Aside from build quality, if there has been loads of new houses built recently in the area, might be worth checking if they have actually bothering building any of the new doctors surgeries, schools etc, that no doubt will have been promised, but seem to never appear. That's the major issue with new builds round my way.
RE floods and drainage: all good. SUDS built. Drains in. 77m above sea level. Flood maps show nothing significant and on a sloping site (house 2m higher than a *tiny* stream with an underground connection betwixt to SUDS in there.
Road: they are due to be paved, so perhaps will be unadopted?
Sadly gas boiler, but it does have 3kw solar and can be adapted to battery in future. Car charger. Heating system is rads, but better than our current microbore and all rads are easily bumped up in size when we do fit ASHP when the boiler dies.....
The appliances are the upgraded pack - still not the best we would choose, but again as they die can be replaced.
Agree that we have looked at second hand houses the last year or so, and all come with real issues and significant costs. I have paid for too many new roofs and partial rewires already...
4 years into our new build and very happy. After 25 years in a 1960s house where we did everything ourselves (kitchen, bathroom, crawling in a tiny space insulating underneath etc) I thought we'd struggle to adapt. But not so - it has been fine.
Yes there was some shoddy finishing and a chunk of plumbing errors, but we saw it go up from the foundations so have a good idea what is where and that the basics were done right.
If you can get a visit at first fix then do so and photo / video everywhere so you know where the pipes and wires are (and you can also see the insulation and cavity closers have been done right around the windows).
The biggest revelation has been the insulation. Huge chunk of foam in the floor slab and good overlap with it and the celotex in the walls so minimal thermal break (which also have a good air gap celotex to the outer wall so no moisture can track through). Heat pump also great and would never go back to a gas boiler. Shame it didn't come with car charger and solar panels.
Our road was done fairly quickly but not adopted for a number of years. Big audit to see everything to plan before adoption so some people had to undo modifications e.g. paved or planted on roadside where it should have been turf. Once adopted and developer moved on, can't imagine anyone will enforce the caveats. Most only ran for 5 years and think it was to stop people being dicks whilst the developer was still selling houses.
And if dot and dab plasterboard on masonry outer walls, invest in some boxes of Corefix for super strong attachment of curtain poles with loads going into the masonry not crappy plasterboard fixings.
Just a note that when we were looking a couple of years ago all the new build developers we spoke to INSISTED that we were getting a good deal and if we didn't sign IMMEDIATELY we'd find the price had gone up in a months time or we'd lose out on the 'upgrades'. Of course this was a huge heap of bollocks and the houses were still on the market at the same or lower prices after we'd moved on and found the house we really wanted.
Get your solicitor to arrange to hold back 5k or 5% etc so that they compete the snagging list within 12 months
There will be problems, some small, some bigger
They will very rarely drop the price because that's whats ends on Land registry and impacts what they can sell future developments for. They will negotiate on including some extras.
Sister moved into a Redrow new build in South Wales 2 years ago and it's been fine. Professional snagging company picked up some stuff which got fixed, other stuff thats just poor tolerances. It's warm and airtight but theres stuff that annoys me as builders go for cheapest possible solution and are hard/expensive to change later - nothing but a single pendant light in each room being the main one. Internal doors are 'weightless'.
Stuff that if you were commissioning the build yourself you'd do it better.
Just a note that when we were looking a couple of years ago all the new build developers we spoke to INSISTED that we were getting a good deal and if we didn't sign IMMEDIATELY we'd find the price had gone up in a months time or we'd lose out on the 'upgrades'. Of course this was a huge heap of bollocks and the houses were still on the market at the same or lower prices after we'd moved on and found the house we really wanted.
Not the case here. If anything, they are asking us to jump through hoops before a formal sign up. We have to have an offer on our house first, we have had interview with financial advisor this morning to check we can afford it, they want us to sit down with site manager and sales person to go through spec and more before they will consider us making a reservation.
Would you get to keep 5% or a big lump sum if you were buying a new car or having a wedding organised just incase some folk didn't enjoy the experience
I think some on here maybe think it's the Medina in Marrakech and they want you to haggle. If almost all the houses are sold does that not tell you they've shifted them on no problem
Dot n dab is never used in Scotland as it's all timber frame
Dot n dab sound like two old spinsters heading off to the bingo
We bought ours in 2012.
The good:
- It's very well insulated and very reasonable to heat and keep warm.
- The site agent was sound, so any snags were dealt with quickly.
- The saleswoman offered us fitted wardrobes in the main bedroom without us even asking for any freebies (the house was fairly well along in the build, so things like floor coverings and the kitchen had already been selected by the developer). I doubt that cost them much in the grand scheme of things.
- No delays to completion.
- Power and lightning was installed in the garage as standard. Yay.
The not so good:
- The road outside is still not adopted. Neither the council or developer seem in any rush. If there's an issue (see below), then neither want to take responsibility.
- The drains in the road were poorly laid and have needed remedying twice.
- We were mislead about whether the road would eventually be opened up or remain no-through. However, I take responsibility for not double checking the planning permission more closely myself. Lesson - follow up any statements made on site with an email to confirm.
- Nationally, one of the subbies was found to have not installed fire protection in all the walls they were supposed to. The estate was reviewed and houses remedied where necessary.
- The estate management company have to be hounded to do anything other than the bare minimum in their management agreement.
- Judging by posts on the local FB group (arrgh) not many people who bought either new or as a re-sale have read the small print about how the annual price rise for the estate management fee is calculated. I'd ask for written summary of this so that you're clear.
- The concrete floor in both kitchen and living room weren't completely level, so the lino/ carpet never laid completely flat. Remedied with some self-levelling compound when new coverings were laid. (The original carpets were cheap shite and didn't wear well).
- The ducting from the ceiling extractor fan in the ensuite wasn't actually connected to the roof vent. So warm moist air was venting into the loft.
Will there be any houses/ back gardens backing onto, or even sideways on, to 'your' back garden? You can't predict how your new neighbours are going to behave, but you can guesstimate how TV noise (for example) is going to emanate out and bounce around. Or maybe this doesn't bother you.
We were told not to be in a hurry to paint walls. Apparently the paint used by the developer allowed the house to dry out and breathe.
I'm sure there's more, but that's what pops into my head.
Good luck.
I have only bought 2 houses in my life, both new builds. Both times we were in early on the scheme so snagging was dealt with quickly and easily, and there was snagging. It was just a case of talking to the site manager and they sent someone round as the trades were all on site on other builds. If you are 77/80 and the developer has packed up then snagging may be trickier to resolve.
The drains in the road were poorly laid and have needed remedying twice.
We had this, but in Scotland at least it seems you can report drainage issues to Scottish Water and they'll rectify quickly. I was worried that we would somehow end up liable for costs (especially since the new mum next door is clearly flushing multiple wet wipes down the bog on a daily basis 😩 ).
The ducting from the ceiling extractor fan in the ensuite wasn't actually connected to the roof vent. So warm moist air was venting into the loft.
This seems to be endemic, our whole development had same issue, I still haven't even got round to checking ours...
Every new build that I’ve been to in hot weather has been extremely hot. They appear to have been built with no thought to present and future weather changes. Most have had to fit air conditioning, which continues the viscous cycle!
*vicious cycle!
We are in a new build in the highlands. It was expensive and we could have bought a bigger house for the same money but it is warm and has a good liveable layout. We also knew we wouldn’t need to spend anything bringing it up to date as you do with an older house. We have an air source heat pump and a junction box wired in for an electric car charger.
The downsides of a new build are the cheap appliances, we had to replace the fridge as it failed just after the 24 month guarantee period. The fact it will likely be quite a few years before the house increases in value. The only shoddy thing we have found was lots of large stones under the turf in the back garden. The spec calls for a certain depth of topsoil and raking before the turf is laid. They must have just shoved in excavated rubble and laid the turf directly on it with an inch or so of topsoil and they muddled up the drainage connections (foul and waste water drains crossed) but they fixed that and reinstated the driveway pretty quickly.
Houses be houses?
I see many new builds have many >tiny< rooms and a squillion bathrooms compared with old Victorians. And yet some new builds have few <huge> rooms with lots of glass and light. And a squillion bathrooms.
unless you are an architect/builder with unlimited funds any house will be a compromise. For example, buying a Victorian house, some things like double-fronted and big rooms with high ceilings will work. Others like no in-wall conduits, a couple of bathrooms, and no insulation will frustrate.
similarly, a new build with just in spec plasterboard walls and push fit plumbing might work AOK. Or, like a relative’s, it might be a bit fragile and puke the heating and water onto the ground floor in the first winter. NP, the insurers and builders will sort you out.
If I were buying in the same position as we were ~20 years ago I expect we’d be renting so buying sounds like a good deal whatever the build date.
Bought a new build last year with my GF, and I think we were probably number 249 out of 250 houses on site... Here's some tips from my own experience to add to those listed above...
Snagging... This was my single biggest problem, and caused me quite a lot of grief. The house had inevitably been delayed, but as we were so far at the end of their plan, they'd moved all their best tradies off site to another plot, and had to get a load of sub contractors in to do the job. I had an absolute nightmare when we went in to do our snagging viewing 3 weeks before moving in day. I had a list of stuff that was really quite unacceptable, and ended up firing off a particularly sharp email to customer services and the area manager of the company we were buying from... 2 working days later, I had a call from the area manager, apologising profusely, and saying he was now project managing the build himself until completion, and that I should come and see him on site later that week and he would show me what they were doing to rectify all the problems I had found... True to his word, pretty much everything was resolved before we moved in, and the couple of tiny issues that weren't were rectified soon after we moved in anyway... But I had to be REALLY pushy to get the level of service and quality of product that I was paying for, which I absolutely hadn't expected...
Don't be afraid to get quotes elsewhere for things... Carpets/flooring in particular. The company we were buying off were quite keen for us to do a deal on a full flooring setup with them, and after we'd made our choices with them and they'd applied what looked like a healthy amount of discount to the price, I was still able to save 25% more again by going to a reputable independent and choosing from their range of products (actually got better quality carpets for that price too!), the only snag being we had to move in with no flooring... But for the amount of money we saved, it was a minor inconvenience for 2 days which was nothing...
Expect delays... I mistakenly believed because we were buying right at the end of the build (some people had been living on the estate for 5yrs already when we moved in!) that everything would be sorted out in a timely fashion... Which couldn't have been further from the truth! We were told we'd be moving in mid to late August... In the end, the people buying our house ended up putting a clause in that if everything wasn't completed by the end of October, then they would be pulling out. We had to kick the build company up the arse repeatedly just to be able to move in on the 31st October!!! It was a stressful period for sure...
Not all house builders are the same... We were buying off arguably one of the most reputable ones. I spoke to friends who have site managed for new builds in the past, who gave me all sorts of horrid stories of stuff that builders will try to get away with, but some worse than others. I've seen some horrendous examples of poor quality work in other people's new builds in the past, I wasn't prepared to let that go with ours... So be especially diligent with your snagging!
Don't "complete" until you are ready to... Our builder was in a hurry to complete to get the money in for the end of their financial year would you believe! Had they managed to complete the house when they initially said they would, then that might have happened. Because it didn't, we completed far later on... But not because of their lack of trying!
Expect the ground to be full of rubble/stones... They wanted to charge us £1500 to turf our back lawn (all 60 square metres of it) so I told them where to go. I'm fortunate that I did, because the turf would never have properly taken to the soil anyway (such as it hasn't on the small border at the front of the house where they were obliged to lay it) because it's such a heavy clay consistency and was full of stones and bits of brick. Once spring came and the soil was a bit drier, I bought a cheap tiller and turned over the top 9-10 inches of soil all over the garden and must have removed about a tonne of rubble and stones from the soil. To counter this, I also put about a ton of soil improver back into the soil and turned it in again with the tiller, before seeding... On a pure cost basis, I spent about £250 on the tiller/soil improver/grass seed and probably spent 40 man hours all told to do it. But the bigger point for me is that if we had just paid for the turf and rolled it into the mortgage, our lawn would mostly be dead right now anyway because the soil wouldn't have been anywhere near up to the job!
All that said, there are a great many upsides to buying new, especially if it's been well designed and laid out (such as ours is)... We're in a 4 bed detached built in 2024 and our gas/electric bill combined is 40% cheaper every month than it was in our previous 3 bed semi built in 1969!
